Improvement under Kill

I knwo your post wasn't responding to me but I wanted to reply anyhow. I agree with you 100% that recruits shouldn't be judged by rankings alone & that Kill has done an admirable job of finding under-the-radar guys. Still, for all his flaws, Brew recruited some quality players in Michael Cater, Rashede Hageman, Gary Tinsley, Tramaine Brock, Traye Simmons, Jewahn Edwards, Brandon Kirksey, Sam Maresh (injury), Troy Stoudermire, Brock Vereen, Keenan Cooper, Marquies Gray, Brandon Green (injury), Da'Jon McKnight, Jimmy Gjere (Injury), Brooks Michel (Injury), Zac Epping, Josh Campion, Ed & Tommy Olson, et al. I don't care about their star rankings, I'm just saying I don't see a huge talent upgrade in the players Kill's bringing in. I see a guy with a system & a quality coaching staff to properly develop players.

First, I probably should clarify that I have personally lost interest in the whole Brewster/Kill discussion but I just wanted to say that I am comfortable with the basic point of your bolded statement. I do think though that there are some other factors that help to explain why Kill’s recruits do better. First is that Kill has a better understanding of what profile he is looking for in a recruit for his system. Second, he identifies and seeks out recruits that are likely to be better team players and are less likely to quit on his team mates. Third, I suspect that Kill and his staff do a better job of determining the character and the mental makeup of the recruit. Fourth, I also suspect Kill and his staff are better at recognizing those recruits that have a higher upside potential. Fifth, Kill and his staff are better at finding under the radar recruits than Brewster. Sixth, Kill and his staff are probably better organized and focused than Brewster.

Certainly, the differences that I have listed above are subjective but I believe they can make a significant difference, especially if you have a system & a quality coaching staff to properly develop players.
 

I did some numbers crunching regarding the Wacker, Mason, Brewster, Kill evaluation. I did it for the 1st 3 years of their tenure. I came up with this:

Brewster = Wacker
Kill = Mason

I did this by using Big 10 wins (since some on this board think that is all that matters). Remember, this is the 1st 3 years:

Wacker went 6-18
Mason went 8-16
Brewster went 6-18
Kill is now 8-16

If by 8-16 for Kill you mean 6-16 when coaching and 4 wins as head coach.
 


If by 8-16 for Kill you mean 6-16 when coaching and 4 wins as head coach.

Using your metric, he should be 6-15, because he also wasn't coaching for the Michigan loss last year. (This is not an endorsement of GW's point, merely an attempt to show that even using his logic, his numbers are internally inconsistent).
 

Using your metric, he should be 6-15, because he also wasn't coaching for the Michigan loss last year. (This is not an endorsement of GW's point, merely an attempt to show that even using his logic, his numbers are internally inconsistent).

Valid point; I agree we should use 6-15.
 




Overall things are in a much better place then they were under Brewster but Kill has not done anything to outdistance himself from Mason to this point. In order to do that he needs to get the team to contender status which is something Mason could never do. But he had the program stable for the most part and consistently in the middle of the pack which on the surface is where I would say Kill has things at the moment.
Oh yes he has! I haven't seen Kill do the confused "deer in headlights" stare that Mason used to do when his team would completely collapse. I think Kill et al out distances Mason in game day adjustments. Finally, there is something missing in this debate of Kill and recruiting... And that is coaching. Kill can coach and therefore can develop players from 2-3 star recruits into 4 star players.... Do that long enough and you will get consistently good results on the field.
 

Yes, we want good results on the field. By all means! We will wait for that as long as we have to wait for that.
 



If by 8-16 for Kill you mean 6-16 when coaching and 4 wins as head coach.

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Yes, we want good results on the field. By all means! We will wait for that as long as we have to wait for that.

Yes, it is all about recruiting as we learned from one T. Brewster, who I am sure now speaks with a fine southern drawl.

Our boy Tim has made yet one more top ten list.

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/college-footballs-10-worst-hires-during-the-bcs-era/

Answers.com ranked the 10 worst hires during the BCS Era, and five former SEC coaches made the cut:
1.Ron Zook (Florida, Illinois)
2.Gene Chizik (Iowa State, Auburn)
3.Tim Brewster (Minnesota)
4.Lane Kiffin (Tennessee, USC)
5.Derek Dooley (Tennessee)
6.Charlie Weis (Notre Dame, Kansas)
7.Mike Stoops (Arizona)
8.John L. Smith (Michigan State, Arkansas)
9.Bill Callahan (Nebraska)
10.Dan
 

Yes, it is all about recruiting as we learned from one T. Brewster, who I am sure now speaks with a fine southern drawl.

Our boy Tim has made yet one more top ten list.

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/college-footballs-10-worst-hires-during-the-bcs-era/

Answers.com ranked the 10 worst hires during the BCS Era, and five former SEC coaches made the cut:
1.Ron Zook (Florida, Illinois)
2.Gene Chizik (Iowa State, Auburn)
3.Tim Brewster (Minnesota)
4.Lane Kiffin (Tennessee, USC)
5.Derek Dooley (Tennessee)
6.Charlie Weis (Notre Dame, Kansas)
7.Mike Stoops (Arizona)
8.John L. Smith (Michigan State, Arkansas)
9.Bill Callahan (Nebraska)
10.Dan

That is quite the list. It was a sad day when that hire was made. The U of M football program is still paying the price for such a horrible hire.
 

Yes, it is all about recruiting as we learned from one T. Brewster, who I am sure now speaks with a fine southern drawl.

Our boy Tim has made yet one more top ten list.

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/college-footballs-10-worst-hires-during-the-bcs-era/

Answers.com ranked the 10 worst hires during the BCS Era, and five former SEC coaches made the cut:
1.Ron Zook (Florida, Illinois)
2.Gene Chizik (Iowa State, Auburn)
3.Tim Brewster (Minnesota)
4.Lane Kiffin (Tennessee, USC)
5.Derek Dooley (Tennessee)
6.Charlie Weis (Notre Dame, Kansas)
7.Mike Stoops (Arizona)
8.John L. Smith (Michigan State, Arkansas)
9.Bill Callahan (Nebraska)
10.Dan

Yup, I know when I am looking for the fount of all knowledge, I go to Answers.com!!

Gene Chizik #2? He won a national title at Auburn! What a garbage list.
 



Yup, I know when I am looking for the fount of all knowledge, I go to Answers.com!!

Gene Chizik #2? He won a national title at Auburn! What a garbage list.

Take the first two off the list (Zook took Illinois to the Rose Bowl, Chizik won a National Title) and it's a great list. Brewster deserves to be number 1 on that list no doubt. After the first two names that list is spot on.
 

Brewster deserves to be number 1 on that list no doubt.

Not even close. Some examples:

Jon Embree 4-21
Kevin Steele 9-36
Ted Roof 6-45
Turner Gill 5-19

These guys (and many more) had difficulty winning more than one game a season, let alone coaching their school to multiple bowl games. The exaggerated Brewster hatred here is myopic and comical.
 

Not even close. Some examples:

Jon Embree 4-21
Kevin Steele 9-36
Ted Roof 6-45
Turner Gill 5-19

These guys (and many more) had difficulty winning more than one game a season, let alone coaching their school to multiple bowl games. The exaggerated Brewster hatred here is myopic and comical.

A few more:

Greg Robinson 10-37
Carl Franks 7-45
Paul Wulff 9-40
Tom Holmoe 9-31
Ed Orgeron 10-25
Walt Harris 6-17
Buddy Teeves 10-23
Ty Willingham (Wash tenure) 11-37

Special recognition to George O'Leary, Mike Price, and Mike Haywood, who were all fired before even coaching a game.
 

A few more:

Greg Robinson 10-37
Carl Franks 7-45
Paul Wulff 9-40
Tom Holmoe 9-31
Ed Orgeron 10-25
Walt Harris 6-17
Buddy Teeves 10-23
Ty Willingham (Wash tenure) 11-37

Special recognition to George O'Leary, Mike Price, and Mike Haywood, who were all fired before even coaching a game.

Good list. I'd say Ron Prince deserves some consideration as well.
 




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