If his name wasn't "Tubby Smith" would your opinion change?

[Gopher Warrior]

The reality is that, more likely than not, Tubby won't get Minnesota to the tournament this year or next year and through six years at the U will not have had a team with a winning conference record. Further, years 4 through 6 will have been non-tourney years.

I can understand any team's fans being disappointed with that result no matter who the team is or who is coaching them.

 

[Gopher in Texas]

The reality is that, more likely than not, Tubby won't get Minnesota to the tournament this year or next year and through six years at the U will not have had a team with a winning conference record. Further, years 4 through 6 will have been non-tourney years.

I can understand any team's fans being disappointed with that result no matter who the team is or who is coaching them.

I still think the Gophers have a chance to get to the tournament this year.

I would be interested in stealing Buzz from Marquette. Would he be interested?

 

[Gopher Warrior]

I still think the Gophers have a chance to get to the tournament this year.
I would be interested in stealing Buzz from Marquette. Would he be interested?

They do have a chance to get to the tournament this year.. it's just more likely than not that they won't.

Buzz.. no chance. He's got a nice setup in Milwaukee, but if he were to go anywhere it would be to somewhere in your state. (Crappy game today though... ugh. I'm going to the MU @ DePaul game Monday... can hardly wait.)

 

[howieramone]

The reality is that, more likely than not, Tubby won't get Minnesota to the tournament this year or next year and through six years at the U will not have had a team with a winning conference record. Further, years 4 through 6 will have been non-tourney years.

I can understand any team's fans being disappointed with that result no matter who the team is or who is coaching them.

The reality is the sophomore class to be will go to the dance the next 3 years. The reality is Tubby has 2 more years on his contact and the U doesn't have the money to buy him out even if so inclined. The reality is those in power realize if Nolen and the Beast hadn't gotten hurt we would have made the dance both years. The reality is those in power don't take guidance and direction from posters on an anonymous board.

 

[Gopher Warrior]

The reality is the sophomore class to be will go to the dance the next 3 years. The reality is Tubby has 2 more years on his contact and the U doesn't have the money to buy him out even if so inclined. The reality is those in power realize if Nolen and the Beast hadn't gotten hurt we would have made the dance both years. The reality is those in power don't take guidance and direction from posters on an anonymous board.

Soph's to be going to the tourney in each of the next three years: Unlikely, although the history of the Gophers going to the tournament three years in a row might make it seem like they're due for such a streak.
Money: Coaching contracts are made to be broken. There is always money if needed. (Speaking in general, not opining on what will happen with Coach Smith - I hope he enjoys great success at Minnesota).
Dance last year and this year: Would have had a shot last year, I agree. This year, the Gophers looked like a bubble team that was looking from the outside in. Mbakwe playing would not have guaranteed a tournament berth.

I sincerely believe that most objective people would tell you it's more likely than not that Minnesota won't see the NCAA tournament this year or next. Embrace it and be that much more excited to have done better than people expected if things turn out well... they certainly could.

 

[imthewalrus]

Here is the deal...

That's kinda my thinking as well. Because of who he is, expectations are higher. If we had hired a solid mid-major guy that the average fan had never heard of before and had the same results as we are right now, I don't think some would be as critical of him.

Because the administration paid Tubby over 2 million a year and bragged all over the place about their "Tubby-like-hire..." the bar was raised "sky high..." Heck, they were going to be opening up a brand new 275 million plus football stadium and they were willing to pay their hoops coach more than twice as much as their football coach who would be in charge of the product they were selling to the people who they were gouging for revenue for the new stadium. Talk about incompetnet administrators!!!!!

And all we have to compare Tubby to any other former coaches to is his Big Ten wins vs his big Ten losses. The same is true of the football coach. But...the foolish administrators made such a BIG deal about the "Tubby-like-hire..." hype they tried to sell.

Now, some people are talking about "Flip." The thing about "Flip.." is the fact that "...Flip..." has flopped so many times both with his pro gigs as well as his position about EVER even considering becoming a Gopher Hoops Coach.

The administrators built the mess they have on their hands. Anything that they do will be the wrong thing. The sad fact is that the administrators at the University of Minnesota have continued to MUCK everything up in the Athletic Department with the REVENUE sports. '
'
The BIGGEST errors have been made with the Football Program and with the Men's Hoops Program. The administrators have NOT been adequate or Big Ten level in the TOP TWO revenue sports.

With the kind of administrators that the U of M has even a "Tubby-Like-Hire.." doesn't turn out to be a very "Tubby-Like-Hire..."

Or maybe it's just hard as hell to win big with the revenue sports at the U of M in this professional sports oriented Twin Town Metro Area.

You people crucified Dan Monson who was your "mid-major" who had to suffer all of the consequences and from all the fall-out of the haskin's scandal. So, Gophers In Iowa...I guess it really doesn't matter which kind of coach we have...we crucify ALL coaches of the revenue sports here. That's the deal...

; 0 )

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

I know I said this on another thread, but given that we are currently sitting in the tournament according to most bracketologists, I take issue with saying that a tournament birth is not likely this year.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

The reality is the sophomore class to be will go to the dance the next 3 years. The reality is Tubby has 2 more years on his contact and the U doesn't have the money to buy him out even if so inclined. The reality is those in power realize if Nolen and the Beast hadn't gotten hurt we would have made the dance both years. The reality is those in power don't take guidance and direction from posters on an anonymous board.

ding-ding-ding, we have a winner.

 

[notagopherfan]

I think you can look around the country over the last decade and find several up and comers who have failed to launch a middle level bcs school like yours.. Arkansas.. though not mid level but were reduced to such.. Georgia hasn't been able to consistently make the ncaa since Tubby was there.. Pat Knight at Texas Tech, Iowa, Auburn, St. Johns, Virginia, Georgia Tech, NC State. all these programs probably have better facilities as well.

You people that think it's so easy to win in a BCS conference need to wake up, there's tons more failures then there are success.. I think Tubby has been pretty successful and I think the arrow is pointing up something you couldn't say when he got there.

 

[EG#9]

I think you can look around the country over the last decade and find several up and comers who have failed to launch a middle level bcs school like yours.. Arkansas.. though not mid level but were reduced to such.. Georgia hasn't been able to consistently make the ncaa since Tubby was there.. Pat Knight at Texas Tech, Iowa, Auburn, St. Johns, Virginia, Georgia Tech, NC State. all these programs probably have better facilities as well.

You people that think it's so easy to win in a BCS conference need to wake up, there's tons more failures then there are success.. I think Tubby has been pretty successful and I think the arrow is pointing up something you couldn't say when he got there.

Minnesota has a better program historically than most of the programs you mentioned (Virginia probably being the exception). I would also disagree with your comment that the arrow is pointing up for the Gopher program. If you look at talent in compared to talent out, the arrow is pointing down for the Gophers. That's not to say things can't turn around, but I think you will see the Gophers predicted to finish lower in the Big Ten in year six of Tubby's tenure than they have been since year one of his tenure.

 

[notagopherfan]

Minnesota has a better program historically than most of the programs you mentioned (Virginia probably being the exception). I would also disagree with your comment that the arrow is pointing up for the Gopher program. If you look at talent in compared to talent out, the arrow is pointing down for the Gophers. That's not to say things can't turn around, but I think you will see the Gophers predicted to finish lower in the Big Ten in year six of Tubby's tenure than they have been since year one of his tenure.

LOL..they do not have better program historically then any of those teams mentioned. not one of them. where do you get this stuff from? Arkansas won a national title went to the ncaa tournament like 13 years in row from 89 to 2001.. more than you have in your entire history. NC State won a national title in 80's. I'm pretty sure all of the teams mentioned have more ncaa appearances than Minnesota. I believe some of you people's perception of the program is skewed. There's not a huge amount of success in any era of Minnesota basketball.

 

[zambam]

Minnesota has a better program historically than most of the programs you mentioned (Virginia probably being the exception). I would also disagree with your comment that the arrow is pointing up for the Gopher program. If you look at talent in compared to talent out, the arrow is pointing down for the Gophers. That's not to say things can't turn around, but I think you will see the Gophers predicted to finish lower in the Big Ten in year six of Tubby's tenure than they have been since year one of his tenure.

See this is what I don't get about a lot of Minnesota fans. The reasoning for not being happy with the team is because we are historically better. No, no we are not. We are historically average, at best. I hate saying it, but it's true.

 

[notagopherfan]

LOL..they do not have better program historically then any of those teams mentioned. not one of them. where do you get this stuff from? Arkansas won a national title went to the ncaa tournament like 13 years in row from 89 to 2001.. more than you have in your entire history. NC State won a national title in 80's. I'm pretty sure all of the teams mentioned have more ncaa appearances than Minnesota. I believe some of you people's perception of the program is skewed. There's not a huge amount of success in any era of Minnesota basketball.

the only era in entire history of minnesota basketball that was even remotely successful, doesn't count. Only 2 of Clems appearances actually count. Tubby has 2 in 4 years. Granted he hasn't won a game there yet but he's got you going in the right direction. Tubby won 20 games or more in his first 3 seasons.. something that's never been done there before. Even counting the years thrown out by Clem you didn't win 20 or more 3 years in a row. Of course you're going to say the Big Ten hasn't been playing a tournament that long and you're right but teams have been playing 30 games for the last 30 years.

 

[notagopherfan]

See this is what I don't get about a lot of Minnesota fans. The reasoning for not being happy with the team is because we are historically better. No, no we are not. We are historically average, at best. I hate saying it, but it's true.

I would say you're historically just below average, taking out what clem did because it really doesn't count. You're below average

 

[EG#9]

See this is what I don't get about a lot of Minnesota fans. The reasoning for not being happy with the team is because we are historically better. No, no we are not. We are historically average, at best. I hate saying it, but ict's true.[/QUOTE

You know little to nothing, but Minnesota is historically better than most of the teams "notagopherfan" mentioned. He specifically mentioned Arkansas not being in that group, then put them back in when he responded to me. NC State was good under Jimmy V, but is stuck in a state where they have been number 4 for a long time now. Minnesota is better than Iowa, Auburn, Texas Tech, etc. People like you, just want to be happy, so they constantly adjust their standards for what is acceptable or what defines "success". If someone came on this board when Tubby was hired and said that we'd still be searching for our first winning conference record in year 5 (and almost assuredly going in to year 6 looking for the same thing), they would have been run off the board. Now, some people, like yourself, want to act like it's acceptable to be where the Gophers are at. Personally, I don't put a ton of stock in to "historical records" because things change and prior success/failure shouldn't determine future results (Wisconsin is a perfect example, Minnesota still leads the historical series even after how down the Gopher program has been...the Badgers have dominated the series for the most part recently). If the Minnesota administration believed that Minnesota was destined to finish 6-7th in the conference like some people claim, they wouldn't spend $2 million on a coach. They'd just hire a Minnesotan (the low expectations crowd love this) for $750 K who speaks with a lot of "you betchas" and "don't ya knows" (they love this even more) who's team would play the "right way" on their way to 7-9 conference wins a year.

 

[CollegeBBallFan]

Let's see....colder than...!!! ( per my brother-in-law). One of the oldest basketball arenas in the nation, no practice facility, and very little tradition. That shows real dedication to the basketball program. Do you want to play there....? Take the bus and leaving the driving to ...does Tubby drive the bus, too? Pray you have a team full of 5 stars MN players - year after year.

 

[920/414 Gopher]

You know little to nothing, but Minnesota is historically better than most of the teams "notagopherfan" mentioned. He specifically mentioned Arkansas not being in that group, then put them back in when he responded to me. NC State was good under Jimmy V, but is stuck in a state where they have been number 4 for a long time now. Minnesota is better than Iowa, Auburn, Texas Tech, etc. People like you, just want to be happy, so they constantly adjust their standards for what is acceptable or what defines "success". If someone came on this board when Tubby was hired and said that we'd still be searching for our first winning conference record in year 5 (and almost assuredly going in to year 6 looking for the same thing), they would have been run off the board. Now, some people, like yourself, want to act like it's acceptable to be where the Gophers are at. Personally, I don't put a ton of stock in to "historical records" because things change and prior success/failure shouldn't determine future results (Wisconsin is a perfect example, Minnesota still leads the historical series even after how down the Gopher program has been...the Badgers have dominated the series for the most part recently). If the Minnesota administration believed that Minnesota was destined to finish 6-7th in the conference like some people claim, they wouldn't spend $2 million on a coach. They'd just hire a Minnesotan (the low expectations crowd love this) for $750 K who speaks with a lot of "you betchas" and "don't ya knows" (they love this even more) who's team would play the "right way" on their way to 7-9 conference wins a year.

So many Tubby haters on this board choose to completely ignore certain events in order to make their argument. I can't speak for everyone here, but my expectations for various things throughout life don't remain constant for eternity. Circumstances change. It's part of life. If we didn't have so many attrition and injury problems, who knows where the program might be today? Am I thrilled with the state of the program? Hell no, there's still a lot of work to do. Has there been a series of extreme events that shaped my expectations for this season? Of course. I refuse to mope around and be pissed off every day of my life because the Gophers aren't in Final Four discussion right now. When Tubby was hired, too many people assumed that's where we'd be in 2012. As if it's easy.

 

[howieramone]

So many Tubby haters on this board choose to completely ignore certain events in order to make their argument. I can't speak for everyone here, but my expectations for various things throughout life don't remain constant for eternity. Circumstances change. It's part of life. If we didn't have so many attrition and injury problems, who knows where the program might be today? Am I thrilled with the state of the program? Hell no, there's still a lot of work to do. Has there been a series of extreme events that shaped my expectations for this season? Of course. I refuse to mope around and be pissed off every day of my life because the Gophers aren't in Final Four discussion right now. When Tubby was hired, too many people assumed that's where we'd be in 2012. As if it's easy.

+1

 

[howieramone]

I would say you're historically just below average, taking out what clem did because it really doesn't count. You're below average

I respect your posts alot, but disagree on this one. How many schools have had a top 25 team in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's etc.? How many have placed as many in the NBA as we have? Don't you feel proud every time you go the the Barn and see the jerseys on the wall?

 

[XMan]

the only era in entire history of minnesota basketball that was even remotely successful, doesn't count. Only 2 of Clems appearances actually count. Tubby has 2 in 4 years. Granted he hasn't won a game there yet but he's got you going in the right direction. Tubby won 20 games or more in his first 3 seasons.. something that's never been done there before. Even counting the years thrown out by Clem you didn't win 20 or more 3 years in a row. Of course you're going to say the Big Ten hasn't been playing a tournament that long and you're right but teams have been playing 30 games for the last 30 years.

The only era in their entire history where the gophers were even remotely successful were Clems seasons? Really? The gophers had some very good teams in the 70's. From 71-72 to 81-82 the gophers had seasons where they were 21-11, 21-5, 24-3, and 23-6. They were also 112-74 in the big ten during those 10 years. I would at least say that they were remotely successful.

And yes...I realize that the NCAA says their 24-3 year doesn't count.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Minnesota has a better program historically than most of the programs you mentioned (Virginia probably being the exception). I would also disagree with your comment that the arrow is pointing up for the Gopher program. If you look at talent in compared to talent out, the arrow is pointing down for the Gophers. That's not to say things can't turn around, but I think you will see the Gophers predicted to finish lower in the Big Ten in year six of Tubby's tenure than they have been since year one of his tenure.

You are probably correct about Auburn and Texas Tech. Not the others. Since the NCAA Tourney began in 1939:
MN: 11 NCAA Tourney Appearances (3 since 2000), 4 S16, 1 F4, 3 Conference Championships
NC State: 22 Tourney (5 since 2000), 10 S16, 3 F4, 16 CC
Georgia Tech: 16 Tourney (5 since 2000), 7 S16, 2 F4, 6 CC
Virginia: 16 Tourney (2 since 2000), 7 S16, 2 F4, 5 CC
St. John's: 28 Tourney (3 since 2000), 6 E8, 2 F4, 6 CC
Iowa: 22 Tourney (3 since 2000), 7 S16, 3 F4, 8 CC

Of the six listed, we have less tourney appearances, less Sweet 16's, less Final Fours, and less conference championships.

St. John's is 9th in all-time winning percentage by the way. NC State is 30th.

We do seem to have a lot of alumni who have made it to the NBA however.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

So many Tubby haters on this board choose to completely ignore certain events in order to make their argument. I can't speak for everyone here, but my expectations for various things throughout life don't remain constant for eternity. Circumstances change. It's part of life. If we didn't have so many attrition and injury problems, who knows where the program might be today? Am I thrilled with the state of the program? Hell no, there's still a lot of work to do. Has there been a series of extreme events that shaped my expectations for this season? Of course. I refuse to mope around and be pissed off every day of my life because the Gophers aren't in Final Four discussion right now. When Tubby was hired, too many people assumed that's where we'd be in 2012. As if it's easy.

I consider myself pretty near the middle of the road when it comes to people on this board evaluating Tubby. Has he done some good things? Yes. Has he made some decisions he wishes he could have back? Yes. But I don't like seeing people who are frustrated with the state of the program and are disappointed in Tubby's performance so far being marginalized with comments like "pissed off....because the Gophers aren't in the Final Four discussion." The nature of the discontent is not that we aren't in contention to be one of the final four teams, it is that we are huge underdogs to even make the final four rounds (or even win a tournament game unless we fall to one of the play-in games between two eleven seeds). I don't think we should fire Tubby, but reasonable people can argue that he is not where he was expected to be and that he has to shoulder his fair share of the blame for that.

 

[howeda7]

I think you can look around the country over the last decade and find several up and comers who have failed to launch a middle level bcs school like yours.. Arkansas.. though not mid level but were reduced to such.. Georgia hasn't been able to consistently make the ncaa since Tubby was there.. Pat Knight at Texas Tech, Iowa, Auburn, St. Johns, Virginia, Georgia Tech, NC State. all these programs probably have better facilities as well.

You people that think it's so easy to win in a BCS conference need to wake up, there's tons more failures then there are success.. I think Tubby has been pretty successful and I think the arrow is pointing up something you couldn't say when he got there.

Your list jumps all over the place. Auburn and Texas Tech are two of the worst BCS jobs in America. Minnesota is a far better program overall, even if the last ten years don't show it. It also better than Iowa and NC State. Better than St. John's, UVa or GT? Debatable, but on the same level.

 

[920/414 Gopher]

I consider myself pretty near the middle of the road when it comes to people on this board evaluating Tubby. Has he done some good things? Yes. Has he made some decisions he wishes he could have back? Yes. But I don't like seeing people who are frustrated with the state of the program and are disappointed in Tubby's performance so far being marginalized with comments like "pissed off....because the Gophers aren't in the Final Four discussion." The nature of the discontent is not that we aren't in contention to be one of the final four teams, it is that we are huge underdogs to even make the final four rounds (or even win a tournament game unless we fall to one of the play-in games between two eleven seeds). I don't think we should fire Tubby, but reasonable people can argue that he is not where he was expected to be and that he has to shoulder his fair share of the blame for that.

Totally agree. I didn't mean for my extreme language to describe everyone who is less than satisfied with Tubby's performance. I consider myself to be pretty middle of the road on the situation as well. I just meant for that post to poke fun at the anti-Tubster extremists who call for his head after every loss.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

Totally agree. I didn't mean for my extreme language to describe everyone who is less than satisfied with Tubby's performance. I consider myself to be pretty middle of the road on the situation as well. I just meant for that post to poke fun at the anti-Tubster extremists who call for his head after every loss.

That's fair. Especially with regards to the ones who are nowhere to be found after Gopher wins.

 

[notagopherfan]

Your list jumps all over the place. Auburn and Texas Tech are two of the worst BCS jobs in America. Minnesota is a far better program overall, even if the last ten years don't show it. It also better than Iowa and NC State. Better than St. John's, UVa or GT? Debatable, but on the same level.

My list doesn't jump all over the place. All the teams I mentioned have been to the NCAA tournament more than the gophers. Tubby has been there twice in 4 years... about to be 3 in 5 years. You guys have never been 3 times in a row.. ever. It's not that the Gophers have had zero success but your successes have been tainted by ncaa sanctions. Which gives the appearance you've only been good when you've cheated. Not saying that is the case but it's the lack of consistent success that I'm refering too. It's not to say you don't have good fans and proud tradition. I think that's obvious but don't confuse that success. But an outdated arena and no practice facility doesn't give the appearance of wanting to advance the program into the modern college basketball era. You have a great coach, good attendance at games but you're way behind in facilities.

In judgement of Tubby's 4 1/2 years, he's been pretty successful compared to the history of the program. He'll end up with the best winning % of any coach you've ever had. If that's not sucess I don't know what is.

 

[notagopherfan]

Auburn is not a bad job at all. I don't think they'll ever be at the top of the SEC consistently but certainly should be able to make the ncaa tournament consistently. Great campus, lots of local and regional talent, good facilities and a cash cow football program, something the gophers don't have. The only teams standing in their way are Kentucky, Vandy, Florida, Alabama and Arkansas. Now it's going to get tougher with Mizzou and Texas A&M coming in but there's no reason why Auburn can't be 4 or 5th in the SEC every year. They just need a good coach.

 

[brucekaupa]

If that's not success I don't know what is.

I do:
- Big Ten Championships (regular season...not the 2nd-chance tourney)
- Big Ten top-half finishes
- NCAA tournament wins

 

[GophersInIowa]

First of all, I think we have great basketball tradition at the U, and we should all be proud of the program. We've had a lot of great players come through.

But, I do think sometimes we have an inflated view of the success of our program. Looking at the 12 programs in our conference now, we have the 4th lowest NCAA Tourney appearances all-time, 4th lowest tourney appearances since 1990, and 3rd lowest Sweet 16 appearances all-time.

That doesn't mean we should accept being mediocre or not strive to be a top program. We absolutely should. I'm not satisfied with hovering around .500 every year and getting a tourney bid once in awhile. But let's face it, looking at past success, our program hasn't been that good.

 

[notagopherfan]

First of all, I think we have great basketball tradition at the U, and we should all be proud of the program. We've had a lot of great players come through.

But, I do think sometimes we have an inflated view of the success of our program. Looking at the 12 programs in our conference now, we have the 4th lowest NCAA Tourney appearances all-time, 4th lowest tourney appearances since 1990, and 3rd lowest Sweet 16 appearances all-time.

That doesn't mean we should accept being mediocre or not strive to be a top program. We absolutely should. I'm not satisfied with hovering around .500 every year and getting a tourney bid once in awhile. But let's face it, looking at past success, our program hasn't been that good.

I agree. I think your arrow is pointing up and another ncaa appearance is on the horizon. I think you beat Wisc Twice, NW, and pick off Indiana you might even get in the top 25.