Hypothetical question...

Is this jimmy chitwood? Coach stays I play, he goes I go.

Jimmy Chitwood was a chucker, his shot chart sucked in the pre-3pt line era. Buddy was really the glue of that team. He brought the ball up and guarded 1-4.
 

Everyone has been weighing in on whether Coyle should terminate Pitino's contract at the end of the year - thought I would throw this one out there.

What if Oturu came out and said he would stick around for another year if Pitino stays, would you be inclined to keep Pitino?
This is sort of like "Jimmy Chitwood" from Hoosiers.

I would be inclined to keep him for another year and see if he could get the program righted, but otherwise no. You would also be bringing in Mashburn who you undoubtedly lose if Pitino leaves, too. Would this matter to others on here??? If Oturu leaves, this would be a great time to bring in some new blood to coach and see if Coyle can work his hiring magic once again.

I posted something similar last week in comparing this team to Michigan 10 years ago. They stuck with Bilien and were fantastic after that mediocre season. That's a tough question. I doubt Outru sticks around though. He has to be a to 20 NBA draft pick. He just keeps getting better. I think we should move on from Pitino
 

My answer is no. Chitwood won the Indiana state basketball championship and beat the South Bend Bears. Oturu is not going to carry this team to a National championship nor is Gabe going to make two granny style free throws in the final four.
 

BGA, there are no ways to slice the numbers to make them look good (I think that is your point?). You are comparing Pitino to two other coaches who were fired for performance.

Tubby's last year he had a 44% winning % in conference and a 61% overall record. The coach that replaced him seven years later has 39% conference winning % and 46% overall winning % in the current year.

However you look at it, the numbers do not look good, to say differently would be disingenuous for anyone. Are there other mitigating factors? All coaches have mitigating factors, so numerically over an almost decade stretch, they even out. If Pitino continues to be supported by the program, past performance will not be the reason and I don't expect Pitino would be making that case either.

The question that needs to be asked is, all things considered, does the future look like one that will meet the expectations of the program (on and off the court)? I assume AD has certain expectations and if the coach is delivering on them and it looks like he will continue delivering or begin to deliver on them, keep him, if not, let him go. I am fine either way given that there is a very comprehensive review and that the program has crystal clear expectations internally.
Good post. I don't think that the current coach is doing well enough for any of us to be satisfied. I'm not. I bleed through these games. The point is that really, no one has done well enough, without cheating, in the last 50 years. Dutcher was solid but other than the Big Ten Championship year, his results weren't terrific either. It has been tough and it is well known that the job is a coach killer and that locals, for the most part don't love the program or the city campus much. IF we could ever get some momentum in this town all of that might change.
We need a long term coach and a winner. At this point there is a good chance that Pitino is not that guy because he has lost the fans. I think he has the ability and could still do it here and he has shown improvement. At 37 years old, he is still very young to have a job like this. But he needed to get some wind at his back and he has not been able to get it, whether it be a break here or there (injuries, Carr not getting to play last year, Coffey leaving early, the Lynch year) he just hasn't seem to catch one.
 

Honest question - did you support moving on from Tubby?
I did. I think with him, it was obvious that the players had tired of him and he had tired of the job. He was a great coach but he just wasn't recruiting anymore and seemed to have lost a lot of interest in the whole process. To me, although they got to the tourney and got a win that year, it seemed that the trend was downward. Pitino's results are certainly no better and some would say they are worse but to me there is a feeling that he is coaching better (despite the talk here) has a better staff and has found a groove as far as recruiting kids with character. He certainly has room for improvement in all areas but, he is also 37 years old and not 65.

With Tubby, that seemed to be a great spot to move on since they got to the tournament, so there was something to sell potential coaches and he had nothing for quality young players or recruits coming in.
Currently with Pitino, we have a young team and a couple of kids coming that I would hate to lose.

All that said, past results are lousy, we are losing the close games and he is totally a coach you could fire. Is he a year away from having a year like Chambers is having at PSU in year 9 after not going to the tournament his first 8 years? I don't know. Can we get a coach to come here that can turn it around? I don't know. In the past we haven't.

I was thrilled when Tubby was hired. Finally, a sure thing! Once he started to lose energy, (maybe he got ticked off about the Royce White deal, I don't know) then my fear became him failing here and us becoming branded as the school that EVEN TUBBY SMITH, hall of fame coach could not succeed at. And that was how it was because we could not get any of our top targets to come on board. Maybe it was because our AD stunk, but this is known as a tough, tough job.
 


Good post. I don't think that the current coach is doing well enough for any of us to be satisfied. I'm not. I bleed through these games. The point is that really, no one has done well enough, without cheating, in the last 50 years. Dutcher was solid but other than the Big Ten Championship year, his results weren't terrific either. It has been tough and it is well known that the job is a coach killer and that locals, for the most part don't love the program or the city campus much. IF we could ever get some momentum in this town all of that might change.
We need a long term coach and a winner. At this point there is a good chance that Pitino is not that guy because he has lost the fans. I think he has the ability and could still do it here and he has shown improvement. At 37 years old, he is still very young to have a job like this. But he needed to get some wind at his back and he has not been able to get it, whether it be a break here or there (injuries, Carr not getting to play last year, Coffey leaving early, the Lynch year) he just hasn't seem to catch one.

Agree with most of everything you said, but don't throw shade on Dutcher - he was a good guy and a good coach. Not fair to say other than the Big Ten championship year, his results weren't terrific, either. In addition to the Big ten championship year, he had two second place finishes too. His second year he finished 24-3 that was a spectacular team that couldn't play in the tournament due to violations. And that team had two guys (Paul Landsberger and Mark Olberding) who left for the NBA who could have played, too. Even Mychal Thompson went on to say - "That was one of the greatest college basketball teams of all time. If those two had played on our team, who would have stopped us?"

This was done when Minnesota would have MAYBE one D-1 recruit a year, too. I would definitely take his results over anything that we have had since, that's for sure!!
 

Agree with most of everything you said, but don't throw shade on Dutcher - he was a good guy and a good coach. Not fair to say other than the Big Ten championship year, his results weren't terrific, either. In addition to the Big ten championship year, he had two second place finishes too. His second year he finished 24-3 that was a spectacular team that couldn't play in the tournament due to violations. And that team had two guys (Paul Landsberger and Mark Olberding) who left for the NBA who could have played, too. Even Mychal Thompson went on to say - "That was one of the greatest college basketball teams of all time. If those two had played on our team, who would have stopped us?"

This was done when Minnesota would have MAYBE one D-1 recruit a year, too. I would definitely take his results over anything that we have had since, that's for sure!!
Not throwing shade at Dutch. Great man and really a pretty solid recruiter in an age where local basketball here was pretty bad, save for the annual 7 footer. His second year , we was working with Mussy recruits. Ray Williams, Thompson, Landsberger, Winey, Lockhart all came from Mussy. What an amazing group. Dutch almost always played the zone with a 7 footer under the bucket.
 

Two years from now?
Carr
Mashburn
Gabe/Williams
Ihnen
Freeman/Mitchell

That's not a bad start. Unlike some others here, I like Freeman. Tough kid, who will hit the boards. He will have a solid career.

I recall at the start of the year, a lot of people here, most of them the Pitino haters, thought this was a dumpster roster that would have a tough time winning 5-6 games. The graduation of Murphy and the late loss of Coffey and Curry was going to kill us on the boards and we would be soft and weak. Gabe was the only known commodity. Instead we have competed well on the boards, Oturu has been better than expected as has Carr while Kalscheur has had a really, really tough year. We have been in nearly every game to the end. You just never know.
5-6 B1G wins and 12-14 wins overall was the worst case scenario, yes. They've won 7 and 13 with 2 left. Wow. What an over-performance!
 

Not throwing shade at Dutch. Great man and really a pretty solid recruiter in an age where local basketball here was pretty bad, save for the annual 7 footer. His second year , we was working with Mussy recruits. Ray Williams, Thompson, Landsberger, Winey, Lockhart all came from Mussy. What an amazing group. Dutch almost always played the zone with a 7 footer under the bucket.
Not to get too far off topic here but that was the first year I followed Gopher basketball and man was that fun! It was just a different game though. If Bobby Knight had a 5 point lead with 10 mins left in the game it was all over. He would go in the 4 corner stall and pass 10 mins away until they were fouled and of course all his guys shot about 90 per cent free throws. The shot clock and 3 point line really helped the game!

Ray Christensen was an outstanding announcer - loved that guy!!
 




5-6 B1G wins and 12-14 wins overall was the worst case scenario, yes. They've won 7 and 13 with 2 left. Wow. What an over-performance!
I think everyone would agree though, that this team should have closed out 11 wins plus. They essentially put themselves into the position where they should be an 11 win team now and for whatever reasons- players choking at the free throw line or coaching we didn't seal the deal. Very few thought that at the start of the season that we would have been this close to being a pretty good club.
 

I'm just not convinced we can attract a top coach to come to Minnesota. We fire Pitino and replace him with another similar level coach. We are like the Timberwolves prior to getting Spreewell and The other guy. Good enough to get so far but not good enough to really make anyone notice. Look at what the football team had to do just to get on GameDay!

I think we will wind up with either a good D5 coach who has fallen out of favor or an up and coming coach who has yet to prove his chops and still be stuck here at the same level. Need a good X and O coach with some Jimmy Williams level recruiters to get the talent.
 

I'm just not convinced we can attract a top coach to come to Minnesota. We fire Pitino and replace him with another similar level coach. We are like the Timberwolves prior to getting Spreewell and The other guy. Good enough to get so far but not good enough to really make anyone notice. Look at what the football team had to do just to get on GameDay!

I think we will wind up with either a good D5 coach who has fallen out of favor or an up and coming coach who has yet to prove his chops and still be stuck here at the same level. Need a good X and O coach with some Jimmy Williams level recruiters to get the talent.
I have said this over and over, why do people not believe that Coyle will bring in a great coach? He has proven in basically every single hire he has made to hit a HR (or at minimum the best person we could get for the job at the time). I believe this is exactly the sentiment we had before PJF. "we cant get anyone good to come to lowly ol Minnesota, just stick with Claeys" Why ? We are the only D1 school in the state, we have brand new facilities, a solid fan base, a great conference, a crazy good recruiting base. I can't imagine there are a ton of negatives around the program outside of a lack of true sustained success in the past, which if we are being honest might help, we arent a Texas type place that expects to win 28 games a year. That takes some pressure off a new coach.

Fleck has just brought a new energy and need to embrace that motto of "who cares about the past 80 years, we are here now, we can win, we can be a power". I see zero reason this cant directly translate to a new direction for the bball program. And remember when PJ got here Johnson was leaving, Winfield was never playing another down for us, Coughlin thought about moving on, guess what, IT WORKED OUT. Who's to say a new coach doesnt get Oturu fired up, maybe mashburn would love him, maybe Ihnen would turn into a monster, maybe Carr would be happier, no one actually knows those answers.
 



Good post. I don't think that the current coach is doing well enough for any of us to be satisfied. I'm not. I bleed through these games. The point is that really, no one has done well enough, without cheating, in the last 50 years. Dutcher was solid but other than the Big Ten Championship year, his results weren't terrific either. It has been tough and it is well known that the job is a coach killer and that locals, for the most part don't love the program or the city campus much. IF we could ever get some momentum in this town all of that might change.
We need a long term coach and a winner. At this point there is a good chance that Pitino is not that guy because he has lost the fans. I think he has the ability and could still do it here and he has shown improvement. At 37 years old, he is still very young to have a job like this. But he needed to get some wind at his back and he has not been able to get it, whether it be a break here or there (injuries, Carr not getting to play last year, Coffey leaving early, the Lynch year) he just hasn't seem to catch one.
I don't believe the job is a coach killer. The prior two coaches had poor records, the prior many had pretty good records. Perhaps the prior two and the current one simply did not do a good job all things considered. Tubby was hired on the condition of a practice facility, so he can at least point to that as an administrative/competitive let down. Monson's hiring came on the heels of enormous sanctions.

If you have the support of the admin and good facilities, then it is up to you to figure it out. Hopefully Coyle and company do a comprehensive review and take in a lot of data points. However, I think it is silly to say their is some barrier to winning, unless you can point to something other than the prior two coaches. I am not "for" or "against" Pitino. I am for taking in a ton of information and giving the program and the kids the greatest chance at success on and off the court.
 

So good that it is true. Oturu had a one and one against Iowa that he missed and would have taken the gave into OT with Garza gone. Yes it should not have come down to that, but it happened.
Maryland - we missed a bunch of FTs down the stretch that would have clinched it. Carr at the line with 12 seconds to get us up 4 and game over.
Wisky we were 13-23 with misses down the stretch that cost us. So yes- if we were 10-8 right now we would be favored to be 11-9 and we would be in the dance and very likely an 8 seed or in that range.

I guess it is your hypothetical and you set the parameters any way you want, but it is worth noting that it is flawed logic to say in a hypothetical that Team A's performance can be increased by x over what they actually did and all other teams involved in the hypothetical remain constant to their actual outcome.

Your hypothetical is just as useful as saying "What if in our 13 wins, our performance had remained the same, but our opponents had made 3 more free throws and 2 more 3 pointers?"
 

Back to the OP: if the Gophers allowed one player to dictate a decision on hiring or firing a coach, they would be the laughing-stock of college hoops.

If Oturu walked into Coyle's office and said "I won't come back if you fire Pitino," I would hope that Coyle's response would be "Thank you for your contributions to the U of MN. Good luck in the NBA."

You cannot allow a player to dictate other personnel decisions. this is not the NBA. this is a college team.

And - if Oturu says "I'll come back if Pitino is the coach," that's likely going to be for one year tops. and what happens after that?

Nope. Bad idea. can't do it.
 

I don't believe the job is a coach killer. The prior two coaches had poor records, the prior many had pretty good records. Perhaps the prior two and the current one simply did not do a good job all things considered. Tubby was hired on the condition of a practice facility, so he can at least point to that as an administrative/competitive let down. Monson's hiring came on the heels of enormous sanctions.

If you have the support of the admin and good facilities, then it is up to you to figure it out. Hopefully Coyle and company do a comprehensive review and take in a lot of data points. However, I think it is silly to say their is some barrier to winning, unless you can point to something other than the prior two coaches. I am not "for" or "against" Pitino. I am for taking in a ton of information and giving the program and the kids the greatest chance at success on and off the court.

The prior two coaches had some success after they left here too. Monson had some good years at Long Beach and Tubby did well at TT and was ok at Memphis, just ran into perception issue. I'm willing to bet Richard would do well once he leaves here with the knowledge he's gained. It's been a coach killer for a long time. That doesn't mean it can't be turned around, but we will need to find out lightening in a bottle.
 

The prior two coaches had some success after they left here too. Monson had some good years at Long Beach and Tubby did well at TT and was ok at Memphis, just ran into perception issue. I'm willing to bet Richard would do well once he leaves here with the knowledge he's gained. It's been a coach killer for a long time. That doesn't mean it can't be turned around, but we will need to find out lightening in a bottle.
As Fleck has talked about at length, it's hard to turn around without a change in underlying culture, and much of that is the fatalistic and corrosive attitudes of fans and media.
 

I guess it is your hypothetical and you set the parameters any way you want, but it is worth noting that it is flawed logic to say in a hypothetical that Team A's performance can be increased by x over what they actually did and all other teams involved in the hypothetical remain constant to their actual outcome.

Your hypothetical is just as useful as saying "What if in our 13 wins, our performance had remained the same, but our opponents had made 3 more free throws and 2 more 3 pointers?"
If we had 13 wins everyone would be saying Pitino turned the corner regardless of how it happened.
He would be Big Ten coach of the year (again) and signing a new deal. Essentially you make my point- there is a really fine line between the coach everyone hates and the coach everyone loves. It might be a key injury or a healthy club, it might be a few missed or made shots or free throws. Had we won the last two games the conversations here would be much different and of course a few of these posters would not be partaking in them in that case.

Everything about our situation is hypothetical so I guess everyone can propose their own.

The facts are:
1. Pitino has been close in a lot of ways to having success (close losses, competitive teams these past 4 years including the single most unlucky season I have seen a coach have) but the record shows he has not succeeded at a level anyone is satisfied with.
2. In the past 45 years we have not been successful in hiring basketball coaches that bring prolonged winning here.
3. We all want to win. Everyone has their own opinion on how to go forward.
 

Agree with most of everything you said, but don't throw shade on Dutcher - he was a good guy and a good coach. Not fair to say other than the Big Ten championship year, his results weren't terrific, either. In addition to the Big ten championship year, he had two second place finishes too. His second year he finished 24-3 that was a spectacular team that couldn't play in the tournament due to violations. And that team had two guys (Paul Landsberger and Mark Olberding) who left for the NBA who could have played, too. Even Mychal Thompson went on to say - "That was one of the greatest college basketball teams of all time. If those two had played on our team, who would have stopped us?"

This was done when Minnesota would have MAYBE one D-1 recruit a year, too. I would definitely take his results over anything that we have had since, that's for sure!!

Dutcher was easily the best coach... like forever here. Musselman was the best basketball mind, etc.. but he cheated. Clem had the successful tourney visits, but he cheated and it was easier to get into the tourney than in Dutchers time here.
 

If we had 13 wins everyone would be saying Pitino turned the corner regardless of how it happened.
He would be Big Ten coach of the year (again) and signing a new deal. Essentially you make my point- there is a really fine line between the coach everyone hates and the coach everyone loves. It might be a key injury or a healthy club, it might be a few missed or made shots or free throws. Had we won the last two games the conversations here would be much different and of course a few of these posters would not be partaking in them in that case.

Everything about our situation is hypothetical so I guess everyone can propose their own.

The facts are:
1. Pitino has been close in a lot of ways to having success (close losses, competitive teams these past 4 years including the single most unlucky season I have seen a coach have) but the record shows he has not succeeded at a level anyone is satisfied with.
2. In the past 45 years we have not been successful in hiring basketball coaches that bring prolonged winning here.
3. We all want to win. Everyone has their own opinion on how to go forward.
It's not a fine line. He's 34 games under .500 in the B1G. The line is a mile wide.
 

I did. I think with him, it was obvious that the players had tired of him and he had tired of the job. He was a great coach but he just wasn't recruiting anymore and seemed to have lost a lot of interest in the whole process. To me, although they got to the tourney and got a win that year, it seemed that the trend was downward. Pitino's results are certainly no better and some would say they are worse but to me there is a feeling that he is coaching better (despite the talk here) has a better staff and has found a groove as far as recruiting kids with character. He certainly has room for improvement in all areas but, he is also 37 years old and not 65.

With Tubby, that seemed to be a great spot to move on since they got to the tournament, so there was something to sell potential coaches and he had nothing for quality young players or recruits coming in.
Currently with Pitino, we have a young team and a couple of kids coming that I would hate to lose.

All that said, past results are lousy, we are losing the close games and he is totally a coach you could fire. Is he a year away from having a year like Chambers is having at PSU in year 9 after not going to the tournament his first 8 years? I don't know. Can we get a coach to come here that can turn it around? I don't know. In the past we haven't.

I was thrilled when Tubby was hired. Finally, a sure thing! Once he started to lose energy, (maybe he got ticked off about the Royce White deal, I don't know) then my fear became him failing here and us becoming branded as the school that EVEN TUBBY SMITH, hall of fame coach could not succeed at. And that was how it was because we could not get any of our top targets to come on board. Maybe it was because our AD stunk, but this is known as a tough, tough job.


From the outside, it appears as if you think Pitino is a good coach despite the results. Like we aren't seeing something you're seeing and the results will finally come together. It's certainly plausible, it's happened to a lot of coaches.

However, what would it take to get you to think he should be fired?

What if we finish 11th or worse next year in conference?

My guess is that you're going to argue that we shouldn't expect anything next year, so we'll give him another pass.

So lets go to 2021-2022: Is that a year he HAS to make the tournament to save his job?
 

If we had 13 wins everyone would be saying Pitino turned the corner regardless of how it happened.
He would be Big Ten coach of the year (again) and signing a new deal. Essentially you make my point- there is a really fine line between the coach everyone hates and the coach everyone loves. It might be a key injury or a healthy club, it might be a few missed or made shots or free throws. Had we won the last two games the conversations here would be much different and of course a few of these posters would not be partaking in them in that case.

Everything about our situation is hypothetical so I guess everyone can propose their own.

The facts are:
1. Pitino has been close in a lot of ways to having success (close losses, competitive teams these past 4 years including the single most unlucky season I have seen a coach have) but the record shows he has not succeeded at a level anyone is satisfied with.
2. In the past 45 years we have not been successful in hiring basketball coaches that bring prolonged winning here.
3. We all want to win. Everyone has their own opinion on how to go forward.

I just think this is such a cop out. If you think we should move forward with Pitino, we should move forward with him. If you think he should not be our coach, then we should move on from him. Coyle is not Teague who is also not Maturi who is not Boston.

That's, literally, the equivalent of saying the Gophers probably shouldn't throw the ball much next year because we have not had a history of good QBs. It's superstitious nonsense.
 

My guess is this is what Pitino will use to show he needs more time. He will say he is really close to competing for the Big Ten championship and making a run in the NCAA tournament - he is just a player or two away and he has some good players coming in next year's class.

Other factors weighing in though are his poor won-loss record especially in the Big Ten, continued last-minute meltdowns, and declining attendance. As you stated, a lack of depth in year 7 is a major factor. So I think it comes down to where you see the program right now and where it will be in 3 more years. If Oturu leaves, it sure looks like more of the same and a program that is just spinning its wheels. That is why I continue to say this would be a good time to fire Pitino and move on, especially if Coyle has someone good ready to step in.

I think the key phrase is "if Coyle has someone really good ready to step in." I think the strongest argument in support of making a change, is declining attendance. In evaluating Pitino's performance, I don't believe that simply looking at his 7-year data tells the whole story. He clearly was not ready to take on a power 5 program after just one year as a head coach, and he ended up giving scholarships out to a number of players who weren’t ever going to be successful in the Big Ten. To his credit, and detriment, he stuck with those recruits, which has adversely affected his, and the teams, overall performance.

The question at this point is whether a change is the best way to build a long-term successful program. At this point, we have invested a lot in Pitino’s development. And whether that investment is worth saving requires focusing on what he has done beginning 3 or 4 years out when he began to mature as a coach and recruiter. Affecting that analysis is the season a couple of years ago that started out with great promise and disintegrated due to a sex scandal and injuries. My belief, which can be debated, is that had that not occurred, we might not be having this discussion today.

This season has been gut-wrenching. And the failure to close out close games – repeatedly – raises serious questions about the quality of the coaching. Yet it brings to my mind the 1959 football season under Murray Warmath in which we went 2-7. My recollection is that we had a lead in all but two of those losses until the last couple of minutes of the game. (I was there for all of the home games.) Someone in the state legislature introduced a bill limiting the time for college games played in the state by 2 minutes. Well, the bill didn’t become law, and it was unnecessary, as the next year we were named National Champions. We literally went from last to first.

I’m not expecting that to happen with our basketball team, but I am expecting a much more successful season next year as long as Oturu returns, and perhaps, even if he doesn’t. I’ve been impressed with Isaiah Ihnen’s recent play, and Tre Williams is developing. I’m excited to see what Jamal Mashburn and Martice Mitchell will add next year. And if we have enough depth to give some of our key players more rest, it should help us close out games. It might also help Gabe Kalscheur to regain his shooting touch. I suspect that fatigue is a factor in his poor percentage this year.

Like most on this board, I’ve been frustrated by watching a parade of Minnesota’s best talent commit to other schools. But I think Pitino’s recruiting has improved significantly, and I’m more than happy to win with out-of-state players. In time, I expect that more locals will follow the lead of Oturu, Kalscheur, Omersa, and stay home as the program’s success on the floor improves. At that time, the local talent pool will likely become a strong program asset.

If we do make a change, and I trust Coyle to make the right decision, I hope it will be someone who can keep this team together and build on the talent we have.
 

While I agree that no player, not even Lebron James, should be able to force a school to retain a poorly performing coach if the university wants to move on, what if Oturu said, "I'll come back if you get us a decent coach!"

This input would probably have more weight considering the record one Richard Pitino has produced here. There is a lot of negative aspects in Richard's time here.

a. B1G defensive player of the year being accused of two sexual assaults. Player you recruited.
b. Player you recruiting posting a four way with a College girl involving three of your guards that you recruited.
c. Player you recruited being convicted of murder.
d. multiple transfers out of your program.
e. wasting 8 years of scholarships on players not remotely capable of playing B1G basketball. (and I'm not even including Hurt.)
f. Failure to develop a bench capable of producing more than ten points/game in any year of your tenure except maybe Curry's freshman year.
g. sub .500 conference record by a considerable margin.
h. Failure to recruit more than 3 good Minnesota players despite the plethora of available local talent.
i. don't feel like I need to go any further.

Fire him.
 

I just think this is such a cop out. If you think we should move forward with Pitino, we should move forward with him. If you think he should not be our coach, then we should move on from him. Coyle is not Teague who is also not Maturi who is not Boston.

That's, literally, the equivalent of saying the Gophers probably shouldn't throw the ball much next year because we have not had a history of good QBs. It's superstitious nonsense.

It is far from a cop out. I have taken a ton of criticism for defending Pitino and saying wait until the season is over. That is where I have stood and where I stand. I think that firing him at the end of the year is a lot more viable today than 3 weeks ago based on what has happened and fan disappointment in the results.

There is a ton that we don't know that Coyle does know:
- Who are the viable alternatives?
- How does he think Pitino is doing on recruiting spring guys?
- Is he confident that we will have a roster that is overall as good or better next year that he thinks Pitino could win with? Or not?
- How good is Coyle's relationship with Pitino?
- What insight does Coyle have on our local recruiting misses?
- Does he view Pitino to be progressing?
- What does he think of the current staff?
- What do the players say about Pitino? Do they respect him, think he is helping them grow?
- Based on all of these things is Coyle confident enough in Pitino that he is willing to weather the storm?

I have said for a while that I am fine with firing him at the end of the year and fine with keeping him based on Coyle's judgement of these things.

I didn't say anything about money there, because I think that the money will work itself out except for in the case of extreme buyouts. Like Musselman for example, being at 5 million would have been better last year or next year. Who knows, though, some booster might cover that.
 

heck, I was willing to consider another year if he could have swept wisky...
 


My two cents worth... If Orturo stay (please!) Pitno will get next year to at least get to the big dance...
 

It is far from a cop out. I have taken a ton of criticism for defending Pitino and saying wait until the season is over. That is where I have stood and where I stand. I think that firing him at the end of the year is a lot more viable today than 3 weeks ago based on what has happened and fan disappointment in the results.

There is a ton that we don't know that Coyle does know:
- Who are the viable alternatives?
- How does he think Pitino is doing on recruiting spring guys?
- Is he confident that we will have a roster that is overall as good or better next year that he thinks Pitino could win with? Or not?
- How good is Coyle's relationship with Pitino?
- What insight does Coyle have on our local recruiting misses?
- Does he view Pitino to be progressing?
- What does he think of the current staff?
- What do the players say about Pitino? Do they respect him, think he is helping them grow?
- Based on all of these things is Coyle confident enough in Pitino that he is willing to weather the storm?

I have said for a while that I am fine with firing him at the end of the year and fine with keeping him based on Coyle's judgement of these things.

I didn't say anything about money there, because I think that the money will work itself out except for in the case of extreme buyouts. Like Musselman for example, being at 5 million would have been better last year or next year. Who knows, though, some booster might cover that.

So when would it be enough for you to WANT him to be fired? Not be OK with the decision, when would you be like "yes, we need to move on"?

11th or worse the next two years?
No NCAA for the next two years/three years?

At one point would you move from, understanding the decision to leading the charge?
 




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