HS Football Update - sort of

[MaxyJR1]

Andover's schedule is up and has them opening with St. Thomas Academy. So much of what the MSHSL does gets criticized (and rightly so in so many cases . . . ) that fairness compels me to note that some people are doing something right with scheduling. It seems they found a way to get St. Thomas playing the schools they should be playing more often, if they're starting with Waconia and Andover.

 

[Ope3]

Northfields schedule is out. Interesting MEA Wed Night Game vs Tartan, who have not played in my lifetime if ever. Also renewing a previous Missota rivalry with Chaska.

Schedule - Northfield Raiders (Northfield, MN) Varsity Football 23-24

View the 23-24 Northfield varsity football team schedule.

www.maxpreps.com

One thing I am curious about, is previously the Sec 1-5A Seeding was based on Section games only. That meant in a 6 team section, the other 3 games had no impact. Now with only 5 teams, I wonder if they will stick that.

 

[Some guy]

Northfields schedule is out. Interesting MEA Wed Night Game vs Tartan, who have not played in my lifetime if ever. Also renewing a previous Missota rivalry with Chaska.

Schedule - Northfield Raiders (Northfield, MN) Varsity Football 23-24

View the 23-24 Northfield varsity football team schedule.

www.maxpreps.com

One thing I am curious about, is previously the Sec 1-5A Seeding was based on Section games only. That meant in a 6 team section, the other 3 games had no impact. Now with only 5 teams, I wonder if they will stick that.

I am guessing it is by coaches vote. So it probably really depends.

 

[Ope3]

I am guessing it is by coaches vote. So it probably really depends.

That's my understanding as well.

Not to get to deep into Sec 1-5A football as I am sure it is a rather limited audience on this forum, but they will also have to decide on the location for the Sectional Final.

Previously it was at Mayo as they were the only school with Field Turf, but now they are 6A. Maybe they can still host as Century/JM are part of the same district. No idea how the expenses are paid for such a game.

New Prague is now in and they have a nice stadium with Field Turf, so maybe that is the call, but I suspect it will be Owatonna in their brand new stadium opening this fall.

I will keep everyone posted.

 

[Some guy]

That's my understanding as well.

Not to get to deep into Sec 1-5A football as I am sure it is a rather limited audience on this forum, but they will also have to decide on the location for the Sectional Final.

Previously it was at Mayo as they were the only school with Field Turf, but now they are 6A. Maybe they can still host as Century/JM are part of the same district. No idea how the expenses are paid for such a game.

New Prague is now in and they have a nice stadium with Field Turf, so maybe that is the call, but I suspect it will be Owatonna in their brand new stadium opening this fall.

I will keep everyone posted.

I might guess they end up just doing home team hosts?

If they want a neutral site turf, perhaps they could play at St Olaf? Or RCTC?

 

[Ope3]

I might guess they end up just doing home team hosts?

If they want a neutral site turf, perhaps they could play at St Olaf? Or RCTC?

Both possible, but no lights at St Olaf so it would have to be on Saturday afternoon, and no idea if the MIAC schedule is released.

 

[Some guy]

Both possible, but no lights at St Olaf so it would have to be on Saturday afternoon, and no idea if the MIAC schedule is released.

Probably won’t want that as the solution because even if it works this year might not the next

 

[xyz1]

St. Thomas also adds Armstrong and Chaska, and will continue to play Cretin and Mahtomedi. Glad to see that the right thing was done here. Blowouts aren't good for anybody involved.

 

[GopherRock]

That's my understanding as well.

Not to get to deep into Sec 1-5A football as I am sure it is a rather limited audience on this forum, but they will also have to decide on the location for the Sectional Final.

Previously it was at Mayo as they were the only school with Field Turf, but now they are 6A. Maybe they can still host as Century/JM are part of the same district. No idea how the expenses are paid for such a game.

New Prague is now in and they have a nice stadium with Field Turf, so maybe that is the call, but I suspect it will be Owatonna in their brand new stadium opening this fall.

I will keep everyone posted.

The fact that Mayo is now up in 6A means that it will be a neutral field no matter what and will host barring any major complications. If not there, then RCTC.

 

[Ope3]

The fact that Mayo is now up in 6A means that it will be a neutral field no matter what and will host barring any major complications. If not there, then RCTC.

Yes, a neutral field but perhaps it would not be available on the desired date if Mayo has a game of their own. They knew it would be available when they were in the section.

In the past the 3 Rochester schools pretty much got their way as they were 50% of the section and stuck together. Now they (Century & JM) are just 40%.

Personally, I don't envy Coach/Admins that have to go through the whole process. I get a sense everyone treats as though it's like the Malta Conference and not unique to HS sports.

 

[MaxyJR1]

That's my understanding as well.

Not to get to deep into Sec 1-5A football as I am sure it is a rather limited audience on this forum, but they will also have to decide on the location for the Sectional Final.

Previously it was at Mayo as they were the only school with Field Turf, but now they are 6A. Maybe they can still host as Century/JM are part of the same district. No idea how the expenses are paid for such a game.

New Prague is now in and they have a nice stadium with Field Turf, so maybe that is the call, but I suspect it will be Owatonna in their brand new stadium opening this fall.

I will keep everyone posted.

Section 1 has typically had the high seed host through the entire section, but I could be wrong.

 

[Gopherwatcher]

Seems as though quite a few schools are facing declining enrollments. Red Wing, Albert Lea, and Stewartville all dropped down to AAA from AAAA. Cannon Falls drops from AAA to AA. Goodhue drops back to A from AA. Thank goodness that they didn't place Cannon Falls in Section 1AA. Having Chatfield, Caledonia, and Cannon Falls all in that section would have been unbelievable. Strange to see that section with only 6 teams though as they moved Triton out to Section 2AA, and Cotter has forfeited their playoff game at least the last two seasons, so could possibly only 5 teams in that section for playoffs. Crazy times.

 

[Ope3]

Section 1 has typically had the high seed host through the entire section, but I could be wrong.

They switched last year, it was pre-determined Mayo would host. They just happened to be the #1 seed anyway and won their semi-final, so it wound up being de facto the same.

 

[Some guy]

Seems as though quite a few schools are facing declining enrollments. Red Wing, Albert Lea, and Stewartville all dropped down to AAA from AAAA. Cannon Falls drops from AAA to AA. Goodhue drops back to A from AA. Thank goodness that they didn't place Cannon Falls in Section 1AA. Having Chatfield, Caledonia, and Cannon Falls all in that section would have been unbelievable. Strange to see that section with only 6 teams though as they moved Triton out to Section 2AA, and Cotter has forfeited their playoff game at least the last two seasons, so could possibly only 5 teams in that section for playoffs. Crazy times.

Declining enrollments and enrollments increasing at a lower rate than their peers are two different scenarios


IMO 7 classes is too many for MN
Would be better served with 6
But MSHSL disagrees with me

 

[State of Football]

Declining enrollments and enrollments increasing at a lower rate than their peers are two different scenarios


IMO 7 classes is too many for MN
Would be better served with 6
But MSHSL disagrees with me

The MSHSL does agree and have said so. Smaller schools in each class have the power of the vote.

 

[Some guy]

The MSHSL does agree and have said so. Smaller schools in each class have the power of the vote.

The voting block is the MSHSL

 

[MNfootballfan]

Seems as though quite a few schools are facing declining enrollments. Red Wing, Albert Lea, and Stewartville all dropped down to AAA from AAAA. Cannon Falls drops from AAA to AA. Goodhue drops back to A from AA. Thank goodness that they didn't place Cannon Falls in Section 1AA. Having Chatfield, Caledonia, and Cannon Falls all in that section would have been unbelievable. Strange to see that section with only 6 teams though as they moved Triton out to Section 2AA, and Cotter has forfeited their playoff game at least the last two seasons, so could possibly only 5 teams in that section for playoffs. Crazy times.

Cannon Falls won the lottery being put in 4-AA. They will walk right through the section!

 

[Gophers_4life]

Cannon Falls won the lottery being put in 4-AA. They will walk right through the section!

All the more reason why sections and "everyone makes the playoffs" is BS and needs to end.

Take the best 16 teams from all over the state, in each class, and put them in a single state playoff bracket.

Or something closer to that than sections.

 

[MNfootballfan]

All the more reason why sections and "everyone makes the playoffs" is BS and needs to end.

Take the best 16 teams from all over the state, in each class, and put them in a single state playoff bracket.

Or something closer to that than sections.

I don't disagree with you but the MSHSL will flat out say their state tournaments are a collection of teams from 8 geographic areas, not the 8 best teams.

The only flaw in football of your theory is there isn't enough non-conference games to know if a team up north is better than a team down south. Most schools only play their district which in most cases is essentially their section.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

just for fun I looked up Iowa's playoff system.

the four smaller classes (8-man, A, 1A & 2A) each have 32 teams go to the playoffs. (they play 8-game regular seasons)

the 3 larger classes (3A, 4A & 5A) each have 16 teams go to the playoffs. (play 9-game regular seasons)

four teams in each class go to the State Semi-Finals.

IA uses a 'district' system, and the number of districts vary by class. In the smaller classes, 4 teams from each district advance. in other districts, 3 teams advance and then there are 'wild-card' teams that advance to even out the brackets. 5A does its own thing (like 6A in MN).

so, in general, in most districts, it looks like roughly half of the teams make the playoffs.

 

[Some guy]

just for fun I looked up Iowa's playoff system.

the four smaller classes (8-man, A, 1A & 2A) each have 32 teams go to the playoffs. (they play 8-game regular seasons)

the 3 larger classes (3A, 4A & 5A) each have 16 teams go to the playoffs. (play 9-game regular seasons)

four teams in each class go to the State Semi-Finals.

IA uses a 'district' system, and the number of districts vary by class. In the smaller classes, 4 teams from each district advance. in other districts, 3 teams advance and then there are 'wild-card' teams that advance to even out the brackets. 5A does its own thing (like 6A in MN).

so, in general, in most districts, it looks like roughly half of the teams make the playoffs.

They should start from the top and make 48 team classes.
6 teams per section.
8 sections per class.
You okay 5 games against your section and 3 against other sections. 3 against other sections are against other “like” schools. Basically preseason rank each section and have teams preseason top half play other teams preseason top half.

Top 4 in each section make a playoff (32) that is seeded really similarly to the current 6a system.

Teams 5-6 in each section play a 9th game against another 5-6 rather than go to a playoff.

When you run out of 48s
The remaining teams are your 9 man class.


Biggest problem in Mn HS football right now is not enough competitive games. And this is a problem for both the top teams and the bottom teams. Eden prairie doesn’t want to play a top 10 team every week. But they also don’t want to play against Hopkins.

 

[xyz1]

That is a very appealing approach, but for it to really work you would need to base tiers on competitiveness rather than just by size, and it's hard to envision that realistically happening. Simply putting the 48 biggest schools in the top tier would push up some schools that would be extremely overmatched against at least half the schools currently in 6A, but would not move up Mankato West, Mahtomedi, or St. Thomas, given their size.

 

[State of Football]

The voting block is the MSHSL

22 Board members that consists of principals, superintendents, AD’s and Governor appointees. League staff does not vote.

 

[Some guy]

22 Board members that consists of principals, superintendents, AD’s and Governor appointees. League staff does not vote.

If you don’t think the schools control the league, I don’t know what to tell you

 

[Gophers_4life]

If you don’t think the schools control the league, I don’t know what to tell you

Principals, superintendents, AD's ??

 

[Some guy]

Principals, superintendents, AD's ??

Voting members

 

[Gophers_4life]

Voting members

Are those examples confirming that the schools "control" the vote?

 

[Some guy]

Are those examples confirming that the schools "control" the vote?

Well the schools control the voting member from their schools. They also elect 18 of the 22 members of the board.

 

[Gopherwatcher]

Declining enrollments and enrollments increasing at a lower rate than their peers are two different scenarios


IMO 7 classes is too many for MN
Would be better served with 6
But MSHSL disagrees with me

Explain how we would be better served with 6.

And to the point I made about those schools dropping down. It doesn't have anything to do with enrollments increasing compared to peers.

Albert Lea dropped from 843 to 760
Cannon Falls dropped from 363 to 302
Red Wing dropped from 701 to 593.

Those are SIGNIFICANT decreases in enrollment.

I will give you Stewartville. They only dropped from 598 to 591.

 

[Some guy]

Explain how we would be better served with 6.

And to the point I made about those schools dropping down. It doesn't have anything to do with enrollments increasing compared to peers.

Albert Lea dropped from 843 to 760
Cannon Falls dropped from 363 to 302
Red Wing dropped from 701 to 593.

Those are SIGNIFICANT decreases in enrollment.

I will give you Stewartville. They only dropped from 598 to 591.

7 classes is literally destroying 6-10 of the largest 32 schools in the state. That’s why it would be better served with 6.
Not good for the health of the sport.

The enrollment numbers you’re looking at aren’t enrollment
They’re “enrollment”