High School spring practice

Donate To GopherHole
MplsGopher said:
Maybe it’s 7 on 7 positions to start.
Click to expand...
7 on 7 (and 5 on 5) exists now. I coach that as well. It's a really fun game, but it's not the same game at all.
 

disco said:
7 on 7 (and 5 on 5) exists now. I coach that as well. It's a really fun game, but it's not the same game at all.
Click to expand...
Are they formal clubs where you train together and compete year round, in full pads, except for the school season? Each household has a monthly bill? Etc?

Guessing not.


I’m literally saying nothing more than that it’s entirely possible for year round club football to be a thing.

No one has presented anything close to a valid reason for why it’s impossible.


I don’t even see why you wouldn’t want it to be possible, unless you’re consistent and thus want all clubs in all sports abolished. Fair in that case, but guessing no one is there.
 

Ope3 said:
Not going to happen.
Click to expand...
Correct. Even the NCAA has strict limits on spring practice and specifically, contact. We're not going to see full pad, full contact winter, spring and summer club football.
  • Practices can be conducted over a 34-day period with 20 hours per week of unrestricted activities. Players must receive one day off per week.
  • 15 on-field practice sessions may be held, with no more than 12 involving contact.
  • Full contact may not occur until the third practice.
  • Eight of the 12 contact practices can involve tackling, and no more than three of those eight may be devoted to 11-on-11 scrimmages.
  • During noncontact practice sessions, headgear may be worn.
 

disco said:
Even the NCAA has strict limits on spring practice and specifically, contact.
Click to expand...
I did not suggest it would be different in the club.

You can do quite a lot of good training on the practice field, year round, without contact.

There would be a spring contact period and outside that no contact.


It could be figured out.


Hockey has no contact?


Just so bizarre to pretend that year round hockey is fine and dandy but football is impossible. Pure anti-logic
 



MplsGopher said:
Are they formal clubs where you train together and compete year round, in full pads, except for the school season? Each household has a monthly bill? Etc?

Guessing not.


I’m literally saying nothing more than that it’s entirely possible for year round club football to be a thing.

No one has presented anything close to a valid reason for why it’s impossible.


I don’t even see why you wouldn’t want it to be possible, unless you’re consistent and thus want all clubs in all sports abolished. Fair in that case, but guessing no one is there.
Click to expand...
Injury risk alone is why "year round club football" impossible to fathom in this day and age.
 

I'd guess somewhere like IMG has guys who work out and do some semblance of practice together year round, but there's no way there's going to be year-round full contact leagues like in other sports.
 

I’ve said multiple times that it wouldn’t be like a year round fall season.

Clubs sports don’t play games against other clubs every single week in anyway outside the school season. They train.

Would it have fewer club full-on contact 11on11 competitions over the club year than other club sports? Probably. Does that do a step change instantly making it worthless, like you guys are trying to pretend? Nope.

There’s room between the binary, as always. It could add enough value that families are willing to go all-in and pay for it, if they perceive the value to be there.
 

Ope3 said:
Injury risk
Click to expand...
Hockey??

No girls tear ACL playing club soccer? None get leg injuries playing club vball or bball?


You have no clue what the actual numbers are. Yet try to pretend to be certain on here. Dishonest
 



don't want to beat the dead horse, but a lot of this goes back to large schools vs small schools.

at the large-school level, as a general rule, there is more specialization and fewer multi-sport athletes. so in theory, you could have some version of year-round football with a relatively small impact on other sports or programs.

but at the small-school level, any type of year-round football would have a significant impact on other sports and other programs.

I am not in favor of anything that forces more kids to choose between sports and programs. I still see a lot of value in the multi-sport athlete. If I was King of the World, I would reign in all of the off-season club programs, because I think the HS programs should have priority.

and don't get me on Mom and Dad chasing scholarships for their kids......that is a really long rant for another time.....
 

short ornery norwegian said:
If I was King of the World, I would reign in all of the off-season club programs, because I think the HS programs should have priority.

and don't get me on Mom and Dad chasing scholarships for their kids......that is a really long rant for another time.....
Click to expand...
I would tend to agree, but the argument against that, is that the high school league limits kids to too few games, while their clubs do not. IIRC, that was the initial reason Shattuck dropped out of the high school league for hockey - they refused to be bound to the rules of the MSHSL.

So SON, what DO you think about Mom and Dad chasing scholarships? 🤣
 

Of course, the primary purpose of High School is education. Sports are a part of the HS experience, but in theory, the kids are there to get an education and prepare for college or some other career path. So the schools are trying to maintain a balance between sports, academics, fine arts and other activities and in theory will turn out a more well-rounded student.

club programs (IMHO) put the club above everything. I'm sure there are club programs and coaches that promote education, but it's not their responsibility. it gets down to this: do you want a well-rounded student or a student who devotes the vast majority of their time and effort to one activity?
 

disco said:
I would tend to agree, but the argument against that, is that the high school league limits kids to too few games, while their clubs do not. IIRC, that was the initial reason Shattuck dropped out of the high school league for hockey - they refused to be bound to the rules of the MSHSL.
Click to expand...

This is true. For hockey, when a kid is in 9th grade, you can choose to play your second year of Bantam hockey for your youth association or play for the high school team. I would guess about 95% of kids play Bantams. My older kid did, and my younger kid who will be a 9th grader/2nd year Bantam next year will as well. Why? In Bantams you play about 55 games ±. In HS, you're in the neighborhood of 25 or so, depending on how you do in Sections, State, etc. For most kids, it's a no brainer, especially if you're not good enough to go straight to the Varsity team.

The comment about kids starting football in high school for the first time is right on too. I know a decent number of kids who are great athletes that never played football and have now joined their HS teams. Pretty easy to do if you're athletic. Running, catching, hitting, etc doesn't need years of training. Try skating for the first time as a 9th grader and it's a disaster. Try hitting a baseball...shooting a basketball, setting a volleyball...not so easy.

As far as the year round football...if there was demand for it, it would exist. I just don't see it anytime soon. I'm guessing it'll just continue to be weights, conditioning, etc in the offseason.
 



MplsGopher said:
Hockey??

No girls tear ACL playing club soccer? None get leg injuries playing club vball or bball?


You have no clue what the actual numbers are. Yet try to pretend to be certain on here. Dishonest
Click to expand...
What other sports are doing has no impact on whether or not there will be spring or club football. Not happening here. Nada chance.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Of course, the primary purpose of High School is education. Sports are a part of the HS experience, but in theory, the kids are there to get an education and prepare for college or some other career path. So the schools are trying to maintain a balance between sports, academics, fine arts and other activities and in theory will turn out a more well-rounded student.
Click to expand...
Of course, but the MSHSL knows that the lower number of HS league hockey games will drive a certain percentage of top players out of the HS system. I don't see this changing.

I don't know if it's the same in basketball, volleyball and soccer.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
it gets down to this: do you want a well-rounded student
Click to expand...
Being a well-rounded student has absolutely nothing to do with how many extracurricular school-sponsored activities you choose to participate in.

While, exactly to your point, in small/rural communities the school is the primary source and driver of those activities even being provided at all …. that’s not at all true at larger/metro locations.
 

MplsGopher said:
Being a well-rounded student has absolutely nothing to do with how many extracurricular school-sponsored activities you choose to participate in.

While, exactly to your point, in small/rural communities the school is the primary source and driver of those activities even being provided at all …. that’s not at all true at larger/metro locations.
Click to expand...
What replaces those extra-curricular activities? Church,YMCA?
 

disco said:
It's really slimy. Club volleyball can be too. I was reading that club volleyball costs $3000-5000 before travel costs and uniforms/gear.
Click to expand...
The 2 big clubs I am very familiar with in the NW suburbs are easily over $4,000, maybe over $5,000. My daughter is a few years removed from club vb but it was over $4,000 back then for the top teams.
 

FredCoxRocks said:
Yup.

"I've seen your daughter play and she's pretty good, but there are some things I think she could work on to improve her game...things that we coach at Acme Volleyball Club. With some dedication she may even get a college scholarship, like some of our past players. Now if you'll just put down a $500 deposit to secure her place we can get her started and make her volleyball career a success!".

Yeah, paraphrasing, but this is basically the pitch her and a few other girls on her 16U JO team received a few years ago.
Click to expand...
Ask the Totino Grace Head basketball coach. He owns a club and is independently wealthy. Interesting how their football program and basketball programs have had different trajectories. He’s not the only one. Shame on the complicity of their administration.
 

disco said:
Of course, but the MSHSL knows that the lower number of HS league hockey games will drive a certain percentage of top players out of the HS system. I don't see this changing.

I don't know if it's the same in basketball, volleyball and soccer.
Click to expand...
No high school sport should play 60 games.
 



Word said:
The 2 big clubs I am very familiar with in the NW suburbs are easily over $4,000, maybe over $5,000. My daughter is a few years removed from club vb but it was over $4,000 back then for the top teams.
Click to expand...
Northern Lights is in Burnsville? Or they were at one time.

MN Select is in MG.
 


Football year round is not feasible.
It's not something you can play in the winter - unless you have a domed field and there are not many 100 yard domed fields.
Spring practice isn't happening anytime soon here for a couple reasons
- It would take kids away from their spring sport season
- Grass fields in the spring would get torn up so bad they would not recover by the fall and be S**t all the time.
- The number of players needed to field a team for practice is considerably more than any other sport.
- In MN, they can practice as a team during the summer and that is similar to spring practice.

Along with that football is different than hockey, base and basketball, or volleyball in that the skills to play a position in football are so varying from one position to the next. Then those skills have to be put to use in the scheme of the offense or defense that is being used. Playing in a Veer Option Offense is completely different than playing in an Air Raid Offense same thing on the defensive side.

Speed, Strength and Agility Training are more important things to do year round. Those things are already happening. QB's, Punters, Kickers, Long Snappers, WR, DB's also need to work on their specific skills more and those do not need to be done in some formal practice setting (club). 7 on 7 is good for that skill development. It's not the same as real football, but it does help the QB's, RB's and WR's develop.
 

GFBfan said:
Football year round is not feasible.
Click to expand...
No one ever suggested that what goes on in the typical fall season of high school football be converted into a year-round format of games.

Agree that's not feasible, and no one ever said it was or ever will.

GFBfan said:
Speed, Strength and Agility Training are more important things to do year round. Those things are already happening. QB's, Punters, Kickers, Long Snappers, WR, DB's also need to work on their specific skills more and those do not need to be done in some formal practice setting (club). 7 on 7 is good for that skill development. It's not the same as real football, but it does help the QB's, RB's and WR's develop.
Click to expand...
Sure, and these things can happen somewhat through the school/the school football program.

But they aren't the focus. Exactly because: households are paying beaucoup big bucks individually to have their kids be in private clubs. They pay zero (directly), or they pay very little comparatively, to do the school programs.

Guess which ones get dropped if there is a conflict?


Solution: take the year-round training primarily, but also with a spring contact/competitive period, into the private club format. Now it's the priority.
 

GFBfan said:
Football year round is not feasible.
It's not something you can play in the winter - unless you have a domed field and there are not many 100 yard domed fields.
Spring practice isn't happening anytime soon here for a couple reasons
- It would take kids away from their spring sport season
- Grass fields in the spring would get torn up so bad they would not recover by the fall and be S**t all the time.
- The number of players needed to field a team for practice is considerably more than any other sport.
- In MN, they can practice as a team during the summer and that is similar to spring practice.

Along with that football is different than hockey, base and basketball, or volleyball in that the skills to play a position in football are so varying from one position to the next. Then those skills have to be put to use in the scheme of the offense or defense that is being used. Playing in a Veer Option Offense is completely different than playing in an Air Raid Offense same thing on the defensive side.
Great
Speed, Strength and Agility Training are more important things to do year round. Those things are already happening. QB's, Punters, Kickers, Long Snappers, WR, DB's also need to work on their specific skills more and those do not need to be done in some formal practice setting (club). 7 on 7 is good for that skill development. It's not the same as real football, but it does help the QB's, RB's and WR's develop.
Click to expand...
Great post. I'd add that where there are domed fields, they're pretty well scheduled up with other activities.
 

MplsGopher said:
No one ever suggested that what goes on in the typical fall season of high school football be converted into a year-round format of games.

Agree that's not feasible, and no one ever said it was or ever will.


Sure, and these things can happen somewhat through the school/the school football program.

But they aren't the focus. Exactly because: households are paying beaucoup big bucks individually to have their kids be in private clubs. They pay zero (directly), or they pay very little comparatively, to do the school programs.

Guess which ones get dropped if there is a conflict?


Solution: take the year-round training primarily, but also with a spring contact/competitive period, into the private club format. Now it's the priority.
Click to expand...
WTF are you even saying here?

Year your training in Speed, Strength and Agility is happening already. Some do it through the school and others will do it by going to a training center like ETS.
Spring football will not happen as they already have summer "training camp" . Some schools will do that for quite a bit of the summer and others for a few weeks.
 

One thing that many of you probably aren't aware of is that football is treated as a WHOLE different animal than any other sport during the summer. I guarantee that many high school football teams are violating MSHSL policy with their summer football camps and practices. (Edited below to add emphasis to the important part of number of practices allowed.)

Here is their policy (it does NOT copy and paste well.) The link is here and it's on page 49 once you get there.

Loading…

www.mshsl.org

Policy: The intent of practices in the summer is for the development of individual skills and techniques, with limited contact and physical conditioning. When scheduling and conducting practices, consideration must be given for the weather conditions (heat index).

A. Contact Practice: (i) Only allowed after a minimum of:
• One day of practice with only helmets and mouth guards, followed by:
• Two days of practice with shoulder pads and helmets, followed by:
• One day of practice with full pads.
(ii) These four days do not need to be consecutive, but, if more than three consecutive days pass without a practice as defined above, a new four-day acclimatization period is required before a contact practice can be held.
(iii) After this initial acclimatization period, practices do not need to be consecutive days, but if more than four consecutive days pass without a practice a new four-day acclimatization period is required before a contact practice can be held. Re-acclimatization is not necessary if there are not contact practices and practices do not include heavy conditioning.

B. Number of Practices: During the Summer Coaching Waiver period (June and July) an individual or team may not participate in more than eleven days of practice as defined above, with no more than four practices may be a “Contact Practice” (as defined above). Days and practices at a team camp count toward these limits.

The policy about limiting practices was put in place about 6? years ago with the follow up that ALL other sports would be facing the same restrictions. Of course, that's never happened. They only limit football.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom