GAME #28: Gophers (17-10, 6-8) @ O$U (21-6, 8-6) [BTN, 2/22, 5:00PM]

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I was not comfortable with their lead but I didn't expect this. No excuse.
 

Last two second halves: Illinois 38-22, OSU 46-18. We have been beaten 84-40 in the last two second halves. Unreal.
 

damueller99 said:
They are not this bad. They're bad, but not this bad. It's pretty obvious several players don't have their heads in the game. The coaches were too busy talking sh!t to Amelia about how great their defense was in the 1st half to prepare for what Motta was going to give them I'm the 2nd. So both coaches and players just dropped the ball.


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Thank you. That's the point I was trying to make. There are just a lot of mental lapses from everyone. Of course Ohio St. is more talented, but not so much more talented that you see a half like that.
 


Real frustrating game to watch as the 1st half was pretty decent and the 2nd half was absolutely pathetic. I think the biggest thing that caused the change in the 2nd half was the Gophers got away from going inside and settled for bad jumpers and tried to play at a faster pace and Ohio State has the far better athletes to play that way so we kind of fed right into what they wanted to happen. When Ohio State got numbers they converted it into points but a lot of times the Gophers got numbers and they would get it blocked. Not sure how many turnovers the Gophers ended with but I believe they only had 1 at halftime and I gotta think that changed quite a bit to the bad in the 2nd half too. Like against Illinois it is another game where it is hard to pick a player that really played well for the whole game. Hard to feel confident going into a big home game with Iowa and knowing the Gophers really don't match up well with them.
 


bga1 said:
Last two second halves: Illinois 38-22, OSU 46-18. We have been beaten 84-40 in the last two second halves. Unreal.
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That is pathetic. Both allowing that many points and only scoring that many. Just awful.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
What he is supposed to do? Say "so far this have, you guys have not tried at all, from this point forward, I would like you to please begin exerting effort"? You can come up with a plan for untalented players if they are willing to work hard, focus, and execute it. You can't do anything when you are coaching quitters. All we need to know about the desire and hunger of our players is that we have a thread about how maybe the coach is being too mean to them when they make mistakes. How can they possibly be so soft?
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explain to me how the team has a 10pt lead than blow its away? its because the other team adjusted, did we adjust? no! we obvouisly have enough talent despite what you may think, how'd we beat wisconsin? or osu? are players at fault? yes, but there is no way you can say pitino has not been completely out coached since the original wisonsin game, we are never going to get the recruits blue bloods get like his father or donovan, at least not until you start showing you can coach and win, so he better learn how to adjust mid game. Last year was a much stronger conference yet Tubby did much better with this team than pitino, so how can you put it all on talent?

Last two second halves: Illinois 38-22, OSU 46-18. We have been beaten 84-40 in the last two second halves. please tell me how that is not on the coach?
 

Austin plays like he doesn't care, not sure he should see that much court time.

King and Elliason have no clue offensively, they are constantly out of position, they make the Gophers easy to defend. Elliason's man was double teaming Dre Hollins on the right side, what did he do, go set a pick for Smith's man on the back side, the kid is a fourth year junior, no clue/no chance whatsoever.

A little better with Walker and Osenieks, at least they have floor balance, an idea of what they are trying to accomplish, and a chance when they are on the court.
 

There was a moment early in the second half when Joey King got stripped and OSU went in for a layup to cut it to 6 - where you could just see it was going to slip away. I could have never imagined the depths they sunk to.
 



GuyFawkes said:
I'd bet a good amount of money collins or miles would have done better with this group. Its obvious he isn't good adjusting mid game, He is too reliant on talent, if he was a good coach he'd be able to adjust, we don't have the talent to win when you can't counter another coaches in game adjustment just by sticking to our orginal game plan
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Obviously we'd never really know, so there is no use in wondering... but I'm not ready to discount Pitino. Just remember, everyone predicted us to be in last place or the lower half. Now it's showing through, but we're ahead of where we should be.
 

Joey King 4-11 fg 0-5(!) 3p, 2(!) rebounds and 3(!) turnovers

Austin Hollins 1-4 fg 0-1 3p, 4 rebounds, 1 assist and 3(!) turnovers

Oto Osenieks 0-4 fg 0-2 3p, ZEROS in every other category

Keep in mind that 2/3 players are big negatives on defense as well...
 

Let's give OSU a little credit here. They showed up second half and we could not keep up.

It wasn't really about Pitino being outcoached.

Something has to be going on with Austin. No way can a senior regress that much and have is mind on a planet so far away.
 




GuyFawkes said:
explain to me how the team has a 10pt lead than blow its away? its because the other team adjusted, did we adjust? no! we obvouisly have enough talent despite what you may think, how'd we beat wisconsin? or osu? are players at fault? yes, but there is no way you can say pitino has not been completely out coached since the original wisonsin game, we are never going to get the recruits blue bloods get like his father or donovan, at least not until you start showing you can coach and win, so he better learn how to adjust mid game. Last year was a much stronger conference yet Tubby did much better with this team than pitino, so how can you put it all on talent?
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Yea Mbakwe and Williams really haven't shown up much this year have they. :rolleyes:
 

EG#9 said:
Joey King 4-11 fg 0-5(!) 3p, 2(!) rebounds and 3(!) turnovers

Austin Hollins 1-4 fg 0-1 3p, 4 rebounds, 1 assist and 3(!) turnovers

Oto Osenieks 0-4 fg 0-2 3p, ZEROS in every other category

Keep in mind that 2/3 players are big negatives on defense as well...
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King made a 3. Had the first 5 points of the game.
 

EG#9 said:
Joey King 4-11 fg 0-5(!) 3p, 2(!) rebounds and 3(!) turnovers

Austin Hollins 1-4 fg 0-1 3p, 4 rebounds, 1 assist and 3(!) turnovers

Oto Osenieks 0-4 fg 0-2 3p, ZEROS in every other category

Keep in mind that 2/3 players are big negatives on defense as well...
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If Oto would have just not shot he would have had a hall of fame Club Trillion performance. Mark Titus would be proud.

Oto Osenieks, F 0-4 0-2 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
 

If you look at what it takes to be a good team.....we just don't have the players. If you look at our final four team we have one player who would be on par with those players.

Eric Harris would be on par with Andre Hollins

After that we have don't have a:

Bobby Jackson
Sam Jacobsen
Courtney James
John Thomas
Quincy Lewis

Heck even Charles a Thomas would be a starter this year.

I love little Dre. He has been a huge surprise for me this year. But perhaps winning some early big ten games and hanging with MSU on the road into overtime just gave tricked me into expecting too much from this team. We just don't have the players.
 

I wish Pitino would stop asking these guys to drive and they are not capable of getting to hoop and finishing. He is not playing to the strength of his team. Sending the Hollins boys , Malik and the freshman into the lane is a turnover waiting to happen. Also, players are looking over their shoulders to the bench even more than the Tubby era. Pitino dresses his players down too aggressively and they are playing not to make mistakes and he has nothing to say strategy wise to keep his team into the game. I guess the coach is finding out that the Big 10 can be a tough conference especially in February and his inexperience is glaring.
 

gopherMD said:
At least I can walk away and go outside where it is 75 and sunny here in the Bay area. How are things in Mpls?
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I'm also in the Bay Area. It's awesome isn't it? My boy had baseball practice today. Baseball! Outside!


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jumpstop said:
I wish Pitino would stop asking these guys to drive and they are not capable of getting to hoop and finishing. He is not playing to the strength of his team. Sending the Hollins boys , Malik and the freshman into the lane is a turnover waiting to happen. Also, players are looking over their shoulders to the bench even more than the Tubby era. Pitino dresses his players down too aggressively and they are playing not to make mistakes and he has nothing to say strategy wise to keep his team into the game. I guess the coach is finding out that the Big 10 can be a tough conference especially in February and his inexperience is glaring.
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Actually agree. I remember at his opening press conference Pitino said he didn't "want guys looking at the bench" I noticed multiple times the announcers say "... Looks over at the bench"
 

RolGnav said:
Obviously we'd never really know, so there is no use in wondering... but I'm not ready to discount Pitino. Just remember, everyone predicted us to be in last place or the lower half. Now it's showing through, but we're ahead of where we should be.
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Don't agree with this at all. The conference was expected to be better than it is and Minnesota has lost more games they were favored to win than won as underdogs. Northwestern, Nebraska, and Penn State (3 teams that most agreed were below the Gophers in talent) all have better road wins than Minnesota. If the Gophers simply beat Northwestern and Illinois at home (certainly considered wins on paper), they are still in decent shape for the tournament. Northwestern and Nebraska are ahead of where they should be, Minnesota isn't.

I really like Coach Pitino and think he's a smart guy who will do well, but what we've seen from this team for over a month is concerning.
 

gopherskynet said:
Yea Mbakwe and Williams really haven't shown up much this year have they. :rolleyes:
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yeah, Tubby was good at keeping in state talent home, lost out on all big 3, sure I'll excuse that, but not macura who came on late yet we lost them to xavier? give me a break, already hearing Johnson isn't happy with the gophers situation anymore since the fall because of the signing of mason, but needs to stay close to home, so he is looking at wisconsin now
 

GuyFawkes said:
explain to me how the team has a 10pt lead than blow its away? its because the other team adjusted, did we adjust? no! we obvouisly have enough talent despite what you may think, how'd we beat wisconsin? or osu? are players at fault? yes, but there is no way you can say pitino has not been completely out coached since the original wisonsin game, we are never going to get the recruits blue bloods get like his father or donovan, at least not until you start showing you can coach and win, so he better learn how to adjust mid game. Last year was a much stronger conference yet Tubby did much better with this team than pitino, so how can you put it all on talent?

Last two second halves: Illinois 38-22, OSU 46-18. We have been beaten 84-40 in the last two second halves. please tell me how that is not on the coach?
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You mean we coulda been using Mbakwe, Williams, and even Ingram this whole time man I don't know why Pitino hasn't tried them at the PF and C spots.
 

GuyFawkes said:
explain to me how the team has a 10pt lead than blow its away? its because the other team adjusted, did we adjust? no! we obvouisly have enough talent despite what you may think, how'd we beat wisconsin? or osu? are players at fault? yes, but there is no way you can say pitino has not been completely out coached since the original wisonsin game, we are never going to get the recruits blue bloods get like his father or donovan, at least not until you start showing you can coach and win, so he better learn how to adjust mid game. Last year was a much stronger conference yet Tubby did much better with this team than pitino, so how can you put it all on talent?

Last two second halves: Illinois 38-22, OSU 46-18. We have been beaten 84-40 in the last two second halves. please tell me how that is not on the coach?
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First of all, last year's team had talent in the frontcourt. This year's team doesn't. Last year's team had more talent, along with four graduating seniors. It is by no means "the same team."

Second, how can we say it was simply talent that got us past Wisconsin and tOSU at home? From what I can recall, those games were games in which we did indeed have a game plan and take advantage of the other team's early-season weaknesses (e.g. defense for Wisconsin). For what reason can we say that those wins were because of talent and this loss was because of a game plan?

Not to say you're wrong (a half like this one is impossible to justify), but sometimes you just don't have a counter to an opponent's counter. There's only so much you can do with the roster you currently possess. You discount talent as a cause almost entirely, which is just as much of a mistake as absolving Pitino of blame.

The only way to truly and completely adjust for a lack of athleticism is to slow the game down the way Collins is doing it. Limit opposing possessions and play efficient stall-ball. Raise your floor, lower your ceiling. But even for that you need big men on the inside who can play defense. Tough to do that when you have Oto and Joey at the Four. Defense of any kind starts in the interior, and interior defense relies on the quality of your bigs pretty much by definition. And even then, that's not the kind of system that Pitino is setting up.

Again, no excusing this effort, and the thought that Pitino might fail is more firmly in my mind than is ever has been, but I think you're overreacting and at least partly misdiagnosing the problem. Talent has a TON to do with this team's problems. And in the end, there's only so much coaching you can do to make up for that. I mean, this team's NIT bound, sure, but Nebraska probably is, too (they have to really, really have an outstanding rest of the season to have a shot at the Dance, and they're on the outside looking in at this point), and Northwestern probably not even that. Even your much-balleyhooed Collins and Miles aren't Jesus Christ.
 

Skaaredgopher said:
Worst half I have ever seen, just awful.
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Not sure it was worse than Iowa last year (given our talent last year) or even the second half against Illinois this week (given the opponent and the fact that we were at home)
 

EG#9 said:
Don't agree with this at all. The conference was expected to be better than it is and Minnesota has lost more games they were favored to win than won as underdogs. Northwestern, Nebraska, and Penn State (3 teams that most agreed were below the Gophers in talent) all have better road wins than Minnesota. If the Gophers simply beat Northwestern and Illinois at home (certainly considered wins on paper), they are still in decent shape for the tournament. Northwestern and Nebraska are ahead of where they should be, Minnesota isn't.

I really like Coach Pitino and think he's a smart guy who will do well, but what we've seen from this team for over a month is concerning.
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I expected these kind of struggles early on as everyone got used to each other and the new system. I didn't expect us to have a better first half of the conference schedule than the second half. That is what is most concerning to me. We haven't gotten better.
 

IF Dre Hollins and Austin Hollins had played up to their potential or close to it this team would have 9 wins.

Dre got hurt but he was not lighting up before he got hurt.
 

Richard needs to tweak the offense a bit. Tired of seeing three guards do a three man weave 28 feet from the basket.

Dribble hand off, dribble hand off, dribble hand off... clock at 8 seconds than a bad shot.

They do dribble hand offs 28 feet from the hoop and don't even look at the basket. No back cuts No back picks. Tough offense to run when the team you are playing has an athletic perimeter. All the defense does is switch that. The Gophers are not getting many mismatches trying to turn the corner with this offense.

The Gophers must average 75 dribble hand offs and 40 one foot passes a game. Nothing going toward the basket. It looks like the Globetrotters three man weave that is until Austin gets the ball then it looks like the Washington Generals.

Austin Hollins is so bad that it is sad. Shot fakes when he should drive and he drives when he has a jumper. Tough to watch...
 

Tubby's system and an inside presence made Dre Holins look better than he is and scouts were placing him into the first round. He got exposed at Adidas Nation last summer and is getting exposed this year. He is nothing more than a jump shooter with no quicks or ability to create . His defense is also poor. His lack of athleticism on that fast break today was really disappointing and he is only a slight upgrade over the Hoff.
 

Good take... Austin and Andre are better catch and shoot 3 point shooters. Post kicks back out for a three they catch and shoot like last year.

In transition and coming off picks neither of them seem to shoot three well that way.
 

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