ESPN: Grand Valley State suspends OC Morris Berger for wanting meal with Adolf Hitler

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mjfelton15 said:
I defend people’s ability to speak their mind. Yep. I’m a person, not a thing.
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Hold up. Didn’t you once suggest that those that want to be negative toward the Gophers post on a different board and leave GH to all positive posts? That doesn’t seem in support of free speech at all.
 

Gotta love old white people telling minorities that they're overreacting to the adoration/normalization of people who called for and carried out the extermination of human beings because of the color of their skin/religion/sexuality.

Wanting to sit down and pick the brain of a man who ordered the extermination of any human who didn't look like him and trying to figure out what he can take away from that meeting and pass that on to his student athletes is beyond bizarre.
 

The article is borderline humorous - of course the guy should know he can’t say something like that without a huge amount of exposition of what he meant because of, well, the response right here in this thread.

The guy is going to be hung out to dry for saying something so easily taken out of context. It’s likely he meant Hitler‘s rhetorical style, messaging, ability to organize and NOT the megalomania, homicidal prejudice and pogroms, top down authoritarianism, and poor military decisions that resulted in the direct and indirect deaths of millions of combatants and non combatants.

Sure it’s possible he has a hood in his closet or a copy of Mein Kampf on his bed stand but considering his chosen line of work I’d say that’s unlikely (but who knows). It seems like he needs a lot of sensitivity training...and maybe the awareness to choose otherhistorical leaders next time. Maybe Jesus Christ, Ghandi, Mother Teresa.

MJ, I get what you’re saying but there is a very large contingent of people just waiting to rip on anyone they deem to be a closet racist, bigot, misogynist for saying something taken out of context or seen as less than sensitive. The coach said something that’s not going to play well even if he is simply fascinated by historical figures. Hitler of course...worst of the worst historical figures. Strange pick.
 

Can we call Genghis Khan or Alexander the Great brilliant tacticians? What about Napoleon?
 

Dinkytown Don said:
Gotta love old white people telling minorities that they're overreacting to the adoration/normalization of people who called for and carried out the extermination of human beings because of the color of their skin/religion/sexuality.

Wanting to sit down and pick the brain of a man who ordered the extermination of any human who didn't look like him and trying to figure out what he can take away from that meeting and pass that on to his student athletes is beyond bizarre.
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Nobody normalized or adored anyone, LOL!!! No one said that there was an overreaction to the hatred of Hitler. You're just making this goofy stuff up. Also, the odd part about it is that he exterminated the people who looked kind of like him.

Back to the topic at hand, there are completely irredeemable/awful people in the world who are fascinating. I don't know why we pretend that isn't the case.
 


Dinkytown Don said:
Gotta love old white people telling minorities that they're overreacting to the adoration/normalization of people who called for and carried out the extermination of human beings because of the color of their skin/religion/sexuality.

Wanting to sit down and pick the brain of a man who ordered the extermination of any human who didn't look like him and trying to figure out what he can take away from that meeting and pass that on to his student athletes is beyond bizarre.
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So you choose to post a racist statement to object to a racist statement? Genius.

You mate decidedly no better and are on no better a moral plane. Genius.
 
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Dinkytown Don said:
Gotta love old white people telling minorities that they're overreacting to the adoration/normalization of people who called for and carried out the extermination of human beings because of the color of their skin/religion/sexuality.

Wanting to sit down and pick the brain of a man who ordered the extermination of any human who didn't look like him and trying to figure out what he can take away from that meeting and pass that on to his student athletes is beyond bizarre.
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You are of course firmly against against prejudice, bias, stereotypes. Otherwise, yeah, it’s a wierd pick considering all the fascinating historical figures?
 

All this while this week of the 75th anniversary of the Jews and Hitler's fiasco issue. People have no brains to admire Hitler.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Can we call Genghis Khan or Alexander the Great brilliant tacticians? What about Napoleon?
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Ha. If only Berger had selected a lesser known genocidal killer and enslaver this would have blown over outside of professorial and other well read circles.
 




Pompous Elitist said:
Ha. If only Berger had selected a lesser known genocidal killer and enslaver this would have blown over outside of professorial and other well read circles.
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Yeah, this one was pretty easy. No decent person could go wrong on this one.
 

Are there not 3 people in history who displayed amazing leadership by rallying people to their side who are not also mass murderers?
 

Jeshurun said:
Are there not 3 people in history who displayed amazing leadership by rallying people to their side who are not also mass murderers?
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I'm not even sure it qualifies as "amazing leadership" to lead your country into a disaster / get it broken up up like that.

I think people really think of just "had power" and "was a persuasive speaker" and think that is 'great leadership'. That's a really shallow definition.

But as far as your point goes.... um ... i duno ... let me get back to you.
 



A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I'm not even sure it qualifies as "amazing leadership" to lead your country into a disaster / get it broken up up like that.

I think people really think of just "had power" and "was a persuasive speaker" and think that is 'great leadership'. That's a really shallow definition.

But as far as your point goes.... um ... i duno ... let me get back to you.
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Right, I was using his words. I wouldn’t say amazing leadership. I would say he had great charisma and was a masterful liar and manipulator who deceived many and used fear to coerce the rest into tacit submission.
 

Hitler wanted to reduce human nature to biology and genes and remove any religion, attitude or opinion that defended and supported the underdog. So he went out and cheated his way to a team of 5 start recruits with under the table payments, then he approved grotesque hazing rituals, ran brutal practice sessions in August, and reamed out concussion sufferers.
 

mjfelton15 said:
I think it’s ridiculous that a coach can’t answer honestly without being suspended. Clearly he acknowledged it wouldn’t go over well, he knew people would take it the wrong way, and then what did people do? Took it the wrong way. Can’t speak of Hitler in any way, except negatively. This is pathetic. Say goodbye to free speech
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His free speech was never taken away. There is still consequence to free speech.
 

Maybe this coach should just watch a few documentaries on Hitler. I’m sure there are some out there that analyze and discuss his leadership.... likely by a filmmaker that had an interest in telling Hitler’s story.
 

i wonder if he would have been suspended had he said that he admired stalin?
 

Maybe he's not a Nazi sympathizer but he's definitely stupid to make a public statement like that.
 

mjfelton15 said:
I don’t agree with the modern way of handling these situations involving someone making a bad comment in public. I don’t like the probation, suspending, or firing of someone for a comment they made. Messing with someone’s livelihood, and ability to provide for their family, over a comment doesn’t really help anything.
I guess I’m in a league of my own on this one, I tend to always side with someone’s ability to say what they want to. I never really think the consequences match the comment made. We live in an outrage culture though where we burn people at the stake for what they say.
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I agree in general with your sentiment. People are far too quick to overreact in a lot of situations these days.

But when you call Hitler a "Great Leader" you have to know there are going to be consequences. Hitler is a fascinating historical figure but you can't frame the man who led millions of his people to death, destroyed his country and exterminated millions of jews as a great leader. The man was a monster. How he was able to do what he did makes for an interesting topic, and one that people should be able to discuss, but it is not an example of great leadership.
 

I can't believe this guy went on for four pages arguing with anyone and everyone about someone's "right" to call out those good qualities of Hitler. My lord! By the way, the only leadership qualities Hitler had were evil, bad and really bad.

Coach was either ignorant or racist. Either way, a profoundly insensitive string of comments like that need to be addressed by the institution he works for. If I were them, I'd start by getting to the bottom of the question "Did he say these things because he was ignorant or racist?"
 

mjfelton15 said:
I’m pretty sure I made my stance clear earlier stating that I wouldn’t have said what the coach decided to say. If you’re drawing your own conclusion somehow that I’m pro-Hitler, you can go fuck yourself
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I do want to clarify that when I said "you" I was referring to the guy who said that, not you mjfelton. I apologize for the confusion, I don't think you would be pro Hitler.
 


Did not read whole thread and no plans to.

Suffice to say: I agree with all those who have said or implied that motivating people via hatred and/or coercing people via fear, have nothing to do with leadership!!
 

mjfelton15 said:
In his direct quote, he acknowledged that Hitler was a bad person and also did not say he supported Hitler’s actions. He pointed only to his leadership. That in itself is not something worth suspending someone over or firing them for. You are solidly in the camp of overdramatic and over reacting.
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No I am in the camp of having a measure of emotional intelligence. I would think that it would behoove the administration and the coaching staff to ensure that all players feel welcome.

Being so persistent in defending this coaches actions (and by default Hitler's leadership) makes me wonder about your motives.
 

MplsGopher said:
Did not read whole thread and no plans to.

Suffice to say: I agree with all those who have said or implied that motivating people via hatred and/or coercing people via fear, have nothing to do with leadership!!
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Hmmm, I’d argue fanning flames of division and stoking fear with the goal of attaining and keeping power is alive and well in American politics (and everywhere else). We don’t have to like it, but it’s ok to acknowledge it exists.
 


mjfelton15 said:
Never said he’s not representing the school to some degree. I think head coaches are far more in the representative role than a coordinator, but that’s beside the point. I’m saying he was hired to be a coach. If he’s doing a good job of doing his job, then don’t suspend or fire him. Tell him he’s not going to be doing interviews anymore, have a sit down with him and let him know the university doesn’t approve of that stance, and move on.
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So you would defend his "right to free speech" by forbidding him from doing interviews?

Beyond the basic absurdity of that stance, it really tells me you actually have a problem with what he said.
 

LOL! This thread reminds me of the off topic board. At least I'm not getting a black eye out of this one as I have many supporters with me.
 

What a dumb thing to do. If you bring up the name Hitler in any regard it is just plain stupid, especially in this day and age. He should know better. It's scary knowing that there are individuals like this out there who are leading young people and shaping minds.
 

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