Gopher Softball 2022

rwlarson

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Prairie View may be

Speaking of Alabama, didn't Okla State or some team like that sneak into Tuscaloosa a few years ago and beat ALA? Or was that a super regional? I think Allister & Groenewegen were let down not so much by ALA's 'fixing,' as some called it, and the lousy umpiring, but most of all by Gophers hitters, who failed to produce a single run in 2 games v. ALA. Speaking of Prairie View being "the worst team in the tournament," I hold my breath with the Gophers; they've proven they can beat almost anybody and also lose to anybody. They beat top teams in the BIG (NW, MI, IL), but also lost to lowly Iowa, the worst team in the BIG, incredibly blowing an 8-2 lead in the space of 4 innings.
That was the double whammy of being sent to Alabama that year. They had two great pitchers but not a lot of hitting, which is why their hosting streak of 12 years (now 16 tournaments) remained intact. There were maybe two other teams in the entire field with the level of pitching Alabama had that year. We would have beat 13 of the 16 seeds on the road, and probably all of them at home. Alabama just happened to be one of the three with two such high quality pitchers that it took a team that had not faced that level of pitching all year maybe six at bats to start selecting the right pitches and squaring up some balls. But because they had two aces, we never got comfortable enough to do so.

If you recall, we did have bases loaded with Houlihan up and she just got out of the way of a high inside pitch that if it had brushed her probably would have won the game for us the way Groenewegen was dealing.
 


Hrothgar

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That was the double whammy of being sent to Alabama that year. They had two great pitchers but not a lot of hitting, which is why their hosting streak of 12 years (now 16 tournaments) remained intact. There were maybe two other teams in the entire field with the level of pitching Alabama had that year. We would have beat 13 of the 16 seeds on the road, and probably all of them at home. Alabama just happened to be one of the three with two such high quality pitchers that it took a team that had not faced that level of pitching all year maybe six at bats to start selecting the right pitches and squaring up some balls. But because they had two aces, we never got comfortable enough to do so.

If you recall, we did have bases loaded with Houlihan up and she just got out of the way of a high inside pitch that if it had brushed her probably would have won the game for us the way Groenewegen was dealing.
Thanks for the impressive reminder. I must admit that my memory of those games is mostly purely impressonistic. I don't enjoy being made aware of the facts I didn't know, but facts help me understand it better.
 

rwlarson

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Thanks for the impressive reminder. I must admit that my memory of those games is mostly purely impressonistic. I don't enjoy being made aware of the facts I didn't know, but facts help me understand it better.
It pains me to talk about that, too. A team of that quality and balance doesn’t come around very often. Which is why denying them an opportunity to see how they would have stacked up in the WCWS due to the incompetence of that years’ Committee is such a crying shame. Softball fans from around the country still talk about the great snub of 2017, and very few have ever tried to justify the Committee’s decision.

Those that have used the unwritten rule of at least 1 Top 10 win for a 1-8 seed and 4 Top 25 wins for 9-16. That unwritten rule (which clearly favored the SEC and PAC-12) was apparently gone soon afterward though. In 2019 Michigan, Northwestern, or both, failed to meet that criteria but still hosted.

Since then, the Committee has dropped teams a couple placements and chastised them for a weak non-conference schedule, but nothing like being dropped (at least) six spots from our 11 RPI and seeing #22 Mississippi get to host just because they got behind a hot pitcher for a weekend and won the SEC tournament.
 
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Holy Man

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It pains me to talk about that, too. A team of that quality and balance doesn’t come around very often. Which is why denying them an opportunity to see how they would have stacked up in the WCWS due to the incompetence of that years’ Committee is such a crying shame. Softball fans from around the country still talk about the great snub of 2017, and very few have ever tried to justify the Committee’s decision.

Those that have used the unwritten rule of at least 1 Top 10 win for a 1-8 seed and 4 Top 25 wins for 9-16. That unwritten rule (which clearly favored the SEC and PAC-12) was apparently gone soon afterward though. In 2019 Michigan, Northwestern, or both, failed to meet that criteria but still hosted.

Since then, the Committee has dropped teams a couple placements and chastised them for a weak non-conference schedule, but nothing like being dropped (at least) six spots from our 11 RPI and seeing #22 Mississippi get to host just because they got behind a hot pitcher for a weekend and won the SEC tournament.
That snub ranks right up there with the 72 Olympic basketball in great administrative scandals in sports history. Committee was corrupt, and embarrassed the sport. People who know a lot more than I do were hammering the committee so much they had to respond publicly, in an inadequate way, of course. I'm still pissed off by that.
 


rwlarson

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I would imagine we were one of the last teams in the field
From an interview Justin McLeod of Extra Inning Softball did with NCAA Softball Committee chair Sandy Atkins:

Extra Inning Softball: Last four in?
Sandy Atkins: In alphabetical order, Oregon State; South Florida; Wichita State; and Wisconsin.

Extra Inning Softball: First four out?
Sandy Atkins: Again, in alphabetical order, Louisville; Texas State; Utah; and Western Kentucky.


So, the Gophers were fairly comfortably in the field, and probably were one of the top 3-seeds, as most certainly Texas A&M has to be one of the weakest 2-seeds. In a traditional fully-seeded snaking bracket, Oklahoma would get the worst 2-seed and best 3-seed. Minnesota and Texas A&M were probably ranked right next to each other in the Committee’s rankings. I guess being in the SEC tipped the scales in favor of the Aggies, which means unfortunately they will have last at bat in both games, assuming neither of us beats Oklahoma in the 1-0 game and sends them to the loser’s bracket.
 

rowdaboat

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Throwing out bold prediction - Jordy ends up needing Tommy John or rotator cuff surgery out til mid conference season and Oklahoma gets Storako transfer for final eligibility year from Michigan
 

Ski U Mah Gopher

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From an interview Justin McLeod of Extra Inning Softball did with NCAA Softball Committee chair Sandy Atkins:

Extra Inning Softball: Last four in?
Sandy Atkins: In alphabetical order, Oregon State; South Florida; Wichita State; and Wisconsin.

Extra Inning Softball: First four out?
Sandy Atkins: Again, in alphabetical order, Louisville; Texas State; Utah; and Western Kentucky.


So, the Gophers were fairly comfortably in the field, and probably were one of the top 3-seeds, as most certainly Texas A&M has to be one of the weakest 2-seeds. In a traditional fully-seeded snaking bracket, Oklahoma would get the worst 2-seed and best 3-seed. Minnesota and Texas A&M were probably ranked right next to each other in the Committee’s rankings. I guess being in the SEC tipped the scales in favor of the Aggies, which means unfortunately they will have last at bat in both games, assuming neither of us beats Oklahoma in the 1-0 game and sends them to the loser’s bracket.
The rule is when a team plays a team for a second time in the 1-1 elimination game, the home team in the opening round is the road team in the elimination game. So, it A & M is the 2nd seed, and we meet in the 1-1 elimination game, we will be the home team in the elimination game.
 

rwlarson

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The rule is when a team plays a team for a second time in the 1-1 elimination game, the home team in the opening round is the road team in the elimination game. So, it A & M is the 2nd seed, and we meet in the 1-1 elimination game, we will be the home team in the elimination game.
Thank you for the correction. I forgot about the part of the rule that applies to two teams which have already played one another.
 



ClassOf98Gopher

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…In a traditional fully-seeded snaking bracket, Oklahoma would get the worst 2-seed and best 3-seed. Minnesota and Texas A&M were probably ranked right next to each other in the Committee’s rankings…
This “fully seeded snaking bracket” doesn’t exist in college softball! Location and associated driving distance matters much more than the 1-64 seeding scheme so that a #1 overall seed is not going to be matched up with the #32 overall seed and so forth.
 

Gopher68

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Mike Grimm podcast with Piper Ritter and Erika Smyth:
 
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rwlarson

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This “fully seeded snaking bracket” doesn’t exist in college softball! Location and associated driving distance matters much more than the 1-64 seeding scheme so that a #1 overall seed is not going to be matched up with the #32 overall seed and so forth.
Yes, they have to ditch the minimize flights with the 400-mile bus rule and seed 1-64 to get closer to a snaking bracket. Due to the no two teams from the same conference in a regional rule, a true snaking bracket is probably never possible anyway. However, the committee does attempt to balance the brackets as best they can within the above limitations. I’m merely arguing that the Norman regional is probably pretty close to what that regional would look like if they could snake the bracket.
 






GophersSBfan

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We put up with your uninformed softball takes because this is a softball forum but your political views don’t belong here. Take it somewhere else.
Just a little harsh...."your uninformed softball takes"...I for one have loved reading Hrothgar's comments on this board. Not sure how many I have seen from Gopher6389. If you ask me there is no reason that Softball doesn't go back to the rotating site approach they did in the past. Just saying! Sure seems like a huge advantage to local schools that get to be home for the toughest part of the season while some schools may only play 5-7 game series at home. Maybe the political issue will help solve the real issue of an unfair advantage. Let's also admit that maybe the money needs to spread around the country instead just to Ok every year! Then again it is about the best thing going for Ok!
 

ClassOf98Gopher

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I am strongly pro-Hrothgar-softball-takes despite them consistently being more pessimistic than my views. As for anybody’s more political posts, I probably could go without them and be just fine.
 

Hrothgar

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I am strongly pro-Hrothgar-softball-takes despite them consistently being more pessimistic than my views. As for anybody’s more political posts, I probably could go without them and be just fine.
Thanks for your words. And GopherSBFan's too. I wrote nothing political in my post. Neither did I intend any. I was only posing a question.

As for as my relative pessimism, I admit there's some truth but only recently. I know no Gophers coaches, players, or parents personally. I just comment about what I see on the playing field. Up to and including 2019, I applauded every Gopher softball move enthusiastically, even those with less than happy outcomes, because they were anchored in essentially solid coaching strategy and players' performance. Since 2020, too much has been perplexing or seemingly carried out against the axioms of the sport and with no given explanation as to why.
 


rowdaboat

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Given the draconian abortion legislation in Oklahoma, will there be a movement to boycott the WCWS in that state?
Logistically would be almost impossible, recently extended ncaa with venue to 2035 and with the number of annual youth tournaments around the area contracts aside there's nowhere else fit for moving it to
 

4EverAGopher

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I am a little behind on watching the game. Heads up base running by Denson in the top of the third to get to third and eventually score. Had the throw been lower to home, she probably would have been out.
 

4EverAGopher

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I remember posting this before. I still find it interesting when a team scores, their pitcher gives up run(s) right after that and they end up either tied with their opponent or relinquishing the lead. By the way, are there any stats that anybody is aware of on that? It is really frustrating as a fan....anyway, it is for ths one.
 

Outsider

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Bad defense early in the inning costs them. And only one hit in the game, better wake up the bats!
 





Hrothgar

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Gophers have scored 2 runs in the last 21 innings; one of those thx to Denton's heads up baserunning after a wild throw. Guess we can't blame MN pitchers for the losses.
 

ClassOf98Gopher

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Honestly, with the juggernaut of Oklahoma in our bracket, this whole tournament was always going to come down to us versus Texas A and M on Saturday night anyway with the goal always being to play Oklahoma on Sunday. Win or loss today… it really didn’t matter for the purpose of meeting our goal on getting to compete on Sunday.

Actually, we have a BETTER chance of playing on Sunday by losing today. It sets up a Prarie View then Texas A&M Saturday as compared to an Oklahoma then Texas A&M Saturday. I like our chances of beating Texas A&M tomorrow night better this way.
 
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Gopher6389

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I remember posting this before. I still find it interesting when a team scores, their pitcher gives up run(s) right after that and they end up either tied with their opponent or relinquishing the lead. By the way, are there any stats that anybody is aware of on that? It is really frustrating as a fan....anyway, it is for ths one.
Are we really gonna blame this loss on pitching? Don’t get me wrong out pitching has been an issue all season but that certainly is NOT the reason we lose this game.
 




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