ESPN: Grand Valley State suspends OC Morris Berger for wanting meal with Adolf Hitler

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mjfelton15 said:
“He had every right to say what he did. And the University had every right to suspend him for it. He is a public figure who publicly made a statement praising the leadership abilities of the man responsible for the extermination of millions of Jews.”
-MNVCGUY
Not arguing with myself. The jump into talking about how he was praising someone that killed millions of Jews was made
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He did praise a man who did those things. That's not up for debate.
 


MNVCGUY said:
He could have chosen literally anyone and he elected to go with one of the most hated men in history. And the reason he went with him was not because he wanted to know how he could commit such atrocities but rather because he was impressed by his leadership ability.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one because I am not shocked one bit he was suspended and I am actually a little surprised he wasn't just flat out fired. You can feel people are over reacting but the simple reality is that if you bring up Hitler in any sort of positive light, it is not going to go over well with the vast majority of people.

Referring to someone like Hitler as a great leader, no matter how much you try to qualify it first, is just a bad idea.
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I don’t agree with the modern way of handling these situations involving someone making a bad comment in public. I don’t like the probation, suspending, or firing of someone for a comment they made. Messing with someone’s livelihood, and ability to provide for their family, over a comment doesn’t really help anything.
I guess I’m in a league of my own on this one, I tend to always side with someone’s ability to say what they want to. I never really think the consequences match the comment made. We live in an outrage culture though where we burn people at the stake for what they say.
 

I’d eat lunch with Hitler but only if I was allowed to carry my 9mm. After lunch there would be a few less bullets in the magazine.
 





FWIW I always thought Nick Saban ran kind of a dictatorship at Alabama.
 




BleedGopher said:
"It was obviously very sad and he had bad motives, but the way he was able to lead was second-to-none. How he rallied a group and a following, I want to know how he did that. Bad intentions of course, but you can't deny he wasn't a great leader."
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Calling his leadership "second-to-none" and saying "you can't deny he wasn't (was?) a great leader" sounds like praise of Hitler. Hard to separate his leadership ability from his leadership methods. If he'd just said he'd like to dine with Hitler to see if he could determine what made that crazy son of a bitch tick, he probably would have been okay, but the quote suggests admiration and makes it appear that he'd like to see if he could glean any motivational tips from Hitler. That goes a bit too far for most people.
 

Hitler rallied the German people with a toxic brew of nationalism that included making enemies of people who had been German citizens for decades, fought for Germany in their wars, were their educators,scientists and physicians and were also Jews.
The coach is a coach in an intellectual backwater, probably has not met a Jew in his lifetime and spends his time with people who are just as limited.
He deserves to be suspended as an example to other members of that ricky dink school that there is a big world out there and if you represent the school you are responsible for what you say as representing the school. He should have kept his remarks to bar time.
The temporary MN hero coach Lou Holtz came to MN as a refugee and pariah because he wrote an endorsement on USC stationery endorsing a rabid racist for the US Senate and was fired.
 


Leadership is not simply the process of bringing people from one place to another (whether a physical location or a philosophical one), the end results matter and the motivations matter perhaps more than anything. Hitler was able to muster tremendous support but at the cost of a nations' morals and humanity, his motivations and goals were corrupt and therefore his leadership was also corrupt. He was not a great leader, he led his people into a terrible place that cost them tremendously.
 



#2Gopher said:
You better go back to school.
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Praising leadership skills of someone sounds like a white supremacist? Not sure what I need to go back to school for. I’m pretty aware of the history of Hitler
 

Gophers1992 said:
He praised his leadership skills that enabled those things to happen. If Hitler is your idea of a good leader, I wouldn't want you as my OC.
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I’m pretty sure I made my stance clear earlier stating that I wouldn’t have said what the coach decided to say. If you’re drawing your own conclusion somehow that I’m pro-Hitler, you can go fuck yourself
 


mjfelton15 said:
I don’t agree with the modern way of handling these situations involving someone making a bad comment in public. I don’t like the probation, suspending, or firing of someone for a comment they made. Messing with someone’s livelihood, and ability to provide for their family, over a comment doesn’t really help anything.
I guess I’m in a league of my own on this one, I tend to always side with someone’s ability to say what they want to. I never really think the consequences match the comment made. We live in an outrage culture though where we burn people at the stake for what they say.
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They're representatives of the school.

If they are dumb enough to make that comment I think there is plenty of reason to not want them in that position further on.
 

Gophers1992 said:
He praised his leadership skills that enabled those things to happen. If Hitler is your idea of a good leader, I wouldn't want you as my OC.
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What he used his leadership skills for is not what the coach was praising. If he was praising the killing of millions of Jews, I think you’d have heard those words come out of his mouth. If I said I admire Osama Bin Laden’s ability to hide, would you guys take that as me being pro-Bin Laden? Or could it possibly be that I wish I had his hiding skills when I used to play hide and seek as a kid?
 

@MJ, do you by any chance own a business? I’d love to see your reaction if one of your employees -particularly in his capacity as a rep of your company - said what this guy said.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
They're representatives of the school.

If they are dumb enough to make that comment I think there is plenty of reason to not want them in that position further on.
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Was he hired to be a school representative, or a coach? his ability to coach well doesn’t matter as much as his ability to interview, even if he’s employed as a coach. Got it.
 

SPEGOPHER said:
@MJ, do you by any chance own a business? I’d love to see your reaction if one of your employees -particularly in his capacity as a rep of your company - said what this guy said.
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I don’t own a business. If I did, I wouldn’t give a punishment that didn’t fit the issue. I believe people misspeak, or poorly phrase a point they’re trying to make, far too often for it to be worth suspension and/or firing. People make mistakes, and if we were to suspend/fire everyone for the dumb/inappropriate comments they make, the unemployment numbers would be outrageous.
 

mjfelton15 said:
What he used his leadership skills for is not what the coach was praising. If he was praising the killing of millions of Jews, I think you’d have heard those words come out of his mouth. If I said I admire Osama Bin Laden’s ability to hide, would you guys take that as me being pro-Bin Laden? Or could it possibly be that I wish I had his hiding skills when I used to play hide and seek as a kid?
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Hop off the backhoe and maybe switch to a shovel.
 

I don’t own a business. If I did, I wouldn’t give a punishment that didn’t fit the issue. I believe people misspeak, or poorly phrase a point they’re trying to make, far too often for it to be worth suspension and/or firing. People make mistakes, and if we were to suspend/fire everyone for the dumb/inappropriate comments they make, the unemployment numbers would be outrageous.

I have a feeling you’d feel a lot differently if you got tons of negative publicity and started losing $$ because of it (to say nothing of employing someone with such a lack of judgment). Regardless, there is a spectrum of stupidity/inappropriateness, and this is about as far right on that spectrum as Fascism. Perhaps not all comments are suspendible, but this one certainly is.[/QUOTE]
 

mjfelton15 said:
I wouldn’t speak of him positively, but I get what he was saying. He said that Hitler’s ability to rally people was impressive. Okay, and that deserves being fired?
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Yes!!! All day everyday and twice on Sunday! He has the right to say whatever he wants. He also has the right to get canned. He knew he was wrong and continued anyway.
 


mjfelton15 said:
Praising leadership skills of someone sounds like a white supremacist? Not sure what I need to go back to school for. I’m pretty aware of the history of Hitler
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From your comments I doubt it. You're probably a white supremacist yourself and don't want to admit it on this board.
 

#2Gopher said:
From your comments I doubt it. You're probably a white supremacist yourself and don't want to admit it on this board.
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No I’ve done quite a bit of research on Hitler. Not a white supremacist. Don’t throw around labels that you can’t support.
 


mjfelton15 said:
Was he hired to be a school representative, or a coach? his ability to coach well doesn’t matter as much as his ability to interview, even if he’s employed as a coach. Got it.
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If you're a coach and you don't think you're representing the school giving an interview ... also probabbly a good reason not to have the job.
 

STPGopher said:
Yes!!! All day everyday and twice on Sunday! He has the right to say whatever he wants. He also has the right to get canned. He knew he was wrong and continued anyway.
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In his direct quote, he acknowledged that Hitler was a bad person and also did not say he supported Hitler’s actions. He pointed only to his leadership. That in itself is not something worth suspending someone over or firing them for. You are solidly in the camp of overdramatic and over reacting.
 

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