I thought they hired this coach cause he could recruit? So where are the players?

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cjbfbp said:
"My strong preferences when it comes to recruiting is they fit a profile. Preferably one of high character, defends, and offensively unselfish."

That's boilerplate, anodyne rhetoric (a specialty of yours I notice). You rarely know exactly what you have in a player until the results come in.

As far as what Coyle wants, I suspect he wants programs with better records that he can sell to donors and ones that put more people in the seats. It would be foolish and unprofessional for him to start dictating to new coaches the strategies and tactics they should employ to accomplish those goals. Only your most entrenched and powerful ADs (the Bo Schembechler types) are likely to attempt something like that.

I'm sure he's heard from all sorts of folks (including more than a few rich ones) how the basketball team should get a higher portion of highly rated local talent so I would expect him to mouth those sentiments. Notice that we don't hear as much of that about the football program. Winning has a way of putting those secondary concerns on the back burner.
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Lol on the boilerplate comment. If you want more specifics, let me know what specifics you wan, but my preference basketball wise isn't the same as everyone else and it differs depending on the program because not all basketball programs are created equal. Things like conference style of play, talent development in the region, and many other things go into deciding what the profile for your program should be. In our conference I really do like Purdue and teams who build their program with a defensive focus compared to the Iowa who are offensive first.

You are 100% right on the optics and donors mattering. Minnesota is provincial and the local one of us carries a lot of weight here and it obviously did with Mark Coyle otherwise Ben wouldn't have gotten an interview. I personally want a team that wins over having recruits that are from here. Coyle may not be direct in telling Ben who to recruit, but he choose a guy who plans and wants to recruit this region heavily, so you can take that for what you'd like.
 


howeda7 said:
The shrinking crowds are a virtual certainty, at least for the first couple years.
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Where have you been....are you just noticing this now? I was at a B1G game two years ago and just about the whole upper deck was empty. So funny you bring this up now and not the last 8 seasons. Even the interest in Gopher basketball on this message board is down compared to what it was 10 years ago. The crowds aren't going to shrink anymore than they already have, and honestly they will probably increase in size by the end of next season.
 

ethomasp31 said:
Where have you been....are you just noticing this now? I was at a B1G game two years ago and just about the whole upper deck was empty. So funny you bring this up now and not the last 8 seasons. Even the interest in Gopher basketball on this message board is down compared to what it was 10 years ago. The crowds aren't going to shrink anymore than they already have, and honestly they will probably increase in size by the end of next season.
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I never said shrinking crowds weren't already an issue. In 2010, we were still #23 in the country at 13,453 per game. In 19-20 it was 10,232. But I'll be shocked if it's over 9,000 this year.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
Winning in state recruits starves the neighboring programs of talent. It’s pretty simple.
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No doubt. If they can't get kids from our state they will just be stuck with empty scholarships with nothing to do with them.
 


UpAndUnder43 said:
Why are you mad at me? I’ve been more critical of the hire than anyone. You’re preaching to the preacher. All I said was my biggest concern isn’t that he can’t currently get commits.
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Not mad at ya! LOL. Sorry if I came off that way.

I just think that we are in for a few years here of recruits that don't scare anyone. I think putting the eggs in the basket of this guy bringing in top talent is fool's gold. IMO, he will probably have an even harder time than Pitino did in recruiting until he wins.

No one wants to come to a poor program until they have proven they can win first. The coach's elevator pitch doesn't matter until he has some substance to back it.

This is why hiring a "recruiter" makes zero sense to me. No one can recruit towards the top until they win first. Doesn't matter the sport.
 

Yeah, y a gotta cheat for a little bit ‘rashard griffith’ win and then you can rely on recruiting.
 

Go Gophs said:
Not mad at ya! LOL. Sorry if I came off that way.

I just think that we are in for a few years here of recruits that don't scare anyone. I think putting the eggs in the basket of this guy bringing in top talent is fool's gold. IMO, he will probably have an even harder time than Pitino did in recruiting until he wins.

No one wants to come to a poor program until they have proven they can win first. The coach's elevator pitch doesn't matter until he has some substance to back it.

This is why hiring a "recruiter" makes zero sense to me. No one can recruit towards the top until they win first. Doesn't matter the sport.
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That all depends on how you define "top talent."

If you're talking about guys ranked top 50-100 Nationally, then no, I don't expect to see the Gophers landing a lot of Top Talent. Because they haven't been able to attract that level of players in decades.

I think the hope for Johnson is that he will bring in players who are more compatible with each other. One of my gripes with Pitino is that - IMHO - he would just go out and get whatever players he could, whether they fit well with each other or not.

As we have seen from WI or IA, you don't have to have NBA 1st-round draft picks to have winning teams. But, if you go that route, you need players who are recruited to play a specific system and buy into that system. the puzzle pieces need to fit together.

I'm with Built on this one. Give me a roster of guys who buy into the system, work hard and bust their butts on defense, and the results will follow.
 

Go Gophs said:
Not mad at ya! LOL. Sorry if I came off that way.

I just think that we are in for a few years here of recruits that don't scare anyone. I think putting the eggs in the basket of this guy bringing in top talent is fool's gold. IMO, he will probably have an even harder time than Pitino did in recruiting until he wins.

No one wants to come to a poor program until they have proven they can win first. The coach's elevator pitch doesn't matter until he has some substance to back it.

This is why hiring a "recruiter" makes zero sense to me. No one can recruit towards the top until they win first. Doesn't matter the sport.
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Well.... I believe that more than half of Coyle's bet is on the bond Ben and the influencers in the community have. I think that Coyle is betting on locals bonding together around Johnson and putting together a recruiting class of guys that want to stay together and turn this thing around.
I could see 3-4 locals joined by the right players from other areas of the country to form a really good 6-7 frosh class and the balance filled by short term guys of character.

IF that happens, then it is possible that Johnson gets a recruiting harvest this fall that is beyond what the program could normally expect considering history. That's my hope. That and the idea that Johnson is a man who is of good character and will recruit players of the same ilk to put together a team that plays together, fights hard and eventually wins together.

That's my hope. Absent that, it is going to be a tough slog.
 




short ornery norwegian said:
That all depends on how you define "top talent."

If you're talking about guys ranked top 50-100 Nationally, then no, I don't expect to see the Gophers landing a lot of Top Talent. Because they haven't been able to attract that level of players in decades.

I think the hope for Johnson is that he will bring in players who are more compatible with each other. One of my gripes with Pitino is that - IMHO - he would just go out and get whatever players he could, whether they fit well with each other or not.

As we have seen from WI or IA, you don't have to have NBA 1st-round draft picks to have winning teams. But, if you go that route, you need players who are recruited to play a specific system and buy into that system. the puzzle pieces need to fit together.

I'm with Built on this one. Give me a roster of guys who buy into the system, work hard and bust their butts on defense, and the results will follow.
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Oturu and Coffey were both top 50 composites. Not sure where the decades comment came from. IW was top 65. I’d have to look and see if other Pitino recruits were top 100.
To land players in the top 100 should be an expectation. They need to fit the system but if we’re settling for lower ranked guys and hoping Johnson is an amazing coach and has a top tier system we’re in trouble.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
Oturu and Coffey were both top 50 composites. Not sure where the decades comment came from. IW was top 65. I’d have to look and see if other Pitino recruits were top 100.
To land players in the top 100 should be an expectation. They need to fit the system but if we’re settling for lower ranked guys and hoping Johnson is an amazing coach and has a top tier system we’re in trouble.
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100% right. Bo Ryan was an amazing coach- but he still got a ton of top 100- top 150 recruits in order to accomplish what he did. Great system or not, you need good players.
 

bga1 said:
100% right. Bo Ryan was an amazing coach- but he still got a ton of top 100- top 150 recruits in order to accomplish what he did. Great system or not, you need good players.
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Pitino got good individual players but had no system. Johnson currently has 1/2 a roster and I cannot comment on his system as he hasn’t yet coached a game. Gritty isn’t a system.
 



UpAndUnder43 said:
Pitino got good individual players but had no system. Johnson currently has 1/2 a roster and I cannot comment on his system as he hasn’t yet coached a game. Gritty isn’t a system.
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Pitino always had half of a roster and it was a big problem. The guys who played were pretty good but we never got to know the guys that didn't.
 

bga1 said:
Pitino always had half of a roster and it was a big problem. The guys who played were pretty good but we never got to know the guys that didn't.
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No. Pitino had a full roster—he just didn’t use it. Johnson literally has 1/2 of a roster. Haha.
 

bga1 said:
You don't have to be that patient, deliberate or shrewd when you have 6 open scholarships to burn. If they get 3 quality players out of the remaining 6 spots- count me as amazed and enthusiastic about being competitive this fall. I am one who believes that Johnson and staff will coach well and get players that play hard and have skills. The recruiting is a serious concern.
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UpAndUnder43 said:
No. Pitino had a full roster—he just didn’t use it. Johnson literally has 1/2 of a roster. Haha.
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Which half roster would win on the court?
 

short ornery norwegian said:
That all depends on how you define "top talent."

If you're talking about guys ranked top 50-100 Nationally, then no, I don't expect to see the Gophers landing a lot of Top Talent. Because they haven't been able to attract that level of players in decades.

I think the hope for Johnson is that he will bring in players who are more compatible with each other. One of my gripes with Pitino is that - IMHO - he would just go out and get whatever players he could, whether they fit well with each other or not.

As we have seen from WI or IA, you don't have to have NBA 1st-round draft picks to have winning teams. But, if you go that route, you need players who are recruited to play a specific system and buy into that system. the puzzle pieces need to fit together.

I'm with Built on this one. Give me a roster of guys who buy into the system, work hard and bust their butts on defense, and the results will follow.
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Add to that that is the ability to evaluate better than anyone and develop. UVA has a bunch of guys in the NBA and none of them projected that way when offered. They try for tons of top 20 guys and never get them. The critical part is high character guys that grow and stick together through thick and thin. Hyper competitive guys that are never out conditioned, that want the workload and requirements. This staff is equipped to do business that way.
 



MennoSota said:
Time to go "Old School" and call out the Converse high top on y'all!
Bunch a babes talkin bout Barkley's, Forums and Jordans...y'all ain't played til ya wore the Converse high tops with two pairs of athletic socks and team matching stirrup socks up to the knee.
Now...go slink back to your little cheap ass shoe store...😅
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Chuck Taylors.JPG
These Chuck Taylor Converse All Stars were standard issue back in '74. All of our teams rocked them.
 

Pe
ecoperson said:
Which half roster would win on the court?
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I know you are trying to spread optimism about BJ, and I’m happy a number of people are. But gun to head I have to pick current roster vs last years roster, I think I’ll take the one that 1) beat three top 5 teams, 2) has a pro caliber point guard, 3) has at least 1 center.

I’m not critical of BJ yet, he needs time to work (maybe more than other candidates). However, Pitinos failures are not evidence that BJ will do any good. I also believe that Pitinos failures were not as grand as some assert, but rather the margin for error is razor thin. I still maintain that last years roster was top 4 caliber and they showed it on multiple nights.
 

Simply put- pitino had recruits play basketball together. When you need to have recruits together to play basketball. Ben Johnson, you may go ahead and borrow that line.
 

bc2211 said:
Pe

I know you are trying to spread optimism about BJ, and I’m happy a number of people are. But gun to head I have to pick current roster vs last years roster, I think I’ll take the one that 1) beat three top 5 teams, 2) has a pro caliber point guard, 3) has at least 1 center.

I’m not critical of BJ yet, he needs time to work (maybe more than other candidates). However, Pitinos failures are not evidence that BJ will do any good. I also believe that Pitinos failures were not as grand as some assert, but rather the margin for error is razor thin. I still maintain that last years roster was top 4 caliber and they showed it on multiple nights.
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I had no motive with my post... just a fun poke. I have been accused of being a Pitino apologist on here so this certainly was not a dis at him. Based on what we know now, I do not doubt that last year's squad would win.

My pokes are at the chicken littles around here (NOT you) that are constantly dragging the program down. Based on the negative reactions here, it appears that Johnson has lost every game he has coached over the last few years. Oh wait... the season doesn't start for 5 months, he doesn't have a full roster, and he hasn't coached a game! Maybe the jury should wait until we have all of the facts before the judgement?!
 

Go Gophs said:
Not mad at ya! LOL. Sorry if I came off that way.

I just think that we are in for a few years here of recruits that don't scare anyone. I think putting the eggs in the basket of this guy bringing in top talent is fool's gold. IMO, he will probably have an even harder time than Pitino did in recruiting until he wins.

No one wants to come to a poor program until they have proven they can win first. The coach's elevator pitch doesn't matter until he has some substance to back it.

This is why hiring a "recruiter" makes zero sense to me. No one can recruit towards the top until they win first. Doesn't matter the sport.
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I think your take may apply to head coach, but one or the other is a requirement - - either the head coach must be a solid recruiter, or there better be an assistant who can recruit, nationally. There are teams that will turn around upcoming season despite years of losing, because they have a staff that can recruit. In the Gophers case, they are far from a losing program but have landed on patiently waiting for the in-state side to take hold while they've signed who they could via portal (but no size). Meanwhile other programs are signing guys that would have fit perfectly well in a Gophers uniform. And they're not all landing at programs that are necessarily of better pedigree than U of M.

Johnson could turn out to be a great hire, and if so, Gophers will have a stable program for years to come. It's off to an odd/slow start, and it's not unfair to question why not a single player signed who is 6'9"/6'10" or so via the portal. Hopefully a nice surprise in the next few weeks to address that.
 

BJ has been head coach for about 11 minutes. Zero games played. LOL. Overreaction much? I'll wait for a few years before I can judge his recruiting ability. This next class, 2022, is what really matters. Land Holloman, Lee, and Watson-Saulsberry and that's an amazing class.

​

 



Gopherfan1000 said:
I still have no clue why we didn't hire Musselman. That was the right choice and the team we had currently was on the brink of being pretty damn good with some legitimate coaching. This was to please the racial hire boosters and advocates. This hire is going to set us back years.
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For sure musselman would’ve come here for 6-7 million per. Do we have that?
 

ecoperson said:
I had no motive with my post... just a fun poke. I have been accused of being a Pitino apologist on here so this certainly was not a dis at him. Based on what we know now, I do not doubt that last year's squad would win.

My pokes are at the chicken littles around here (NOT you) that are constantly dragging the program down. Based on the negative reactions here, it appears that Johnson has lost every game he has coached over the last few years. Oh wait... the season doesn't start for 5 months, he doesn't have a full roster, and he hasn't coached a game! Maybe the jury should wait until we have all of the facts before the judgement?!
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Conviction, then trial!
 


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