Hypothetical question...

[bizzle22]

Neither. Both are data points. What you look at is where the program is right now and what you have in a coach right now and what the future prospects look like. There are a lot of factors at hand here. The age of the coach and his improvement in key areas is important here. This is also an academic institution and off court performance has hit an all time high. Coyle is going to compare where Pitino is at right now versus what he can get by starting over. He may well decide to start over, and at this point I am guessing that he does- but it isn't quite like you think. Coyle isn't stupid enough to be sitting in his office screaming 47-80 like some here do. Right now we are about a half dozen free throws from being an 8 seed and in the tournament for the third year out of four. He has not gotten it done but that's the truth of the matter.

The roster is still deficient of depth and that is indeed on Pitino. On the other hand one can consider how this year might have played out with Coffey and Curry. I'd guess we might be playing for a Big Ten championship. That's how thin the line is.

This is irrelevant. Maybe if we are talking about a coach who is 65+ years old it makes sense. But there is no difference between a coach being 34 years old or 57 years old. Both could still coach here for 10+ years.

 

[bc2211]

A year ago, Oturu was nothing like he is this year. You could tell he had potential. So how do we know that this group- 2 years hence- can't develop?

This year was not our best roster. The Mason, Coffey, Murphy, McBrayer, Lynch roster was his best and offered depth. McBrayer, fully healthy was pretty good that year so I don't recall a weak spot on that one while it was intact. This one might have matched that had Gabe and Willis been shooting up to par and if Curry would have been available. Or if Coffey would have stayed....

Agreed those rosters were very good. Coffey hasn’t shown that he would play consistently great yet, and when he was off or disappeared it was bad. He never really had “it” consistently until February of last year. Oturu was so far ahead of the freshman curve last year. He learned how to be patient midway through the year and his game changed. He also showed range as a freshman. Added weight during a healthy offseason and we shouldn’t be too shocked. The only thing I’m surprised about is that he became dominant this year rather than next.

Anyways, my point is that he’s had some rosters I’m very excited about. I can’t remember any year where I feel as confident going up against any ranked team in the big ten, yet here we are. The potential of another good roster doesn’t necessarily do it for me, when we talk about reasons to or not to replace a coach.

i do think we need to be patient and find the right hire, even if that means wiring another year. I have no idea how many “good options” there arein a year, but I don’t think it’s wise to take a flyer on option Y or Z.

 

[Gopherfan84]

WTF did I just read?

The bottom line is Lil' Ricky is gone and I say good riddance. He's an awful coach and below average recruiter. He gets out-recruited in his backyard by a 70 year old.

LOL That 70 yr old out recruits pretty much everyone in the country.

 

[bga1]

Agreed those rosters were very good. Coffey hasn’t shown that he would play consistently great yet, and when he was off or disappeared it was bad. He never really had “it” consistently until February of last year. Oturu was so far ahead of the freshman curve last year. He learned how to be patient midway through the year and his game changed. He also showed range as a freshman. Added weight during a healthy offseason and we shouldn’t be too shocked. The only thing I’m surprised about is that he became dominant this year rather than next.

Anyways, my point is that he’s had some rosters I’m very excited about. I can’t remember any year where I feel as confident going up against any ranked team in the big ten, yet here we are. The potential of another good roster doesn’t necessarily do it for me, when we talk about reasons to or not to replace a coach.

i do think we need to be patient and find the right hire, even if that means wiring another year. I have no idea how many “good options” there arein a year, but I don’t think it’s wise to take a flyer on option Y or Z.

Agree with you on everything there. That's the trust Coyle factor. We don't know what the realistic alternatives are. He does.

 

[Gopherfan84]

A year ago, Oturu was nothing like he is this year. You could tell he had potential. So how do we know that this group- 2 years hence- can't develop?

This year was not our best roster. The Mason, Coffey, Murphy, McBrayer, Lynch roster was his best and offered depth. McBrayer, fully healthy was pretty good that year so I don't recall a weak spot on that one while it was intact. This one might have matched that had Gabe and Willis been shooting up to par and if Curry would have been available. Or if Coffey would have stayed....

Shooting and defending as a team were significant weak spots. We took a ton of inefficient iso mid range jump shots with that crew.

 

[bobmartinfan]

While I agree that no player, not even Lebron James, should be able to force a school to retain a poorly performing coach if the university wants to move on, what if Oturu said, "I'll come back if you get us a decent coach!"

This input would probably have more weight considering the record one Richard Pitino has produced here. There is a lot of negative aspects in Richard's time here.

a. B1G defensive player of the year being accused of two sexual assaults. Player you recruited.
b. Player you recruiting posting a four way with a College girl involving three of your guards that you recruited.
c. Player you recruited being convicted of murder.
d. multiple transfers out of your program.
e. wasting 8 years of scholarships on players not remotely capable of playing B1G basketball. (and I'm not even including Hurt.)
f. Failure to develop a bench capable of producing more than ten points/game in any year of your tenure except maybe Curry's freshman year.
g. sub .500 conference record by a considerable margin.
h. Failure to recruit more than 3 good Minnesota players despite the plethora of available local talent.
i. don't feel like I need to go any further.

Fire him.

Unfortunetly this is right on. I like Richard, but the program is and has been a mess.

The day Garcia committed to Marquette was the end of the pittino era.

Bad results on the court, past issues off the court and a total lack of recruiting Minnesota kids has killed coach Pittino and Gophers bb

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

This question makes no sense to answer in a vacuum. Making hiring decisions based solely on W-L récord or statistics would be selling ourselves short. Just because we don’t like an outcome such as a bad loss doesn’t mean the only solution is to fire our coach and it also doesn’t mean the only factor responsible for the loss is our coach. The coach has a role yes but so do the players and rest of the staff on the team. The question isn’t how much anger we can each endure before deciding that “now” is the right time to fire the coach.
Without presenting options of viable alternative candidates or presenting numbers such as what % of coaches that lateral to other head positions to fill vacancies at power 5 schools each year make the NCAA tourney their 1st yr, 2nd, 3rd etc.. How many are fired within the same season they are hired to replace the previously terminated coach. It’s really easy to criticize a position (potentially keeping Pitino), without defending an alternative course of action because any disadvantages to the “new hire” don’t apply of course. The amorphous new hire can shift into anything it wants when the situation is convenient.

What are you talking about? People get fired all of the time for failing to meet expectations. They even get fired when the person does not have the replacement already picked out.

Are you really arguing that you never move on from an unacceptable situation until you have the replacement in hand? You are showing a profound lack of confidence. In life, when people repeatedly fail to meet expectations, you move on. You then trust your process of finding the replacement. Do you realize how big of a loser you'd have to be (not calling you a loser) to think "this situation is absolutely unacceptable, but I'll just make things worse by trying to fix it"? That is absolutely never done by successful people in business or in their personal lives.

The question is - - when do you get to that point? When have you finally said enough is enough? You seem to be suggesting that point is always intertwined with whether or not you have a replacement in hand and that is simply not true.

So yeah, there are risks with "amorphous new hire" - - absolutely. We could somehow drop off the cliff from the 12th best team in the Big 10 to the 13th or the 14th. Gasp. Can you imagine?

When Mason was the football coach choosing what's behind door #2 was a risk. I understood taking the chance, but it turned out to be an enormous failure. With the situation with our basketball program, we know we have a bad team, so shouldn't door #2 seem to be significantly less risky? What is the worst that could happen? We could end up with one of the worst 3 programs in the Big 10.

 

[jblass]

The prior two coaches had some success after they left here too. Monson had some good years at Long Beach and Tubby did well at TT and was ok at Memphis, just ran into perception issue. I'm willing to bet Richard would do well once he leaves here with the knowledge he's gained. It's been a coach killer for a long time. That doesn't mean it can't be turned around, but we will need to find out lightening in a bottle.

So if your willing to bet Richard would do well once he leaves with the knowledge he’s gained, why would anyone want him to leave? Switching coaches every few years certainly has not been the answer.

 

[jblass]

This is irrelevant. Maybe if we are talking about a coach who is 65+ years old it makes sense. But there is no difference between a coach being 34 years old or 57 years old. Both could still coach here for 10+ years.

It is relevant. In my opinion bga1 is the voice of reason here.

 

[benlaur]

I said had some success. It hasn't been long lived which I feel has justified their firings. I look at conference records when I make my arguments. Monson won the conference three times in a row and finished lower than 5th once (his first year) at LBSU. TT was a dumpster fire and Tubby built it and took what was at the time a promotion at Memphis.
I believe someone can make the gophers a consistent NCAA team, but this job is harder than most give I think credit for.

Manderson, I think the job is probably easier than we give it credit for...just need the right combination. At some point, I guarantee you someone will make it look easy.

 

[Gopherfan84]

So if your willing to bet Richard would do well once he leaves with the knowledge he’s gained, why would anyone want him to leave? Switching coaches every few years certainly has not been the answer.

Great and fair question. Imo people are not great at forgiveness. I think the energy here is down and most likely out. It would be very hard for him to officially turn it around even though he's showing signs of actually recruiting with a purpose and developing an identity. These mistakes would not be made in his next job and it will pay him back.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Manderson, I think the job is probably easier than we give it credit for...just need the right combination. At some point, I guarantee you someone will make it look easy.

If we get that coach that makes it look easy we are in a dream scenario and found our Jay Wright or Tony Bennett. I hope to see that and believe that we can find them. This job is getting better as well as we are supporting it financially and with the practice facility as well.

 

[builtbadgers]

So if your willing to bet Richard would do well once he leaves with the knowledge he’s gained, why would anyone want him to leave? Switching coaches every few years certainly has not been the answer.

Has not been every few years !

 

[Dave H]

So if your willing to bet Richard would do well once he leaves with the knowledge he’s gained, why would anyone want him to leave? Switching coaches every few years certainly has not been the answer.

Every few years? Pitino has been here for 7 years he isnt being fired on a whim because of one bad season.

Pitino will be a good coach at a smaller school...he will not be a successful Power 5 coach unless he changes everything about his style. (from recruiting to in game decisions)

 

[golfing18now]

We have a player who could be big 10 player of the year, and are in 12th place.

Does that make any sense!

 

[bga1]

View attachment 7225

Good one!!

For GH historians here, does anyone know what happened the following year?

 

[Indiana Gopher]

I really like (LOVE?) Oturu and would love to see him come back next year, but for me it is too late for Pitino! I have no confidence in Pitino's Gophers, have no expectation that we will be better (long-term) with Pitino in charge, and have lost interest in MY team as I can't see us turning the corner, regardless of who is on the court, with Pitino at the healm. I used to put Gopher Basketball Games on my calendar as 'must see TV' but almost missed the Wisconsin game d/t total apathy. Caught the game and realized why I was apathetic. Sadly, I am 'out' until we start over again.

 

[Some guy]

Except for all the guys who were given longer and never been great.

Not many guys have been given that many years.
I’m saying it’s just an argument with logical fallacy all over it.
Just because not many have success after not having success doesn’t mean no one could.

I wanted Pitino out after last season.
I personally think he is back next year barring getting blown out in each of the last two games.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Good one!!

For GH historians here, does anyone know what happened the following year?

You mean getting McDonalds all american from MN isn't a cure all?

 

[scools12]

You mean getting McDonalds all american from MN isn't a cure all?

This is really what you guys are going with? You can do better than this can’t you?

Quite a big difference between the situation the program was in then compared to now.

 

[Gopherfan84]

This is really what you guys are going with? You can do better than this can’t you?

Quite a big difference between the situation the program was in then compared to now.

Better for what? Humphries is a punk and self centered and the team did better without him. McDonalds AA doesn't mean success of the team. Take last years class for example: UNC has two of them, Memphis has/had two, Georgia has one, USC has one, Arizona had two, Washington has two, and TN has one. None of them are ranked or having great seasons.

 

[bga1]

This is really what you guys are going with? You can do better than this can’t you?

Quite a big difference between the situation the program was in then compared to now.

Please expand on that. Thanks

 

[scools12]

Please expand on that. Thanks

How about you answer the question you keep avoiding. When would it be enough for you to WANT Pitino fired? Thanks.

 

[bga1]

How about you answer the question you keep avoiding. When would it be enough for you to WANT Pitino fired? Thanks.

I'm not sure. This season is not it though. I think he has done a good job with this team and things have not worked out. The team is playing hard. I want more and I want a lot more but I understand the situation. I think this would have been a fantastic year if Coffey had returned or Gabe had been as good as last year shooting the ball. All that said, I fully understand why a lot of people are ready to see him gone and I have no complaints with that- it is a reasonable viewpoint.

I will support Coyle and the Gophers either way. Will you?

Now can you answer my question? Thanks.

 

[scools12]

I'm not sure. This season is not it though. I think he has done a good job with this team and things have not worked out. The team is playing hard. I want more and I want a lot more but I understand the situation. I think this would have been a fantastic year if Coffey had returned or Gabe had been as good as last year shooting the ball. All that said, I fully understand why a lot of people are ready to see him gone and I have no complaints with that- it is a reasonable viewpoint.

I will support Coyle and the Gophers either way. Will you?

Now can you answer my question? Thanks.

Monson took over a program gutted by sanctions and probation. Trying to compare that situation to where the program is now isn’t realistic.

 

[bga1]

It was a tough job then and a tough one now. The farther away we get from 96-97, the less people and recruits tend to believe we can do it again. Tubby not getting it done here was a bad thing for the program. The only program that he couldn't win at up to that time. Maybe the next coach......and then three years later they start to turn against him.

Dan was a moment away from perhaps getting it done here, but his guards couldn't get the ball up court against Illinois and the fans wouldn't forgive him for it. The seat was already warming up in year three and after that, no one wanted to hear about the sanctions. He was a goober because of that game.