Gophers guard Both Gach is expected to enter the transfer portal

[stocker08]

the roster exodus and the outlook for next seasons W-L record.

Very very few coaches walk into a winning season the year after a coach is fired. Anything that "falls" on Coyle for next years performance will be from the few fans who are too dull to realize that we were highly unlikely to be good anyways.

 

[bc2211]

Very very few coaches walk into a winning season the year after a coach is fired. Anything that "falls" on Coyle for next years performance will be from the few fans who are too dull to realize that we were highly unlikely to be good anyways.

We’ll see how it shakes out, but firing a coach in a free transfer year and replacing with an unproven coach has created an uphill battle. The firing could be correct, BJ could end up being more than competent.... and he could still struggle to put together a full roster, struggle to compete, and struggle to convince 2022 that he knows what he’s doing. At this point in time, a scholarship at the U seems to hold no value. The product on the court next year will go a long way to appease or confirm those concerns. Having a group of experienced big 10 players to gauge with would have helped.

 

[Pete smith]

High achieving people love him and playing for him. He's wound tight, but it's energy filled and he's so good at teaching. He is very player focused and was big on developing guys. His practices were phenomenal.

How do you know this to be true?

 

[cjbfbp]

It has been shut down for all intents and purposes . This is the real attempt to build from the ground up. A long missed foundation.

I don't think you can say that for the upcoming year because most of these recruits are short-timers.

 

[cjbfbp]

At this point in time, a scholarship at the U seems to hold no value.

I wouldn't say that. The coach did get 6 transfer commits after all.

 

[SanDiegoGopherFan]

Very very few coaches walk into a winning season the year after a coach is fired. Anything that "falls" on Coyle for next years performance will be from the few fans who are too dull to realize that we were highly unlikely to be good anyways.

I don't agree with that. When the season ended, we all knew Carr was most likely gonna test the NBA again and maybe Brandon Johnson might be gone, but beyond that, nobody expected this exodus.

and if you did, you must be some sort of genius insider.

This team was a top 25 team until injuries started to happen, you can not deny that because you can look up when this team was ranked.

So the excitement of bringing in a new coach who could help us in two areas was great.

One: Develop a bench

Two: Help guys to take shots that make sense, aka, stop taking so many damn 3's.

So If you knew that when Pitino was fired, we'd have only 1 person from last years team left on this roster, you should have said so.

 

[Block M]

Next year will be brutal but I'm still kind of excited to see what the future holds with Coach Johnson. Pitino would have had us in the mix for the NCAA tourney next year but the ceiling with his program at MN had probably been reached. Ceiling is higher for Johnson; but the floor...

 

[PeterMac05]

First of all, if you guys didn’t see this coming than you are idiots, I also remember the same people complaining now that would have gotten rid of pitino at all costs a couple months ago. We knew this was gonna happen so we gotta deal with it. If we are bad next year than so be it, but the guys we have coming in now are very experienced, talented and more than anything else, want to be here. Now it could be a bad thing 12 months from now when most of these guys don’t have time left, but we can cross that bridge when we get there. I have no doubt in my mind that our 22’ class will be great, either from studs or quantity of players or hopefully both. This is not the end of the world, we will be just fine.

 

[MennoSota]

Not even sure why I’m responding, but really? I’m not sure what the implication of your post is, but he looked fine/professional.

Many Ben Johnson haters are coming across as racists. Let's just put that on the table. They are butt hurt that the Snake (Coyle) didn't pick their guy and now they look for anything to complain about regarding Ben Johnson. Haters gonna hate. I am sitting back and watching. Ben has experienced coaches around him. He's working hard. This job is just a hard place to build tradition. Not since Clem have we had a stable system and Clem took awhile before he had a solid group who could establish a culture. Then...Ganglehoff...

 

[beavergopher]

I hope they saved the cardboard cutouts.

 

[cjbfbp]

So far, the guys Ben has recruited were not good enough to be Gophers when they came out of high school. But their desire was to be Gophers. Given the opportunity they were excited to be Gophers. That is not what I'd call recruiting...that is filling out the low hanging paperwork.

This is a classic example of the simple minded reasoning that appears to be all too prevalent around here. This statement is based on the following dubious assumptions:

1) High schools ratings are the standard for judging player quality;

2) Development, or lack of, after high school is irrelevant;

3) The players we recruited out of high school were the best players we could have recruited and those that we didn't offer then would have been worse than the ones who played here.

The last one may be the most ridiculous considering the dubious quality of some players coming through here in the last eight years.

Dwayne Wade and Russell Westbrook were nowhere to be found among the Consensus Top 100 players coming out of high school. Damian Lillard was rated a 2 star. Charles Barkley received one offer coming out of high school and that was because the Auburn assistant coach attended a state playoff game to scout a player on the opposing team.

Of course, a player we just lost to the transfer portal, Liam Robbins, received no D1 offers coming out of high school.

 

[stocker08]

We’ll see how it shakes out, but firing a coach in a free transfer year and replacing with an unproven coach has created an uphill battle. The firing could be correct, BJ could end up being more than competent.... and he could still struggle to put together a full roster, struggle to compete, and struggle to convince 2022 that he knows what he’s doing. At this point in time, a scholarship at the U seems to hold no value. The product on the court next year will go a long way to appease or confirm those concerns. Having a group of experienced big 10 players to gauge with would have helped.

Has it? We were going to lose our best few players with the firing regardless. Unless you are suggesting that we should have kept Pitino?

 

[stocker08]

I don't agree with that. When the season ended, we all knew Carr was most likely gonna test the NBA again and maybe Brandon Johnson might be gone, but beyond that, nobody expected this exodus.

and if you did, you must be some sort of genius insider.

This team was a top 25 team until injuries started to happen, you can not deny that because you can look up when this team was ranked.

So the excitement of bringing in a new coach who could help us in two areas was great.

One: Develop a bench

Two: Help guys to take shots that make sense, aka, stop taking so many damn 3's.

So If you knew that when Pitino was fired, we'd have only 1 person from last years team left on this roster, you should have said so.

Liam Robbins had no connection beyond his uncle. Mashburn came here specifically because of Pitino. After those two....which guys on our roster were must keeps for the future? Carr, Johnson, Robbins, and Mashburn were arguably our top four....and none seemed likely to stay. Robbins could have been retained if his uncle remained. That's not a Brandon Johnson issue. You think a more established coach would have kept him on just to keep Robbins for another year? Embrace reality.

So.....if you are going to make an argument....at least try to sound like you are even somewhat in tuned with reality. Because right now...you sound completely unhinged.

 

[Boomtime]

As long as fans keep expectations low, they won't be disappointed.

Everyone knew this would be a MAJOR rebuild.

Give the new HC a chance. This isn't like Fleck taking over a 9 win team in football.

 

[bc2211]

Has it? We were going to lose our best few players with the firing regardless. Unless you are suggesting that we should have kept Pitino?

It’s a weird ass year and Pitino deserved his firing without a doubt. I think it was the wrong year to hire a coach without a history. I’m open to giving it 3 years, but right now we have 8? On the roster

 

[Northeastgopher]

It seems completely fair that you could want Pitino fired but also expect more from a new coach than this shit show

 

[Ho Jon]

Next year will be brutal but I'm still kind of excited to see what the future holds with Coach Johnson. Pitino would have had us in the mix for the NCAA tourney next year but the ceiling with his program at MN had probably been reached. Ceiling is higher for Johnson; but the floor...

How do you come to the conclusion that Johnson has a higher ceiling? Not really disputing it, but not sure how anyone can reasonably make that conclusion without any past history.

 

[Ho Jon]

Many Ben Johnson haters are coming across as racists. Let's just put that on the table. They are butt hurt that the Snake (Coyle) didn't pick their guy and now they look for anything to complain about regarding Ben Johnson. Haters gonna hate. I am sitting back and watching. Ben has experienced coaches around him. He's working hard. This job is just a hard place to build tradition. Not since Clem have we had a stable system and Clem took awhile before he had a solid group who could establish a culture. Then...Ganglehoff...

This is idiotic. No one is pissed that Coyle hired a black coach. They are pissed that he hired a coach with absolutely ZERO head coaching experience in one of the best conferences in the nation when there were plenty of coaches that had good experience with interest.

"Let's just put that on the table." Put it on the table all you want, but you are an idiot if you think that's the reason people are mad about the hire. And, for the record, people are not mad at Ben or hope that he falls apart and fails miserably. He was not qualified for a job of this caliber; it's that simple. I hope he does really well, but I fear he is in over his head.

 

[stocker08]

It’s a weird ass year and Pitino deserved his firing without a doubt. I think it was the wrong year to hire a coach without a history. I’m open to giving it 3 years, but right now we have 8? On the roster

I think Coyle would have had more questions to answer if he had kept Pitino. And he clearly had an idea of who he wanted/what direction he wanted to take. Unfortunate timing I suppose. But should Coyle have decided to go in a different direction to possibly salvage this upcoming year at the expense of the future? I'd say no.

 

[MennoSota]

This is idiotic. No one is pissed that Coyle hired a black coach. They are pissed that he hired a coach with absolutely ZERO head coaching experience in one of the best conferences in the nation when there were plenty of coaches that had good experience with interest.

"Let's just put that on the table." Put it on the table all you want, but you are an idiot if you think that's the reason people are mad about the hire. And, for the record, people are not mad at Ben or hope that he falls apart and fails miserably. He was not qualified for a job of this caliber; it's that simple. I hope he does really well, but I fear he is in over his head.

Say what you will, but a white guy named Pitino with less experience got hired and no one trashed him like they're trashing Ben Johnson. If you can't make the connection... that's on you.

 

[stocker08]

This is idiotic. No one is pissed that Coyle hired a black coach. They are pissed that he hired a coach with absolutely ZERO head coaching experience in one of the best conferences in the nation when there were plenty of coaches that had good experience with interest.

"Let's just put that on the table." Put it on the table all you want, but you are an idiot if you think that's the reason people are mad about the hire. And, for the record, people are not mad at Ben or hope that he falls apart and fails miserably. He was not qualified for a job of this caliber; it's that simple. I hope he does really well, but I fear he is in over his head.

Both Minnesota and Xavier are major NCAAB programs. He has been an assistant at both for nearly a combined ten years. Johnson knows what the job entails.

It seems like everyone making the "qualified!" argument feel like the longer you coach....the better you get. Like if you haven't actually been the head coach....you don't understand the X's and O's or don't truly understand how an offense works. It's nonsense.

 

[benlaur]

Very very few coaches walk into a winning season the year after a coach is fired. Anything that "falls" on Coyle for next years performance will be from the few fans who are too dull to realize that we were highly unlikely to be good anyways.

That is not winning thinking.

Winners say things like, "in spite of", "despite the odds", "overcome", etc... Noone who is winning uses excuses...they own problems/mistakes and problem solve relative to the situation.

Not sure what is going on, but the last thing we need is excuses, which almosts assures failure.

Let's give Johnson the chance to do his thing and then assess from actual results on the court. In the meantime, sure is a crazy year!

 

[stocker08]

That is not winning thinking.

Winners say things like, "in spite of", "despite the odds", "overcome", etc... Noone who is winning uses excuses...they own problems/mistakes and problem solve relative to the situation.

Not sure what is going on, but the last thing we need is excuses, which almosts assures failure.

Let's give Johnson the chance to do his thing and then assess from actual results on the court. In the meantime, sure is a crazy year!

I am thinking realistically. Many teams that are winning lots now have a coach that had a tough first year. That's reality. And I am not assuming that this will be a failure of a year. I am addressing the silly folks that want to call this hiring a failed experiment if we stink this year.

 

[swanyj]

All of you Pitino haters got what you wanted and now look at the state of affairs. A total disaster. The players have all left (some needed to go but not all) and the players coming in are not near the caliber of those that left. Pitino made lots of mistakes...not denying that ... But his firing and the hiring of Ben Johnson was a mistake. It will take Johnson years to turn this around and I would say it will be longer than if Pitino was kept along with the players and additions that he was going to bring in.

All the things that people complained about with Pitino were the same complaints that were said of Tubby, Monson, and yes...to a certain degree Haskins. But now we have a dumpster fire with an unproven coach and it appears no one wants to even come here. At least with Pitino there were still players that wanted to play here...and who cares if they were from MN or not. That is just a bunch of crap about needing to get MN players.

 

[Ho Jon]

Say what you will, but a white guy named Pitino with less experience got hired and no one trashed him like they're trashing Ben Johnson. If you can't make the connection... that's on you.

He did not have less experience. He worked for two hall of famers and was an actual head coach. That's on you, dumbass.

 

[Gopher Teeth]

Many Ben Johnson haters are coming across as racists. Let's just put that on the table. They are butt hurt that the Snake (Coyle) didn't pick their guy and now they look for anything to complain about regarding Ben Johnson. Haters gonna hate. I am sitting back and watching. Ben has experienced coaches around him. He's working hard. This job is just a hard place to build tradition. Not since Clem have we had a stable system and Clem took awhile before he had a solid group who could establish a culture. Then...Ganglehoff...

Right because if they would have hired a white coach with no HC experience and then the entire team left, lost committed recruits, then started to fill the team with low-mid majors, no P6 level talent transferring in, huge holes in the roster that look like they won't be filled with B1G level talent, etc we all would have been excited because he was white, yup you nailed it. You see color cause you choose to.

 

[cjbfbp]

I am thinking realistically. Many teams that are winning lots now have a coach that had a tough first year. That's reality.

Or, how about a tough first four years like Scott Drew at Baylor; he opened his tenure with four consecutive losing seasons. In fact, his teams won a combined 21 games over the first three years. The 15-16 record in the fourth season must have looked like a major improvement at the time.

Now, Drew took over at a time when Baylor put itself on probation and afterwards faced additional NCAA sanctions after the Bliss tenure. Before Drew took over, the school gave every player on the team a full release. Come to think of it, the starting conditions for Drew sound similar to the Gophers' current situation except this program isn't facing sanctions.

 

[MennoSota]

Right because if they would have hired a white coach with no HC experience and then the entire team left, lost committed recruits, then filled the team with low-mid majors, no P6 level talent transferring in, huge holes in the roster that look like they won't be filled with B1G level talent, etc we all would have been excited because he was white, yup you nailed it. You see color cause you choose to.

Ifs and buts...
Perhaps let the process work it's way out before whining to high heaven.
The fact is that no one whined, like they are now, when Pitino was hired and had a less qualified coaching staff.

Have some damn patience.

 

[bc2211]

I think Coyle would have had more questions to answer if he had kept Pitino. And he clearly had an idea of who he wanted/what direction he wanted to take. Unfortunate timing I suppose. But should Coyle have decided to go in a different direction to possibly salvage this upcoming year at the expense of the future? I'd say no.

I don’t care at all about the upcoming year and think the firing was justified. But I still think the hire itself was bad. Not because BJ himself is possibly a bad coach, but because he’s been put into a really bad position to prove himself. He is climbing up a mountain while most hires have a small hill. IMO “unfortunate timing I suppose” is more like “the AD executed this transaction really poorly”.

 

[bc2211]

Or, how about a tough first four years like Scott Drew at Baylor; he opened his tenure with four consecutive losing seasons. In fact, his teams won a combined 21 games over the first three years. The 15-16 record in the fourth season must have looked like a major improvement at the time.

Now, Drew took over at a time when Baylor put itself on probation and afterwards faced additional NCAA sanctions after the Bliss tenure. Before Drew took over, the school gave every player on the team a full release. Come to think of it, the starting conditions for Drew sound similar to the Gophers' current situation except this program isn't facing sanctions.

I’ll take that outcome 100%.