High School spring practice

[short ornery norwegian]

My brother is a long-time HS Track and Cross-Country Coach. During the Spring Track season, he deals with kids missing practice and even meets because they are also involved in off-season hockey and Soccer programs. He'll have kids show up at a meet dog-tired because they're doubling up on track practice and hockey during the week.

It's all just too much. these kids are getting pulled in all different directions by their parents, their in-season coaches, their off-season and club coaches, etc. and that's during the school year. during the summer, it's an on-going mix of camps, clinics, 7-on-7 football, AAU basketball, JO Volleyball, American Legion baseball, town-team baseball, summer fast-pitch softball.......it just never ends.

at a big metro school, there are enough kids to keep all these programs supplied. but at a smaller school, it's impossible.

 

[State of Football]

My brother is a long-time HS Track and Cross-Country Coach. During the Spring Track season, he deals with kids missing practice and even meets because they are also involved in off-season hockey and Soccer programs. He'll have kids show up at a meet dog-tired because they're doubling up on track practice and hockey during the week.

It's all just too much. these kids are getting pulled in all different directions by their parents, their in-season coaches, their off-season and club coaches, etc. and that's during the school year. during the summer, it's an on-going mix of camps, clinics, 7-on-7 football, AAU basketball, JO Volleyball, American Legion baseball, town-team baseball, summer fast-pitch softball.......it just never ends.

at a big metro school, there are enough kids to keep all these programs supplied. but at a smaller school, it's impossible.

Agreed

 

[MplsGopher]

My brother is a long-time HS Track and Cross-Country Coach. During the Spring Track season, he deals with kids missing practice and even meets because they are also involved in off-season hockey and Soccer programs. He'll have kids show up at a meet dog-tired because they're doubling up on track practice and hockey during the week.

It's all just too much. these kids are getting pulled in all different directions by their parents, their in-season coaches, their off-season and club coaches, etc. and that's during the school year. during the summer, it's an on-going mix of camps, clinics, 7-on-7 football, AAU basketball, JO Volleyball, American Legion baseball, town-team baseball, summer fast-pitch softball.......it just never ends.

at a big metro school, there are enough kids to keep all these programs supplied. but at a smaller school, it's impossible.

I don't think you should be playing two sports at the same time. Unless it's something like being on the soccer team and just showing up to football games to kick field goals.

 

[disco]

at a big metro school, there are enough kids to keep all these programs supplied. but at a smaller school, it's impossible.

But it's not "enough kids to keep the programs supplied." It's still the same kids because the top performers are the ones playing club AND school sports.

 

[disco]

I don't think you should be playing two sports at the same time. Unless it's something like being on the soccer team and just showing up to football games to kick field goals.

And this is why short season sports like football that don't have an AAU/Club season, are the ones kids drop. When hockey, soccer, basketball etc. are year round kids are expected to keep up with the joneses or fall behind.

 

[MplsGopher]

And this is why short season sports like football that don't have an AAU/Club season, are the ones kids drop. When hockey, soccer, basketball etc. are year round kids are expected to keep up with the joneses or fall behind.

So … make football a year round club sport.

 

[Ope3]

So … make football a year round club sport.

The participation numbers required, injury risk, time commitment, and cost all make the discussion a non-starter in this state.

 

[Word]

The participation numbers required, injury risk, time commitment, and cost all make the discussion a non-starter in this state.

And that's fine...we can't be good at everything. Basketball and hockey are big here and we do pretty well with those.

 

[LeftofThaDial]

I don't think you should be playing two sports at the same time. Unless it's something like being on the soccer team and just showing up to football games to kick field goals.

Last year Rosemount had a kid run track and play baseball in the spring. He was also a football player. His senior year he played in the State championship games in both football and baseball, and won the team State track championship, heck of a way to wrap up HS!

 

[DCinOK]

Here in Oklahoma, track, baseball, all spring sports are done about May 10 so that football gets two weeks of spring ball in before end of school year. Frustrates many track coaches, like me, as we lose warm weather days for faster times...but its all to cater to football.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

I've seen kids play two sports at one time. Windom had a kid run cross-country and also played (as a sub) on the Football team. I've seen kids play baseball and also run in track meets - BUT that is done with the understanding and approval of both coaches.

in the case I cited with my brother, you have athletes who are competing in a HS varsity sport and also participating in an off-season club program - and the head coach of the HS program was NOT consulted and did not give prior approval. without naming names, I know of HS girls basketball players who have missed varsity basketball games to participate in JO VB events. that is an entirely different situation.

 

[disco]

in the case I cited with my brother, you have athletes who are competing in a HS varsity sport and also participating in an off-season club program - and the head coach of the HS program was NOT consulted and did not give prior approval. without naming names, I know of HS girls basketball players who have missed varsity basketball games to participate in JO VB events. that is an entirely different situation.

Correct, and there's no prohibition on that. I believe there is a prohibition on playing the SAME sport at the club and high school level in Minnesota at the same time. So no AAU basketball during the high school season. (I could be wrong.)

From what I've heard about volleyball, it's pretty much like hockey, soccer and hoops in terms of the year-round commitment and the cost.

 

[JayBobDobbins]

My kids each play two sports at a larger metro area school, and it can be tough. They both play hockey and it's basically year round. However we go by the old rule that whatever season you're in comes first. There's been arguments with other kids/coaches about missing things, but whatever. In the summer, baseball comes before hockey every single time. If the coaches/other players don't like it, F-em.

My one kid skates all year round and plays baseball about 9 months out of the year. There are days this time of the year where he's tired or sore and doesn't want to go to offseason baseball. So he skips it, which is A-ok with me. Gotta be reasonable about it, and like someone else said let them be kids for crying out loud.

In my experience here in MN, the hockey people are the craziest. Some expect the kids to miss anything for an offseason hockey practice/game/tourney, etc. I can't imagine missing a high school basketball game during the season for a club volleyball (or any other sport from another season). Cripes, just don't play basketball then. You're taking a spot from another kid who'd kill to have that spot (assuming it's varsity).

It's all a bit different in smaller/rural schools where there's maybe not enough kids to fill in the gaps. My experience is only in the metro area.

 

[disco]

In my experience here in MN, the hockey people are the craziest. Some expect the kids to miss anything for an offseason hockey practice/game/tourney, etc. I can't imagine missing a high school basketball game during the season for a club volleyball (or any other sport from another season). Cripes, just don't play basketball then. You're taking a spot from another kid who'd kill to have that spot (assuming it's varsity).

I've said it before, at the youth level, we've had kids miss football games for hockey tryouts. It's frustrating.

My wife was shocked when the neighbor said their son has to miss school on a Friday a few times a year to go to hockey tournaments. He was in third grade.

I think there are some high level club sports, though I'm not sure in Minnesota, that prohibit their players from playing the sport on their high school team.

 

[JayBobDobbins]

I've said it before, at the youth level, we've had kids miss football games for hockey tryouts. It's frustrating.

My wife was shocked when the neighbor said their son has to miss school on a Friday a few times a year to go to hockey tournaments. He was in third grade.

I think there are some high level club sports, though I'm not sure in Minnesota, that prohibit their players from playing the sport on their high school team.

Don't doubt it one bit about missing football games for Tryouts. Tryouts, at least at larger associations, can last for about 2 weeks for PeeWee and Bantam aged kids. That's bound to interfere with other sports like football. My kids didn't play a fall sport, so we never ran into that, but I'd have a hard time missing an actual football game (or any game for the in season sport) for tryouts. That's stupid.

My kids have missed school many times for hockey tournaments. I recall my older kid missing part of a Thursday and all Friday in 3rd grade to go to Fargo for a tourney.

That's nuts that a club team wouldn't allow the kids to play on the high school team. That's BS. My kids love their school teams because it's with their friends, they'd never want to miss those.

 

[State of Football]

AAU basketball is slimy. I’m sure there are quality organizations and teams but it is the epitome of checkbook sports. Groups like Breakdown are simply for profit enterprises.

 

[jovs]

Interesting discussion, back in the 80's I coached a 9th grade football team, high schools were 10 to 12 so team was independent of schools, late in the season the hockey issue always came up. Rule was clear, you miss practice you don't play. Hockey couldn't survive without these kids and football was important, I never had a kid miss a practice and hockey worked around football or excused those kids from tryouts during the football season.

 

[Word]

Interesting discussion, back in the 80's I coached a 9th grade football team, high schools were 10 to 12 so team was independent of schools, late in the season the hockey issue always came up. Rule was clear, you miss practice you don't play. Hockey couldn't survive without these kids and football was important, I never had a kid miss a practice and hockey worked around football or excused those kids from tryouts during the football season.

Club sports are very, very different now than in the 80s...but I am sure you knew that already. I was playing club (non-school) soccer in the late 80s and now have had my own 2 kids in club soccer and volleyball. I can say club soccer is an entirely different animal now than it was in the 80s. I'm sure hockey is even more demanding.

 

[disco]

AAU basketball is slimy. I’m sure there are quality organizations and teams but it is the epitome of checkbook sports. Groups like Breakdown are simply for profit enterprises.

It's really slimy. Club volleyball can be too. I was reading that club volleyball costs $3000-5000 before travel costs and uniforms/gear.

 

[disco]

Interesting discussion, back in the 80's I coached a 9th grade football team, high schools were 10 to 12 so team was independent of schools, late in the season the hockey issue always came up. Rule was clear, you miss practice you don't play. Hockey couldn't survive without these kids and football was important, I never had a kid miss a practice and hockey worked around football or excused those kids from tryouts during the football season.

I can tell you now, where I coach, the hockey association does not care one whit about any other groups, sports, activities, etc. Your tryout time is your time. Miss it, and they will bump you to the bottom team. Miss practice, don't play. Some of the old timers in the football assn. get really upset about it.

And they KNOW they can get away with it. The way youth football is set up, the teams are spread fairly thin to guarantee playing time and with rotation rules, weight limits. etc. it's really difficult to plug holes. I'd love to be able to bench a kid for missing practice, but we simply can't do it.

One coach asked why kids are missing football for hockey out of traditional hockey season. The answer was simple. Parents pay thousands of dollars in fees, equipment, camps etc. for kids to play hockey. Football is about $300 plus shoes and shoulder pads. It's a no brainer. I hate it, but I get it. At least the basketball association works with us on their tryouts.

 

[fatgopher]

I can tell you now, where I coach, the hockey association does not care one whit about any other groups, sports, activities, etc. Your tryout time is your time. Miss it, and they will bump you to the bottom team. Miss practice, don't play. Some of the old timers in the football assn. get really upset about it.

And they KNOW they can get away with it. The way youth football is set up, the teams are spread fairly thin to guarantee playing time and with rotation rules, weight limits. etc. it's really difficult to plug holes. I'd love to be able to bench a kid for missing practice, but we simply can't do it.

One coach asked why kids are missing football for hockey out of traditional hockey season. The answer was simple. Parents pay thousands of dollars in fees, equipment, camps etc. for kids to play hockey. Football is about $300 plus shoes and shoulder pads. It's a no brainer. I hate it, but I get it. At least the basketball association works with us on their tryouts.

Parents also know that football is not the skill sport that hockey/basketball/baseball are, it has become a secondary sport for most. A good athlete can "try" football for the first time as a freshman and coach will find a role for him. You can't simply "try" hockey/basketball/baseball competitively for the first time in the metro area and expect to contribute at the older ages.

 

[FredCoxRocks]

AAU basketball is slimy. I’m sure there are quality organizations and teams but it is the epitome of checkbook sports. Groups like Breakdown are simply for profit enterprises.

It's really slimy. Club volleyball can be too. I was reading that club volleyball costs $3000-5000 before travel costs and uniforms/gear.

Yup.

"I've seen your daughter play and she's pretty good, but there are some things I think she could work on to improve her game...things that we coach at Acme Volleyball Club. With some dedication she may even get a college scholarship, like some of our past players. Now if you'll just put down a $500 deposit to secure her place we can get her started and make her volleyball career a success!".

Yeah, paraphrasing, but this is basically the pitch her and a few other girls on her 16U JO team received a few years ago.

 

[disco]

Yup.

"I've seen your daughter play and she's pretty good, but there are some things I think she could work on to improve her game...things that we coach at Acme Volleyball Club. With some dedication she may even get a college scholarship, like some of our past players. Now if you'll just put down a $500 deposit to secure her place we can get her started and make her volleyball career a success!".

Yeah, paraphrasing, but this is basically the pitch her and a few other girls on her 16U JO team received a few years ago.

Ish. It's like a timeshare pitch.
The daughter of a friend of mine was a three-sport athlete (VB, BB, Track) at a large metro school. She never played club, because my friend wouldn't pay for it. She played VB for St. Thomas when they won the D3 Natty. But that's really rare these days.

 

[MplsGopher]

The participation numbers required, injury risk, time commitment, and cost all make the discussion a non-starter in this state.

It has absolutely nothing to do with “this state”.

If it works in Texas, it can work just fine in the MSP metro. At least for wealthy families.

I’m not calling for there to be a club team for every high school in the state.

I’m only even suggesting that maybe there might be one club to start, filled mainly with college prospects in the Wayzata, EP, Tonka, MG systems.

They want to be serious and decide that round football training is correct for them, no different than families who decide year round volleyball is right for them.


Maybe it’s 7 on 7 positions to start.

Just saying, it is possible. You’re false to say it’s impossible.

 

[MplsGopher]

It's really slimy. Club volleyball can be too. I was reading that club volleyball costs $3000-5000 before travel costs and uniforms/gear.

No one forces any family to play. Some clubs have five teams for an age year. Obviously not all those girls are going to play college. If you want to play on a team and your family can afford it, they’re not going to turn you down nor should they.

It should be and is about more than college prep, now. It’s (also, now) about friendship, playing on a competitive team not just some rec team through the city where no one cares, playing and focusing on a game/activity they you like.

Paying rent on the faculty, finding and paying coaches for all the teams, it’s expensive as hell. Everything is these days.

 

[Ope3]

It has absolutely nothing to do with “this state”.

If it works in Texas, it can work just fine in the MSP metro. At least for wealthy families.

I’m not calling for there to be a club team for every high school in the state.

I’m only even suggesting that maybe there might be one club to start, filled mainly with college prospects in the Wayzata, EP, Tonka, MG systems.

They want to be serious and decide that round football training is correct for them, no different than families who decide year round volleyball is right for them.


Maybe it’s 7 on 7 positions to start.

Just saying, it is possible. You’re false to say it’s impossible.

If there was a will there would be a way. There is no will and I don't ever see that changing.

 

[MplsGopher]

I can tell you now, where I coach, the hockey association does not care one whit about any other groups, sports, activities, etc. Your tryout time is your time. Miss it, and they will bump you to the bottom team. Miss practice, don't play. Some of the old timers in the football assn. get really upset about it.

And they KNOW they can get away with it. The way youth football is set up, the teams are spread fairly thin to guarantee playing time and with rotation rules, weight limits. etc. it's really difficult to plug holes. I'd love to be able to bench a kid for missing practice, but we simply can't do it.

One coach asked why kids are missing football for hockey out of traditional hockey season. The answer was simple. Parents pay thousands of dollars in fees, equipment, camps etc. for kids to play hockey. Football is about $300 plus shoes and shoulder pads. It's a no brainer. I hate it, but I get it. At least the basketball association works with us on their tryouts.

And here I’m saying: football could fight back.

If you make a football club, it will cost a lot. Don’t have to rent ice time, but renting indoor field space probably isn’t cheap either.

If the family is paying top dollar for it, that will be the priority.

 

[MplsGopher]

There is no will

Nonsense. You don’t get to speak for anyone.

Supply can create demand.

Year round club is the new way. Football is just taking longer to catch up.

It won’t be for everyone, nor am I suggesting it should be.

 

[disco]

Nonsense. You don’t get to speak for anyone.

Supply can create demand.

Year round club is the new way. Football is just taking longer to catch up.

It won’t be for everyone, nor am I suggesting it should be.

Tell us again about how the Pac-12 will stay together with a new TV contract too.

 

[Ope3]

Nonsense. You don’t get to speak for anyone.

Supply can create demand.

Year round club is the new way. Football is just taking longer to catch up.

It won’t be for everyone, nor am I suggesting it should be.

Not going to happen.