Is Duke McGhee a dirty player?

Breakin' The Plane

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That's Barreiro's assertion, going so far as to say making him sit for one game isn't nearly enough. I can see his point. A couple of hits that essentially knocked the other team's best WR out of the game sure don't look good.
In watching yesterday's play back several times, it's most certainly targeting by the letter of the law. It's such a split second play, but it almost looked like Carr's helmet made contact with Duke first, not vice versa. You could see that he was woozy after the hit. Winfield essentially pushed Carr into Duke's path. Do you try and teach DBs to only make ankle tackles from now on?
 


MNGoldenGophers1

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That was one of those who targeted who situations. Unfortunately the game moves fast and things like that will happen.
 


givetheballtodarrell

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Bang, bang play but have to stop it. It's ok to have D backs who want to mix it up but it needs to change. Refs have to be looking for it with us now. With our depth web and afford the disqualifications. Don't want to be known as 'Targeting- U'
 



highwayman

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Since targeting is such a poorly called foul, no conclusion can be made. The NW player lowered his head, and McGhee did NOT hit him with the crown of the helmet. Face mask to face mask should not be a foul.

The call against Rallis was ridiculous.

A college ref friend of mine says that the NCAA is trying to quantify a "what is in the player's heart" foul.

Targeting is a problem when a defensive player intentionally lowers his head or hits a player on the ground, not when he is asked to defy the laws of physics.

Watch the NFL closely. On almost every play there is a late hit of some kind, and they fully allow defensive players to hit guys that are already down. That's dirty.
 

bottlebass

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He is not dirty. He has not tried to target on his penalties, just unfortunate in how the hits occurred. This is just football and throwing the ball over the middle. If they want to stop plays like this then stop letting teams throw the ball over the middle.
 

short ornery norwegian

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Until they change the rule, the Gophers have two choices:
1. tackle lower
2. keep getting guys kicked out of games.

The rule is the rule. The officials have made it crystal-clear that any contact helmet-to-helmet is going to be called. Maybe they'll change the rule in the future. Maybe I'll win the lottery.

So - the onus is on the players and coaches - either tackle lower, or give up 15 yards and get a key player kicked out of the game. Or, do nothing and keep complaining. Your choice.

And- if a key Gopher player was injured on a targeting play, the conversation on this board would be 100% different. If it hurts the Gophers, its a bad rule. If if helps the Gophers, its a good rule. Doesn't work that way in real life.
 



everybody knows my name

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On admittedly limited evidence, I have come to the same conclusion - McGhee might be a dirty player.

There's no question in my mind that both targeting calls on him have been justified - yesterday's especially. The receiver did not lower himself, and the hit was not unavoidable.
 

Some Day...Is Coming!

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It was Winfield's contact that put Carr's head on a path toward McGee's. Without that contact McGee is NOT on a path of helmet to helmet. Barrieiro is an idiot.


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For his own sake, I hope he doesn't attempt to take out Jazz Peavy in the 2nd half at Camp Randall.
 

Vandy

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For his own sake, I hope he doesn't attempt to take out Jazz Peavy in the 2nd half at Camp Randall.

Why don't you move our comment to a Badger board and go back to your pre Packer game beer guzzling?
 




Vandy

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Are you kidding me? It's 11 o'clock in the morning and the Packers don't play until 7:30!

OK, you've got one hour to finish brunch! But it is crazy to assume that McGhee is hitting helmet to helmet intentionally and seeking ejection....
 


Pompous Elitist

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I think he needs to work on his tackling form but he didn't leave his feet, led with his shoulder, and had his head up on contact. Could have been lower.

Let's be real for the holier than thous: if the ncaa and officials want to get serious about "targeting" start calling it. Start calling it when Mitch gets drilled in the head going out of bounds vs Iowa. Start calling it when the PSU kicker spears kick returners. Start calling it when Alabama players drill people in the head. Otherwise STFU about trying to protect players after the Rallis and Celestin debacles this season.
 

GopherinPhilly

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McGee does need to improve tackling as he likes to hit not necessarily tackle. That said, both his targeting calls were head up...meaning he didn't lower his head or launch into a player...they were just bang bang coming over the middle and contact was made.

That is always going to be a tough play since safeties and linebackers are taught from day 1 to try and dislodge that ball on throws over the middle.

He is young and the coaches will work with him...but those plays are always going to happen.

I suspect that the NCAA is going to get tougher not weaker on the penalty. Like first one is half a game, second time in a season is a full game, etc.

I also hope they clarify that targeting is lowering the head and that incidental head contact is just a 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct that a second one in a game gets you disqualified for the remainder of the game. Not intent but simply face mask to face mask or incidental helmet contact due to offensive player lower/raising level.
 



BarnBurner

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I think he needs to work on his tackling form but he didn't leave his feet, led with his shoulder, and had his head up on contact. Could have been lower.

Let's be real for the holier than thous: if the ncaa and officials want to get serious about "targeting" start calling it. Start calling it when Mitch gets drilled in the head going out of bounds vs Iowa. Start calling it when the PSU kicker spears kick returners. Start calling it when Alabama players drill people in the head. Otherwise STFU about trying to protect players after the Rallis and Celestin debacles this season.

Perfectly stated. I watched the Alabama game you mention. No call. No call on Mitch. Is consistency so difficult?
 

Ski U Master

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Until we harness the ability to change the laws of physics or outlaw deep crossers, corner routes, etc I'd disagree
Eventually defenders will change technique and adjust. Of course then we will probably see a bunch of exploded WR knees and hips as defenders go low.

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Pompous Elitist

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Eventually defenders will change technique and adjust. Of course then we will probably see a bunch of exploded WR knees and hips as defenders go low.

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I don't think what you're describing is physically possible in about 1/3 to 1/2 of these calls. Sorry. They can continue to eject them if it keeps the lawyers off their backs (it won't) but they need to start looking at the completely unnecessary headhunting going on all over the league. Really pretty senseless and misdirected.
 

STPGopher

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Until they change the rule, the Gophers have two choices:
1. tackle lower
2. keep getting guys kicked out of games.

The rule is the rule. The officials have made it crystal-clear that any contact helmet-to-helmet is going to be called. Maybe they'll change the rule in the future. Maybe I'll win the lottery.

So - the onus is on the players and coaches - either tackle lower, or give up 15 yards and get a key player kicked out of the game. Or, do nothing and keep complaining. Your choice.

And- if a key Gopher player was injured on a targeting play, the conversation on this board would be 100% different.
If it hurts the Gophers, its a bad rule. If if helps the Gophers, its a good rule. Doesn't work that way in real life.

The is when a Gopher player is targeted, it doesn't get called. Luckily Mitch's brains aren't totally scrambled.

Regarding Barreiro, he is always ripping the Gophers. He likes to stir the pot.
 

highwayman

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Until they change the rule, the Gophers have two choices:
1. tackle lower
2. keep getting guys kicked out of games.

The rule is the rule. The officials have made it crystal-clear that any contact helmet-to-helmet is going to be called. Maybe they'll change the rule in the future. Maybe I'll win the lottery.

So - the onus is on the players and coaches - either tackle lower, or give up 15 yards and get a key player kicked out of the game. Or, do nothing and keep complaining. Your choice.

And- if a key Gopher player was injured on a targeting play, the conversation on this board would be 100% different. If it hurts the Gophers, its a bad rule. If if helps the Gophers, its a good rule. Doesn't work that way in real life.

I'll disagree. The rule isn't the rule. Even with replay, it is incredibly arbitrary, just like it was before. It's still who you are, not how you play. Face mask to face mask shouldn't be a foul.

"No player shall target and make forcible contact against an opponent with the crown (top) of his helmet. This foul requires that there be at least one indicator of targeting (See Note 1 below). When in question, it is a foul.

No player shall target and make forcible contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent (See Note 2 below) with the helmet, forearm, hand, fist, elbow or shoulder. This foul requires that there be at least one indicator of targeting (See Note 1 below). When in question, it is a foul (Rules 2-27-14 and 9-6). (A.R. 9-1-4-I-VI)

Note 1: "Targeting" means that a player takes aim at an opponent for purposes of attacking with forcible contact that goes beyond making a legal tackle or a legal block or playing the ball. Some indicators of targeting include but are not limited to:

Launch—a player leaving his feet to attack an opponent by an upward and forward thrust of the body to make forcible contact in the head or neck area'
A crouch followed by an upward and forward thrust to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area, even though one or both feet are still on the ground.
Leading with helmet, shoulder, forearm, fist, hand or elbow to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area.
Lowering the head before attacking by initiating forcible contact with the crown of the helmet.

Note 2: Defenseless player (Rule 2-27-14):

A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass.
A receiver attempting to catch a forward pass or in position to receive a backward pass, or one who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a ball carrier.
A kicker in the act of or just after kicking a ball, or during the kick or the return.
A kick returner attempting to catch or recover a kick, or one who has completed a catch or recovery and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a ball carrier.
A player on the ground.
A player obviously out of the play.
A player who receives a blind-side block.
A ball carrier already in the grasp of an opponent and whose forward progress has been stopped.
A quarterback any time after a change of possession.
A ball carrier who has obviously given himself up and is sliding feet-first."

Once again, they have to interpret what is in a player's heart. Stupid.
 

Spoofin

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DM8 is not a dirty player. With that said, I have been posting for a few weeks on here that he needs to 'mature' his style of play. He is all about the hit and it has resulted in multiple missed tackles and a couple (correct) targeting calls. I like the edge, but it is limiting his team to some extent. My $0.02.


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WorkingMyTailOff

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McGee does need to improve tackling as he likes to hit not necessarily tackle. That said, both his targeting calls were head up...meaning he didn't lower his head or launch into a player...they were just bang bang coming over the middle and contact was made.

That is always going to be a tough play since safeties and linebackers are taught from day 1 to try and dislodge that ball on throws over the middle.

He is young and the coaches will work with him...but those plays are always going to happen.

I suspect that the NCAA is going to get tougher not weaker on the penalty. Like first one is half a game, second time in a season is a full game, etc.

I also hope they clarify that targeting is lowering the head and that incidental head contact is just a 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct that a second one in a game gets you disqualified for the remainder of the game. Not intent but simply face mask to face mask or incidental helmet contact due to offensive player lower/raising level.

Yeah I agree. He is a hard hitting safety that needs to improve his technique. I don't think he would be flagged for these hits in the NFL but he needs to adjust to the new rule.

Harrison Smith (Vikings Safety) could be classified as a dirty player and Vikings fans love him.
 

minibeaver

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Not dirty, but I think the question is fair. Also, for his own sake, think he needs to work on his tackling because he looked shook up on that play as well.

On another note, I've noticed more trash talking by this defense this year. A CB did it yesterday, as well as others before. I'm all for hitting hard, playing with an edge, but I'm not a fan of the taunting stuff after the play. A couple weeks ago, Elmore trucked a QB (I believe Blough) blocking on a fumble recovery. After the play you could see Elmore helping up Blough and talking to him. That is what I'd like to see more of.
 

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Watch the SEC, you will see DM hits 10 to 15 times in every game WITHOUT targeting calls. As I wrote earlier, the Big Ten office has notified game officials, watch Minnesota for targeting. Hopefully the bowl game will have decent officials.
 




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