Is Duke McGhee a dirty player?

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It would be tough to call him dirty, football is a physical game and knocking a guy on his butt is a big part of it. Can't fault him for going hard at folks. But at some point you have to question the coaching when it becomes a pattern. The Gophers have had seven targeting calls on them this season, second most in the country, and that is not a good look. When you watch the Gophers play it looks like a lot of guys are running around out there trying to knock guys heads off. 15 years ago this would have been universally lauded as how football is supposed to be played but today it looks dangerous and detrimental to all involved. Thats not the way myself or many others may want it to be but it is what it is. If Claeys doesn't adjust the calls are just going to keep coming and labels like 'dirty' and 'cheap shot' will only increase in volume.
 


A dirty player is someone who is out to intentionally hurt someone. I don't see that in McGhee. He plays hard, he hits hard, but I don't think he's looking to hurt anyone.
 




Lake Geneva Badger said:
You'll know who he is after Saturday, trust me.
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I do realize we are not in a position to trash talk since the Badgers have beat the Gophers quite a few times in a row, but the strength of this defense is the secondary. I googled your Jazz, and he is a wide receiver. I think if the Badgers win it will be because the Gophers cannot stop the run.
 

Is it the scheme that we play? A while back I heard Sean Salisbury (I think) talking about defensive schemes that NFL teams play. According to him some packages put the safety running head on with some pass routes and there is no way to tackle the guy but head-on. Most teams, he said, have went away from that strategy. Is that our issue?
 

The " Dukester" is not a dirty player. He is just very aggressive. I hope when he comes back in the second half my guess "Jizz" Peavey and the rest of the Badger receivers will be hearing footsteps.
 



Some Day...Is Coming! said:
It was Winfield's contact that put Carr's head on a path toward McGee's. Without that contact McGee is NOT on a path of helmet to helmet. Barrieiro is an idiot.


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This - I don't know how you could expect Duke to adjust that quickly when Winfield's hit changed the path of the receiver. It was a penalty, but one that could not have been avoided.
 

Dirty isn't the right term and it's not isolated to McGhee. Since Kill came to town, our defensive guys have been hitting a lot upstairs. That's going to result in more targeting calls whether or not it's warranted. I think the same thing happened with Limegrover and chop-block calls. We seemed to get at least one a game with the Kill/Limegrover tandem (and Kill threw a headset flying sh*t-fit every time it was called). Funny how that pretty much disappeared when Miller took over (of course, an argument can be made that you can't be called for a chop-block if you don't block anyone). We're just an aggressive team that is aggressive bordering on stupid sometimes.
 

Lake Geneva Badger said:
You'll know who he is after Saturday, trust me.
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How many jet sweeps should we expect? Serious question. I think it was vs Nebraska and you guys kept hitting them with the same sweep again, and again, and again. They never adjusted for it. Easy money.
 

50PoundHead said:
Dirty isn't the right term and it's not isolated to McGhee. Since Kill came to town, our defensive guys have been hitting a lot upstairs. That's going to result in more targeting calls whether or not it's warranted. I think the same thing happened with Limegrover and chop-block calls. We seemed to get at least one a game with the Kill/Limegrover tandem (and Kill through a headset flying sh*t-fit every time it was called). Funny how that pretty much disappeared when Miller took over (of course, an argument can be made that you can't be called for a chop-block if you don't block anyone). We're just an aggressive team that is aggressive bordering on stupid sometimes.
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Good points. During the game we were talking about how many NW players were down on the field after the play. It will be interesting to see how they go about dialing back that aggression, or how much they even try to.
 



These targeting calls are happening often enough to conclude that it's either being coached or how not to do it isn't being coached despite the harm it does via missing players. The latter is more likely, but I'm not sure it says anything good about the coaches.
 

If the penalty didn't carry an ejection, nobody would ask this question. If it was just 15 yards and a first down, it isn't even a conversation. Do we remember how many personal fouls and on whom have been called against the Vikings this year?
But everyone knows about the 7 targeting calls.


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Again, we can argue all day long about whether it's a good rule, or should be changed.

But, for right now, the Gophers are the poster child in the B1G for targeting. You can bet that every officiating crew that works a Gopher game is aware of the previous calls, and they are watching for it. The BTN had a highlight reel of previous Gopher targeting penalties racked up and ready to run on Saturday, and surprise, they got a chance to use it.

So, until the rule is changed, it's on the coaches and players to modify their technique to try and avoid penalties. Or, keep doing what they're doing and keep getting guys kicked out of games.

And now a question - if a Gopher player gets a targeting penalty in the 2nd half vs. Wisconsin, does it carry over to the 1st half of the Bowl Game? I would think it would.
 

ruppertflywheel said:
The " Dukester" is not a dirty player. He is just very aggressive. I hope when he comes back in the second half my guess "Jizz" Peavey and the rest of the Badger receivers will be hearing footsteps.
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With all the persistent ignorance regarding the targeting rule, I shouldn't be surprised that Ruppert of all people would get it wrong, but let me clear something up. Because the foul occurred in the 2nd half, McGhee is out next week. For the entire game.
 

GhostofBronko said:
With all the persistent ignorance regarding the targeting rule, I shouldn't be surprised that Ruppert of all people would get it wrong, but let me clear something up. Because the foul occurred in the 2nd half, McGhee is out next week. For the entire game.
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No, he isn't. If you want to wag your finger at somebody, make sure you're right next time.
 

Re: jet sweeps - Wisconsin's first play from scrimmage the last two weeks was the jet sweep. They use it a couple times each game. They threw in a wrinkle a couple weeks ago with more of a reverse look (no pre-snap motion) and scored on it.

Re: targeting in the second half. Cichy got a targeting call against the Gophers last year in the 2nd half and did have to sit out the first half of the bowl game against USC
 

GhostofBronko said:
With all the persistent ignorance regarding the targeting rule, I shouldn't be surprised that Ruppert of all people would get it wrong, but let me clear something up. Because the foul occurred in the 2nd half, McGhee is out next week. For the entire game.
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Ha! Nice work, Badger troll! Lecturing people about "persistent ignorance" when you yourself are ignorant of the rule. What a dumbass.
 

Lake Geneva Badger said:
You'll know who he is after Saturday, trust me.
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I never trust anyone from anyone from that side of the border. Speaking of dirty, I can't speak for the UW players but the general population of over there is filthy. They reek of .....
 

GhostofBronko said:
With all the persistent ignorance regarding the targeting rule, I shouldn't be surprised that Ruppert of all people would get it wrong, but let me clear something up. Because the foul occurred in the 2nd half, McGhee is out next week. For the entire game.
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This is a classic GH Post. Thanks GoB.


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Re. Duke: No. Not dirty. But modifications must be made, or else this bad rap (IMO) will carry over into next year with the zebras. I subscribe to SON's notion: they are looking for a reason to flag us for targeting, at this point.

Anyone else see our Steven Richardson get absolutely SPEARED on the ground, late, after his fumble recovery? No flag. No discussion by the TV guys. NW guy hit him with the crown of the helmet, right to the head of Richardson. Nothing. Should have been an ejection, for God's sake! Sick of the double standard, this season.
 

formerlybis said:
Re: jet sweeps - Wisconsin's first play from scrimmage the last two weeks was the jet sweep. They use it a couple times each game. They threw in a wrinkle a couple weeks ago with more of a reverse look (no pre-snap motion) and scored on it.

Re: targeting in the second half. Cichy got a targeting call against the Gophers last year in the 2nd half and did have to sit out the first half of the bowl game against USC
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Yep, and was it DJ Jazzy Jeff taking it or someone else? I was absolutely amazed when they kept running it (was it vs Nebraska or OSU?) and they were getting huge gains all game. Coaches had to be laughing after the game (maybe not after the OSU game).

Somebody forward this to Sawvel:

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/forum...6/10/75473/anatomy-of-the-wisconsin-jet-sweep
 

mkAz said:
A dirty player is someone who is out to intentionally hurt someone. I don't see that in McGhee. He plays hard, he hits hard, but I don't think he's looking to hurt anyone.
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Agree, don't think he is trying to hurt the guy or is a dirty player, but he has to learn how to lower his target to avoid getting hit with a call like that.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Again, we can argue all day long about whether it's a good rule, or should be changed.

But, for right now, the Gophers are the poster child in the B1G for targeting. You can bet that every officiating crew that works a Gopher game is aware of the previous calls, and they are watching for it. The BTN had a highlight reel of previous Gopher targeting penalties racked up and ready to run on Saturday, and surprise, they got a chance to use it.

So, until the rule is changed, it's on the coaches and players to modify their technique to try and avoid penalties. Or, keep doing what they're doing and keep getting guys kicked out of games.

And now a question - if a Gopher player gets a targeting penalty in the 2nd half vs. Wisconsin, does it carry over to the 1st half of the Bowl Game? I would think it would.
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Good points on the rule as it stands. As for carry over of a targeting call I would assume if somebody gets one in the second half against Wisconsin that it would carry over to the bowl game since it is an NCAA rule.
 

Targeting is a terrible name for the foul. It should be called illegal contact. The rule is essentially saying it is 100% the defensive players responsibility to avoid contact with the offensive players head. Which is fine, but stop calling it targeting and insinuating that when it happens it's dirty.


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Pompous Elitist said:
I think he needs to work on his tackling form but he didn't leave his feet, led with his shoulder, and had his head up on contact. Could have been lower.

Let's be real for the holier than thous: if the ncaa and officials want to get serious about "targeting" start calling it. Start calling it when Mitch gets drilled in the head going out of bounds vs Iowa. Start calling it when the PSU kicker spears kick returners. Start calling it when Alabama players drill people in the head. Otherwise STFU about trying to protect players after the Rallis and Celestin debacles this season.
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Agree, and then loosen up the pass interference calling.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Yep, and was it DJ Jazzy Jeff taking it or someone else? I was absolutely amazed when they kept running it (was it vs Nebraska or OSU?) and they were getting huge gains all game. they kept looking for the dive. Coaches had to be laughing after the game (maybe not after the OSU game).

Somebody forward this to Sawvel:

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/forum...6/10/75473/anatomy-of-the-wisconsin-jet-sweep
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The jet sweep against Nebraska in the B1GCCG a few years ago (Bielema was still coach) is what you're probably remembering - Melvin Gordon was the 3rd string RB on that team and had over 200 yards on 9 carries, mostly on the jet sweep.

This year, they've only really used it a couple times a game (though the fake jet sweep is a staple), and several different players have carried it. Peavy does it the most, and he did score against Northwestern on the reverse. If you see Clement split wide, he's gotten the handoff on the jet sweep literally every time.
 

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