Fleck has become worse than Kill


GopherBulldog

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In some of these threads I feel like I’ve been transported into Crazy Town. Why are we still comparing Fleck to Kill? Why are we doomed to mediocrity? Seriously, in 2023 what team would you feel better about than the Gophers in the B1G West? We lost a game to Iowa that we should have won. We will enter 2023 the same as 2022. With a B1G West that will be wide open. One of the most exciting divisions in the country given so many teams have a shot. Schedule is tougher by one game that we will be a strong dog in. We just gotta find a way to win games like Iowa and Purdue and we’ll be fine.
 

GoForGold

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In some of these threads I feel like I’ve been transported into Crazy Town. Why are we still comparing Fleck to Kill? Why are we doomed to mediocrity? Seriously, in 2023 what team would you feel better about than the Gophers in the B1G West? We lost a game to Iowa that we should have won. We will enter 2023 the same as 2022. With a B1G West that will be wide open. One of the most exciting divisions in the country given so many teams have a shot. Schedule is tougher by one game that we will be a strong dog in. We just gotta find a way to win games like Iowa and Purdue and we’ll be fine.
Yes! I'm already looking forward to next season. I have my hotel reservation booked in Durham for next year's game against the Tar Heels.
 


PMWinSTP

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Yes! I'm already looking forward to next season. I have my hotel reservation booked in Durham for next year's game against the Tar Heels.
Most likely our road game as well. Plus a same day flight in and out for NW. Have to figure out the logistics of Soldier Field.
 


PMWinSTP

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In some of these threads I feel like I’ve been transported into Crazy Town. Why are we still comparing Fleck to Kill? Why are we doomed to mediocrity? Seriously, in 2023 what team would you feel better about than the Gophers in the B1G West? We lost a game to Iowa that we should have won. We will enter 2023 the same as 2022. With a B1G West that will be wide open. One of the most exciting divisions in the country given so many teams have a shot. Schedule is tougher by one game that we will be a strong dog in. We just gotta find a way to win games like Iowa and Purdue and we’ll be fine.
The crossover games.
 

DanvilleGopher

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A sign needs to be placed on all freeway exits leading to Huntington Bank Stadium saying "Welcome to Mediocreville."
Too bad that doesn't cover recruiting. This is what will hit the gophers hard in the next few years, the absolute decline we've taken in recruiting, really ever since we went 11-2.

I thought we'd go the other direction after a great season. Not sure why we weren't able to capitalize and there are many on here who will point to Covid, but all teams dealt with that so that isn't a valid excuse.

I pointed this out 2 years ago, the decline recruiting started taking at that time, and was called a star chaser.

We're once again near the bottom and not even mediocre when it comes to recruiting rankings for B1G teams. This was the primary reason for me to get excited when Fleck was hired.
 

USAF

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Too bad that doesn't cover recruiting. This is what will hit the gophers hard in the next few years, the absolute decline we've taken in recruiting, really ever since we went 11-2.

I thought we'd go the other direction after a great season. Not sure why we weren't able to capitalize and there are many on here who will point to Covid, but all teams dealt with that so that isn't a valid excuse.

I pointed this out 2 years ago, the decline recruiting started taking at that time, and was called a star chaser.

We're once again near the bottom and not even mediocre when it comes to recruiting rankings for B1G teams. This was the primary reason for me to get excited when Fleck was hired.
Yup, we've really dropped off. Disappointing.
 




GopherBulldog

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Too bad that doesn't cover recruiting. This is what will hit the gophers hard in the next few years, the absolute decline we've taken in recruiting, really ever since we went 11-2.

I thought we'd go the other direction after a great season. Not sure why we weren't able to capitalize and there are many on here who will point to Covid, but all teams dealt with that so that isn't a valid excuse.

I pointed this out 2 years ago, the decline recruiting started taking at that time, and was called a star chaser.

We're once again near the bottom and not even mediocre when it comes to recruiting rankings for B1G teams. This was the primary reason for me to get excited when Fleck was hired.
Is this really true? We were 11-2 in 2019. Would have mostly impacted 2020 recruiting. Those kids come in in 2021 and would likely be redshirt freshmen this year. Where does the drop off from the 11-2 season enter the picture?
 


Some Day...Maybe

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Nope. I said I thought it was remarkable under the conditions there had not been any fumbles for both sides. Just a random football thought.

Of course Mo was the answer.

As JG just offered on the KFAN Sunday Gophers show, Mo had fumbled 3 + 1 = 4 times over his career since 2018. Highly improbable that Mo would be the source of a fumble on a carry. However, a bad handoff, QB let's it slip, center loses grip...all are more probable than what actually happened.
But great call to give it to him for his 10th or 11th carry in a row on 3rd and 6.
 

Some Day...Maybe

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We are 7-0 against teams with losing records.
We are 0-4 against teams with winning records. 🤷‍♂️
Glad the most connected team Fleck has ever had that is senior laden can’t beat a team with a winning record at home.
 



Some Day...Maybe

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7-4 really isn't a bad place to be if this is considered a disappointing season. I'll gladly take an 8-4 season on a regular basis and the occasional 10-2 season. I really question whether this program has any more potential than that, which is true with many if not most Big Ten teams. With the revenue sharing from TV and Bowls the Big Ten has decent parity.
I think every team in the Big 10 has been to the Rose Bowl more recently than the University of Minnesota Golden Gophers.
 

Gophergrandpa

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Fleck recruits tirelessly and is an excellent CEO coach. Excellent. He brings in good kids and turns them out good men. He ensures that they are STUDENT athletes. He gives them great lessons in life, not just in football. His positivism is great for the players’ mental health (I’m serious). He runs a tremendous organization. And he knows football.

But something has happened over the past few years. He doesn’t coach—or at least field—a balanced offense anymore. He did when he got here, but now he has thrown the passing game away. Why? My radical thought is because of Mo. Mo is so effing good, so reliable, so effective, so flat out superior, that PJ has essentially stopped affirmatively promoting or coaching up a balanced offense. Why do anything else when you can just give Mo the ball? Why pass if you can win solely by running? Why suffer all the mess and bother of piecing together a passing game?

Next year will be a culture shock. PJ and his OC (making no assumptions) will have to actively coach the offense again. Will have to actively game plan for games against toss-up and better opponents in which we can’t just feed Mo over, and over, and over and over. Maybe Mo’s absence will allow other facets of the offense to blossom again (instead of being ghosted).
 
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Gopher_In_NYC

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Thought you were leaving us? I was in a state of mourning, okay, celebration 🎊 🍾🎉💯

Or don’t you have anything better to do than complain 24 hours after a loss?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Pro tip sport: a real fan sucks it up and watches the next game.
 

GopherBulldog

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Glad the most connected team Fleck has ever had that is senior laden can’t beat a team with a winning record at home.
That is bad. And it seems worse when put that way. Another way to look at it is that the only teams with winning records that Iowa beat is Purdue and us. I don’t need to go back into all the reasons why that could have very easily reversed in our favor. We are not competing with juggernauts that are running the table against top 25 completion. I would guess that other than some of the tradition blue bloods this is consistent across college FB. The margins are razor thin. And will again be in 2023.
 

Gophergrandpa

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Too bad that doesn't cover recruiting. This is what will hit the gophers hard in the next few years, the absolute decline we've taken in recruiting, really ever since we went 11-2.

I thought we'd go the other direction after a great season. Not sure why we weren't able to capitalize and there are many on here who will point to Covid, but all teams dealt with that so that isn't a valid excuse.

I pointed this out 2 years ago, the decline recruiting started taking at that time, and was called a star chaser.

We're once again near the bottom and not even mediocre when it comes to recruiting rankings for B1G teams. This was the primary reason for me to get excited when Fleck was hired.
There letters: NIL. It isn’t Fleck’s m fault that the Gopher's program has no big time booster/bagmen to exploit the NIL pay-for-play corruption of college sports. You need to buy a clue. You’re living in the past.
 

Some Day...Maybe

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Fleck recruits tirelessly and is an excellent CEO coach. Excellent. He brings in good kids and turns them out good men. He ensures that they are STUDENT athletes. He gives them great lessons in life, not just in football. His positivism is great for the players’ mental health (I’m serious). He runs a tremendous organization. And he knows football.

But something had happened. He doesn’t coach a balanced offense anymore. He did when he got here, but now he had thrown the passing game away. Why? My radical thought is because of Mo. Mo is so effing good, so reliable, so effective, so flat out superior, that PJ has essentially stopped affirmatively promoting or coaching up a balanced offense. Why do anything else when you can just give Mo the ball? Why pass?

Next year will be a culture shock. PJ and his OC (making no assumptions) will have to actively coach the offense again. Will have to actively game plan for games against toss-up and better opponents in which we can’t just feed Mo over, and over, and over and over. Maybe Mo’s absence will allow other facets of the offense to blossom again (instead of being ghosted).
Thank God! I hope you’re right! The games will be watchable again and decent receivers may actually want to play here again. Fleck has 100% lost his luster.
 
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Some Day...Maybe

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Fleck recruits tirelessly and is an excellent CEO coach. Excellent. He brings in good kids and turns them out good men. He ensures that they are STUDENT athletes. He gives them great lessons in life, not just in football. His positivism is great for the players’ mental health (I’m serious). He runs a tremendous organization. And he knows football.

But something had happened. He doesn’t coach a balanced offense anymore. He did when he got here, but now he had thrown the passing game away. Why? My radical thought is because of Mo. Mo is so effing good, so reliable, so effective, so flat out superior, that PJ has essentially stopped affirmatively promoting or coaching up a balanced offense. Why do anything else when you can just give Mo the ball? Why pass?

Next year will be a culture shock. PJ and his OC (making no assumptions) will have to actively coach the offense again. Will have to actively game plan for games against toss-up and better opponents in which we can’t just feed Mo over, and over, and over and over. Maybe Mo’s absence will allow other facets of the offense to blossom again (instead of being ghosted).
Thank God! I hope you’re right! The games will be watchable again and decent receivers may actually want to play here again. Fleck had 100% lost his luster.
Thought you were leaving us? I was in a state of mourning, okay, celebration 🎊 🍾🎉💯

Or don’t you have anything better to do than complain 24 hours after a loss?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Pro tip sport: a real fan sucks it up and watches the next game.
I’m not a real fan then, guess I’m a smart fan.
 

Some guy

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Kill and Fleck got us a couple of steps further than Mason. Kill got us to a New Year's Day bowl and Fleck got us a New Year's Day bowl win. Maybe a New Year's 6 bowl is possible. Competing for a National Title is not at all realistic as far as I'm concerned. Would another coach get the program another step further? I suppose it's possible but there's a better chance we go backwards. Firing a coach like Fleck with decent success here will not make the job attractive at all.
Gophers were
In some of these threads I feel like I’ve been transported into Crazy Town. Why are we still comparing Fleck to Kill? Why are we doomed to mediocrity? Seriously, in 2023 what team would you feel better about than the Gophers in the B1G West? We lost a game to Iowa that we should have won. We will enter 2023 the same as 2022. With a B1G West that will be wide open. One of the most exciting divisions in the country given so many teams have a shot. Schedule is tougher by one game that we will be a strong dog in. We just gotta find a way to win games like Iowa and Purdue and we’ll be fine.
bexause some people still aren’t over it
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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I’m not a real fan then, guess I’m a smart fan.

Congrats admitting you have a problem is the first step in recovery.

It will be difficult, but I and the rest of the board will endeavor to persevere despite your absence.
 

Some Day...Maybe

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There letters: NIL. It isn’t Fleck’s m fault that the Gopher's program has no big time booster/bagmen to exploit the NIL pay-for-play corruption of college sports. You need to buy a clue. You’re living in the past.
That’s a lazy take. Do Iowa and Purdue have bagmen and big NIL deals? Guess Fleck better work harder at trying to cultivate some then. There are only a few alumni of the University of Minnesota.
 

Gophergrandpa

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That’s a lazy take. Do Iowa and Purdue have bagmen and big NIL deals? Guess Fleck better work harder at trying to cultivate some then. There are only a few alumni of the University of Minnesota.
That’s a lazy take. Do Iowa and Purdue have bagmen and big NIL deals? Guess Fleck better work harder at trying to cultivate some then. There are only a few alumni of the University of Minnesota.
We already recruit we’ll enough to be Iowa and Purdue. We have absolutely blitzed Iowa statistically in 3 of the last 4 games. We have been out coached in those losses. This isn’t a recruiting problem. It is a coaching/game planning problem,
 

GopherPharmaBiz

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But something had happened. He doesn’t coach a balanced offense anymore. He did when he got here, but now he had thrown the passing game away. Why? My radical thought is because of Mo. Mo is so effing good, so reliable, so effective, so flat out superior, that PJ has essentially stopped affirmatively promoting or coaching up a balanced offense. Why do anything else when you can just give Mo the ball? Why pass?
I don’t even think it’s that radical of a thought. That’s what happened plus Fleck’s weird obsession with Tressel-ball. He loves Mo, wants to get him a bunch of records and can play Tressel-ball all at the same time.
 

Gophers_4life

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A little more than ten years ago, Brewster went 7-5.
Started 7-1

Dropped last four to NW, then Michigan, @ Wisc, and Iowa in a row.

Lost by 3 in Madison. Then lost the home and regular season finale to Iowa 0-55, to finish 7-5. This might've been the infamous "Iowa fans doing it in the bathroom stall" game?


What are you saying .... :(
 

DanvilleGopher

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There letters: NIL. It isn’t Fleck’s m fault that the Gopher's program has no big time booster/bagmen to exploit the NIL pay-for-play corruption of college sports. You need to buy a clue. You’re living in the past.
Yep, I was one of the folks who said NIL will hurt the Gophers big time and said: to me the court ruling was the death of college sports, period. While this has no doubt hurt recruiting, how can you recruit high caliber offensive players when you're ultra conservative and try and run the ball down teams throats continuously. If you're a high end receiver/tight end/QB, why would you come here if you're not going to hone your skills for the next level?

You point to Mo and his over usage as the reason the offense has stagnated... and yes, Mo is incredible and for some reason they just continue to go with Mo as it works, MOST of the time. When it doesn't, there isn't any other option as the passing game and all it's intricacies like screens and other creative plays to get receivers open are never used and honed when they're 'not needed'. Heck, maybe the OC doesn't have these plays in his arsenal?? When was the last time we saw a trick or truly creative play run by the offense? When they turn to the passing game on 3rd and long, it's mostly a disaster. You claim Fleck is a tremendous CEO. Fleck does not LEARN from his mistakes. Huge part of being a successful CEO. The guy is so stubborn. Does he really eat difficult conversations for breakfast?

Not sure why you're telling me I need to 'buy a clue' and to 'stop living in the past'. If NIL is the sole reason for their regression in recruiting, wouldn't that be effecting teams of the same ilk, like the rest of the B1G minus OS, Mich and possibly PS?

Fleck does bring in guys who seem to be upstanding human beings and I truly respect that aspect of what he does. His OC and DC coordinator hires that he had to turn around and fire, were huge mistakes and is another reason why our offensive recruiting has regressed, it's a piece of the overall puzzle at the very least.

You just can't play like he did yesterday. The margin for error is razor thin when playing like this against good teams. He did that in the Northwestern and Rutgers games and to me those are games you actually exercise some of your plays you're going to need at some point in a tight game. Instead, he just kept ramming the ball down their throats to get the win.

This my dear grandpa, does NOT equal an 'excellent' CEO IMHO!
 


Panthadad2

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Too bad that doesn't cover recruiting. This is what will hit the gophers hard in the next few years, the absolute decline we've taken in recruiting, really ever since we went 11-2.

I thought we'd go the other direction after a great season. Not sure why we weren't able to capitalize and there are many on here who will point to Covid, but all teams dealt with that so that isn't a valid excuse.

I pointed this out 2 years ago, the decline recruiting started taking at that time, and was called a star chaser.

We're once again near the bottom and not even mediocre when it comes to recruiting rankings for B1G teams. This was the primary reason for me to get excited when Fleck was hired.

Hmm. There was something else that happened in 2020 Minneapolis that could have had an impact too.
 




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