I thought they hired this coach cause he could recruit? So where are the players?

[GopherBlood777]

"An excuse exists to justify, blame or defend a fault…with the intent to absolve oneself of accountability." I have never offered excuses.

"Reason implies that fault is sincerely recognized and accepted…" and that you step up and take accountability for your actions. I am all for acknowledging and owning the facts and determining ways to overcome to achieve positive results.

Many of the posters on the board are seemingly fixated on the past versus the facts. We are NOT going to get a replacement for Ben after 2 months so stop whining about it. We are NOT going to be able to resign the student-athletes that have signed with another team so quit hand-wringing over it.

If you are upset and have a solution, DO SOMETHING. I welcome people who work their way out of problems and don't just complain about them.

This is getting weird, you are acting like criticism of the roster thus far is somehow a personal attack on ben or an automatic assumption he will fail as a coach. Most of what I have read has been an objective assessment of where we are RIGHT NOW with most hoping they are wrong. Not sure what you want posters on a message board to do about it if they are not happy. People come here to talk gopher basketball for better or worse, but in the end it's just talk. Ben is obviously not responsible for the past, the facts are the roster as it currently stands and posters will discuss as they see fit.

 

[Gopher Teeth]

What is happening with Gopher basketball right now is one of the hardest scenarios for fans to deal with. A lot of fans really struggle with the "wait and see" aspect of coaching changes. They want to know it is all going to work out right away and that just isn't possible (even when an established coach is hired).

Knowing it might take 2-3 years to start seeing a payoff from the hire is really hard for the instant gratification crowd to deal with. They obsess over every thing that happens and try to read way too far into every move that is made or not made.

There are still fans on this forum that are worried about how well the team is going to do record wise during the 21-22 season. The idea that the on the court results next year don't really matter is a tough thing for some to grasp.

I just want to say thanks for being a reasonable optimist. You at least recognize the things that are happening now and you are honest if they don't smell right and the things that are still unknown you have chosen a positive lean. I can deal with that reasonable stance with a positive bias. Some on here are acting like everything that happens is exactly part of the plan, like its a good thing we lost all our players, because of course if they aren't here then Ben didn't want them, but anyways that's not what I wanted to say.

I get all of what you are saying, and in no way was I expecting a great year next year, my concern is the 2022 recruiting class. At this point I am not seeing signs that would lead me to believe there is going to be big success, mainly because I am not seeing someone who can sell ice to an eskimo, that's what I believe it will take to succeed at Minnesota, and here is why:

• Sure if he could have kept all the players, that in no way would have been a panacea, but at least we would have seen evidence that Ben can sell to kids. Because the opposite happened it raises concerns.
• He was not able to get any interest from Xavier players. I get concerned when players who entered the portal, who know Ben very well, and none of them have any interest in following him.
• In general I would not consider that he has been a big winner in head-to-head recruiting of players in the portal so this seems reasonable to think that he may not be able to win with traditional recruiting.
• We aren't hearing anything that makes us think any 2022 recruits are likely coming to the U. In the past I would say that usually means they aren't coming.
• I don't see a credible unique sales pitch that Ben has. Some coaches have NBA ties, some have game tape to show kids, some have past season tourney runs. The only thing he has are things that sound like coach speak that any coach could say, things that won't differentiate his pitch, but Ben's competition will have things they can point to.
• My main concern is with all these things going the wrong way, and then you get a 6-24 or 8-22 season, anything you are trying to sell loses credibility and is not a situation that most kids are going to be excited to join.
• Then if you miss on that 2022 class, that means, assuming the best, you won't have a potential positive type of season till maybe 2026 or 2027. If you hit on that 2022 class it will take 2 maybe 3 years to start coming into their own, but that's ok, because you got the team that will turn things around, so you don't need to worry about convincing as many players in the subsequent years. If you miss, now you wrack up another bad year or two and then are trying to sell players with an even worst resume. Bottom-line if Ben can't sell himself in 2021, its only going to get harder.
• After 2022, the talent coming up is pretty sparse in Minnesota, which is supposedly where BJ has the advantage.

So while the 2021 season doesn't matter in and of itself, but it does play a role in the 2022 recruiting. I like you am not worried about 2021 season, I am worried that it becomes a negative when trying to win the 2022 recruiting battles, and losing that could be the death blow for a long time, that's what I am concerned with.

 

[SanDiegoGopherFan]

How many transfers list out who offers them? Go look an interview with him he talks about who was recruiting him.

Hey...hey...it's ok...it is okay, I'm sure on your "computer" there is "an interview" somewhere out there where he talks about who was recruiting him, I'm sure you won't be able to find this link now, its ok, its okay. We all deal with things different and that's okay.

I'm here for you if you ever want to chat. Just DM, we can play some soft background music and I'll just listen....just listen.

shhh...now just sleep...sleep.

 

[ecoperson]

This is getting weird, you are acting like criticism of the roster thus far is somehow a personal attack on ben or an automatic assumption he will fail as a coach. Most of what I have read has been an objective assessment of where we are RIGHT NOW with most hoping they are wrong. Not sure what you want posters on a message board to do about it if they are not happy. People come here to talk gopher basketball for better or worse, but in the end it's just talk. Ben is obviously not responsible for the past, the facts are the roster as it currently stands and posters will discuss as they see fit.

One can't be objective until one has put the engine together and gotten the car on the track. Only the results matters. I don't care what the players look like. I don't care whether they have stars next to their name. All I care about is whether they win basketball games.

If you read many on here, they are predicting that the team won't win 6 games all season. Based on what? They don't know these players. I want to see a complete roster and at least one game before predicting their fate. If they lose their first game by 50, I will be the first to admit that we are in for a world of hurt!

In the end, repeating the same lines and predicting doom and gloom gets REALLY old and has dominated the conversation. Half of the posters on here since the hire are ALREADY talking about buyouts and when the next coaching search will occur. They are presupposing that this will be a failure BEFORE any body of work.

What do I want you to do about it? Be active! Gather a bunch of those with your views and contact Coyle about your concerns, start raising money to ensure that we can throw our weight around during the next coaching search, or start showing up at AAU games across the country wearing U of M gear to ensure that recruits see the support for the maroon and gold. Until I see even a call for action, the vast majority of posters on here are just wasting their time pi55ing and moaning. Be constructive with your energy.

 

[SanDiegoGopherFan]

The biggest concern for me is not the W/L record for 21/22. It is the apparent inability of BJ to sell the vision for the program to enough highly regarded transfers or even the players who were ON the roster - who are all now transferring out. Obviously many teams go through a mass exodus with a new coach, but seriously, only Ihnen is staying?? The only way that is acceptable is if Ben has a major influx of talent coming in and he was actively encouraging these guys to leave. We have to assume he was trying to convince Gabe, Tre, Mash, Robbins, Brandon Johnson, even Freeman to stay, right? And he's 0 for all of them, they've scattered to the winds and NOT to upgraded conferences or programs. If he can't keep even the bench players on a bottom 4 Big 10 program here, what makes us think he's going to suddenly get all the top high school players from Minnesota next year?

That's where my criticism and concern is coming from. I know every situation is different and we aren't Indiana, but Mike Woodson at IU convinced 4 of the 6 guys who had entered the portal to stay. Other new coaches come in and articulate their vision and convince potential transfers to stay at their program and grow into something special. Ben has done that with exactly one player, but lost all the rest. Something is wrong with the sales pitch.

Very good post, never thought of it this way

 

[ecoperson]

I just want to say thanks for being a reasonable optimist. You at least recognize the things that are happening now and you are honest if they don't smell right and the things that are still unknown you have chosen a positive lean. I can deal with that reasonable stance with a positive bias. Some on here are acting like everything that happens is exactly part of the plan, like its a good thing we lost all our players, because of course if they aren't here then Ben didn't want them, but anyways that's not what I wanted to say.

I get all of what you are saying, and in no way was I expecting a great year next year, my concern is the 2022 recruiting class. At this point I am not seeing signs that would lead me to believe there is going to be big success, mainly because I am not seeing someone who can sell ice to an eskimo, that's what I believe it will take to succeed at Minnesota, and here is why:

• Sure if he could have kept all the players, that in no way would have been a panacea, but at least we would have seen evidence that Ben can sell to kids. Because the opposite happened it raises concerns.
• He was not able to get any interest from Xavier players. I get concerned when players who entered the portal, who know Ben very well, and none of them have any interest in following him.
• In general I would not consider that he has been a big winner in head-to-head recruiting of players in the portal so this seems reasonable to think that he may not be able to win with traditional recruiting.
• We aren't hearing anything that makes us think any 2022 recruits are likely coming to the U. In the past I would say that usually means they aren't coming.
• I don't see a credible unique sales pitch that Ben has. Some coaches have NBA ties, some have game tape to show kids, some have past season tourney runs. The only thing he has are things that sound like coach speak that any coach could say, things that won't differentiate his pitch, but Ben's competition will have in spades.
• My main concern is with all these things going the wrong way, and then you get a 6-24 or 8-22 season, anything you are trying to sell loses credibility and is not a situation that most kids are going to be excited to join.
• Then if you miss on that 2022 class, that means, assuming the best, you won't have a potential positive type of season till maybe 2026 or 2027. If you hit on that 2022 class it will take 2 maybe 3 years to start coming into their own, but that's ok, because you got the team that will turn things around, so you don't need to worry about convincing as many players in the subsequent years. If you miss, now you wrack up another bad year or two and then are trying to sell players with an even worst resume. Bottom-line if Ben can't sell himself in 2021, its only going to get harder.
• After 2022, the talent coming up is pretty sparse in Minnesota, which is supposedly where BJ has the advantage.

So while the 2021 season doesn't matter in and of itself, but it does play a role in the 2022 recruiting. I like you am not worried about 2021 season, I am worried that it becomes a negative when trying to win the 2022 recruiting battles, and losing that could be the death blow for a long time, that's what I am concerned with.

Where do you get anything suggesting that '22 prospects aren't interested in coming here?

Fuller just wrote that Watson-Saulsberry, a top 2022 prospect for @grassrootshoops, was offered by the new #Gophers staff "who already believe in me," he said. The athletic 6-8 junior has no frontrunners but says he fits the style of play at Minnesota and the culture they're building there."

There appear to be a couple of TX recruits who are interested in visiting. Seems solid to me.

 

[SanDiegoGopherFan]

Totally agree with you on this. The Pitino haters are getting their due. Pitino had issues but they were the same things that people complained about with Tubby, Monson, and yes even the mighty Haskins.

We had a good and developing roster last year and with incoming recruits would have been even better. Pitino did not develop the bench (which he admitted later was a big mistake) but at least the players liked playing for him. It is clear that they were here because of him. Not the case with Johnson.

All the players Ben has gotten are second class to those players that we had last year. It will be MANY years before we even get back to what we had last year. Although it was a disappointing year there were many good parts of it and there was a path to success.

Big mistake by Coyle.

This is true. I watched a recent interview of him and he was asked basically what he would change from his time at MN/or what he learned that he would do differently. His answer as "develop a bench"

I was kinda mad but also happy that he realized this. Regardless of his inability to "consistently bring in top MN recruits" he did bring in some quality players. man, if he could have learned he needed to develop a bench by year 4, I don't think we are in this situation.

 

[Gopher Teeth]

Where do you get anything suggesting that '22 prospects aren't interested in coming here?

Fuller just wrote that Watson-Saulsberry, a top 2022 prospect for @grassrootshoops, was offered by the new #Gophers staff "who already believe in me," he said. The athletic 6-8 junior has no frontrunners but says he fits the style of play at Minnesota and the culture they're building there."

There appear to be a couple of TX recruits who are interested in visiting. Seems solid to me.

They all say things like that, it doesn't mean much. I don't think I have ever heard a kid say "They offered but I really don't like them" or tweet "not very blessed to receive an offer from ______". Putting that aside I am just speaking to the evidence that we have at this moment, there is nothing to say we are getting a monster 2022 class, could that change, sure, but as of now we have no evidence of it.

 

[SanDiegoGopherFan]

As I've said... recruiting is about relationships. Not every recruit that Ben talked to in previous years is in the portal. Ben is building as fast as he can. He is working the portal to field a team but recruiting the HS kids who will be the backbone of the program for the foreseeable future. Obviously something happened with TX A&M Assistant Coach Jamie McNeilly or we would have two new starters. We will likely never know but this stall forced Ben to tap the brakes a bit on his work in the portal likely impacting who was available when it was finally known that McNeilly was not coming.

Welcome to being a Head Coach Ben Johnson. You've got a lot to learn.

 

[SanDiegoGopherFan]

"An excuse exists to justify, blame or defend a fault…with the intent to absolve oneself of accountability." I have never offered excuses.

"Reason implies that fault is sincerely recognized and accepted…" and that you step up and take accountability for your actions. I am all for acknowledging and owning the facts and determining ways to overcome to achieve positive results.

Many of the posters on the board are seemingly fixated on the past versus the facts. We are NOT going to get a replacement for Ben after 2 months so stop whining about it. We are NOT going to be able to resign the student-athletes that have signed with another team so quit hand-wringing over it.

If you are upset and have a solution, DO SOMETHING. I welcome people who work their way out of problems and don't just complain about them.

It's a message board and we are all fans, this is where we vent logical and illogical items related to our favorite college basketball team.

I'm sure there is a select few on here who might be donors with decent pockets, but unless you have that type of influence, this is just a place for us to vent, but also get excited.

Plus it's kind of a dead time anyways, until we get recruiting news for football. Otherwise I'm not into baseball

 

[GopherBlood777]

One can't be objective until one has put the engine together and gotten the car on the track. Only the results matters. I don't care what the players look like. I don't care whether they have stars next to their name. All I care about is whether they win basketball games.

If you read many on here, they are predicting that the team won't win 6 games all season. Based on what? They don't know these players. I want to see a complete roster and at least one game before predicting their fate. If they lose their first game by 50, I will be the first to admit that we are in for a world of hurt!

In the end, repeating the same lines and predicting doom and gloom gets REALLY old and has dominated the conversation. Half of the posters on here since the hire are ALREADY talking about buyouts and when the next coaching search will occur. They are presupposing that this will be a failure BEFORE any body of work.

What do I want you to do about it? Be active! Gather a bunch of those with your views and contact Coyle about your concerns, start raising money to ensure that we can throw our weight around during the next coaching search, or start showing up at AAU games across the country wearing U of M gear to ensure that recruits see the support for the maroon and gold. Until I see even a call for action, the vast majority of posters on here are just wasting their time pi55ing and moaning. Be constructive with your energy.

There are no results, people will judge the roster to date as that is all there is to go on. 1 Poster posted buyout information, and there was a brief discussion. Go to AAU games, fund raise, sell the program? You literally gave a job description of the head coach and AD, are we not paying them enough to do that job? It's the job of the University and Athletic department to provide an attractive product and they are paid quite nicely to do so. Calling for fans to do their job because you think they are complaining too much at this point is probably one of the worst takes I have ever read, so I assume you are being ironic. Once they play games and look as good as all the blind optimists say they will look, no one will complain. Pessimism does not equate to a desire for failure.

 

[GopherBlood777]

Where do you get anything suggesting that '22 prospects aren't interested in coming here?

Fuller just wrote that Watson-Saulsberry, a top 2022 prospect for @grassrootshoops, was offered by the new #Gophers staff "who already believe in me," he said. The athletic 6-8 junior has no frontrunners but says he fits the style of play at Minnesota and the culture they're building there."

There appear to be a couple of TX recruits who are interested in visiting. Seems solid to me.

I do like the players being offered for 2022 and they have good things to say about the staff and program. I hope what appears to be a much more focused recruiting strategy will pay the dividends that could not be realized by the previous regime.

 

[xxxdog]

Where do you get anything suggesting that '22 prospects aren't interested in coming here?

Fuller just wrote that Watson-Saulsberry, a top 2022 prospect for @grassrootshoops, was offered by the new #Gophers staff "who already believe in me," he said. The athletic 6-8 junior has no frontrunners but says he fits the style of play at Minnesota and the culture they're building there."

There appear to be a couple of TX recruits who are interested in visiting. Seems solid to me.

Several new coaches hired about the same time or even after Ben Johnson have received at least a verbal commitment from several high school players , no doubt Minnesota, will have numerous openings in in 2022-2023, simply the longer a player is indecisive likely he is very interested in another college or how he will progress his potential career in basketball with this or other offers.. Minnesota is on the clock to sign a decent in-state recruit soon, losing another player like Eli King to a similar program with a new coach & losing record {Iowa State} raises questionable doubt if Minnesota will move forward with in-state recruiting....

 

[eker0016]

Several new coaches hired about the same time or even after Ben Johnson have received at least a verbal commitment from several high school players , no doubt Minnesota, will have numerous openings in in 2022-2023, simply the longer a player is indecisive likely he is very interested in another college or how he will progress his potential career in basketball with this or other offers.. Minnesota is on the clock to sign a decent in-state recruit soon, losing another player like Eli King to a similar program with a new coach & losing record {Iowa State} raises questionable doubt if Minnesota will move forward with in-state recruiting....

At this point it is clear we are largely punting on 2021 recruiting, and focusing on 2022. It's crazy to think how much turnover we will have 2 years in a row, with all the 1 year players we have.

I remember a podcast episode from last year where either Ryan James/Burns, and another with Kendal Shell where they said Tre Holloman is the key to the class and he will influence others. I would love it if BJ was able to convince him to bring an epic haul of like 6-7 Minnesotans on board next year. Holloman, Ahjany Lee, Camden Heide, Watson-Saulsberry, Kendall Blue, Willie Wilson...then we need more bigs. Pipe dream, I know, but it would be crazy!

 

[ecoperson]

There are no results, people will judge the roster to date as that is all there is to go on. 1 Poster posted buyout information, and there was a brief discussion. Go to AAU games, fund raise, sell the program? You literally gave a job description of the head coach and AD, are we not paying them enough to do that job? It's the job of the University and Athletic department to provide an attractive product and they are paid quite nicely to do so. Calling for fans to do their job because you think they are complaining too much at this point is probably one of the worst takes I have ever read, so I assume you are being ironic. Once they play games and look as good as all the blind optimists say they will look, no one will complain. Pessimism does not equate to a desire for failure.

I keep thinking that we are done but you continually keep writing things that I never wrote. Please actually read what I wrote before responding. I didn't write one word about what the coach and AD were or weren't doing and I CERTAINLY never wrote that you should do their job for them. That would be a recipe for a winless season.

If the program is merely a 'product' for you, then I think that you have every right to complain. I am suggesting that you complain loudly to the AD who can do something about it. Unless you steer your energy towards some action, it is just yapping.

ADs listen to fans... especially fans with plans. If you have a plan to get a coach that you feel will provide you with a better product, I say send Coyle and email and he might listen. If you come equipped with the signatures of a few hundred other fans that you scrape up here on the GopherHole, you will certainly get a response.

Start talking with everyone you know about your vision for the program and building some interest in the U. Maybe some corporation that is managed by your friend's neighbor's daughter-in-law is doing well and will be inspired by your initiative to 'connect' with the U. Once you start throwing some $$ around, Coyle will definitely pay attention.

If you don't have an interest in that, show up at an AAU game to make sure that recruits from across the nation see you on the sideline in your maroon and gold this summer. Recruits want to play for diehard fans. Every little bit can help this team be successful.

I am not a blind optimist. My eyes are wide open. Having run my own business for nearly 20 years, I know that negativity is not a recipe for success. It brings out the worst in everyone and I root it out when I get a whiff. Searching for the positive has gotten me results. I surround myself with people who put in the effort to see through the haze and develop the vision and ingenuity that will make us the best.

 

[ecoperson]

It's a message board and we are all fans, this is where we vent logical and illogical items related to our favorite college basketball team.

I'm sure there is a select few on here who might be donors with decent pockets, but unless you have that type of influence, this is just a place for us to vent, but also get excited.

Plus it's kind of a dead time anyways, until we get recruiting news for football. Otherwise I'm not into baseball

I understand venting. Do you have to vent on every thread though? If I told many on here that the sky was blue today, they would respond that it isn't blue enough. I come looking for information on the new recruits and see well over half of the posts are about how he and the team will suck. What's the point in that?

I was as shocked as everyone else by the hire. I accepted it and moved on by Day 2. I have gone out of my way to read/watch everything that I can about Ben, the coaches, and the transfers. I understand the risk/reward here. I am going in eyes wide open. It could work well and it could be a disaster. Until I see evidence to the contrary on the court, I am expecting a bunch of plucky overachievers that will play team basketball and pull out some victories that no one saw coming.

 

[Tucker32]

Ben didn't deliberately push 10 guys out. That narrative is ridiculous. No one would do that. He gets a partial mulligan in that this is an unprecedented situation.

You have no idea. No one said he deliberately pushed then out. He also didn’t try to convince any of those who left to stay. I have no idea why you can’t grasp that. Who of those who left were really worth keeping. Not one - and I really like Gabe, but he was ready to move. The rest of them, time to move forward no matter what this year brings.

 

[SanDiegoGopherFan]

You have no idea. No one said he deliberately pushed then out. He also didn’t try to convince any of those who left to stay. I have no idea why you can’t grasp that. Who of those who left were really worth keeping. Not one - and I really like Gabe, but he was ready to move. The rest of them, time to move forward no matter what this year brings.

Technically you're incorrect. Read some of his interviews. He wanted to keep Both and also Gabe.

 

[PhiloVance]

Plus there are few big time coaches even if we agreed on the criteria. Tubby would be considered by most to be a big time coach and that was a bad hire. None of the name coaches are moving to Minneapolis. Muss was not coming here. He and his wife love it there. No way a bidding war would work either. Lets pretend we go to 6 million, which we do not have the money for and now what about Fleck, Whalen, athletes village, huge covid shortfall ! Perhaps we hired the best coach at this time and place. He could not possibly do worse than the last guy.

Agree Tubby was a bad hire! The reason he was hire was he came from the Kentucky program...which he was about to destroy.

 

[howeda7]

He also didn’t try to convince any of those who left to stay.

Come on. Neither of us can "know" about private conversations. But the long history of coaching changes strongly suggest you're wrong. In addition to Ben's own comments. He said he chose them. And no sane person would want the entire team to transfer or make no effort to convince them not to.

 

[PhiloVance]

You have no idea. No one said he deliberately pushed then out. He also didn’t try to convince any of those who left to stay. I have no idea why you can’t grasp that. Who of those who left were really worth keeping. Not one - and I really like Gabe, but he was ready to move. The rest of them, time to move forward no matter what this year brings.

So we should believe BJ could care less that all but 1 player left. He'd rather have a hand full of irregulars and go through the B1G with 1 to 3 victories.

 

[howeda7]

Agree Tubby was a bad hire! The reason he was hire was he came from the Kentucky program...which he was about to destroy.

Way over the top. Tubby was not a bad hire, nor was he about to "destroy" Kentucky. He never did worse than the round of 32 there. And it nearly worked here. We'll never know what might have been without year 3 getting blown up by the Royce/Trevor situations.

 

[Some guy]

So you cant.

No I can’t prove a negative

nor can anyone else in the history of the world

 

[builtbadgers]

Totally agree with you on this. The Pitino haters are getting their due. Pitino had issues but they were the same things that people complained about with Tubby, Monson, and yes even the mighty Haskins.

We had a good and developing roster last year and with incoming recruits would have been even better. Pitino did not develop the bench (which he admitted later was a big mistake) but at least the players liked playing for him. It is clear that they were here because of him. Not the case with Johnson.

All the players Ben has gotten are second class to those players that we had last year. It will be MANY years before we even get back to what we had last year. Although it was a disappointing year there were many good parts of it and there was a path to success.

Big mistake by Coyle.

It is not a matter of hate, it is a matter of fact that he was a proven loser. Bottom 10 % in guys that coached 8 plus years !

 

[Spaulding!No!]

This is what happens when you accept mediocrity for 8 yrs.

 

[Gopherfan84]

I just want to say thanks for being a reasonable optimist. You at least recognize the things that are happening now and you are honest if they don't smell right and the things that are still unknown you have chosen a positive lean. I can deal with that reasonable stance with a positive bias. Some on here are acting like everything that happens is exactly part of the plan, like its a good thing we lost all our players, because of course if they aren't here then Ben didn't want them, but anyways that's not what I wanted to say.

I get all of what you are saying, and in no way was I expecting a great year next year, my concern is the 2022 recruiting class. At this point I am not seeing signs that would lead me to believe there is going to be big success, mainly because I am not seeing someone who can sell ice to an eskimo, that's what I believe it will take to succeed at Minnesota, and here is why:

• Sure if he could have kept all the players, that in no way would have been a panacea, but at least we would have seen evidence that Ben can sell to kids. Because the opposite happened it raises concerns.
• He was not able to get any interest from Xavier players. I get concerned when players who entered the portal, who know Ben very well, and none of them have any interest in following him.
• In general I would not consider that he has been a big winner in head-to-head recruiting of players in the portal so this seems reasonable to think that he may not be able to win with traditional recruiting.
• We aren't hearing anything that makes us think any 2022 recruits are likely coming to the U. In the past I would say that usually means they aren't coming.
• I don't see a credible unique sales pitch that Ben has. Some coaches have NBA ties, some have game tape to show kids, some have past season tourney runs. The only thing he has are things that sound like coach speak that any coach could say, things that won't differentiate his pitch, but Ben's competition will have things they can point to.
• My main concern is with all these things going the wrong way, and then you get a 6-24 or 8-22 season, anything you are trying to sell loses credibility and is not a situation that most kids are going to be excited to join.
• Then if you miss on that 2022 class, that means, assuming the best, you won't have a potential positive type of season till maybe 2026 or 2027. If you hit on that 2022 class it will take 2 maybe 3 years to start coming into their own, but that's ok, because you got the team that will turn things around, so you don't need to worry about convincing as many players in the subsequent years. If you miss, now you wrack up another bad year or two and then are trying to sell players with an even worst resume. Bottom-line if Ben can't sell himself in 2021, its only going to get harder.
• After 2022, the talent coming up is pretty sparse in Minnesota, which is supposedly where BJ has the advantage.

So while the 2021 season doesn't matter in and of itself, but it does play a role in the 2022 recruiting. I like you am not worried about 2021 season, I am worried that it becomes a negative when trying to win the 2022 recruiting battles, and losing that could be the death blow for a long time, that's what I am concerned with.

I get your point but honestly most of the 2022 class will be committed before we play a game this year. Sounds like Ben and staff are all over them. I bet we have 3 2022 commitments by October with at least one top 150 MN kid. If we go into October with less than that other a dismal roster I think your point stands

 

[builtbadgers]

This is true. I watched a recent interview of him and he was asked basically what he would change from his time at MN/or what he learned that he would do differently. His answer as "develop a bench"

I was kinda mad but also happy that he realized this. Regardless of his inability to "consistently bring in top MN recruits" he did bring in some quality players. man, if he could have learned he needed to develop a bench by year 4, I don't think we are in this situation.

So just forget those 10th place defensive rankings nearly year after year ? No one will win here unless we are great defensively. So just forget never building a culture and what to think of someone who says that he hates to make excuses and then makes them anyway. To fail that miserably, for that long, they are doing many things poorly.

 

[PhiloVance]

Way over the top. Tubby was not a bad hire, nor was he about to "destroy" Kentucky. He never did worse than the round of 32 there. And it nearly worked here. We'll never know what might have been without year 3 getting blown up by the Royce/Trevor situations.

If only this hadn't happen if only that had happen...same could be said for Pitino. Tubby was a poor hire. If you notice he's continually worked himself down the coaching ladder.

 

[Plato]

I know it is a very slow period in college sports but Coyle made a decision about the head coach and he is the one who has to live with the results.
The HC with his salary and buy out will be pretty fixed financially no matter how the W/L record looks.
Why not just wait until the BIG BB season is under way and recruiting for 2022 is going on to make a judgement about the new HC ?

 

[cjbfbp]

I was kinda mad but also happy that he realized this. Regardless of his inability to "consistently bring in top MN recruits" he did bring in some quality players. man, if he could have learned he needed to develop a bench by year 4, I don't think we are in this situation.

Look, saying that you need to do some things better is one thing; actually changing your behavior and tactics to conform to that realization is another. I'm sure the realization that he needed stronger benches didn't occur to Pitino just after he left here. The problem is that he kept doing the same things and getting the same results.