Gophers guard Both Gach is expected to enter the transfer portal

MennoSota

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He did not have less experience. He worked for two hall of famers and was an actual head coach. That's on you, dumbass.
His white privileged ass got him all his spots when he didn't deserve them, yet you didn't say a word. Now a black man, working for a living, gets a shot and you whine to highest heaven. That's on you.
 

stocker08

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I don’t care at all about the upcoming year and think the firing was justified. But I still think the hire itself was bad. Not because BJ himself is possibly a bad coach, but because he’s been put into a really bad position to prove himself. He is climbing up a mountain while most hires have a small hill. IMO “unfortunate timing I suppose” is more like “the AD executed this transaction really poorly”.

It's a combination of both. Just have to have faith that Johnson can grow into the position. I have no reason to think he cannot at his moment in time. And unless somebody has a crystal ball handy....they cannot assume a failure.
 

Minnesara

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Say what you will, but a white guy named Pitino with less experience got hired and no one trashed him like they're trashing Ben Johnson. If you can't make the connection... that's on you.
Define “less experience.” Pitino at least had some HC experience. Johnson has none. Like it or not, Pitino also had connections because of his name. Johnson has none of that. Bottom line is that we are left wondering why Johnson was hired. People like Souhan created that question. I’m hoping greatly that Johnson turns into a great coach but I see this as a major crapshoot. Even riskier than the Pitino hire.
 

cjbfbp

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He did not have less experience. He worked for two hall of famers and was an actual head coach. That's on you, dumbass.

This claim is easily deconstructed. Johnson has more coaching experience overall than Pitino did when he was hired. Pitino was a head coach for only one year. Few learn that much from a complex job in one year. As for the two Hall of Famers he assisted, we can put an asterisk by both names. One was his father and the other was a protege (as a player and as a coach) who owed the highlights of his playing career and the start of his coaching career to the father. No way Billy Donovan was going to turn down Rick Pitino's son.

A frequently made claim around here by Pitino supporters was that he needed to mature in the job. Whether he did learn a lot over his tenure is debatable because the overall record of his last four years (51.6%) was slightly worse than the overall record of his first four (55.1%).
 

Holy Man

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It's a combination of both. Just have to have faith that Johnson can grow into the position. I have no reason to think he cannot at his moment in time. And unless somebody has a crystal ball handy....they cannot assume a failure.
The first month on the job has not inspired confidence. That isn't a predictor of future failure, but there hasn't been any immediate evidence of greener pastures going forward. Your fair-minded enthusiasm is noble, but I think it should be noted that it is enthusiasm and appropriately giving the guy a shot, not any actual data suggesting things are moving forward.

The critiques about not being able to sell immediate playing time to guys you have a previous relationship with are valid, and I would say are just short of alarming. We can't ignore that. Seeing other programs in similar circumstances more quickly rebuild rosters with players who have backgrounds that suggest they can play is discouraging to say the least. I'm not as concerned by the exodus as I am about the failure to fill the roster with serviceable players.

My concerns are many, but the biggest is how much momentum plays into college sports today. Next year is a disaster. No one will be broken up by that. But the risk of a disaster of a 22 recruiting class, followed by another miserable season is high. The hole could get too deep quickly, and all the culture and character in the world might not dig us out of it. If anger gives way to apathy, we could be looking at football like doldrums for basketball.
 


stocker08

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The first month on the job has not inspired confidence. That isn't a predictor of future failure, but there hasn't been any immediate evidence of greener pastures going forward. Your fair-minded enthusiasm is noble, but I think it should be noted that it is enthusiasm and appropriately giving the guy a shot, not any actual data suggesting things are moving forward.

The critiques about not being able to sell immediate playing time to guys you have a previous relationship with are valid, and I would say are just short of alarming. We can't ignore that. Seeing other programs in similar circumstances more quickly rebuild rosters with players who have backgrounds that suggest they can play is discouraging to say the least. I'm not as concerned by the exodus as I am about the failure to fill the roster with serviceable players.

My concerns are many, but the biggest is how much momentum plays into college sports today. Next year is a disaster. No one will be broken up by that. But the risk of a disaster of a 22 recruiting class, followed by another miserable season is high. The hole could get too deep quickly, and all the culture and character in the world might not dig us out of it. If anger gives way to apathy, we could be looking at football like doldrums for basketball.

There was no reason to think any of the top four guys were staying. Except Brandon Johnson. But if he wants to contend in his last year....that doesn't surprise me either. Sucks to see all of the turnover....but outside of those guys....I don't see any that are major losses. We really don't even know BJs thoughts on all of this. Some of them he may have seen as expendable. I'll wait until we see what the '22 class brings before passing judgement. I still refuse to call the upcoming year lost.
 

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High achieving people love him and playing for him. He's wound tight, but it's energy filled and he's so good at teaching. He is very player focused and was big on developing guys. His practices were phenomenal.
Sounds like he should be the head coach.
 

GopherBlood666

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Say what you will, but a white guy named Pitino with less experience got hired and no one trashed him like they're trashing Ben Johnson. If you can't make the connection... that's on you.
Were you on vacation when every thread inevitably devolved into a fire Pitino discussion? It seemed that way since at least the end of the 2018-19 season. He has been trashed relentlessly for years...
 

Gopherfan1000

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Hey! I remember when we almost lost to Alabama who had 3 guys. Unfortunately, this might be our whole season, playing 3 on 5. Odds are we stay within 30 points of any Big 10 team is going to be very miniscule.
 



MennoSota

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Were you on vacation when every thread inevitably devolved into a fire Pitino discussion? It seemed that way since at least the end of the 2018-19 season. He has been trashed relentlessly for years...
How many years did Pitino get at UMN?
 

Ho Jon

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His white privileged ass got him all his spots when he didn't deserve them, yet you didn't say a word. Now a black man, working for a living, gets a shot and you whine to highest heaven. That's on you.
First off, I think there were a lot of people bitching about the Pitino hire. You're right, I didn't. Because I wasn't a posting member at that time moron. A Niko Medved hire would not have caused as much consternation as a Ben Johnson hire. Fact. He has actual experience as a head coach. He wasn't the most qualified, but at least he has experience.

Second, I'm not whining to highest heaven. Read my post; I've quite clearly stated what the issues are and I hope that I'm dead wrong and I hope that he proves my concerns invalid. If you can't see that because you don't have the reading comprehension, that's on you. This will be my last response to you because I'm allowing a dipshit to waste my time.

Good luck you.
 

MennoSota

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LOL, people getting all defensive when called out for playing an excessive chicken little card.
 

Ewert86PC

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I agree with this and I’m guessing Ben doesn’t want anybody feeling sorry for him either. He’s making almost $2mm a year and has the support of his boss. Things will eventually be fine.
I hope that is enough for him to succeed. The way certain media outlets are loading the negativity and targeting football combined with the Regents willingness to take the bait and feel the need to comment on them only doubles down on the Administration's animus towards UMN Athletics.
 



GopherBlood666

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How many years did Pitino get at UMN?
Probably 3-4 more than he deserved which became very obvious this season, besides your gripe was with this board not who dictates the head coaching position. His overdue departure was not in the hands of gopher hole, so are you now accusing Coyle of being the racist?
 

MennoSota

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Probably 3-4 more than he deserved which became very obvious this season, besides your gripe was with this board not who dictates the head coaching position. His overdue departure was not in the hands of gopher hole, so are you now accusing Coyle of being the racist?
I am pointing out how different the response to Pitino was in comparison with Johnson
 

howeda7

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The first month on the job has not inspired confidence. That isn't a predictor of future failure, but there hasn't been any immediate evidence of greener pastures going forward. Your fair-minded enthusiasm is noble, but I think it should be noted that it is enthusiasm and appropriately giving the guy a shot, not any actual data suggesting things are moving forward.

The critiques about not being able to sell immediate playing time to guys you have a previous relationship with are valid, and I would say are just short of alarming. We can't ignore that. Seeing other programs in similar circumstances more quickly rebuild rosters with players who have backgrounds that suggest they can play is discouraging to say the least. I'm not as concerned by the exodus as I am about the failure to fill the roster with serviceable players.

My concerns are many, but the biggest is how much momentum plays into college sports today. Next year is a disaster. No one will be broken up by that. But the risk of a disaster of a 22 recruiting class, followed by another miserable season is high. The hole could get too deep quickly, and all the culture and character in the world might not dig us out of it. If anger gives way to apathy, we could be looking at football like doldrums for basketball.
Pretty much this. The only positive thing that has happened since he was hired is the hiring of Thorson, which was pretty much a given. Poaching a coach from a power 5 school like A&M would have been a positive. Didn't happen. Poaching some transfers from a Power 5 school would have helped. Hasn't happened. Not even 1. Keeping the # of transfers out under 50% of the roster would have been a good sign. Nope.

We don't know how the story ends. We only know there are red flags at this stage.
 

GopherBlood666

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I am pointing out how different the response to Pitino was in comparison with Johnson
I'm telling you there isn't. You stated Pitino was never criticized this harshly, which is why I asked if you were on vacation from GH for the last 3 seasons. I have only been on GH since the 2018-2019 season, and the entire time there was a large portion of poster who either wanted him gone or had zero respect. Nicknames like "lil' Ricky" and "Dick Pit" get thrown around fairly often and several citing the only reason he got the job in the first place was his name. It may not have been as negative initially due to his dad being a hall of famer and his one season as a HC prior looked somewhat promising. Many indicate though they were upset from day 1 with the hire. If anything, I think Ben is getting far more benefit of doubt at this time because there is nothing other than this spring recruiting to currently judge him on. Most criticism was surrounding Coyle and the process used to hire Johnson. Ben doesn't get to hide from criticism either way, he should not only expect it but embrace it as the head coach of a major CBB program.
 

SanDiegoGopherFan

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This claim is easily deconstructed. Johnson has more coaching experience overall than Pitino did when he was hired. Pitino was a head coach for only one year. Few learn that much from a complex job in one year. As for the two Hall of Famers he assisted, we can put an asterisk by both names. One was his father and the other was a protege (as a player and as a coach) who owed the highlights of his playing career and the start of his coaching career to the father. No way Billy Donovan was going to turn down Rick Pitino's son.

A frequently made claim around here by Pitino supporters was that he needed to mature in the job. Whether he did learn a lot over his tenure is debatable because the overall record of his last four years (51.6%) was slightly worse than the overall record of his first four (55.1%).

Ok, so based on your opinion, being an assistant at a blue blood program is the same as being an assistant here. Got it.
 

SanDiegoGopherFan

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There was no reason to think any of the top four guys were staying. Except Brandon Johnson. But if he wants to contend in his last year....that doesn't surprise me either. Sucks to see all of the turnover....but outside of those guys....I don't see any that are major losses. We really don't even know BJs thoughts on all of this. Some of them he may have seen as expendable. I'll wait until we see what the '22 class brings before passing judgement. I still refuse to call the upcoming year lost.

What? you're talking about a team that was top 25 when healthy last year. Try harder next time.
 

SanDiegoGopherFan

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I am pointing out how different the response to Pitino was in comparison with Johnson

It's simple.

Facts: Pitino was an assistant, regardless of the reasons, at great college programs when he was there.

Facts: Pitino did an incredible job turning around FIU. Many posters wont research historical data, go look up how many players he had to get in his first class and how bad FIU was prior to his arrival, the turn around was technically more impressive than what Gates did at Cleveland State, and I would have been fine with Gates coming here, he was choice #3 if i had one.

Facts: Pitino was lead recruiter for many top prospects at his respective stops while an assistant.

Why Ben is getting the response he is getting.

Facts: He was an assistant at programs that were mediocre at best when he was there.

Facts: He was never a head coach, Pitino turned around a historically losing program in his first year, we have no data for Ben because he was never offered a HC job at any level until now. ANY LEVEL,

Facts: Ben was a lead recruiter for "some" of the better recruits AT MINNESOTA. This part is nice, yes.

So why the "the sky is falling" reaction. Because I think for the most part, this board wanted

A) A local guy or someone with ties to MN (which we all thought we were gonna get besides Gates perhaps)

B) More importantly, someone who has a history of turning around programs.

Ben hits the A part, but not the part we all felt was more crucial, someone with more head coaching experience than 1 year.

Yes, Tubby, whatever, it didn't work out as "well" as we wanted, but he also didn't have any connection to the state, which is why people thought he got lazy at times, i have no idea.

So while this team was a top 25 team last year WHEN HEALTHY, my hope was that the new coach would "sell" current players what he could do with the program to take it to the next level, how he could HELP THEM get BETTER. Instead now we have not just a total rebuild, we don't even have a foundation.

Nobody expected a bare bones rebuild. It's really sad when you look at our targets for 2022 and you see we have 0 on the roster and 0 committed relative to the school we are competing against.
 

short ornery norwegian

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This could be really bad.

If this hire doesn't work out, MN could become the level of program that doesn't win a conference championship or make it past the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament for the next 24 years.

which - come to think of it - is the exact same level of program that MN is right freakin' now.

No conf title since 1997. Haven't gone past the 2nd round of the NCAA since 1997.

so when people are concerned that the program is going to get worse - my response is - when you're on the first floor of the building, it's a short trip to the basement.
 

forever a gopher

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I am pointing out how different the response to Pitino was in comparison with Johnson
Dude, seriously. If you're going to play the race card every time our head coach gets criticized, you're going to be very tired, very soon. You do also understand the nature of our current culture, and how calling everybody a racist really waters down the term and essentially becomes meaningless? If I understand you correctly, we are not to dare criticize the head coach of a P6 basketball program strictly because of his skin color? Do you understand how patronizing that is?

I was skeptical of the Pitino hire, but excited. He had reasonable success in his one year at FIU, and the thought of his dad having input or being able to give advice seemed like a boon. He brought with him a very competent player from FIU, didn't have a mass exodus when he was hired, and proceeded to exceed expectations in his first year (certainly my expectations, and as I remember, that was the general feeling). That bought him a fair amount of leash. He also talked a really big game and "won the press conference", talking about instilling Billy Donovan's press and high-tempo system. In the offseason, you are only able to analyze what's put out there. We don't have anything with Ben, so all we have to analyze is what's transpired so far.

You can argue whether or not the mass exodus is Ben's fault or not. But at the end of the day, we have 1 player remaining. Individually, a lot of arguments can be made about "this or that player isn't really a big loss". And I would largely agree with you. Many have good reasons to leave. But in aggregate, it's not a good look. Take Gabe for example- he has experience with Ben, and even has his former HS coach on staff. And he still leaves for a similar dumpster fire in ISU. I'm not going to criticize Gabe for leaving, that is his right. But at the very least, it's not a good sign/omen.
 


MennoSota

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I'm telling you there isn't. You stated Pitino was never criticized this harshly, which is why I asked if you were on vacation from GH for the last 3 seasons. I have only been on GH since the 2018-2019 season, and the entire time there was a large portion of poster who either wanted him gone or had zero respect. Nicknames like "lil' Ricky" and "Dick Pit" get thrown around fairly often and several citing the only reason he got the job in the first place was his name. It may not have been as negative initially due to his dad being a hall of famer and his one season as a HC prior looked somewhat promising. Many indicate though they were upset from day 1 with the hire. If anything, I think Ben is getting far more benefit of doubt at this time because there is nothing other than this spring recruiting to currently judge him on. Most criticism was surrounding Coyle and the process used to hire Johnson. Ben doesn't get to hide from criticism either way, he should not only expect it but embrace it as the head coach of a major CBB program.
"the last 3 seasons..."
How about "the first 3 months"? Do you see the difference?
 

MennoSota

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It's simple.

Facts: Pitino was an assistant, regardless of the reasons, at great college programs when he was there.

Facts: Pitino did an incredible job turning around FIU. Many posters wont research historical data, go look up how many players he had to get in his first class and how bad FIU was prior to his arrival, the turn around was technically more impressive than what Gates did at Cleveland State, and I would have been fine with Gates coming here, he was choice #3 if i had one.

Facts: Pitino was lead recruiter for many top prospects at his respective stops while an assistant.

Why Ben is getting the response he is getting.

Facts: He was an assistant at programs that were mediocre at best when he was there.

Facts: He was never a head coach, Pitino turned around a historically losing program in his first year, we have no data for Ben because he was never offered a HC job at any level until now. ANY LEVEL,

Facts: Ben was a lead recruiter for "some" of the better recruits AT MINNESOTA. This part is nice, yes.

So why the "the sky is falling" reaction. Because I think for the most part, this board wanted

A) A local guy or someone with ties to MN (which we all thought we were gonna get besides Gates perhaps)

B) More importantly, someone who has a history of turning around programs.

Ben hits the A part, but not the part we all felt was more crucial, someone with more head coaching experience than 1 year.

Yes, Tubby, whatever, it didn't work out as "well" as we wanted, but he also didn't have any connection to the state, which is why people thought he got lazy at times, i have no idea.

So while this team was a top 25 team last year WHEN HEALTHY, my hope was that the new coach would "sell" current players what he could do with the program to take it to the next level, how he could HELP THEM get BETTER. Instead now we have not just a total rebuild, we don't even have a foundation.

Nobody expected a bare bones rebuild. It's really sad when you look at our targets for 2022 and you see we have 0 on the roster and 0 committed relative to the school we are competing against.
Be honest. Many on the board wanted a white guy who they thought could be the messiah who brought Minnesota to new heights. Moreso, Ben Johnson doesn't fit your messiah type.

My point? Sit back and stop your bitching. Let Ben Johnson do his best and in 3 years, judge him against Richard Pitino. Stop trying to crucify him at 3 months.
 

Spaulding!No!

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Once Ben Johnson blames the arena - fire him. Do not wait for another game. Simply fire him.
 

bga1

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Be honest. Many on the board wanted a white guy who they thought could be the messiah who brought Minnesota to new heights. Moreso, Ben Johnson doesn't fit your messiah type.

My point? Sit back and stop your bitching. Let Ben Johnson do his best and in 3 years, judge him against Richard Pitino. Stop trying to crucify him at 3 months.
Nobody on this board wanted specifically a white coach. Nobody. That post is complete garbage. What we all want is a winner and a coach selected for competence not color. I like Ben, it's going to be a tough job and this is really, really a tough start which is not helped by the chaos in college basketball right now. That's where we are. We all want this to work.
 

MennoSota

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Dude, seriously. If you're going to play the race card every time our head coach gets criticized, you're going to be very tired, very soon. You do also understand the nature of our current culture, and how calling everybody a racist really waters down the term and essentially becomes meaningless? If I understand you correctly, we are not to dare criticize the head coach of a P6 basketball program strictly because of his skin color? Do you understand how patronizing that is?

I was skeptical of the Pitino hire, but excited. He had reasonable success in his one year at FIU, and the thought of his dad having input or being able to give advice seemed like a boon. He brought with him a very competent player from FIU, didn't have a mass exodus when he was hired, and proceeded to exceed expectations in his first year (certainly my expectations, and as I remember, that was the general feeling). That bought him a fair amount of leash. He also talked a really big game and "won the press conference", talking about instilling Billy Donovan's press and high-tempo system. In the offseason, you are only able to analyze what's put out there. We don't have anything with Ben, so all we have to analyze is what's transpired so far.

You can argue whether or not the mass exodus is Ben's fault or not. But at the end of the day, we have 1 player remaining. Individually, a lot of arguments can be made about "this or that player isn't really a big loss". And I would largely agree with you. Many have good reasons to leave. But in aggregate, it's not a good look. Take Gabe for example- he has experience with Ben, and even has his former HS coach on staff. And he still leaves for a similar dumpster fire in ISU. I'm not going to criticize Gabe for leaving, that is his right. But at the very least, it's not a good sign/omen.
Have you considered they are all tired of the relentless bullshit from so called fans?
Ben Johnson has been here for 2 months and you folks are screaming like chicken little. That's just pathetic.
 

MennoSota

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Nobody on this board wanted specifically a white coach. Nobody. That post is complete garbage. What we all want is a winner and a coach selected for competence not color. I like Ben, it's going to be a tough job and this is really, really a tough start which is not helped by the chaos in college basketball right now. That's where we are. We all want this to work.
Smith was supposed to be the messiah. He wasn't hired. People went ballistic.
2 months. Johnson has been here 2 months...and y'all are saying the sky is falling.
As I see it, many people would extend grace if the coach was white, but since he's black there is no grace extended. Deny that all you want, our only comparison is Richard Pitino and Pitino never faced the backlash Johnson has faced.
 

bga1

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Smith was supposed to be the messiah. He wasn't hired. People went ballistic.
2 months. Johnson has been here 2 months...and y'all are saying the sky is falling.
As I see it, many people would extend grace if the coach was white, but since he's black there is no grace extended. Deny that all you want, our only comparison is Richard Pitino and Pitino never faced the backlash Johnson has faced.
Again, I like Johnson. However, with the reality on the ground- things are not off to a good start. Pitino started getting backlash in year 2 and in fact, a lot of people here never liked him. This is not a black white thing. This is people questioning competence, qualifications and early results. We have had a couple of weeks of bad news with no good news. That's what happens in a situation like this...People will have doubts.
 




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