Former Gophers QB Phillip Nelson arrested in his hometown of Mankato for assault

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DMB123 said:
I've stayed home with my daughter plenty of nights while she was out with a friend or friends, I don't mind at all. And she's done the same for me. I'm just saying I don't see why Kolstad can't have a night out with friends, it's not a big deal. It's not as if you have to stay home and batten down the hatches during the final month of pregnancy. We still went out and had fun, even after her due date as a matter of fact. Again, judging Kolstad for going out til 2am is stupid. What he did at about 2:05am is what was stupid.
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Well-stated. I guess some people here think that everyone should go home after work, eat dinner, watch the news and be in bed by ten.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
IK sounds like a jacka$$ who threw a sucker punch at Philip Nelson. By pointing that out, I certainly don't mean to say that he deserves the kind of suffering he is going through now, just that the fact that he got seriously injured does not change the fact that he was acting like an idiot. If Nelson or his buddy would have reacted to the sucker punch with a punch straight on to the face and either that punch or something he hit on the way down had injured him, I wouldn't feel too much pity.

However, that isn't what happened. Nelson kicked the guy in the head while he was on the ground. That takes a very special kind of cowardice. I hope Nelson gets what he has coming to him.

Also, a few pages back, somebody brought up the "initial aggressor" doctrine suggesting that Nelson could not claim self-defense if he started the argument. I think there is a little more nuance to that doctrine than the initial poster suggested. "Initial aggressor" means that you cannot successfully assert self-defense if you are defending yourself against (a) a physical attack which is itself a legal self-defense in response to your initial attack or (b) a physical attack which you deliberately provoked for the purpose of allowing yourself to respond under the guise of self-defense. It does not mean that if you have any part in starting an argument that you lose all right to ever defense yourself. To illustrate with an extreme example, if somebody tries to cut in line in front of me at the movie theater, and I say "hey a$$hole, go to the end of the line" and shove him out of line, and then he pulls a gun on me, I am not precluded from legally defending myself because I "started" the argument. Nelson cannot claim self-defense here because any threat was neutralized when IK was unconscious on the ground, not because of any role Nelson may have had in initiating a verbal disagreement.
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At what point did Nelson know IK was unconscious? Before or after kicking? Does a man down prohibit a defensive strike if there is no knowledge about his condition? And, didn't Nelson have to go through people to get to the unconscious attacker? And, how much time does Nelson need to assess if he should or shouldn't counter attack in the 6 seconds from being hit to kicking the attacker? I think the ambiguity here requires a little leeway in allowing a defense. 2 am, after drinking, after getting hit, after being in an argument and leaving, was Nelson a little silly for turning his back and walking away prior to the fight? Or, was his head on right for heading away from the area before the fight? I think his state of mind was not to further exacerbate the situation. That the timeframe just prior to the fight, Nelson was already in retreat. He was leaving. The fight was brought to him and being how late in the evening and having consumed alcohol, I'm inclined to give Nelson's defense a little leeway. The existence of a threat may well be unknown to Nelson in the course of having had to go around the melee of people after having been hit and the shock and adrenaline that resulted.

I keep reading the whole thing took about 6 seconds on the tape, beginning to end. To me, that allows for doubt as to any premeditation on Nelson's part. I can not read minds. I don't know about the correlation of people to commit to any course of action in this situation. I don't know what is causative here on any of the facts. Therefore, I am erring on the side of caution. I don't think the condition of IK should dictate prosecution.

The only thing I can agree with everybody on is how tragic the situation resulted for IK.

The kick to the head seems simple and punitive. But, on examination of the circumstances, I believe there is a chance that it also could be viewed as a defensive opportunity, no matter how small the chance, it is possible. And, the fact that the blows were not ongoing clearly shows restraint and the intention of a judicious response.

I give my permission for one and all to correct any errors and omissions I may have in regard to the facts and counterpoints you may make. I am not committed to this viewpoint, whatsoever.
 

discochris said:
Well-stated. I guess some people here think that everyone should go home after work, eat dinner, watch the news and be in bed by ten.
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Not everyone. Just people with wives, children, and responsibilities. You're free to do whatever the hell you want, and the rest of us are free to judge you as the irresponsible immature moron that you are when you're out partying (not working) past 2 am with a wife, daughter, and soon-to-be born child at home. Oh, and you just went on a guy's trip to Vegas the weekend before. This just keeps getting better and better. What an upstanding model of Christian virtue!
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
This came from another message board, but someone there made the accusation that Nelson had an incident at the U that was covered up. This is an ugly situation that could get even worse.

Every family dynamic is different, but if I was out all night while my very pregnant wife was home with our other child, that house would be empty when I finally came home.
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That sounds miserable. "I am pregnant. Therefore you must stay in the house. You may never go out with your friends. I am putting you on a curfew."
God bless ya.
 

Dean S said:
At what point did Nelson know IK was unconscious? Before or after kicking? Does a man down prohibit a defensive strike if there is no knowledge about his condition? And, didn't Nelson have to go through people to get to the unconscious attacker? And, how much time does Nelson need to assess if he should or shouldn't counter attack in the 6 seconds from being hit to kicking the attacker? I think the ambiguity here requires a little leeway in allowing a defense. 2 am, after drinking, after getting hit, after being in an argument and leaving, was Nelson a little silly for turning his back and walking away prior to the fight? Or, was his head on right for heading away from the area before the fight? I think his state of mind was not to further exacerbate the situation. That the timeframe just prior to the fight, Nelson was already in retreat. He was leaving. The fight was brought to him and being how late in the evening and having consumed alcohol, I'm inclined to give Nelson's defense a little leeway. The existence of a threat may well be unknown to Nelson in the course of having had to go around the melee of people after having been hit and the shock and adrenaline that resulted.

I keep reading the whole thing took about 6 seconds on the tape, beginning to end. To me, that allows for doubt as to any premeditation on Nelson's part. I can not read minds. I don't know about the correlation of people to commit to any course of action in this situation. I don't know what is causative here on any of the facts. Therefore, I am erring on the side of caution. I don't think the condition of IK should dictate prosecution.

The only thing I can agree with everybody on is how tragic the situation resulted for IK.

The kick to the head seems simple and punitive. But, on examination of the circumstances, I believe there is a chance that it also could be viewed as a defensive opportunity, no matter how small the chance, it is possible. And, the fact that the blows were not ongoing clearly shows restraint and the intention of a judicious response.

I give my permission for one and all to correct any errors and omissions I may have in regard to the facts and counterpoints you may make. I am not committed to this viewpoint, whatsoever.
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The kick cannot be self-defense.

The law, at least in this and most states if not all, doesn't have the neo-con mentality. An analogy of pre-emptive war to pre-emptive attack in terms of self-defense would not hold up in court, especially in this scenario.
 


DMB123 said:
Seriously? Fun wife you have. I don't understand why a 24 year old man can't go out with his friends for a night simply because he's married with a kid? I guess I shouldn't go to the Twins game tonight with 3 friends of mine because my girlfirend and our 4 yr old daughter will be home alone all nite. Some of the men on this board really need to grow a pair. Blaming Kolstad for spending a nite out with his buddies is absurd. Blaming him for sucker punching a guy from behind is warranted.
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You have a child and you're not married?!?!? The message board gasps. Forget the game, how can you contemplate going anywhere but an altar? Then stay home and protect your family 24 hours a day!
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
This came from another message board, but someone there made the accusation that Nelson had an incident at the U that was covered up. This is an ugly situation that could get even worse.

Every family dynamic is different, but if I was out all night while my very pregnant wife was home with our other child, that house would be empty when I finally came home.
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This is the sort of thing that I was getting at in my original question. These things don't just "come out of the blue". Kicking someone in the head when they're unconscious is a whole different ballgame. I think there were hints at this for a long time.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Not everyone. Just people with wives, children, and responsibilities. You're free to do whatever the hell you want, and the rest of us are free to judge you as the irresponsible immature moron that you are when you're out partying (not working) past 2 am with a wife, daughter, and soon-to-be born child at home. Oh, and you just went on a guy's trip to Vegas the weekend before. This just keeps getting better and better. What an upstanding model of Christian virtue!
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Wow. Don't even know what to say about this post, other than I'm so glad I'm not you.

So a married man with kids can't go out for a night with friends? And Christians can't go to Vegas? Got it.
 

As this case moves forward I have a feeling that we will find out that IK, PN, and Redshirt are no mama's boys. It will be a sh!tshow for these young men and their families. It's already national.

Why couldn't they have all just walked away.
 



Indi1006 said:
Sounds like Phil was maybe even walking away walking away when it all escalated. I'll sleep at night not wanting to lock him up and throw away the key. Everyone is so quick to judge, but things are never quite so black and white.
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Did you even read the police report? The "punch" that Kolstad threw wasn't even a "fighting punch" and PN saw Kolstad already on the ground before he pushed past everyone and then he went up and kicked him
 

DMB123 said:
Wow. Don't even know what to say about this post, other than I'm so glad I'm not you.

So a married man with kids can't go out for a night with friends? And Christians can't go to Vegas? Got it.
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Yes, when you completely mischaracterize my argument, you're right! Please cite where I said someone with a wife and kids can't go out for a night with friends. Also, please cite where I said Christians can't go to Vegas. Thanks in advance!

It has nothing to do with "sacking up" or "letting my wife control me" or whatever garbage you're thinking of. It's being a man and taking care of your responsibilities as such.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Not everyone. Just people with wives, children, and responsibilities. You're free to do whatever the hell you want, and the rest of us are free to judge you as the irresponsible immature moron that you are when you're out partying (not working) past 2 am with a wife, daughter, and soon-to-be born child at home. Oh, and you just went on a guy's trip to Vegas the weekend before. This just keeps getting better and better. What an upstanding model of Christian virtue!
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I have a wife, daughter, and son. Youngest is 18 months. I'm traveling for work this week. I also plan on following my routine of walking up to the bar on Friday night after putting the kids to bed. Sometimes I don't come home until 2 am.

Guess I am an irresponsible moron who should be out working on Friday night.
 

Replacement Gopher said:
I have a wife, daughter, and son. Youngest is 18 months. I'm traveling for work this week. I also plan on following my routine of walking up to the bar on Friday night after putting the kids to bed. Sometimes I don't come home until 2 am.

Guess I am an irresponsible moron who should be out working on Friday night.
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You don't at all fit the profile I listed above, but thanks for trying!
 



Replacement Gopher said:
You have a child and you're not married?!?!? The message board gasps. Forget the game, how can you contemplate going anywhere but an altar? Then stay home and protect your family 24 hours a day!
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Forget that, according to Dpodoll and Breakin' the plane I need to somehow reconcile meeting friends for beers on a Saturday night while my girlfriend and daughter are at home sleeping. That's my real crime. To Dpodoll that makes me an "irresponsible immature moron." Oh, and I guess it also means I'm not a Christian.
 

Gopherguy0723 said:
The kick cannot be self-defense.

The law, at least in this and most states if not all, doesn't have the neo-con mentality. An analogy of pre-emptive war to pre-emptive attack in terms of self-defense would not hold up in court, especially in this scenario.
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It doesn't matter what the law says or whether or not Nelson spends any time in prison. What he did was so incredibly malicious it cannot be defended in any way by a rational person. Nelson will have to live with what he did for the rest of his life. I have to believe Rutgers is already looking for a way to wash their hands of him.
 

DMB123 said:
Forget that, according to Dpodoll and Breakin' the plane I need to somehow reconcile meeting friends for beers on a Saturday night while my girlfriend and daughter are at home sleeping. That's my real crime. To Dpodoll that makes me an "irresponsible immature moron." Oh, and I guess it also means I'm not a Christian.
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Again, you're totally mischaracterizing what I'm saying. It's easy to "win" an argument when you make up what the other person is saying.
 


Gopherguy0723 said:
The kick cannot be self-defense.

The law, at least in this and most states if not all, doesn't have the neo-con mentality. An analogy of pre-emptive war to pre-emptive attack in terms of self-defense would not hold up in court, especially in this scenario.
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Not a neocon.

Maybe just having to ascertain who his attacker was in a group of people and seeing him down is enough to charge Nelson, as has happened. I am off to do some work...
 


dpodoll68 said:
His wife is very late in her pregnancy with their 2nd child. I'm assuming your girlfriend isn't 8-9 months pregnant?

Also, are you going to be staying out until after 2 am?
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Maybe if I am celebrating my friends' graduation.

Am I the only person in here that is actually remaining neutral?
 

dpodoll68 said:
Yes, when you completely mischaracterize my argument, you're right! Please cite where I said someone with a wife and kids can't go out for a night with friends. Also, please cite where I said Christians can't go to Vegas. Thanks in advance!

It has nothing to do with "sacking up" or "letting my wife control me" or whatever garbage you're thinking of. It's being a man and taking care of your responsibilities as such.
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You said that makes them an "irresponsible immature moron" if they do go out for a night and leave the wife and kids at home. And this thread has been derailed enough by you already, and it's not the right thread for a pissing match, so I'm done with you.
 

BarnBoy said:
Maybe if I am celebrating my friends' graduation.

Am I the only person in here that is actually remaining neutral?
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I'm totally neutral. I want it to be clear that whatever type of person Kolstad is has no bearing on whether Nelson is guilty and whatever punishment is warranted should be served. Aside from that, I have the right to my opinion as to what type of person he is if his late-term pregnant wife and daughter are at home while he's out starting bar fights past 2 am.
 


DMB123 said:
I've stayed home with my daughter plenty of nights while she was out with a friend or friends, I don't mind at all. And she's done the same for me. I'm just saying I don't see why Kolstad can't have a night out with friends, it's not a big deal. It's not as if you have to stay home and batten down the hatches during the final month of pregnancy. We still went out and had fun, even after her due date as a matter of fact. Again, judging Kolstad for going out til 2am is stupid. What he did at about 2:05am is what was stupid.
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Completely agree.
 

Dean S said:
Not a neocon.

Maybe just having to ascertain who his attacker was in a group of people and seeing him down is enough to charge Nelson, as has happened. I am off to do some work...
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Sorry, I wasn't calling you one.

In any event, in Minnesota, you have a duty to retreat, unless a felony his occurring in your home. Nelson needed to retreat if possible, and he could have.
 


dpodoll68 said:
I'm totally neutral. I want it to be clear that whatever type of person Kolstad is has no bearing on whether Nelson is guilty and whatever punishment is warranted should be served. Aside from that, I have the right to my opinion as to what type of person he is if his late-term pregnant wife and daughter are at home while he's out starting bar fights past 2 am.
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Fair enough.

My gut tells me that there is plenty that we don't know (i.e. not in the police report) and that there is plenty of blame to go around. How I see it:

  • Very unlikely that Nelson was cold-cocked just randomly, out-of-the-blue, by IK. I am sure there is more to this than we know.
  • Cold-cocking someone from behind is not cool.
  • Unconscious people don't deserve to get kicked, let alone in the head.
  • I am glad I am older, with kids and don't have to deal with these types of scenes. They are 95% avoidable.
 

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_25752101/second-suspect-arrested-mankato-assault-case

Second suspect arrested. Not confirmed if he was a Christian.
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A second suspect has been arrested in connection with a weekend fight that left a former Minnesota State Mankato linebacker critically injured.

Mankato city spokeswoman Shelly Schulz said Tuesday that a second suspect is in custody in the beating of Isaac Dallas Kolstad, 24.

Schulz says she has no additional details but that authorities will issue an updated news release later in the day.
 

DMB123 said:
Wow. Don't even know what to say about this post, other than I'm so glad I'm not you.

So a married man with kids can't go out for a night with friends? And Christians can't go to Vegas? Got it.
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sorry for your loss.
 

Maximus said:
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_25752101/second-suspect-arrested-mankato-assault-case

Second suspect arrested. Not confirmed if he was a Christian.
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A second suspect has been arrested in connection with a weekend fight that left a former Minnesota State Mankato linebacker critically injured.

Mankato city spokeswoman Shelly Schulz said Tuesday that a second suspect is in custody in the beating of Isaac Dallas Kolstad, 24.

Schulz says she has no additional details but that authorities will issue an updated news release later in the day.
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He was either working or he wasn't. Irresponsible moron or providing for his family.
 

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