Fleck has become worse than Kill

STPGopher

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I think every team in the Big 10 has been to the Rose Bowl more recently than the University of Minnesota Golden Gophers.
Indiana was sooner only because we had been there sooner in 67'
 
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50PoundHead

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Claeys wasn’t fired for conduct of players
He was fired for his communication with media and admin in the wake of the alleged incident
Claeys was fired for not reading the signature at bottom of his paycheck or seeing the logo at the top.

Maybe he had direct deposit.
 

GopherBulldog

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Did you mean in 2022? In 2023 I could make a case for every team in the Big Ten West (except Northwestern) to win the division. I would seriously feel better about any of those teams (again, except Northwestern) if I were a fan. They are all just as talented as Minnesota, if not more so, and they have the distinct advantage of being led by head coaches who don't actively handcuff their teams and reduce their chances of winning.

This was our year, and we blew it, because we have possibly the most conservative head coach in college football. Go back and look at the non-conference schedule. Remember when we were throwing in those games (and completing long passes) while up by dozens of points? What the hell happened once we hit the Purdue game and beyond? Who the fuck knows, but I know that repeating that strategy in 2023 will have us somewhere in the ballpark of 3-9 to 5-7.
This was our year and we blew it? You could say that about 2019 and 2021. We could have won the West either of those years. Which is my point. We should be right there again in 2023. As frustrating as the Iowa losses were and how stubborn PJ seems to be, being right there every year is a positive step for the program. The “this was our year and we blew it” is not the level I see us at right now. We have been there too many times in the recent past.
 

PMWinSTP

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This was our year and we blew it? You could say that about 2019 and 2021. We could have won the West either of those years. Which is my point. We should be right there again in 2023. As frustrating as the Iowa losses were and how stubborn PJ seems to be, being right there every year is a positive step for the program. The “this was our year and we blew it” is not the level I see us at right now. We have been there too many times in the recent past.
OK, so Fleck and Co have blown three opportunities to win the West, correct?
 
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dpodoll68

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This was our year and we blew it? You could say that about 2019 and 2021. We could have won the West either of those years. Which is my point. We should be right there again in 2023. As frustrating as the Iowa losses were and how stubborn PJ seems to be, being right there every year is a positive step for the program. The “this was our year and we blew it” is not the level I see us at right now. We have been there too many times in the recent past.
This was our year because IA and WI are both the worst they've been in a long time, and we have an old roster filled with talented players. It makes me sick that Iowa is going to win the West, again, and they weren't even mediocre this year, let alone good. I would argue that this is Iowa's worst team in at least 10 years, and Wisconsin's worst team in at least 14 years if not longer. And despite those both happening simultaneously, along with us concurrently having one of our better teams in decades, we STILL couldn't win the division. It's hard to think anything other than - if it didn't happen this year, when is it EVER going to happen?

I wish I shared your optimism for 2023, but I truly don't see how we're even competitive in the conference next year. We're effectively trading Rutgers for Michigan, and PSU for OSU. (The latter doesn't really matter, since we were boatraced by PSU and it will be even worse at Columbus next year.) We are also going to get destroyed at Chapel Hill. If we had the 2023 schedule this year, we're sitting at 5-6 hoping to win in Madison to squeeze into a bowl game. And you think we're going to compete for the Big Ten West next year, against a much tougher schedule, with a worse roster? I think you're crazy, but maybe that's just me. I see maybe 3 Big Ten wins next year, and even that might be generous.
 



GopherBulldog

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This was our year because IA and WI are both the worst they've been in a long time, and we have an old roster filled with talented players. It makes me sick that Iowa is going to win the West, again, and they weren't even mediocre this year, let alone good. I would argue that this is Iowa's worst team in at least 10 years, and Wisconsin's worst team in at least 14 years if not longer. And despite those both happening simultaneously, along with us concurrently having one of our better teams in decades, we STILL couldn't win the division. It's hard to think anything other than - if it didn't happen this year, when is it EVER going to happen?

I wish I shared your optimism for 2023, but I truly don't see how we're even competitive in the conference next year. We're effectively trading Rutgers for Michigan, and PSU for OSU. (The latter doesn't really matter, since we were boatraced by PSU and it will be even worse at Columbus next year.) We are also going to get destroyed at Chapel Hill. If we had the 2023 schedule this year, we're sitting at 5-6 hoping to win in Madison to squeeze into a bowl game. And you think we're going to compete for the Big Ten West next year, against a much tougher schedule, with a worse roster? I think you're crazy, but maybe that's just me. I see maybe 3 Big Ten wins next year, and even that might be generous.
Jesus. North Carolina doesn’t count against our B1G record. We are essentially one more dog next year vs. this year. Iowa with the same schedule, as you note, will win the West this year. I’m also frustrated as hell. But there isn’t another team in the West next year that scares me. We should be right there and playing meaningful games in November for 4 out of last 5 years.
 

Some guy

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He was fired because Coyle didn't hire Claeys and he wanted PJ from the jump. Didn't matter what happened Coyle was going to use anything he could to get rid of Claeys. Would have been easy if Claeys lost, but he had a good year so they had to make the scandal look as bad as possible. Typical with a new AD coming in. Coyle just didn't have the balls to be honest and just say I want my guy.
He was fired for publicly embarrassing the university, state, and humanity in general
 

dpodoll68

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Jesus. North Carolina doesn’t count against our B1G record. We are essentially one more dog next year vs. this year. Iowa with the same schedule, as you note, will win the West this year. I’m also frustrated as hell. But there isn’t another team in the West next year that scares me. We should be right there and playing meaningful games in November for 4 out of last 5 years.
Respectfully, saying we "should" be competitive next year isn't an argument. Take an unbiased look at the data. We're going to go 8-4 or 7-5 (probably the latter) against a schedule in which we were favored in 10 games. We will end the season favored in 7 of 9 Big Ten games, and will win either 4 or 5. Next year we're going to be favored in maybe 6 games (3 or 4 in the Big Ten), and we're going to be competitive in the West? With the same success rate next year, we're going to go 3-9 or 4-8.
 



Some guy

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Jesus. North Carolina doesn’t count against our B1G record. We are essentially one more dog next year vs. this year. Iowa with the same schedule, as you note, will win the West this year. I’m also frustrated as hell. But there isn’t another team in the West next year that scares me. We should be right there and playing meaningful games in November for 4 out of last 5 years.
Agree
We win the west next year
 



50PoundHead

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This was our year because IA and WI are both the worst they've been in a long time, and we have an old roster filled with talented players. It makes me sick that Iowa is going to win the West, again, and they weren't even mediocre this year, let alone good. I would argue that this is Iowa's worst team in at least 10 years, and Wisconsin's worst team in at least 14 years if not longer. And despite those both happening simultaneously, along with us concurrently having one of our better teams in decades, we STILL couldn't win the division. It's hard to think anything other than - if it didn't happen this year, when is it EVER going to happen?

I wish I shared your optimism for 2023, but I truly don't see how we're even competitive in the conference next year. We're effectively trading Rutgers for Michigan, and PSU for OSU. (The latter doesn't really matter, since we were boatraced by PSU and it will be even worse at Columbus next year.) We are also going to get destroyed at Chapel Hill. If we had the 2023 schedule this year, we're sitting at 5-6 hoping to win in Madison to squeeze into a bowl game. And you think we're going to compete for the Big Ten West next year, against a much tougher schedule, with a worse roster? I think you're crazy, but maybe that's just me. I see maybe 3 Big Ten wins next year, and even that might be generous.
Don't know about 2023, but agree that with Iowa and Wisconsin looking to take a step back this year, I thought that our opportunity was right in front of us like it hadn't been in previous year.
 



GopherBulldog

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Respectfully, saying we "should" be competitive next year isn't an argument. Take an unbiased look at the data. We're going to go 8-4 or 7-5 (probably the latter) against a schedule in which we were favored in 10 games. We will end the season favored in 7 of 9 Big Ten games, and will win either 4 or 5. Next year we're going to be favored in maybe 6 games (3 or 4 in the Big Ten), and we're going to be competitive in the West? With the same success rate next year, we're going to go 3-9 or 4-8.
What teams in the West do you believe are at a level above the Gophers that it would be unrealistic that we could beat them next year? I say no one. This team is in as good a place as any to compete for the B1G West next year. As we were this year. And in 2021. And in 2019. This is my point.
 


PMWinSTP

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Correct.
Nor should fleck be embarrassed for making the team competitive but failing to go all the way
At some point soon it will matter, as soon as next season. Not being fired, but having the rep of not winning when it really matters. That's the thing when expectations get raised.
 

Some guy

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At some point soon it will matter, as soon as next season. Not being fired, but having the rep of not winning when it really matters. That's the thing when expectations get raised.
For sure. Who disagrees?
You’re arguing with nobody.
If we still aren’t over the hump in 3 years more people will be on your side.

The question is, are you going to be a whiny bitch for 2 more years or just see what happens?
 

PMWinSTP

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Really? It doesn’t matter that we’ve been right there 3 of the last 4 years? Please.
It doesn't matter what HCs before him did or didn't do. He didn't coach those teams, unless I am missing something.
 


DanvilleGopher

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Ranking at least on 247 would say otherwise. I agree with you though, the recruiting hasn't been good here. Ever really. Generally the Gophers fall in that 9-12 range in BT ranks.

I don't know though. Rankings probably don't mean too much with classes being so big. The key is to hit on starters on both sides of the ball.
14th in the B1G in 2022 pretty much sums things up!

From 247 btw...
 
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dpodoll68

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What teams in the West do you believe are at a level above the Gophers that it would be unrealistic that we could beat them next year? I say no one. This team is in as good a place as any to compete for the B1G West next year. As we were this year. And in 2021. And in 2019. This is my point.
There aren't any, just like there weren't any this year. And yet we're probably going to go 2-4 against the West this year.

Do you deny that we're going to have a less talented roster next year? And do you deny that Wisconsin and Iowa are almost certainly going to be better next year? I think anyone who denies any of those three is lying to themselves. And when we go 1-2 against the East next year (at best), that means we're going to need to go 5-1 or 6-0 against the West to win it. In reality, I think we go 2-1 in the nonconference, 1-2 against the East, and 2-4 against the West. That's 5-7, and honestly that's even optimistic against what we'll likely do.
 

Some guy

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There aren't any, just like there weren't any this year. And yet we're probably going to go 2-4 against the West this year.

Do you deny that we're going to have a less talented roster next year? And do you deny that Wisconsin and Iowa are almost certainly going to be better next year? I think anyone who denies any of those three is lying to themselves. And when we go 1-2 against the East next year (at best), that means we're going to need to go 5-1 or 6-0 against the West to win it. In reality, I think we go 2-1 in the nonconference, 1-2 against the East, and 2-4 against the West. That's 5-7, and honestly that's even optimistic against what we'll likely do.
I get Mn is going to be worse
I think Iowa will be better
Why do you think wisconsin will be better? I disagree with that one.

They’re kind a wild car, but if they aren’t successful in the portal they’ll be worse. If they’re unsuccessful in the portal (and lose key guys) they’ll be much worse.

You’re pretty negative
Purdue will be worse
Illinois will be worse
If northwestern loses hull they might be the worst big ten team in 20 years
Michigan state is a wild card
Honestly haven’t watched UNC since the app state game

I could see us winning 5
I could see us winning 10
You think 5 is optimistic? If you think 5 is optimistic and it’ll actually be worse I assume you want to move on from the coach? If I expected 4-8 or 5-7 I would want to move on from the coach
 

dpodoll68

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I get Mn is going to be worse
I think Iowa will be better
Why do you think wisconsin will be better? I disagree with that one.

They’re kind a wild car, but if they aren’t successful in the portal they’ll be worse. If they’re unsuccessful in the portal (and lose key guys) they’ll be much worse.
I assume Wisconsin is going to be better because this year they are much worse than their 10-, 20-, 30-year moving average and I assume a reversion to the mean. Even assuming that they aren't, that means we'll go 6-6 (4-5) instead of 5-7 (3-6). I'm all atwitter with excitement.
 


Some guy

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I assume Wisconsin is going to be better because this year they are much worse than their 10-, 20-, 30-year moving average and I assume a reversion to the mean. Even assuming that they aren't, that means we'll go 6-6 (3-6) instead of 5-7 (2-7). I'm all atwitter with excitement.
So are you ready to move on?
Wisconsin clearly thinks they’ll be worse, which is why they fired their coach

Pretty odd take to say that Wisconsin will be better next year and anyone who thinks differently is lying to themselves with your reasoning being a reversion to a 30 year mean?
You think Ron Dayne means wisconsin will be better next year? Because that literally is what you just argued
 





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