Hypothetical question...

[Gold Rush]

Everyone has been weighing in on whether Coyle should terminate Pitino's contract at the end of the year - thought I would throw this one out there.

What if Oturu came out and said he would stick around for another year if Pitino stays, would you be inclined to keep Pitino?
This is sort of like "Jimmy Chitwood" from Hoosiers.

I would be inclined to keep him for another year and see if he could get the program righted, but otherwise no. You would also be bringing in Mashburn who you undoubtedly lose if Pitino leaves, too. Would this matter to others on here??? If Oturu leaves, this would be a great time to bring in some new blood to coach and see if Coyle can work his hiring magic once again.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Answering a hypothetical question with a question: on what should one base a hiring/firing decision? 7 years of past performance or one singular statement or decision by one player?

 

[bc2211]

I would be really intrigued by the roster going into next year, but what about the following year (see Bad’s post above)? I’m leaning towards rebuild after the letdown of this season.

 

[bga1]

Answering a hypothetical question with a question: on what should one base a hiring/firing decision? 7 years of past performance or one singular statement or decision by one player?

Neither. Both are data points. What you look at is where the program is right now and what you have in a coach right now and what the future prospects look like. There are a lot of factors at hand here. The age of the coach and his improvement in key areas is important here. This is also an academic institution and off court performance has hit an all time high. Coyle is going to compare where Pitino is at right now versus what he can get by starting over. He may well decide to start over, and at this point I am guessing that he does- but it isn't quite like you think. Coyle isn't stupid enough to be sitting in his office screaming 47-80 like some here do. Right now we are about a half dozen free throws from being an 8 seed and in the tournament for the third year out of four. He has not gotten it done but that's the truth of the matter.

The roster is still deficient of depth and that is indeed on Pitino. On the other hand one can consider how this year might have played out with Coffey and Curry. I'd guess we might be playing for a Big Ten championship. That's how thin the line is.

 

[Roland Brooks]

This is sort of like "Jimmy Chitwood" from Hoosiers

Quit stealing my yesterday’s material.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Neither. Both are data points. What you look at is where the program is right now and what you have in a coach right now and what the future prospects look like. There are a lot of factors at hand here. The age of the coach and his improvement in key areas is important here. This is also an academic institution and off court performance has hit an all time high. Coyle is going to compare where Pitino is at right now versus what he can get by starting over. He may well decide to start over, and at this point I am guessing that he does- but it isn't quite like you think. Coyle isn't stupid enough to be sitting in his office screaming 47-80 like some here do. Right now we are about a half dozen free throws from being an 8 seed and in the tournament for the third year out of four. He has not gotten it done but that's the truth of the matter.

The roster is still deficient of depth and that is indeed on Pitino. On the other hand one can consider how this year might have played out with Coffey and Curry. I'd guess we might be playing for a Big Ten championship. That's how thin the line is.

Seven years of past performance is a data point to you?

 

[bga1]

I would be really intrigued by the roster going into next year, but what about the following year (see Bad’s post above)? I’m leaning towards rebuild after the letdown of this season.

Two years from now?
Carr
Mashburn
Gabe/Williams
Ihnen
Freeman/Mitchell

That's not a bad start. Unlike some others here, I like Freeman. Tough kid, who will hit the boards. He will have a solid career.

I recall at the start of the year, a lot of people here, most of them the Pitino haters, thought this was a dumpster roster that would have a tough time winning 5-6 games. The graduation of Murphy and the late loss of Coffey and Curry was going to kill us on the boards and we would be soft and weak. Gabe was the only known commodity. Instead we have competed well on the boards, Oturu has been better than expected as has Carr while Kalscheur has had a really, really tough year. We have been in nearly every game to the end. You just never know.

 

[salzie]

Simply put no, no player should be above the program.

I wish Pitino the best in his future, but it's not working here. Had he gotten us to the tourney again this year, I'd be on board with keeping him

 

[bga1]

Seven years of past performance is a data point to you?

Yep. I look at what I have today as more important. The 7 years of Pitino is not far off of the last 45 years here by the way. His last three years are at or above that average. This is a tough program to get going. That said, I like Pitino, but there are certainly some reasons here that would make me move on. Other reasons would have me stay the course. I trust Coyle to understand what he has and what the alternatives are.

If he splits the next two games he will be at .42 winning percentage the past four years. Not good. Monson was at .39. Tubby at .42. Clem's first 7 years at .42- none of the rest of Clem's years ended up counting.

 

[GopherJack]

Two years from now?
Carr
Mashburn
Gabe/Williams
Ihnen
Freeman/Mitchell

That's not a bad start. Unlike some others here, I like Freeman. Tough kid, who will hit the boards. He will have a solid career.

I recall at the start of the year, a lot of people here, most of them the Pitino haters, thought this was a dumpster roster that would have a tough time winning 5-6 games. The graduation of Murphy and the late loss of Coffey and Curry was going to kill us on the boards and we would be soft and weak. Gabe was the only known commodity. Instead we have competed well on the boards, Oturu has been better than expected as has Carr while Kalscheur has had a really, really tough year. We have been in nearly every game to the end. You just never know.

My fear with Kalscheur is that his freshman year was the exception and this year is the norm that we will see the next two years. HOPE I'M WRONG.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Yep. I look at what I have today as more important. The 7 years of Pitino is not far off of the last 45 years here by the way. His last three years are at or above that average. This is a tough program to get going. That said, I like Pitino, but there are certainly some reasons here that would make me move on. Other reasons would have me stay the course. I trust Coyle to understand what he has and what the alternatives are.

More of the same is not what Coyle expects.

 

[bga1]

My fear with Kalscheur is that his freshman year was the exception and this year is the norm that we will see the next two years. HOPE I'M WRONG.

Me too. I think he is a really good 20- 25 minute per game player as a shooting threat. He lacks athleticism and he has to outwork everyone else on the court to keep up. His work ethic is tremendous as is shown by his defense. He just isn't very quick nor does he have lift. If he plays less, I'd guess his shot returns next year. Who ever is the coach needs to get a couple more 2/3 guys that can fill it up a little.

 

[SelectionSunday]

Any AD that would make a decision based on that shouldn't be an AD, at any level.

 

[bga1]

More of the same is not what Coyle expects.

And if that's what he thinks he will get from Pitino, then he will move on. I expect that he will move on and I am guessing that the number one reason will be the fans and not his assessment of Pitino's ability to get it done. Once you lose the fans it become 10 times tougher and I am afraid that's where it is at.

 

[bga1]

Any AD that would make a decision based on that shouldn't be an AD, at any level.

I appreciate your opinion.

 

[Gold Rush]

Neither. Both are data points. What you look at is where the program is right now and what you have in a coach right now and what the future prospects look like. There are a lot of factors at hand here. The age of the coach and his improvement in key areas is important here. This is also an academic institution and off court performance has hit an all time high. Coyle is going to compare where Pitino is at right now versus what he can get by starting over. He may well decide to start over, and at this point I am guessing that he does- but it isn't quite like you think. Coyle isn't stupid enough to be sitting in his office screaming 47-80 like some here do. Right now we are about a half dozen free throws from being an 8 seed and in the tournament for the third year out of four. He has not gotten it done but that's the truth of the matter.

The roster is still deficient of depth and that is indeed on Pitino. On the other hand one can consider how this year might have played out with Coffey and Curry. I'd guess we might be playing for a Big Ten championship. That's how thin the line is.

My guess is this is what Pitino will use to show he needs more time. He will say he is really close to competing for the Big Ten championship and making a run in the NCAA tournament - he is just a player or two away and he has some good players coming in next year's class.

Other factors weighing in though are his poor won-loss record especially in the Big Ten, continued last minute meltdowns, and declining attendance. As you stated, lack of depth in year 7 is a major factor. So I think it comes down to where you see the program right now and where it will be in 3 more years. If Oturu leaves, it sure looks like more of the same and a program that is just spinning its wheels. That is why I continue to say this would be a good time to fire Pitino and move on, especially if Coyle has someone good ready to step in.

 

[BarnBurner]

My guess is this is what Pitino will use to show he needs more time. He will say he is really close to competing for the Big Ten championship and making a run in the NCAA tournament - he is just a player or two away and he has some good players coming in next year's class.

Other factors weighing in though are his poor won-loss record especially in the Big Ten, continued last minute meltdowns, and declining attendance. As you stated, lack of depth in year 7 is a major factor. So I think it comes down to where you see the program right now and where it will be in 3 more years. If Oturu leaves, it sure looks like more of the same and a program that is just spinning its wheels. That is why I continue to say this would be a good time to fire Pitino and move on, especially if Coyle has someone good ready to step in.

I think we are about to see if the MN job is really sought after, or if continues the trend of being a job that has to go below the top 3-4 candidates.

 

[ltf]

Two years from now?
Carr
Mashburn
Gabe/Williams
Ihnen
Freeman/Mitchell

That's not a bad start. Unlike some others here, I like Freeman. Tough kid, who will hit the boards. He will have a solid career.

I recall at the start of the year, a lot of people here, most of them the Pitino haters, thought this was a dumpster roster that would have a tough time winning 5-6 games. The graduation of Murphy and the late loss of Coffey and Curry was going to kill us on the boards and we would be soft and weak. Gabe was the only known commodity. Instead we have competed well on the boards, Oturu has been better than expected as has Carr while Kalscheur has had a really, really tough year. We have been in nearly every game to the end. You just never know.

Well said.

My guess is this is what Pitino will use to show he needs more time. He will say he is really close to competing for the Big Ten championship and making a run in the NCAA tournament - he is just a player or two away and he has some good players coming in next year's class.

Other factors weighing in though are his poor won-loss record especially in the Big Ten, continued last minute meltdowns, and declining attendance. As you stated, lack of depth in year 7 is a major factor. So I think it comes down to where you see the program right now and where it will be in 3 more years. If Oturu leaves, it sure looks like more of the same and a program that is just spinning its wheels. That is why I continue to say this would be a good time to fire Pitino and move on, especially if Coyle has someone good ready to step in.

I like Pitino's coaching so want him to stay. However, if Oturu leaves and Coyle sees that recruiting is not moving forward, then might be time to look elsewhere.

 

[SelectionSunday]

Looking at it from the outside, Oturu leaving would seem to make it a completely logical time to cut bait. The problem there is, if Oturu doesn't make an immediate decision after the season is over, then we're looking at going through the evaluation process like Coffey did last year, with the chance of losing Oturu well after the season is over, and well after most other schools have hired their coaches. Not ideal.

All that said, I would imagine Pitino and Oturu (and Coyle) have had lengthy discussions about what his plans are. There seems to be a better player-coach dynamic with Oturu than there was with Coffey. Pitino probably already knows whether he'll need to add a high-impact (starter) 4 or 5 for next season, one for which he'd certainly be sitting on a very warm seat.

Quite frankly, without Oturu the Gophers appear headed toward another Weakling Wednesday appearance in 2020-21 (and perhaps even with him, if we're honest about our returning roster), no matter who the coach is, and even if the current non-seniors all return and both incoming freshmen stick with their commitments.

 

[MplsGopher]

Looking at it from the outside, Oturu leaving would seem to make it a completely logical time to cut bait. The problem there is, if Oturu doesn't make an immediate decision after the season is over, then we're looking at going through the evaluation part of the process like Coffey did last year, with the chance of losing Oturu well after the season is over, and well after most other schools have hired their coaches. Not ideal.

All that said, I would imagine Pitino and Oturu have had lengthy discussions about what his plans are. There seems to be a better player-coach dynamic with Oturu than there was with Coffey. Pitino probably already knows whether he'll need to add a high-impact (starter) 4 or 5 for next season.

Maybe Curry will have a miraculous recovery with a weight drop, and rotate with Omersa, Ihnen, and Freeman.

 

[BarnBurner]

Looking at it from the outside, Oturu leaving would seem to make it a completely logical time to cut bait. The problem there is, if Oturu doesn't make an immediate decision after the season is over, then we're looking at going through the evaluation part of the process like Coffey did last year, with the chance of losing Oturu well after the season is over, and well after most other schools have hired their coaches. Not ideal.

All that said, I would imagine Pitino and Oturu have had lengthy discussions about what his plans are. There seems to be a better player-coach dynamic with Oturu than there was with Coffey. Pitino probably already knows whether he'll need to add a high-impact (starter) 4 or 5 for next season.

Quite frankly, without Oturu the Gophers appear headed toward another Weakling Wednesday appearance in 2020-21.

No problem at all. Unless you don't trust the AD.

 

[USAF]

Right now we are about a half dozen free throws from being an 8 seed

Hahahahaha
Hahahahahahahaha

Good one.

 

[scools12]

There is no depth on the team this year and that is unlikely to change next year. Oturu leaving makes it even worse.

Mashburn will get some minutes but are the expectations he will be a huge impact immediately? I wouldn't expect too much from him to begin with and the other recruit Mitchell is a project. Seems the Gophers would need a whole lot of things to go right for the depth to improve.

Say Oturu and Ptinio return is the team that much better next year considering the roster as a whole? I would say it's still a bubble team.

The question the AD should be asking himself is where is this program headed if anywhere under the current coach not what should happen based on the decision of one player.

 

[bga1]

Hahahahaha
Hahahahahahahaha

Good one.

So good that it is true. Oturu had a one and one against Iowa that he missed and would have taken the gave into OT with Garza gone. Yes it should not have come down to that, but it happened.
Maryland - we missed a bunch of FTs down the stretch that would have clinched it. Carr at the line with 12 seconds to get us up 4 and game over.
Wisky we were 13-23 with misses down the stretch that cost us. So yes- if we were 10-8 right now we would be favored to be 11-9 and we would be in the dance and very likely an 8 seed or in that range.

 

[USAF]

So good that it is true. Oturu had a one and one against Iowa that he missed and would have taken the gave into OT with Garza gone. Yes it should not have come down to that, but it happened.
Maryland - we missed a bunch of FTs down the stretch that would have clinched it. Carr at the line with 12 seconds to get us up 4 and game over.
Wisky we were 13-23 with misses down the stretch that cost us. So yes- if we were 10-8 right now we would be favored to be 11-9 and we would be in the dance and very likely an 8 seed or in that range.

You deserve Pitino and another 7 years of .350 basketball.

After which you'll still be telling yourself "if this," and " if that," and "unlucky this," and "damn refs" the other. "Just wait'll next year, when we get those two recruits!" Blah blah blah.

 

[bga1]

You deserve Pitino and another 7 years of .350 basketball.

After which you'll still be telling yourself "if this," and " if that," and "unlucky this," and "damn refs" the other. "Just wait'll next year, when we get those two recruits!" Blah blah blah.

I support this coach and I will support the next one. I am a Gopher fan. I am not against letting this one go once the season is over. It's a tough job and there are no guarantees. I hate starting over but if that's what the AD thinks is best and he has a better option- then I am all for it.

I know that positive talk from a Gopher fan just kills you though. We have this coach because about 9 others turned us down. He was a play for long term potential-which might well have been a mistake in a league this tough.

I have been a huge fan since the Musselman years and beyond and have had season tickets for about 40 of the last 50 years. For that I deserve a kick in the face from a fair weather fan like you.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Seven years of past performance is a data point to you?

I was just going to say. . . that's not a point of data. That is a graph.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I support this coach and I will support the next one. I am a Gopher fan. I am not against letting this one go once the season is over. It's a tough job and there are no guarantees. I hate starting over but if that's what the AD thinks is best and he has a better option- then I am all for it.

I know that positive talk from a Gopher fan just kills you though. We have this coach because about 9 others turned us down. He was a play for long term potential-which might well have been a mistake in a league this tough.

I have been a huge fan since the Musselman years and beyond and have had season tickets for about 40 of the last 50 years. For that I deserve a kick in the face from a fair weather fan like you.

Honest question - did you support moving on from Tubby?

 

[benlaur]

Yep. I look at what I have today as more important. The 7 years of Pitino is not far off of the last 45 years here by the way. His last three years are at or above that average. This is a tough program to get going. That said, I like Pitino, but there are certainly some reasons here that would make me move on. Other reasons would have me stay the course. I trust Coyle to understand what he has and what the alternatives are.

If he splits the next two games he will be at .42 winning percentage the past four years. Not good. Monson was at .39. Tubby at .42. Clem's first 7 years at .42- none of the rest of Clem's years ended up counting.

BGA, there are no ways to slice the numbers to make them look good (I think that is your point?). You are comparing Pitino to two other coaches who were fired for performance.

Tubby's last year he had a 44% winning % in conference and a 61% overall record. The coach that replaced him seven years later has 39% conference winning % and 46% overall winning % in the current year.

However you look at it, the numbers do not look good, to say differently would be disingenuous for anyone. Are there other mitigating factors? All coaches have mitigating factors, so numerically over an almost decade stretch, they even out. If Pitino continues to be supported by the program, past performance will not be the reason and I don't expect Pitino would be making that case either.

The question that needs to be asked is, all things considered, does the future look like one that will meet the expectations of the program (on and off the court)? I assume AD has certain expectations and if the coach is delivering on them and it looks like he will continue delivering or begin to deliver on them, keep him, if not, let him go. I am fine either way given that there is a very comprehensive review and that the program has crystal clear expectations internally.

 

[Flash30]

Everyone has been weighing in on whether Coyle should terminate Pitino's contract at the end of the year - thought I would throw this one out there.

What if Oturu came out and said he would stick around for another year if Pitino stays, would you be inclined to keep Pitino?
This is sort of like "Jimmy Chitwood" from Hoosiers.

I would be inclined to keep him for another year and see if he could get the program righted, but otherwise no. You would also be bringing in Mashburn who you undoubtedly lose if Pitino leaves, too. Would this matter to others on here??? If Oturu leaves, this would be a great time to bring in some new blood to coach and see if Coyle can work his hiring magic once again.

Is this jimmy chitwood? Coach stays I play, he goes I go. Nvm I didn’t read the entire post. You already covered it.