I thought they hired this coach cause he could recruit? So where are the players?

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manderson1984 said:
I get your point but honestly most of the 2022 class will be committed before we play a game this year. Sounds like Ben and staff are all over them. I bet we have 3 2022 commitments by October with at least one top 150 MN kid. If we go into October with less than that other a dismal roster I think your point stands
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1 top 150? Wow. Standards are being lowered by the minute.
 

PhiloVance said:
If only this hadn't happen if only that had happen...same could be said for Pitino. Tubby was a poor hire. If you notice he's continually worked himself down the coaching ladder.
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Having the top player you recruited never play a single minute is a fairly uncommon occurance.

He voluntarily left Texas Tech for Memphis which was a mistake.
 

BarnBurner said:
1 top 150? Wow. Standards are being lowered by the minute.
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That's about where Pitino's recruiting was over his career here. In fact, I'm not sure he picked up any top 150 players in his first couple of recruiting classes (Mason and Murphy may have been close but I don't know that they were consensus top 150 - of course, in reality, Murphy was a top 150 player). Dorsey likely might have been but he was a mess.
 

cjbfbp said:
That's about where Pitino's recruiting was over his career here. In fact, I'm not sure he picked up any top 150 players in his first couple of recruiting classes (Mason and Murphy may have been close but I don't know that they were consensus top 150 - of course, in reality, Murphy was a top 150 player). Dorsey likely might have been but he was a mess.
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We need not talk about RP. He gone.

Better recruiting is A strength of our new coach, or so we have been told.
 



cjbfbp said:
That's about where Pitino's recruiting was over his career here. In fact, I'm not sure he picked up any top 150 players in his first couple of recruiting classes (Mason and Murphy may have been close but I don't know that they were consensus top 150 - of course, in reality, Murphy was a top 150 player). Dorsey likely might have been but he was a mess.
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The only class Pitino didn't pick up a top 150 recruit was his first full class. Mason was the best player at 176. He had at least one in the rest of his classes, sometimes two.

Both Dorsey and McBrayer were top 150, with Murphy and Jarvis Johnson just outside of 150 in his second full class.

Other top 150 recruits were Coffey, Curry, Washington, Oturu, Ihnen, Williams, Mashburn Jr.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
The only class Pitino didn't pick up a top 150 recruit was his first full class. Mason was the best player at 176. He had at least one in the rest of his classes, sometimes two.

Both Dorsey and McBrayer were top 150, with Murphy and Jarvis Johnson just outside of 150 in his second full class.

Other top 150 recruits were Coffey, Curry, Washington, Oturu, Ihnen, Williams, Mashburn Jr.
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By numbers of internet ranking he got plenty of guys but the evals and development were poor.
 

Buncha check collecting coaches is all we have had since Clem. Straight trash that was gettin paid with zero hustle.
 

I'm fatigued by the recent run of overly optimistic preseason predictions for MN sports teams. In the last couple of years there have been lofty expectations, even assumptions, for the Vikings, Twins, Timberwolves (playoffs, here we come!), Lynx and gopher hoops.

I'm not known for my excessive optimism on this board, so I have some credibility for what I'm about to say.

Maybe the team that Johnson is scrambling to put together for one year will be better than people think. If he can get them to play defense and really move the ball, that will partially compensate for a lack of talent. Pitino never took defense seriously and never prioritized ball movement. I think last year's team was last in the NCAA's in 3pt shooting %. Even a small uptick would make a difference. So, some defense, some ball movement and some three's. (None of which we had last year.) Maybe you have something.
 




jamiche said:
I'm fatigued by the recent run of overly optimistic preseason predictions for MN sports teams. In the last couple of years there have been lofty expectations, even assumptions, for the Vikings, Twins, Timberwolves (playoffs, here we come!), Lynx and gopher hoops.

I'm not known for my excessive optimism on this board, so I have some credibility for what I'm about to say.

Maybe the team that Johnson is scrambling to put together for one year will be better than people think. If he can get them to play defense and really move the ball, that will partially compensate for a lack of talent. Pitino never took defense seriously and never prioritized ball movement. I think last year's team was last in the NCAA's in 3pt shooting %. Even a small uptick would make a difference. So, some defense, some ball movement and some three's. (None of which we had last year.) Maybe you have something.
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They may not be the most talented team and that will show some nights in the Big Ten, but they are a mature team that has played a lot of college basketball, they seem like they could be a good shooting team, and they have Dave Thorson on staff which means the effort should be there on defense. That alone gives me some reason for optimism.
 

jamiche said:
I'm fatigued by the recent run of overly optimistic preseason predictions for MN sports teams. In the last couple of years there have been lofty expectations, even assumptions, for the Vikings, Twins, Timberwolves (playoffs, here we come!), Lynx and gopher hoops.

I'm not known for my excessive optimism on this board, so I have some credibility for what I'm about to say.

Maybe the team that Johnson is scrambling to put together for one year will be better than people think. If he can get them to play defense and really move the ball, that will partially compensate for a lack of talent. Pitino never took defense seriously and never prioritized ball movement. I think last year's team was last in the NCAA's in 3pt shooting %. Even a small uptick would make a difference. So, some defense, some ball movement and some three's. (None of which we had last year.) Maybe you have something.
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To your point: just to see the elimination of the once-a-half phenomenon in which we would have a good defensive possession forcing a tough shot only to have the shot hit the ground with no one in position for the rebound which the offense grabs followed by two passes leading to an open three which is nailed...
 

BarnBurner said:
1 top 150? Wow. Standards are being lowered by the minute.
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One top 150 from MN at least. Not just one out of three. I think we will have at least 3 recruits total in the top 150, but they won’t all be from MN
 




bga1 said:
No. He just didn't get enough of them.
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That is because so many fell far short of their ranking. We recruited on the level of UW and UVA by rankings but were far behind in evaluation and further behind in coaching. So poor in player completeness, so poor defensively.
 


builtbadgers said:
That is because so many fell far short of their ranking. We recruited on the level of UW and UVA by rankings but were far behind in evaluation and further behind in coaching. So poor in player completeness, so poor defensively.
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Disagree with UVA. Since Pitino started as coach, he didn't land one top 25 class. UVA has had 3, on top of having a top 10 class. One elite class like UVA pulled in basically won them the title. UVA's overall numbers are drastically skewed because during that stretch they had two 2 man classes somehow.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Both Dorsey and McBrayer were top 150, with Murphy and Jarvis Johnson just outside of 150 in his second full class.
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I'm talking about a consensus top 150, not just someone who managed to be listed among the top 150 by one particular service. Furthermore, if McBrayer was listed among the top 150 by any service and Murphy was not, that only shows how unreliable those ratings were. McBrayer overall career was that of a below average Big Ten starter. Dorsey might have developed into a good player if he could have kept his behavior together but that didn't appear to be possible.

Come to think of it, I seem to remember that recruit Johnathan Nwankwo also received 4 stars by one publication. He couldn't get admitted here and went to a junior college. He eventually played 8 games for Kent State while averaging 2.8 minutes per game. He finally landed at Marian University, an NAIA school. So much for his 4 star rating.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Disagree with UVA. Since Pitino started as coach, he didn't land one top 25 class. UVA has had 3, on top of having a top 10 class. One elite class like UVA pulled in basically won them the title. UVA's overall numbers are drastically skewed because during that stretch they had two 2 man classes somehow.
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A lot of truth in that post. But this is why evals matter because UVA offered Jerome when he was 232, Hunter 112, Guy was 50. Great class but the services did not rank it 7th until after they committed and boosted the player rankings way after the offer. Look at all the guys he got in other years like Brogdon, Harris, Perrantes, Clark, Mitchell, Adkins that all won conference titles, some became 1st team all ACC, defensive players of the year, all americans. The coaches evals were so much better than some ranking that only bumps them up after the verbals. Eric Bossi talked about that on a podcast ! Admitted it. Evals, including character, development and defense. None of what we were good at here. Bo Ryan was really good at it as well. At UVA it was not just about the National title, they have 5 regular season titles since TB got there. Duke has one in that time frame. He could not get the guys THE BLUE BLOODS DID BUT HE FOUND ANOTHER WAY TO BEAT THEM. That is what Ben will have to try. Be better at evals, charachter, development and defense than the last coach. It will be hard but not as hard as doing worse. We can disagree, that is part of what a message board is all about.
 

cjbfbp said:
I'm talking about a consensus top 150, not just someone who managed to be listed among the top 150 by one particular service. Furthermore, if McBrayer was listed among the top 150 by any service and Murphy was not, that only shows how unreliable those ratings were. McBrayer overall career was that of a below average Big Ten starter. Dorsey might have developed into a good player if he could have kept his behavior together but that didn't appear to be possible.

Come to think of it, I seem to remember that recruit Johnathan Nwankwo also received 4 stars by one publication. He couldn't get admitted here and went to a junior college. He eventually played 8 games for Kent State while averaging 2.8 minutes per game. He finally landed at Marian University, an NAIA school. So much for his 4 star rating.
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Right on. Evals are really tough. So many 4 stars out perform many 5 stars, Many threes out perform the 4's. Find the guys that fit, start with character, take quality shots, play top 3 conference defense.
 

builtbadgers said:
A lot of truth in that post. But this is why evals matter because UVA offered Jerome when he was 232, Hunter 112, Guy was 50. Great class but the services did not rank it 7th until after they committed and boosted the player rankings way after the offer. Look at all the guys he got in other years like Brogdon, Harris, Perrantes, Clark, Mitchell, Adkins that all won conference titles, some became 1st team all ACC, defensive players of the year, all americans. The coaches evals were so much better than some ranking that only bumps them up after the verbals. Eric Bossi talked about that on a podcast ! Admitted it. Evals, including character, development and defense. None of what we were good at here. Bo Ryan was really good at it as well. At UVA it was not just about the National title, they have 5 regular season titles since TB got there. Duke has one in that time frame. He could not get the guys THE BLUE BLOODS DID BUT HE FOUND ANOTHER WAY TO BEAT THEM. That is what Ben will have to try. Be better at evals, charachter, development and defense than the last coach. It will be hard but not as hard as doing worse. We can disagree, that is part of what a message board is all about.
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I agree the evals for Bennett are obviously better. And he's clearly a better coach than Pitino. No denying that. I just think UVA is/was a step ahead in recruiting as well. I tried to limit it to when Pitino took over as far as a time frame, so I didn't include the likes of Harris, Bronson, Harris etc, but those were very good recruits.
 

Gophers7633 said:
I agree the evals for Bennett are obviously better. And he's clearly a better coach than Pitino. No denying that. I just think UVA is/was a step ahead in recruiting as well. I tried to limit it to when Pitino took over as far as a time frame, so I didn't include the likes of Harris, Bronson, Harris etc, but those were very good recruits.
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And it continued within your time frame . Jerome is the best example. Look at his offer list ! Clark at plus 300, starts on the final 4 team ! There are misses as well, everyone has them but they will not be on character and the defense will be there. Those are a given. Johnson and Thorson must demand it. Certainly was not the case previously.
 

The BJ hire is a big gamble. We've got a few months before the start of the season.

This coming season is a mulligan. It will be more of a season for the coaching staff to gel and get clicking on all cylinders.

If they show drastic improvements toward the end of the season with dump bodies, there is hope.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Disagree with UVA. Since Pitino started as coach, he didn't land one top 25 class. UVA has had 3, on top of having a top 10 class. One elite class like UVA pulled in basically won them the title. UVA's overall numbers are drastically skewed because during that stretch they had two 2 man classes somehow.
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BADGER is a fraud.
 


As I posted on another thread, Doogie was on Skor North the other day. Among other "scoops" on Gopher hoops, he said Gabe K decided to leave the U in January, and that ship had sailed long before Johnson was hired. No reflection on BJ -just wanted to get the bleep out of MN. Also said BJ was not upset about some of the transfers because "they weren't B1G players." Specifically mentioned Mitchell and Freeman.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
As I posted on another thread, Doogie was on Skor North the other day. Among other "scoops" on Gopher hoops, he said Gabe K decided to leave the U in January, and that ship had sailed long before Johnson was hired. No reflection on BJ -just wanted to get the bleep out of MN. Also said BJ was not upset about some of the transfers because "they weren't B1G players." Specifically mentioned Mitchell and Freeman.
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I guess he did take it personally then. No need for a coach/teacher to say "you werent xxxxx material" after they leave

I can't think of any respected coach saying that about any former players
 

jamiche said:
I'm fatigued by the recent run of overly optimistic preseason predictions for MN sports teams. In the last couple of years there have been lofty expectations, even assumptions, for the Vikings, Twins, Timberwolves (playoffs, here we come!), Lynx and gopher hoops.

I'm not known for my excessive optimism on this board, so I have some credibility for what I'm about to say.

Maybe the team that Johnson is scrambling to put together for one year will be better than people think. If he can get them to play defense and really move the ball, that will partially compensate for a lack of talent. Pitino never took defense seriously and never prioritized ball movement. I think last year's team was last in the NCAA's in 3pt shooting %. Even a small uptick would make a difference. So, some defense, some ball movement and some three's. (None of which we had last year.) Maybe you have something.
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Great post. Pitino's teams couldn't shoot nor rebound...and it's not all recruiting...it's teaching. They also got worse as the year wore on. I'd be happy to watch a losing team that played the best game they could with the natural talents they have. I love to watch smart hustling teams...even if they lose.
 

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