GopherHolers: A Fleck temperature check

[SallysEnthusiast]

For those who select “fine or above” - I’d love to understand why.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Because you don't pick your coach game to game ...

 

[swelna]

Here's where I'm at with fleck. If we end with 5 or less wins, 2025 is where he needs to show that he can get the team back on track. If 2025 is another 5 or less win season, he's got to go.

If he can get back to 8 wins this year, then he's taken a bit of the heat off his seat. Still needs to make some changes, but I wouldn't be ready to fire him.

 

[stocker08]

I'm leaning towards bad at this point. His method of play it close and hope for the best isn't going to fly in the redesigned Big Ten. I mean....we got the ball back for that final drive with 1:42. More than enough time to drive down and get better field position than we had. Unfortunately.....we don't appear to have the ability to speed things up when needed. Tons of time left on the board because Fleck and Co. have the need to control everything down to the second....

 

[upnorthkid]

I'm leaning towards bad at this point. His method of play it close and hope for the best isn't going to fly in the redesigned Big Ten. I mean....we got the ball back for that final drive with 1:42. More than enough time to drive down and get better field position than we had. Unfortunately.....we don't appear to have the ability to speed things up when needed. Tons of time left on the board because Fleck and Co. have the need to control everything down to the second....

yep. couldn't agree more. you get up to the ball and run whatever with some pace. you can always run clock when the FG becomes a gimmie and Brown had no interest in trying to give us more time (he may have if you get down to the 10 or so). 10 more yards and that kick's % odds go up by 25% (that's using college kickers statistics). we throttled way down at UNCs 32 which is inexplicable when you have one timeout and instead were relying on trying to "pop one" on possibly 1-2 plays to try and make it up when instead if you run it with the tempo we did earlier, you get 4-5 plays (and if you hit one on the first play, you can always run clock then!). Head coaches really don't have that many jobs but he's one of the worst clock managers in the entire country season after season. I still don't know why a guy like him can't look in the mirror and say hey maybe I need one of my GAs to understand the analytics and advise me on target yard lines, my guy's percentages kicking the ball, and what the play call/angle should be. either he thinks he's doing a good job at it (he's not) or he just doesn't understand it.

 

[Some Day...Maybe]

Here's where I'm at with fleck. If we end with 5 or less wins, 2025 is where he needs to show that he can get the team back on track. If 2025 is another 5 or less win season, he's got to go.

If he can get back to 8 wins this year, then he's taken a bit of the heat off his seat. Still needs to make some changes, but I wouldn't be ready to fire him.

If PJ doesn't find a good OC and improve in 2025 he most definitely should be fired. You can find a lot of guys who can do what he's doing for a lot less money.

 

[PMWinSTP]

I'm leaning towards bad at this point. His method of play it close and hope for the best isn't going to fly in the redesigned Big Ten. I mean....we got the ball back for that final drive with 1:42. More than enough time to drive down and get better field position than we had. Unfortunately.....we don't appear to have the ability to speed things up when needed. Tons of time left on the board because Fleck and Co. have the need to control everything down to the second....

You don't think 10 plays in 1:44 is speeding things up?

 

[GophersInIowa]

You don't think 10 plays in 1:44 is speeding things up?

I'm assuming they're specifically talking about the sequence highlighted. That was 4 plays in 1:01 and that included one time where the clock stopped after the play due to the incompletion/penalty.

0:29 ran off between plays (1:17 to 0:48)
0:25 another time (0:41 to 0:16)

That's too much time.

 

[caliGopher]

The choices here are ridiculous.

Temperature check? His seat is cool as a cucumber.

He is currently in no danger of being fired, unless a scandal erupts.

If his current trajectory doesn't change, I don't think if we go 2-10 this year his seat will be hot next year.

To some the writing is on the wall, but just because the writing is on the wall, doesn't mean the four options above are a fair set of states.

I don't fall in any of those categories, but if I had to choose, I'd choose so-so.

My general attitude is that anyone surprised by were we are hasn't been paying attention. I'd also say that unless and until we have a competent AD and an administration that has expectations and a commitment to actually be all the superlatives Fleck loves to use, but doesn't understand the true meaning of on the footballl field, it doesn't matter. At best we'd get more of the same like this hire. At worst, we'd get Tim Brewster the sequel.

The game has changed completely in the past few years, but will all the bravado, sloganeering, and LOOK at Meeeeeeeeeee! from our Head Cheerleader, the program is roughly where it was under Mason and Kill.

The only place were Fleck has stood out is his performance in Bowl games. Aside from that, he's been a louder, more obnoxious (to me) version of Mason and Kill who had their own set of quirks and failings, but at least coached to win after a few years as opposed to coaching not to lose..

There are a lot of people who disagree with me, but my opinion hasn't changed much since Fleck was hired. We'll see where his tenure ends which won't be for several years at the earliest.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

---

His body of work here is still good enough that talk of firing him in the immediate future is asinine. I am getting more concerned. It felt like, when we had some better rosters, avoidable mistakes with in game coaching prevented solid to good seasons from being good to great ones (even in 2019 it felt like we should have been able to beat Iowa). Now, with a tougher schedule and maybe a lesser roster, those mistakes have the potential to make this a frustrating season like last year.

All that said, this was one game. This could still be a good season.

 

[PMWinSTP]

The choices here are ridiculous.

Temperature check? His seat is cool as a cucumber.

He is currently in no danger of being fired, unless a scandal erupts.

If his current trajectory doesn't change, I don't think if we go 2-10 this year his seat will be hot next year.

To some the writing is on the wall, but just because the writing is on the wall, doesn't mean the four options above are a fair set of states.

I don't fall in any of those categories, but if I had to choose, I'd choose so-so.

My general attitude is that anyone surprised by were we are hasn't been paying attention. I'd also say that unless and until we have a competent AD and an administration that has expectations and a commitment to actually be all the superlatives Fleck loves to use, but doesn't understand the true meaning of on the footballl field, it doesn't matter. At best we'd get more of the same like this hire. At worst, we'd get Tim Brewster the sequel.

The game has changed completely in the past few years, but will all the bravado, sloganeering, and LOOK at Meeeeeeeeeee! from our Head Cheerleader, the program is roughly where it was under Mason and Kill.

The only place were Fleck has stood out is his performance in Bowl games. Aside from that, he's been a louder, more obnoxious (to me) version of Mason and Kill who had their own set of quirks and failings, but at least coached to win after a few years as opposed to coaching not to lose..

There are a lot of people who disagree with me, but my opinion hasn't changed much since Fleck was hired. We'll see where his tenure ends which won't be for several years at the earliest.

I think what some folks are saying is if you wait too long, the ability to get a top up and comer goes way down.

 

[BilldGopher]

The choices here are ridiculous.

Temperature check? His seat is cool as a cucumber.

He is currently in no danger of being fired, unless a scandal erupts.

If his current trajectory doesn't change, I don't think if we go 2-10 this year his seat will be hot next year.

To some the writing is on the wall, but just because the writing is on the wall, doesn't mean the four options above are a fair set of states.

I don't fall in any of those categories, but if I had to choose, I'd choose so-so.

My general attitude is that anyone surprised by were we are hasn't been paying attention. I'd also say that unless and until we have a competent AD and an administration that has expectations and a commitment to actually be all the superlatives Fleck loves to use, but doesn't understand the true meaning of on the footballl field, it doesn't matter. At best we'd get more of the same like this hire. At worst, we'd get Tim Brewster the sequel.

The game has changed completely in the past few years, but will all the bravado, sloganeering, and LOOK at Meeeeeeeeeee! from our Head Cheerleader, the program is roughly where it was under Mason and Kill.

The only place were Fleck has stood out is his performance in Bowl games. Aside from that, he's been a louder, more obnoxious (to me) version of Mason and Kill who had their own set of quirks and failings, but at least coached to win after a few years as opposed to coaching not to lose..

There are a lot of people who disagree with me, but my opinion hasn't changed much since Fleck was hired. We'll see where his tenure ends which won't be for several years at the earliest.

Not sure Mase necessarily "coached to win" but certainly knew how to score points and hold on for dear life when the other guy's Defense and/or Offense woke up. Still, nice point and generally agree.

 

[Flecknation]

I'm assuming they're specifically talking about the sequence highlighted. That was 4 plays in 1:01 and that included one time where the clock stopped after the play due to the incompletion/penalty.

0:29 ran off between plays (1:17 to 0:48)
0:25 another time (0:41 to 0:16)

That's too much time.

seriously get in there and spike the ball

 

[SallysEnthusiast]

The choices here are ridiculous.

Temperature check? His seat is cool as a cucumber.

He is currently in no danger of being fired, unless a scandal erupts.

If his current trajectory doesn't change, I don't think if we go 2-10 this year his seat will be hot next year.

To some the writing is on the wall, but just because the writing is on the wall, doesn't mean the four options above are a fair set of states.

I don't fall in any of those categories, but if I had to choose, I'd choose so-so.

My general attitude is that anyone surprised by were we are hasn't been paying attention. I'd also say that unless and until we have a competent AD and an administration that has expectations and a commitment to actually be all the superlatives Fleck loves to use, but doesn't understand the true meaning of on the footballl field, it doesn't matter. At best we'd get more of the same like this hire. At worst, we'd get Tim Brewster the sequel.

The game has changed completely in the past few years, but will all the bravado, sloganeering, and LOOK at Meeeeeeeeeee! from our Head Cheerleader, the program is roughly where it was under Mason and Kill.

The only place were Fleck has stood out is his performance in Bowl games. Aside from that, he's been a louder, more obnoxious (to me) version of Mason and Kill who had their own set of quirks and failings, but at least coached to win after a few years as opposed to coaching not to lose..

There are a lot of people who disagree with me, but my opinion hasn't changed much since Fleck was hired. We'll see where his tenure ends which won't be for several years at the earliest.

I’m referring to your own, personal “temp” on Coach… also see the title of the poll “how do we feel about pj fleck”. No need to get crabby

 

[Tork]

The big problem, as far as I can tell, is offensive play calling. Whether it's not being aggressive enough, being too predictable, not finding a rhythm, whatever, it's the play calling. The good news is, play calling is a hell of a lot easier to change and than say, a coordinator who can't develop talent or a coach who can't recruit well.

I can't explain why the issue continues, but if the other aspects of the offensive are in reasonable shape, it doesn't have to, and that gives me hope. Otherwise, Fleck seems to run a clean program, the players do well in the classroom and off the field, recruiting is good all things considered, and I genuinely like the "culture". But poor play calling taints everything, and can make player development appear to be lacking, some recruits seems like misses, etc.

Small sample size, but I also think Brosmer looks like a step up from AK.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

He’s at no risk of being fired but feels like he could be coasting a little bit, and now stubborn about changing his best. Even when he had good teams with some superlative players and/or a ridiculously favorable schedule they couldn’t quite climb the mountain (Iowa and Wisconsin in 2019, 2021/22 have been blocked from my memory banks). It’s been awhile since a signature win.

That said, I like PJ. I want PJ to succeed. At some point results have to matter. This team has a chance to still deliver a good season.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Last night was disappointing but we are nowhere close to needing polls about whether the coach should be fired because Fleck is nowhere close to getting fired. And those pining for a coaching change are going to be very disappointed because Fleck will be the coach in 2025 regardless of what happens this season.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Coyle will never fire Fleck. Never. Never. Never.

Fleck could go 0-12 for the season while losing every game by 30 points, and Coyle would not fire Fleck.

It's not going to happen.

when Fleck leaves MN, it will be his choice - either to retire or take another job.

now, if for some reason, Coyle leaves MN first, then all bets are off. a new AD would not be linked to Fleck the way Coyle is linked.

but as long as Coyle is the AD, Fleck will be the Football coach.

 

[TeamTubby]

Overall his tenure has been good. But it's really starting to get stale.

 

[MirandaB]

I like what Fleck has done with the team but I just don’t think he’s a good game-time coach. I sense no improvement the last few seasons. Please get a decent OC and let that person call the plays.

 

[SeaBee_Gopher]

I like PJ. He seems to run a good, respectable program and sets a good example for these young men, most of which will never play after college. However, this is the Big Ten. We are the first or second richest conference in college football. Just about any B1G program can hire the best coaches available. If he's just good and not among the best, I don't think he'll be around for long.

Notice I didn't say we should be among the winningest programs because I don't believe that. Our recruiting footprint sucks! But a lot of VERY good coaches will give it their best shot for a boat load of money!

 

[State of Football]

It appears Fleck doesn’t want to be here. He’s checking out, losing coordinators, and attention to detail is waning.

 

[GopherEnEspaña]

For those who select “fine or above” - I’d love to understand why.

Because we haven't figured out our NIL situation yet and he still has been able to recruit relatively well considering the context.

The frustrating thing about PJ is that he has built the deepest, most athletic, most talented gopher roster in my lifetime, but his decisions on staffing are mind-boggling and it feels like we're just wasting talent.

Before the UNC game I was much higher on Fleck because I didn't know how trash Harbaugh was and I still couldn't believe that PJ would insist on continuing the braindead conservative offensive schemes.

I don't think his seat should be warm yet. We still have a lot of games left. Remember we had some weird and ugly games in 2019 as well.

 

[Arminius]

It appears Fleck doesn’t want to be here. He’s checking out, losing coordinators, and attention to detail is waning.

Insert the "contemplative/I never thought of that" emoji

 

[Spoofin]

Coyle will never fire Fleck. Never. Never. Never.

Fleck could go 0-12 for the season while losing every game by 30 points, and Coyle would not fire Fleck.

It's not going to happen.

when Fleck leaves MN, it will be his choice - either to retire or take another job.

now, if for some reason, Coyle leaves MN first, then all bets are off. a new AD would not be linked to Fleck the way Coyle is linked.

but as long as Coyle is the AD, Fleck will be the Football coach.

I agree with this (except the 0-12 by 30 exaggeration). As for the bolded, I think that will happen soon, likely after this year, if there is returned interest. PJ tried to make it happen with UCLA this past offseason, but they weren’t interested. His stock is declining.

 

[NateDawgUM]

If you're going to be predictable, you need to have better players. He either needs to recruit better or he needs to mix things up.

Lately, I get the feeling he's more interested in protecting his paycheck by playing it safe. I probably would too, it's way too much money.

 

[Arminius]

I read the poll as what do I (me) think of PJF. Some backstory.

I have a buddy in New Ulm who is a Penn State grad. My friend has complete distain for the "gimmicky, motivational speaker, R-t-B nonsense" Fleck and he reminds me every time something doesn't go right.

Case in point, I wake up Friday morning to a text, "What was your favorite PJ Fleck moment?" Of course, I quickly countered, "Beating Penn State." He was at that game.

Yet, this guy knows CF backwards-&-forwards and he played four years of high school ball in Missouri for their version of Mike Grant. Seriously, this guy should blog about D1 CF, he is that smart so I respect his opinion even if we disagree.

Over Jack or single malt we have had meaningful discussions about, "Okay, you replace PJ and who are you going to get?" I suppose the Florida State coach might be available soon. But really, who are we going to get? And do we really want to go through another transition...it has all the feelings of a divorce each time we have a coaching change.

While he wasn't a marquis name, I thought letting Tracy Claeys stay on as HC wasn't the worst idea. If he was about 80lbs lighter it would have been an easier sell, but I digress.

I have learned that I am bi-polar when it comes to PJF.

Thursday at kickoff I am definitely a "Fleck's my guy" fan. At the end of the game I am definitely a "Fleck's gotta go" fan. Today I am more, "Unless you are going to go get Lance Liepold, let's stick with what we got and make this thing work."

I don't want a coaching change but I do want a results change. We all do. I think we have decent talent, PJ did a nice job in the transfer portal, there appears to be some momentum building on the high school recruiting trail, it looks like the D will keep us in most games...Coyle needs to save the fan base and do an intervention demanding an OC change.

Sorry for the rambling post. I have spent way too much time on this team in the last 48 hours. The next three games are the determining factor for me on where my interest-meter lands regarding the rest of 2024. Assuming RI and Nevada are wins, Iowa is huge for me.

 

[BilldGopher]

Actually reading some well put posts made me realize there was no booing for this one.

Not that it would be expected on Game 1, however the opponent was a real team and the product on the field looked very familiar offensively.

We'll see.

 

[btowngopher]

If PJ doesn't find a good OC and improve in 2025 he most definitely should be fired. You can find a lot of guys who can do what he's doing for a lot less money.

Name a few.

 

[FanSinceTheFifties]

Think of the first two drives after halftime. NC drives 400 yards in 60 plays for a FG after sputtering in the first half. Gophers throw two incs and get stuffed on a rush and punt. What was talked about in the two locker rooms during the halftime?