Fleck has become worse than Kill

Gophers_4life

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Hmm. There was something else that happened in 2020 Minneapolis that could have had an impact too.
I respectfully disagree that that stopped any recruit from picking the Gophers, such that if it had never happened they would have.

Can't know for sure, but I don't think so.
 

Spoofin

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Thought you were leaving us? I was in a state of mourning, okay, celebration 🎊 🍾🎉💯

Or don’t you have anything better to do than complain 24 hours after a loss?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Pro tip sport: a real fan sucks it up and watches the next game.
Few things bother me more than when people start talking about what "real fans" should do. Real fans support the coach, Real fans pretend beating cupcakes is impressive, Real fans stay positive no matter what, etc. etc.

I have been a season ticket holder for nearly 30-years, I still root for the Gophers every week, and I usually make a road game or two every year (I'll be in Madison this Saturday). On the other hand, I'm not a PJ fan, I am not impressed by being 7-4 having not beaten a single team with a winning record, I bet a fair sum against them in the Penn State game, and I am quite down on the direction of the program after this season. Am I not a "real fan"?
 

GopherBulldog

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Few things bother me more than when people start talking about what "real fans" should do. Real fans support the coach, Real fans pretend beating cupcakes is impressive, Real fans stay positive no matter what, etc. etc.

I have been a season ticket holder for nearly 30-years, I still root for the Gophers every week, and I usually make a road game or two every year (I'll be in Madison this Saturday). On the other hand, I'm not a PJ fan, I am not impressed by being 7-4 having not beaten a single team with a winning record, I bet a fair sum against them in the Penn State game, and I am quite down on the direction of the program after this season. Am I not a "real fan"?
For someone as engaged as you are and having been through some incredibly lean years, why are you down on them? Why not a fan of PJ? You could objectively argue that the past four years are as good as any four year stretch for 50+ years…
 

Spoofin

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For someone as engaged as you are and having been through some incredibly lean years, why are you down on them? Why not a fan of PJ? You could objectively argue that the past four years are as good as any four year stretch for 50+ years…
Why am I down on them? Because they had a very experienced team, the B1G West is weak, and our cross-over schedule was very generous. I fully expected us to win the B1G West this year - instead we went 0-4 against teams with a winning record. Beat Wisky and I might have a more positive outlook. No worries, I’ll survive 😀.

Why not a fan of PJ? Let’s just say PJ’s personality isn’t something I respond to. I’m not PJ’s target audience so that doesn’t really matter, but I’d rather listen to fingernails on a chalkboard than to PJ. His Gameday coaching is also poor.

Oh, things have been far worse. PJ has done well here. Again, I’m not suggesting he be fired. I do believe that his style has a shelf life tho and it is possible we have seen the peak. If his recruiting continues to decline, so will our results.
 

Jack jones

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I am not saying fire PJ but demand/ require ( if possible) to fire both his OC and DC. Neither did the job in all our losses this year. Yes, they were responsible for those losses. We have more talent than what was displayed Saturday.
 


Some guy

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I am not saying fire PJ but demand/ require ( if possible) to fire both his OC and DC. Neither did the job in all our losses this year. Yes, they were responsible for those losses. We have more talent than what was displayed Saturday.
You want to fire the DC off of the 7th best defense in the nation and the 3rd best scoring defense in the nation because we gave up 13 points to Iowa?


I’m out.
Can’t support you there sir
 

Jack jones

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Yes fire the DC who apparently forgot to develop a coverage that would have taken away the effectiveness of their tight end. Who had 85% of the total pass receiving yardage . No catches, Gophers win regardless of the fumble or pass interception.
 

beatles

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I am not saying fire PJ but demand/ require ( if possible) to fire both his OC and DC. Neither did the job in all our losses this year. Yes, they were responsible for those losses. We have more talent than what was displayed Saturday.
One of the dumbest posts in gopherhole history. Fire Rossi??? I have no words.
 

Some guy

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Yes fire the DC who apparently forgot to develop a coverage that would have taken away the effectiveness of their tight end. Who had 85% of the total pass receiving yardage . No catches, Gophers win regardless of the fumble or pass interception.
Got it, so you’d hire a DC who never gives up a yard.
Gotta call coach Yoast
 



GopherBulldog

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Why am I down on them? Because they had a very experienced team, the B1G West is weak, and our cross-over schedule was very generous. I fully expected us to win the B1G West this year - instead we went 0-4 against teams with a winning record. Beat Wisky and I might have a more positive outlook. No worries, I’ll survive 😀.

Why not a fan of PJ? Let’s just say PJ’s personality isn’t something I respond to. I’m not PJ’s target audience so that doesn’t really matter, but I’d rather listen to fingernails on a chalkboard than to PJ. His Gameday coaching is also poor.

Oh, things have been far worse. PJ has done well here. Again, I’m not suggesting he be fired. I do believe that his style has a shelf life tho and it is possible we have seen the peak. If his recruiting continues to decline, so will our results.
Honest post. Cannot fault you or anyone for not liking PJ’s persona. He’s openly said he’s not for everyone. As a fan, I do believe he’s taken this program to a level not seen in my lifetime. And I am not young. The loses to Iowa, especially the past two years, are insanely frustrating. What I see from PJ’s teams…. Good kids. Very easy to root for. By Minnesota standards, talent is good to very good. PJ also brings attention to the program in a way that other coaches have not (even if the way he does it may be off-putting to some). Conservative approach on offense is frustrating. Hopefully that changes with a more dynamic QB for next three years. Not sure why we cannot develop a special teams unit that can contribute vs. hold serve at best. We missed a great opportunity this year. But I believe we will have a team in 2023 that can be in the mix in November. No one else in the West scares me. At all. The game against Wisky this week is very important. As is next year to see if PJ can continue to play meaningful games in November. That said, I’m optimistic.
 


Live in the now

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There letters: NIL. It isn’t Fleck’s m fault that the Gopher's program has no big time booster/bagmen to exploit the NIL pay-for-play corruption of college sports. You need to buy a clue. You’re living in the past.
100 percent right.
 




GopherTakes

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No, just no. My only knocks on fleck are his timeout management and his lack of balls sometimes. Otherwise, he is a great coach and recruiter and should absolutely not get fired. I find it laughable that some people are calling for that.
I agree with you he shouldn't be fired and is a fine coach. Here's my issue with him

GGI made a great point about him on the Iowa Breakdown episode. Time and time again we hear him say "Change your best" and "Failure is growth", yet TIME AND TIME AGAIN he has done nothing to change his mindset/plan. He is constantly being called out for his play to not lose attitude in game management and it constantly back fires against >.500 teams. What has he not learned in his god awful clock and timeout management like you have said.

I would love for a media member to point this out in a presser to see what he would say. It bugs me because he is a very slogan heavy head coach which people make fun of. I on the other hand think they could be used well if he actually believed in what he is saying.
 

short ornery norwegian

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Fleck was brought in here to be better.

well, 6 years in, I think a fair assessment is that the program is in slightly better shape than it was under prior coaches. but only slightly.

there have not been huge strides in recruiting or attendance, and the on-field results show one really good year surrounded by OK but not great years.

I don't hate Fleck, but I don't think he has been a huge improvement.

maybe no one is capable of taking MN to "the next level." but after 6 years, I don't see Fleck accomplishing that feat, either.
 

Dupreefor3

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What a terrible season. Chicken shit Fleck. Hopefully next year will be better. If it’s like this year I’m out. Got better things to do with my like.
Kill overall record was (Not counting the games Claeys coached in 2013 and 2015) was 25-26, lost all of his bowl games, he did win the Pig Twice and the Jug, but lost to the Badgers every year as well. Fleck is 41-26, won all his Bowls, beat the Badgers twice, is the only coach since Warmeth to win six or more conference games and he's done it twice. Don't think Kill can hold a candle to Fleck and as someone who had their own struggles with epilepsy, I think the world of Kill and at the time was very sad to see him go.
 

50PoundHead

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Only thing Kill did better was recruit faster LBs. Our guys have motors, but they don't appear to be connected to the wheels sometimes.

I agree with others on the disappointment. I thought this was the year especially after we totally dismantled Michigan State. I expected more wrinkles in the offense after Sanford was let go and Ciarrocca returned, but we were equally ground-and-pound this year. I guess it clearly shows how really good Bateman and Tyler Johnson were as college WRs.

As for Fleck's style, does anyone really give a crap about that? I found Kill unbelieveably abrasive and I've seen bowls of tapioca pudding with more personality than Claeys. I can go back through my 60-plus years of Gopher fandom and find something not to like about every coach we've had (except Murray Warmath).
 

Dupreefor3

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But that's the whole point of the discussion. Mason, Kill and Claeys all had 8 or 9-win seasons and went to mid-level bowl games. But there were a lot of fans - including many posting on this board, who said that "wasn't good enough." Fleck was brought in here to "take the program to the next level."

He was supposed to be the guy who would recruit better players and have the Gophers contending for Division titles or Conference championships.

in six years, Fleck has had the one big year in 2019. Everything else has been on the same level as Mason, Kill and Claeys.

and now, we're hearing that, "well, this is as good as the Gophers can be." that is not what a lot of people were saying 6 years ago.
Mason got ten years and it was clearly going in the wrong direction. Kill was no where near the hotseat when he had to step down and Claeys was fired do to the conduct of his players. When were any of those guys near a career .500 mark in Conference play? When did any of them ever win six, let alone seven games, how many of them won a New Year's Day Bowl game vs an SEC team? I'll hang up and listen, but all I am hearing is crickets
 

Some guy

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Mason got ten years and it was clearly going in the wrong direction. Kill was no where near the hotseat when he had to step down and Claeys was fired do to the conduct of his players. When were any of those guys near a career .500 mark in Conference play? When did any of them ever win six, let alone seven games, how many of them won a New Year's Day Bowl game vs an SEC team? I'll hang up and listen, but all I am hearing is crickets
Claeys wasn’t fired for conduct of players
He was fired for his communication with media and admin in the wake of the alleged incident
 

Dupreefor3

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Claeys wasn’t fired for conduct of players
He was fired for his communication with media and admin in the wake of the alleged incident
which stemmed from the conduct of his players. Communication a nice way of saying mutiny as well, point is wasn't for on field performance.
 

Go Gophs

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Too bad that doesn't cover recruiting. This is what will hit the gophers hard in the next few years, the absolute decline we've taken in recruiting, really ever since we went 11-2.

I thought we'd go the other direction after a great season. Not sure why we weren't able to capitalize and there are many on here who will point to Covid, but all teams dealt with that so that isn't a valid excuse.

I pointed this out 2 years ago, the decline recruiting started taking at that time, and was called a star chaser.

We're once again near the bottom and not even mediocre when it comes to recruiting rankings for B1G teams. This was the primary reason for me to get excited when Fleck was hired.
Ranking at least on 247 would say otherwise. I agree with you though, the recruiting hasn't been good here. Ever really. Generally the Gophers fall in that 9-12 range in BT ranks.

I don't know though. Rankings probably don't mean too much with classes being so big. The key is to hit on starters on both sides of the ball.
 

JoeSchmoe

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Claeys wasn’t fired for conduct of players
He was fired for his communication with media and admin in the wake of the alleged incident
He was fired because Coyle didn't hire Claeys and he wanted PJ from the jump. Didn't matter what happened Coyle was going to use anything he could to get rid of Claeys. Would have been easy if Claeys lost, but he had a good year so they had to make the scandal look as bad as possible. Typical with a new AD coming in. Coyle just didn't have the balls to be honest and just say I want my guy.
 


dpodoll68

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Seriously, in 2023 what team would you feel better about than the Gophers in the B1G West?

Did you mean in 2022? In 2023 I could make a case for every team in the Big Ten West (except Northwestern) to win the division. I would seriously feel better about any of those teams (again, except Northwestern) if I were a fan. They are all just as talented as Minnesota, if not more so, and they have the distinct advantage of being led by head coaches who don't actively handcuff their teams and reduce their chances of winning.

This was our year, and we blew it, because we have possibly the most conservative head coach in college football. Go back and look at the non-conference schedule. Remember when we were throwing in those games (and completing long passes) while up by dozens of points? What the hell happened once we hit the Purdue game and beyond? Who the fuck knows, but I know that repeating that strategy in 2023 will have us somewhere in the ballpark of 3-9 to 5-7.
 

dpodoll68

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When were any of those guys near a career .500 mark in Conference play?
Claeys was 6-8 in the Big Ten, and was 5-6 at one point in his one full season.
When did any of them ever win six, let alone seven games
It's more than a little disingenuous to compare number of wins in the Big Ten when the conference didn't consistently have a 9-game schedule until 2016. Fleck has had a 9-game conference season every year at Minnesota.
 

Taji34

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I'm planning to do a full statistical analysis of Fleck and his recent predecessors after the post season finishes so that all the concrete stats are in one place. My gut is the Fleck, while not leaps and bounds better, is still the best coach we have had in modern history and it's better to run with him for a while longer than take the risk of backsliding back to the depths of the last 50-60 years.
 

PMWinSTP

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Few things bother me more than when people start talking about what "real fans" should do. Real fans support the coach, Real fans pretend beating cupcakes is impressive, Real fans stay positive no matter what, etc. etc.

I have been a season ticket holder for nearly 30-years, I still root for the Gophers every week, and I usually make a road game or two every year (I'll be in Madison this Saturday). On the other hand, I'm not a PJ fan, I am not impressed by being 7-4 having not beaten a single team with a winning record, I bet a fair sum against them in the Penn State game, and I am quite down on the direction of the program after this season. Am I not a "real fan"?
You are as real as they come, brother.
 


PMWinSTP

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I agree with you he shouldn't be fired and is a fine coach. Here's my issue with him

GGI made a great point about him on the Iowa Breakdown episode. Time and time again we hear him say "Change your best" and "Failure is growth", yet TIME AND TIME AGAIN he has done nothing to change his mindset/plan. He is constantly being called out for his play to not lose attitude in game management and it constantly back fires against >.500 teams. What has he not learned in his god awful clock and timeout management like you have said.

I would love for a media member to point this out in a presser to see what he would say. It bugs me because he is a very slogan heavy head coach which people make fun of. I on the other hand think they could be used well if he actually believed in what he is saying.
Great post. You have to walk the talk or over time, people stop listening.
 





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