Fleck: “I’m proud of our players fight. We didn’t turn the ball over which is really positive for us…We have a really good football team though.”

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MNVCGUY said:
We lost....so for some it means we will never win again....doesn't matter that we lost to the #1 team in the country and a National Title favorite.

That said....I don't think it is half the board....just the usual suspects who are only happy when they are complaining.
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I'll give that to you. I should probably give less of a damn about what people think but that's not in my nature, particularly with this team.
 

DEGopher said:
Listen, two good coaches playing a game, one has a $35MM roster the other a $3-5MM roster, the out come should be 42 - 3, if not worse.

You want to be competitive with these teams, we need to spend the NIL $ before we can fairly evaluate PJ.

Cal, that’s another story, yeah that was disappointing and all on PJ.
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Long before NIL one coaches team plays in 100,000+ stadium filled to capacity weekly while the other plays in a 50,000 seat stadium that is not.

Quite a budget disparity.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
Should have been 42-3 if not worse? 42-3 was worse than Ohio, Washington, and Texas (who may be nowhere near as good as advertised) played them. Only grambling state had a worse showing than us. Being upset that we lost is unreasonable. Being upset that we looked as bad as we did is fair.
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1st, Texas has a ton more talent than we have, they also spent $35MM on there roster. They just put all the eggs in the Arch Manning basket and he didn’t pan out. Plus the coach is likely to get fired for incompetence since he has a 35MM roster and two losses.

2nd, comparing point spreads is ridiculous, the transitive property doesn’t hold up in sports.

Also, maybe you feel better about a 30 point loss vs a 40 pt loss, but I don’t.
 
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PMWinSTP said:
Exactly where I am at with the game. Still feel 8-4 is very doable, 9-3 with some luck on Gophs side. If Gophs end up 6-6 or 7-5, Fleck's seat needs to be very warm and Coyle should do what Indiana did, hire a successful G-6 coach who will bring his best 10-12 players with him. Right now I would be eyeing Ryan Silverfield. On his way to a third consecutive 10 or more win season at Memphis. I would be looking at Navy's HC as well.
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LOL Fleck isn't going to be on the hot seat if we go 7-5 / 5-4. That's preposterous
 




FanSinceTheFifties said:
Average using what data?
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Average, using what he could have/should have delivered.

I don't like PJ for several reasons, but the primary one is the number of wins he's left on the table. He has consistently underperformed in comparison to the team's capabilities and its players.

2018: Loss at Illinois. A team that won 2 games in the B1G - Rutgers, and us.

2019: Losses against Iowa and Wisconsin. The Iowa game was just a missed opportunity, as he tried so hard not to lose, but he did. Wisconsin was a different story. It was the precursor to last year's Iowa game. We played very hard not to lose in the first half, taking a page out of the Gutekunst playbook by scoring early and then implementing the prevent offense to try to walk away with a 7-0 victory. Like last year vs Iowa, we never came out of the locker room at halftime and got blown off the field. The first year we would have gone to the B1G championship game if we had a better coaching staff - probably could get over this IF it wasn't followed by:

2021: Bowling Green (the 4th and one Episode 1). Illinois, Iowa

2022: Purdue (the 4th and one Episode 2 - failing is learning, but what is failing AND failing to learn, PJ?). Win this game, and we would have gone to the B1G championship game.

2023: Northwestern (we left early to catch our flight, apparently), Illinois (4th and 11 on their own 15 yard line with 1:24 left in the game and the starting QB just knocked out of the game, the backup QB comes in and completes 3 passes for 85 yards and a TD in 34 seconds.....), Purdue (again)

2024: Michigan (yeah, the refs missed a call at the end of the game. We missed the first half. Michigan was wounded, Mason and Kill both beat a wounded Michigan. Fleck should have), Rutgers (to quote Fishbone "U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no allibi")

2025: Cal

Accuse me of over-reacting to one loss if you will. Quibble with any of the losses on my list, but there is a trend. That's twelve losses in six seasons (2017 - year ONE, and 2020 excluded). With another one this year, PJ's averaging two losses to teams the Gophers should have beaten per season, and he still has a chance to add more this season. It cost us at least two trips to the B1G title game, back when that was a thing.

As for Saturday's game, what happened was expected, to an extent, and while disappointing, I didn't have a huge problem overall (although I agree recruiting needs to improve. We consistently rank in the lower half of the B1G every year. We don't have to spend to compete against the ridiculousness of schools like tOSU, Oregon, and others that spend at very high levels to get into the top half of the conference. While acknowledging the pain of the people who refuse to see PJ's flaws and deny the problem, it is a fixable problem - to an extent - and needs to be upgraded at signing time, not in June.)

We came out and swung for the fences. We all knew it was a long shot. And I loved the 4th-and-one call against tOSU, for the pointed references above. We had to take chances to win this game (as opposed to taking unnecessary risks against teams we should have easily beaten). So we went for it. I do disagree, however, that the best approach is to come up with a play for 4th-and-one on our side of the 50 against the top-ranked defense in the country (not statistical darlings as long as you don't look too deeply at the details). And line up to and then take the snap in the shotgun.....wait, what?)

Even when being less predictable, the coaching errors are brutal and, dare I say, thoughtless. And contribute to inexplicable losses.

At least we fired the Offensive Coordinator for the stupid call at he goal line with time running out against Michigan in 2015. (NOTE: Not advocating firing Harbaugh because you know he'd be replaced by a cheaper, less effective version of the same thing).
 
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caliGopher said:
Average, using what he could have/should have delivered.

I don't like PJ for several reasons, but the primary one is the number of wins he's left on the table. He has consistently underperformed in comparison to the team's capabilities and its players.

2018: Loss at Illinois. A team that won 2 games in the B1G - Rutgers, and us.

2019: Losses against Iowa and Wisconsin. The Iowa game was just a missed opportunity, as he tried so hard not to lose, but he did. Wisconsin was a different story. It was the precursor to last year's Iowa game. We played very hard not to lose in the first half, taking a page out of the Gutekunst playbook by scoring early and then implementing the prevent offense to try to walk away with a 7-0 victory. Like last year vs Iowa, we never came out of the locker room at halftime and got blown off the field. The first year we would have gone to the B1G championship game if we had a better coaching staff - probably could get over this IF it wasn't followed by:

2021: Bowling Green (the 4th and one Episode 1). Illinois, Iowa

2022: Purdue (the 4th and one Episode 2 - failing is learning, but what is failing AND failing to learn, PJ?). Win this game, and we would have gone to the B1G championship game.

2023: Northwestern (we left early to catch our flight, apparently), Illinois (4th and 11 on their own 15 yard line with 1:24 left in the game and the starting QB just knocked out of the game, the backup QB comes in and completes 3 passes for 85 yards and a TD in 34 seconds.....), Purdue (again)

2024: Michigan (yeah, the refs missed a call at the end of the game. We missed the first half. Michigan was wounded, Mason and Kill both beat a wounded Michigan. Fleck should have), Rutgers (to quote Fishbone "U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no allibi")

2025: Cal

Accuse me of over-reacting to one loss if you will. Quibble with any of the losses on my list, but there is a trend. That's eleven losses in six seasons (2017 - year ONE, and 2020 excluded). With another one this year, PJ's averaging 1.7 losses to teams the Gophers should have beaten per season, and he still has a chance to add more this season. It cost us at least two trips to the B1G title game, back when that was a thing.

As for Saturday's game, what happened was expected, to an extent, and while disappointing, I didn't have a huge problem overall (although I agree recruiting needs to improve. We consistently rank in the lower half of the B1G every year. We don't have to spend to compete against the ridiculousness of schools like tOSU, Oregon, and others that spend at very high levels to get into the top half of the conference. While acknowledging the pain of the people who refuse to see PJ's flaws and deny the problem, it is a fixable problem - to an extent - and needs to be upgraded at signing time, not in June.)

We came out and swung for the fences. We all knew it was a long shot. And I loved the 4th-and-one call against tOSU, for the pointed references above. We had to take chances to win this game (as opposed to taking unnecessary risks against teams we should have easily beaten). So we went for it. I do disagree, however, that the best approach is to come up with a play for 4th-and-one on our side of the 50 against the top-ranked defense in the country (not statistical darlings as long as you don't look too deeply at the details). And line up to and then take the snap in the shotgun.....wait, what?)

Even when being less predictable, the coaching errors are brutal and, dare I say, thoughtless. And contribute to inexplicable losses.

At least we fired the Offensive Coordinator for the stupid call at he goal line with time running out against Michigan in 2015. (NOTE: Not advocating firing Harbaugh because you know he'd be replaced by a cheaper, less effective version of the same thing).
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We weren’t even favored in several of those you listed as should’ve won.
 

mngg11 said:
So you'll take 63-3 with our qb having numerous picks and possibly a concussion because "gosh darn it we went down swinging?" We don't need to put any of our players at unnecessary risk and prevent them from playing in the games that matter and we can win (Iowa/Wisconsin/Nebraska) trying to prove a point against an all world team we don't belong on the field with, particularly this year. The #1 most important thing for the team this season is to develop Drake and build his confidence for seasons to come. Him getting flayed by OSU in the Shoe with a team lacking the talent to hold up doesn't do that and risks a regression.
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Why not forfeit in fact, if not dejure?
 

btowngopher said:
We weren’t even favored in several of those you listed as should’ve won.
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The Betting Lines and Rankings as appropriate:

2018 vs. Illinois - Gophers -9.5
2019 vs. Iowa - Gophers +3 - Minnesota AP Rank 7, Iowa AP rank 23
2019 vs. Wisconsin - Gophers +3 - Minnesota AP Rank 9, Wisconsin 13
2021 vs. Bowling Green - Gophers -30.5
2021 vs. Illinois - Gophers -14.5
2021 vs. Iowa - Gophers +4 - Iowa AP Rank 19
2022 vs. Purdue - Gophers -9.5
2023 vs. Northwestern - Gophers -11.5
2023 vs. Illinois - Gophers -2.5
2023 vs. Purdue - Gophers -2.0
2024 vs. Michigan - Gophers +10.5
2024 vs. Rutgers - Gophers -6.5
2025 vs. Cal - Gophers -2.5

We were favored on the betting line on 9 of the 13 games.

The 2019 games against WI and IA were essentially the home team's advantage. We were ranked higher than both of them. Rivalry games are a different breed, even when it comes to the odds.

In the 2021 game against Iowa, they were ranked at 19, and we were not ranked. Again, Rivalry game, small line. Had the chance to and should have won.

The 2024 game against Michigan is the only one you're quibbling about, where the line was decidedly against us. Anyone who watched that game knows that if the PJ has the team ready to play football at the kick-off in at least one of the three phases of the game, we win that game. Not a game I expected to win going in, but absolutely one we should have won, having watched it unfold and seen what we were capable of when we actually tried.

So, like I said. Quibble with anything you'd like, but 9 out of 13 were we favored, and we could have and should have beaten Iowa more than once in 8 years.

Based on previous posts by you on betting lines, I suspect you know more than I do on the betting lines, but there is a lot more to the betting line than who sportsbooks think will win, it's not always about who they think will win, it's about making sure they make money.
 

caliGopher said:
Average, using what he could have/should have delivered.

I don't like PJ for several reasons, but the primary one is the number of wins he's left on the table. He has consistently underperformed in comparison to the team's capabilities and its players.

2018: Loss at Illinois. A team that won 2 games in the B1G - Rutgers, and us.

2019: Losses against Iowa and Wisconsin. The Iowa game was just a missed opportunity, as he tried so hard not to lose, but he did. Wisconsin was a different story. It was the precursor to last year's Iowa game. We played very hard not to lose in the first half, taking a page out of the Gutekunst playbook by scoring early and then implementing the prevent offense to try to walk away with a 7-0 victory. Like last year vs Iowa, we never came out of the locker room at halftime and got blown off the field. The first year we would have gone to the B1G championship game if we had a better coaching staff - probably could get over this IF it wasn't followed by:

2021: Bowling Green (the 4th and one Episode 1). Illinois, Iowa

2022: Purdue (the 4th and one Episode 2 - failing is learning, but what is failing AND failing to learn, PJ?). Win this game, and we would have gone to the B1G championship game.

2023: Northwestern (we left early to catch our flight, apparently), Illinois (4th and 11 on their own 15 yard line with 1:24 left in the game and the starting QB just knocked out of the game, the backup QB comes in and completes 3 passes for 85 yards and a TD in 34 seconds.....), Purdue (again)

2024: Michigan (yeah, the refs missed a call at the end of the game. We missed the first half. Michigan was wounded, Mason and Kill both beat a wounded Michigan. Fleck should have), Rutgers (to quote Fishbone "U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no allibi")

2025: Cal

Accuse me of over-reacting to one loss if you will. Quibble with any of the losses on my list, but there is a trend. That's twelve losses in six seasons (2017 - year ONE, and 2020 excluded). With another one this year, PJ's averaging two losses to teams the Gophers should have beaten per season, and he still has a chance to add more this season. It cost us at least two trips to the B1G title game, back when that was a thing.

As for Saturday's game, what happened was expected, to an extent, and while disappointing, I didn't have a huge problem overall (although I agree recruiting needs to improve. We consistently rank in the lower half of the B1G every year. We don't have to spend to compete against the ridiculousness of schools like tOSU, Oregon, and others that spend at very high levels to get into the top half of the conference. While acknowledging the pain of the people who refuse to see PJ's flaws and deny the problem, it is a fixable problem - to an extent - and needs to be upgraded at signing time, not in June.)

We came out and swung for the fences. We all knew it was a long shot. And I loved the 4th-and-one call against tOSU, for the pointed references above. We had to take chances to win this game (as opposed to taking unnecessary risks against teams we should have easily beaten). So we went for it. I do disagree, however, that the best approach is to come up with a play for 4th-and-one on our side of the 50 against the top-ranked defense in the country (not statistical darlings as long as you don't look too deeply at the details). And line up to and then take the snap in the shotgun.....wait, what?)

Even when being less predictable, the coaching errors are brutal and, dare I say, thoughtless. And contribute to inexplicable losses.

At least we fired the Offensive Coordinator for the stupid call at he goal line with time running out against Michigan in 2015. (NOTE: Not advocating firing Harbaugh because you know he'd be replaced by a cheaper, less effective version of the same thing).
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Admirable recounting.
 



caliGopher said:
The Betting Lines and Rankings as appropriate:

2018 vs. Illinois - Gophers -9.5
2019 vs. Iowa - Gophers +3 - Minnesota AP Rank 7, Iowa AP rank 23
2019 vs. Wisconsin - Gophers +3 - Minnesota AP Rank 9, Wisconsin 13
2021 vs. Bowling Green - Gophers -30.5
2021 vs. Illinois - Gophers -14.5
2021 vs. Iowa - Gophers +4 - Iowa AP Rank 19
2022 vs. Purdue - Gophers -9.5
2023 vs. Northwestern - Gophers -11.5
2023 vs. Illinois - Gophers -2.5
2023 vs. Purdue - Gophers -2.0
2024 vs. Michigan - Gophers +10.5
2024 vs. Rutgers - Gophers -6.5
2025 vs. Cal - Gophers -2.5

We were favored on the betting line on 9 of the 13 games.

The 2019 games against WI and IA were essentially the home team's advantage. We were ranked higher than both of them. Rivalry games are a different breed, even when it comes to the odds.

In the 2021 game against Iowa, they were ranked at 19, and we were not ranked. Again, Rivalry game, small line. Had the chance to and should have won.

The 2024 game against Michigan is the only one you're quibbling about, where the line was decidedly against us. Anyone who watched that game knows that if the PJ has the team ready to play football at the kick-off in at least one of the three phases of the game, we win that game. Not a game I expected to win going in, but absolutely one we should have won, having watched it unfold and seen what we were capable of when we actually tried.

So, like I said. Quibble with anything you'd like, but 9 out of 13 were we favored, and we could have and should have beaten Iowa more than once in 8 years.

Based on previous posts by you on betting lines, I suspect you know more than I do on the betting lines, but there is a lot more to the betting line than who sportsbooks think will win, it's not always about who they think will win, it's about making sure they make money.
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Could’ve is different than should’ve. You can’t say he should’ve pulled out a win every time he goes up against a team of similar talent and capabilities.
 

btowngopher said:
Could’ve is different than should’ve. You can’t say he should’ve pulled out a win every time he goes up against a team of similar talent and capabilities.
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Yeah....I mean it is almost like those other teams have D1 athletes and are trying to win as well.

There have been and will continue to be frustrating loses under Fleck....he has also had more success here then any coach in a long long time and the program is on a very solid footing.

In the list Cali provided there were a couple of bad losses but the majority of those games would essentially be considered tossups in terms of the line.

You could do this same activity with pretty much any coach in the country and find examples of frustrating/bad losses. It isn't unique to Fleck and Minnesota.
 
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btowngopher said:
Could’ve is different than should’ve. You can’t say he should’ve pulled out a win every time he goes up against a team of similar talent and capabilities.
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You're right.

And I didn't say that the only acceptable answer is that Fleck would have won all 13 of these games, even though I think he could have (a few are completely inexcusable). Every team loses games that defy explanation, especially in College Football.

I did say he could have and should have beaten Iowa more than once in 8 years. I did not say he should never have lost a game to Iowa.

I am saying the consistency of these results can't be overlooked when evaluating PJ Fleck's tenure at Minnesota.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Yeah....I mean it is almost like those other teams have D1 athletes and are trying to win as well.

There have been and will continue to be frustrating loses under Fleck....he has also had more success here then any coach in a long long time and the program is on a very solid footing.

In the list Cali provided there were a couple of bad losses but the majority of those games would essentially be considered tossups in terms of the line.

The thing posters like Cali don't want to admit is that you could do this same activity with pretty much any coach in the country and find examples of frustrating/bad losses. It isn't unique to Fleck and Minnesota.
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All teams have bad losses. Never said they didn't. I know that just from my time as a fan of the Gophers. I've seen a lot of them.

A couple of bad losses? You're not being honest if you look at that list and only see a couple of bad losses. The trio from 2023 is more than a couple by themselves. Two of those were lost in excruciating ways. I'd argue that 7 of the 13 losses are bad losses, four missed opportunities that we had the chance to take advantage of and failed, and two that sucked, but it happens, particularly on the road (although Cal getting blasted by SDSU the following week still has me leaning towards that was just a bad loss).

The Iowa, Wisconsin, and Michigan games were the ones we need to win more of if we're truly taking the next step. I don't consider them bad losses, but they are games a coach who would be taking us to the next level would have figured out how to win at least two of them. But maybe James Franklin Lite is the best we can hope for.
 

caliGopher said:
All teams have bad losses. Never said they didn't. I know that just from my time as a fan of the Gophers. I've seen a lot of them.

A couple of bad losses? You're not being honest if you look at that list and only see a couple of bad losses. The trio from 2023 is more than a couple by themselves. Two of those were lost in excruciating ways. I'd argue that 7 of the 13 losses are bad losses, four missed opportunities that we had the chance to take advantage of and failed, and two that sucked, but it happens, particularly on the road (although Cal getting blasted by SDSU the following week still has me leaning towards that was just a bad loss).

The Iowa, Wisconsin, and Michigan games were the ones we need to win more of if we're truly taking the next step. I don't consider them bad losses, but they are games a coach who would be taking us to the next level would have figured out how to win at least two of them. But maybe James Franklin Lite is the best we can hope for.
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Going to be totally honest with you....I don't dwell on loses the way some fans do so in terms of bad loses there is Bowling Green and beyond that the rest kind of just blur together.

I would prefer to spend time remembering the wins and enjoying the current season for whatever it ends up being as opposed to dwelling on the past and the would've, could've, should've moments.

As for whether or not Fleck is the best we can expect/hope for here.....maybe there is a coach out there that can propel us to the next level but that has proven to be a very difficult task in the modern era of college football. So we could move on from Fleck but the odds of going backwards are probably higher then the odds of going forward. I'm good with the current state of the program....in the end this is just entertainment.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Going to be totally honest with you....I don't dwell on loses the way some fans do so in terms of bad loses there is Bowling Green and beyond that the rest kind of just blur together.

I would prefer to spend time remembering the wins and enjoying the current season for whatever it ends up being as opposed to dwelling on the past and the would've, could've, should've moments.

As for whether or not Fleck is the best we can expect/hope for here.....maybe there is a coach out there that can propel us to the next level but that has proven to be a very difficult task in the modern era of college football. So we could move on from Fleck but the odds of going backwards are probably higher then the odds of going forward. I'm good with the current state of the program....in the end this is just entertainment.
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Not advocating getting rid of Fleck. I don't think that's happening, regardless of what I think. Even if it was the right thing for us right now, I'm not sure we can trust our incompetent AD to make a hire that will take the next step, even if the Admin wanted that to happen (which they don't).

My thing is more a reaction to the false narrative that we're light years ahead of where Mason got us, when we're only marginally better (which, to your point, and what I agree with, going away from Fleck is more likely to send us on another 10-15+ year cycle to work our way back up to where we are right now).

Fleck is a solid coach, doing average work. He is more likely to lose games we shouldn't than win ones we shouldn't. I'd probably enjoy it more if we played a brand of football that doesn't put me to sleep (last year was nice), and PJ's most polished trait, the drumbeat of self-promotion, was more in line with his results, or lack thereof.

He's done some good things, and one could argue that he's the best coach we've had in a long time, but that isn't exactly a high bar. A little more attention and focus on his core job responsibility - consistently preparing the team to be ready to play football and win games (that is the goal) would also go a long way.
 

He might as well as said “we had a good drive and kicked a Fg. The rest of the game we had no clue. Thankfully, we escaped intact.” The definition of a -39 point win in Fleck talk. Row the boat over the falls.
 

I know I'm probably going to get grilled for this take and will be the first to admit that I need to donate more to the NIL fund, but I've become more and more apathetic to the current regime. Going into this game, they knew of the massive talent imbalance between the two schools, so you literally have nothing to lose. The constant turtle effort he coaches with anytime he's against the ropes is such a loser mantality. He's essentially telling his team and future recruits, that I know we don't have the goods to compete with a team at the tOSU level, but I'm going to be uber conservative to keep the score closer than it looks.

I know I'm beating a dead horse when it comes to his coaching style, but why don't we demand more from a public employee that's making in my opinion way too much money. The week before the Buckeye game, he was singing Drake's praises about finally having a QB that he can let be agressive and go win a game. I know Drake is only a RS Freshman, but we literally had nothing to lose. After the first drive resulted in 3 pts, they made adjustments on defense but Fleck and Harbaugh didn't do anything to try and get creative or exploit their defensive adjustments. Instead it's RUTM on first down and the weakest play call on a 4th and 1 with 8 guys stacked in the box. Even if we were to vastly expand our NIL funds and start brining in higher caliber players, I still don't think Fleck would adjust his coaching style. Going into his 8th season with the Gophers and publically stating that this is his most talented and deepest team since he's been here, should result in a better outcome than what we endured on Saturday. It remains to be seen what the Buckeyes do through the remainder of the season, as I think Day is a very overated coach but that was a total turtle effort on Saturday and it was so predictable.

It remains to be seen how Danny Collins' defense preforms through the remainder of the season, but he looked like a deer in headlights in the last 3 games. I was truly hoping Fleck would have taken a risk to retain Delattiboudere, as he sure as hell couldn't do any worse. I know it's just entertainment and I shouldn't be too displeased, but at least provide us with a glimmer of hope every once in a while. With the money being pumped in from the BIG media deal, there should be higher expectations for this team and we should be demmanding more from Fleck. Maybe this is a product of Coyle, but I like the recent basketball hires for both men & women's teams, so maybe it's a 50/50 byproduct. Once again, I know I'm in the minority with my Fleck take, but he's just not moving the needle for me any longer and I wouldn't mind seeing an overhaul and regime change.
 

caliGopher said:
You're right.

And I didn't say that the only acceptable answer is that Fleck would have won all 13 of these games, even though I think he could have (a few are completely inexcusable). Every team loses games that defy explanation, especially in College Football.

I did say he could have and should have beaten Iowa more than once in 8 years. I did not say he should never have lost a game to Iowa.

I am saying the consistency of these results can't be overlooked when evaluating PJ Fleck's tenure at Minnesota.
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I think what most of us (yourself included I assume) want to see as the next step is the season every now and then where these are avoided. That’s the next step to becoming on the level of an Iowa or even better. 2019 was the closest we’ve seen, so that’s like once in a 10 year span. Once again in the next 10 years wouldn’t be the worst thing, but I think we’d all like to see it become more frequent than that.
 

GlobalGopher11 said:
I know I'm probably going to get grilled for this take and will be the first to admit that I need to donate more to the NIL fund, but I've become more and more apathetic to the current regime. Going into this game, they knew of the massive talent imbalance between the two schools, so you literally have nothing to lose. The constant turtle effort he coaches with anytime he's against the ropes is such a loser mantality. He's essentially telling his team and future recruits, that I know we don't have the goods to compete with a team at the tOSU level, but I'm going to be uber conservative to keep the score closer than it looks.

I know I'm beating a dead horse when it comes to his coaching style, but why don't we demand more from a public employee that's making in my opinion way too much money. The week before the Buckeye game, he was singing Drake's praises about finally having a QB that he can let be agressive and go win a game. I know Drake is only a RS Freshman, but we literally had nothing to lose. After the first drive resulted in 3 pts, they made adjustments on defense but Fleck and Harbaugh didn't do anything to try and get creative or exploit their defensive adjustments. Instead it's RUTM on first down and the weakest play call on a 4th and 1 with 8 guys stacked in the box. Even if we were to vastly expand our NIL funds and start brining in higher caliber players, I still don't think Fleck would adjust his coaching style. Going into his 8th season with the Gophers and publically stating that this is his most talented and deepest team since he's been here, should result in a better outcome than what we endured on Saturday. It remains to be seen what the Buckeyes do through the remainder of the season, as I think Day is a very overated coach but that was a total turtle effort on Saturday and it was so predictable.

It remains to be seen how Danny Collins' defense preforms through the remainder of the season, but he looked like a deer in headlights in the last 3 games. I was truly hoping Fleck would have taken a risk to retain Delattiboudere, as he sure as hell couldn't do any worse. I know it's just entertainment and I shouldn't be too displeased, but at least provide us with a glimmer of hope every once in a while. With the money being pumped in from the BIG media deal, there should be higher expectations for this team and we should be demmanding more from Fleck. Maybe this is a product of Coyle, but I like the recent basketball hires for both men & women's teams, so maybe it's a 50/50 byproduct. Once again, I know I'm in the minority with my Fleck take, but he's just not moving the needle for me any longer and I wouldn't mind seeing an overhaul and regime change.
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I agree with your take except that Ryan Day is probably not overrated with a 88% winning record at OSU- his only head coaching job. He passed Knute Rockne this year.
 

caliGopher said:
Average, using what he could have/should have delivered.

I don't like PJ for several reasons, but the primary one is the number of wins he's left on the table. He has consistently underperformed in comparison to the team's capabilities and its players.

2018: Loss at Illinois. A team that won 2 games in the B1G - Rutgers, and us.

2019: Losses against Iowa and Wisconsin. The Iowa game was just a missed opportunity, as he tried so hard not to lose, but he did. Wisconsin was a different story. It was the precursor to last year's Iowa game. We played very hard not to lose in the first half, taking a page out of the Gutekunst playbook by scoring early and then implementing the prevent offense to try to walk away with a 7-0 victory. Like last year vs Iowa, we never came out of the locker room at halftime and got blown off the field. The first year we would have gone to the B1G championship game if we had a better coaching staff - probably could get over this IF it wasn't followed by:

2021: Bowling Green (the 4th and one Episode 1). Illinois, Iowa

2022: Purdue (the 4th and one Episode 2 - failing is learning, but what is failing AND failing to learn, PJ?). Win this game, and we would have gone to the B1G championship game.

2023: Northwestern (we left early to catch our flight, apparently), Illinois (4th and 11 on their own 15 yard line with 1:24 left in the game and the starting QB just knocked out of the game, the backup QB comes in and completes 3 passes for 85 yards and a TD in 34 seconds.....), Purdue (again)

2024: Michigan (yeah, the refs missed a call at the end of the game. We missed the first half. Michigan was wounded, Mason and Kill both beat a wounded Michigan. Fleck should have), Rutgers (to quote Fishbone "U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no allibi")

2025: Cal

Accuse me of over-reacting to one loss if you will. Quibble with any of the losses on my list, but there is a trend. That's twelve losses in six seasons (2017 - year ONE, and 2020 excluded). With another one this year, PJ's averaging two losses to teams the Gophers should have beaten per season, and he still has a chance to add more this season. It cost us at least two trips to the B1G title game, back when that was a thing.

As for Saturday's game, what happened was expected, to an extent, and while disappointing, I didn't have a huge problem overall (although I agree recruiting needs to improve. We consistently rank in the lower half of the B1G every year. We don't have to spend to compete against the ridiculousness of schools like tOSU, Oregon, and others that spend at very high levels to get into the top half of the conference. While acknowledging the pain of the people who refuse to see PJ's flaws and deny the problem, it is a fixable problem - to an extent - and needs to be upgraded at signing time, not in June.)

We came out and swung for the fences. We all knew it was a long shot. And I loved the 4th-and-one call against tOSU, for the pointed references above. We had to take chances to win this game (as opposed to taking unnecessary risks against teams we should have easily beaten). So we went for it. I do disagree, however, that the best approach is to come up with a play for 4th-and-one on our side of the 50 against the top-ranked defense in the country (not statistical darlings as long as you don't look too deeply at the details). And line up to and then take the snap in the shotgun.....wait, what?)

Even when being less predictable, the coaching errors are brutal and, dare I say, thoughtless. And contribute to inexplicable losses.

At least we fired the Offensive Coordinator for the stupid call at he goal line with time running out against Michigan in 2015. (NOTE: Not advocating firing Harbaugh because you know he'd be replaced by a cheaper, less effective version of the same thing).
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Good summary.
 

mngg11 said:
So you'll take 63-3 with our qb having numerous picks and possibly a concussion because "gosh darn it we went down swinging?" We don't need to put any of our players at unnecessary risk and prevent them from playing in the games that matter and we can win (Iowa/Wisconsin/Nebraska) trying to prove a point against an all world team we don't belong on the field with, particularly this year. The #1 most important thing for the team this season is to develop Drake and build his confidence for seasons to come. Him getting flayed by OSU in the Shoe with a team lacking the talent to hold up doesn't do that and risks a regression.
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Shouldn't even take the field in that case.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
"We didn’t turn the ball over which is really positive for us."

Who needs turnovers when you score touchdowns on 6 of your 9 possessions (not counting the final one with one play) and limit your opponent to 162 yards?
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Did I hallucinate the Pick Six in this game because that is a turnover.
 



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