EMPTY SEATS!!! WTF

[vinko bogataj]

In most collegiate stadiums, even the ones housing really really bad teams, the fan attitude is not that the program will only "deserve" a packed house when they are winning consistently... the attitude is that "we will pack this place every home game because its Saturday and its our team".

But of course, this is Minnesota, and people will only offer their allegiance when they feel that they are getting something significant in return.

This post about perfectly sums up our fan base.

 

[vinko bogataj]

We pay tuition, how much do you pay for your seats?

The student regulars are excellent and bring great energy to the game. The problem is that 6,500 student seats would've been about right. I'd also bump (not hugely, but some) the cost to make sure that those getting seats have a little more skin in the game. Now, before some over-emotional, thin-skinned student rips me for this, please know I am an alumnus and have put more money in donations post graduation into this school than you will have paid in tuition if you do all your undergrad work at the "U" (assuming you stay on a single major 4 year plan ) . The "I pay tuition" comment is meaningless considering most of your money goes towards just that, tuition. Fact is the fee coming out of each individual students pocket towards stadium expense is minimal and entitles you to nothing. Further, you may be surprised to know that prior to your enrollment, the University still made students pay......that's right, tuition. That said, if you're a student who feels entitled to your seat, here's a novel idea... show up to the game and, you know, sit in that seat you feel you're owed.

 

[go4gopher]

After the Purdue and MSU games in which the temps were on the brisk side, I thought for sure that this game would be well attended by everyone. Needless to say, I was disappointed. The vitality of students and pageantry of the marching band are qualities that give collegiate football it's unique character. With a percentage of 56% overall and 50% in the conference, we were winning. As for the deer hunting opener, a minimal ratio of students (if any) likely participated in the event. At 60 degrees, you could not have asked for a better day to be outside enjoying this game.

I can't think of anything other than sloth and selfishness as reasons for this. The atmosphere is so much better than in it was at the dome and merits participation, especially by students - who will have this privilege for a mere four or five years. For the record, I attended from '91 through '96 - very thin years with little overall support. In fact, I don't recall freshman orientation even addressing opportunities to purchase student tickets for athletic events. I confess that I did not take advantage of cheap football tickets until mid-way through my matriculation. Moreover, Dinkytown, Stadium Village, and Seven Corners were all ghost towns at the time. If my memory serves me correctly, Dinokken House (sp?) was the first project in over a decade or more as it was erected circa '93. You don't know how well you have it at the University of Minnesota in 2009.

As for other schools, I sometimes wonder whether peer pressure exists to go to the games, be a fan, and support the team. With respect to the quality of play you will find on Saturdays, be prepared for more mistakes and disappointments than you witness on Sundays. The participants are developing both physically and skill-wise; outside of having their tuition waved, they are not paid for this either. Then again, the tax-payers of Minnesota and U of M alumni support are paying a significant portion of the expenses associated with your education as well. As both, I can say that your sincere gratitude is well appreciated.

 

[GopherLady]

The poor attendance in the student section is clearly an issue - but complaining about it does little to help. Also, keep in mind, the students that post on GH are the diehards, so that's not exactly the crowd we're all looking to get through.

This is a student's university - and I have always thought they should come 1st. With that being said, it's clear that this system isn't working - the lower bowl wasn't even full yesterday. I propose a few things (that I think I may have posted, but I honestly can't remember)

1. Let students purchase a guest ticket. That's what they've always been able to do, and I feel it was a lot more full at the hideous Dome, that it has been at The Bank. Let's be honest - I don't really think there are 10,000 hard core students that go to the U. However, there are probably 6000 with dedicated friends that would LOVE to be able to attend.
2. Do a ticket exchange. Nothing super complicated (we all know the U doesn't like things that cost money, or time), just have an exchange at Mariucci. Let kids bring in tickets they can't use until Thursday at 5pm. Give them a voucher in return for that ticket. On Friday, let the public come and purchase the unused tickets. As far as the voucher goes, for the games you can't go to - if there are available seats on the Friday, you can get an extra ticket for a different game. That would be if there were seats to be had - the voucher would not be a guarantee, 1st come, 1st serve.
3. Oversell the crap out of the student section - like 4-5000 seats. I'm not sure if this would every be possible, or even within fire codes, but it seems like this would fill it up.
4. Put a points system in process - like some schools do. I've never been a huge fan of this, because it does take a lot of time and effort, and I really don't think people should have to have a doctor's note to miss games - but they could do it. For every game you get to, you get so many points, and as games go on, the ones with the highest point totals get to fill in the lower bowl. It can be as complicated as getting points for going to pep rallies, bringing signs in, etc. But that would require an organized student section to keep up - and that's a LOT to keep track of. This would be my last suggestion, but any kind of rewards system would be nice to reward the students that are always there.

 

[Brew_recruit]

we are a bandwagon state plain the simple, the vikings are hot right now so no one cares about the gophs, if we were goning for a rosebowl right now TCF tickets would be the hottest in the state, but right now it is almost more fun to see us lose, get arrested, set records for penalties, then it is to see us win.

 

[Goldengopher]

As a student I don't see much interest in Gopher football on campus. It's a party, someplace to go but if it's in the morning (11:00 on a Saturday morning Yikes) I know many of my friends don't think it's worth getting up for. If it's at night then they will go but don't count on many of them staying to the end. I go to all the games and usually stay til the end but that's because I have a "special interest".

I think your complaining about the students is a waste of time.

 

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

why some of us care so much that the students hold up their end of the bargain....

It's not about the money.

You don't get it!

A full stadium rocks! Empty bleachers suck.

^^^^^this is really the only reply that was needed in this entire thread. well said plymouth gopher!^^^^^^^

that being said. the f-ed up logic of SOME of the student posters (and perhaps some of you are no longer students or never went to the u) is mind-boggling to say the least. people are not concerned about the financial aspects of whether or not students show up from the 1st all the way through the 4th quarter, as another student poster suggested. we all want you there (and trust me so do the players, coaches, alumni, etc.) because a full and engaged student section in any college football is generally an advantage for the home team. i have been to many games this season (including this past saturday's game) and for the most part all folks sitting in non-student seating are showing up each and every week.

so all we are asking is for the students - who literally decided to TAKE UP a student season ticket spot in the stadium by purchasing it in the first place - to hold up THEIR end of the "bargain" that they made when purchasing that student season ticket and therefore occupying that ticket/seat for an entire season. part of that "bargain" you made is actually showing up each week. there is absolutely NO point in buying a student season ticket if you don't intend to use it or if you are going to be wishy-washy and come up with lame excuses not to use it.

basically, please do not take up a spot once again next year that another student at the u of m would certainly like to purchase AND actually use each week, just so that some of you can try to sell it on f-ing ebay or craig's list to buy cheap beer or for heaven's sake nasty boone's farm.

okay, rant over.

 

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

I will be able to get student tickets after I graduate. It's a little game I like to call, exploit the system.

1) Register for one course
2) Purchase student season tickets
3) Drop aforementioned course immediately within 100% refund deadline
4) Flash old student I.D. at gate
5) Enjoy games at a discounted price

And it's as simple as that.

wow, you sound like a really sweet dude! man, you are SO clever! it is truly honest and ethical people like you who make the world a "better" place!

 

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

Have you ever played football??...let me explain something I played for a pretty large school and it does effect the play...now obviously I'm not gonna say its a COMPLETE game changer...BUT when it's really loud it's alot harder to a run an offense. and as a defensive player you feed off it. It gets you amped up. When your on defense and it's quiet and there's not alot of people there it sucks.

has he ever played football?! the question for "bankonit" should have been has he ever played ANY competitive sport? playing in front of a packed house of YOUR cheering fans DOES make a very big difference for even the most gifted players because it adds an intangible emotional and psychological element to the game that can not be duplicated. come on. get a clue "bankonit"!

 

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

You guys are making this way over-complicated... If this team ever is good and watching the game doesn't induce brain loss, students will come to watch. And for the chick a couple posts above me that says that there is never any student commitment, do me a favor and go to hockey / basketball games. I gurantee that we have as many people living on campus than anyone in the country. And even if we didn't, how the hell could that involve student involvment.

honestly, i hope you are NOT one of them. and i think many in this thread would probably agree with that assessment based on your general attitude towards just about everything.

 

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

As a student I don't see much interest in Gopher football on campus. It's a party, someplace to go but if it's in the morning (11:00 on a Saturday morning Yikes) I know many of my friends don't think it's worth getting up for. If it's at night then they will go but don't count on many of them staying to the end. I go to all the games and usually stay til the end but that's because I have a "special interest".

I think your complaining about the students is a waste of time.

i honestly don't get this at all. i went to college as well and we would also party on friday's, but my God it was not that difficult to get up on saturday morning by 9:00 or 10:00 and head to the football game for 7 or 8 saturday's each year. it sounds like there really are just a lot of lazy (not saying that about you since it sounds like you hold up your end of the bargain), alcoholic (so they can't get up in the morning) and probably selfish students who unfortunately were able to get their hands on student season tickets this year (let's not forget that the student season tickets DID sell-out this season).

it would be great to establish something like gopherlady described that involved a loyalty/reward system which rewards and perhaps even establishes priority for those students who want to purchase season tickets and take up a finite seating location in the stadium. i really hate seeing the student season tickets being scooped up (and this also happens at other big ten schools) by students who are either doing it for re-selling purposes or who are just plain lazy and lame.

for your friends who really "don't think it is worth their time getting up for" i truly hope they do not get their hands on tickets next year. it just sounds like a waste of the school's time as well as your friend's time and money even buying them in the first place.

 

[dlw4gophers]

there has to be a way to get the student tickets into the hands of the students that will show up. Maybe sell 5,000 to the first 5,000 students that walk up to the ticket office starting at 5AM on a Saturday morning. The other 5,000 sell at several locations on campus the day of the game. I don't know what will work, but the way they are doing it know does not work. I have friends that drive over 100 miles each way to go to the games and seldom if ever miss a game. The students should be able to walk across campus and attend the games.

 

[dlw4gophers]

Or just start winning. Then everyone will show up.

 

[Chadypu]

Bronko, I respect you, but you are being too critical of students.

Just because a student bought a ticket does not use it does not mean they are selfish if they don't use it, they are not obligated to go just because they bought student tickets.

Also, all season it has been near impossible to even give away student tickets to any game but Air Force, so when the "crappy" fans can't go they have no one to sell their ticket to.

The other 40% is not going to care until we start having success.

 

[Schnauzer]

Hats off to Gopherlady. I have been a broken record posting about the empty seats in the student section. Amazingly, those empty seats have grown at a steady rate from the very first game. It has been bad all year and it reached jaw-dropping levels for two particular games... Wisconsin and Illinois. Wisconsin was a HUGE game against the most bitter of rivals at a time when the Gophers looked like they had a chance to make some noise in the Big 10 race. The second deck of the student section had a lot of open seats for that game. The picture of the student section for the Illinois game at the start of this thread says it all. I sit in 133 right next to the student section and for the first time, they couldn't even fill the lower bowl allotment of student seats. 132 was mostly open all game long. AMAZING! The team was just coming off a huge win where their bowl projection had gone from Detroit to a respectable Alamo Bowl.

Gopherlady has some great input. This looks to be only partly due to the students, but also partly due to the new system. Anyone who has been to TCF knows in an instant it is a MUCH better atmosphere than the Metrodome. Despite that, the student section attendance is smaller in TCF even though the new stadium is on campus. No shuttle busses, product on the field is similar, no velcro signs, no blue seats, but the students can no longer fill the lower bowl. The students are the same group that did a decent job attending games at the Metrodome LAST YEAR. As Gopherlady suggested, some changes need to be made and they better be made before next year or they can start spreading tarps over the second deck student section.

I think it is at least partially misguided to suggest the team should win to get the students to attend. To a point, that is true but it does not explain this season's poor student attendance. There are two big components... It has to be more fun that staying away (and winning is only a part of that), and it has to be easy to attend games (and Gopherlady's points address this aspect quite well). If winning was that big of a factor, how could it be explained that the student attendance was better in '07 for a 1-11 team than it is this year for a team that is 5-5 and has played most of its home games after victories that have given the program a lot of hope for the season?

The current system doesn't allow the students to bring friends. Students like to do things in groups. If a group of 10 friends would like to go to a game now, perhaps only 4 of them have tickets. That already eliminates 6. Since the remaining 4 each have their own tickets, only one or two of them can have a conflict to let the others decide to pass on the game rather than attend as a "group" of 1 or 2. We all know this was set up like this to keep Wisconsin and Iowa fans out of the student section. But, in reality it appears to be a classic case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I get a real kick out of the student section and I often nudge whomever I have brought to the game to glance over when the students are jumping, clapping to the rouser, waving their arms during Battle Hym, etc. etc. There are a billion reasons why I like the college game better than pro and a vibrant student section is at or near the top of that list. It is a shame to see an empty student section. At the metrodome, the students showed up but often left early. At TCF, many do not show up at all. Changes should be made, and Gopherlady offers some good places to start.

 

[tikited]

The poor attendance in the student section is clearly an issue - but complaining about it does little to help. Also, keep in mind, the students that post on GH are the diehards, so that's not exactly the crowd we're all looking to get through.

This is a student's university - and I have always thought they should come 1st. With that being said, it's clear that this system isn't working - the lower bowl wasn't even full yesterday. I propose a few things (that I think I may have posted, but I honestly can't remember)

GL...You really should be running things over there. I'm serious. Any interest in a new career?

 

[GopherLady]

GL...You really should be running things over there. I'm serious. Any interest in a new career?

Thanks! Honestly - it would have been my dream job to be the AD at MN. After 3 years of volunteering endlessly for bball though, I realize that I don't fit in in that environment. I'm just too passionate about the Gophers, and wanted to change things, and improve things too much - they couldn't handle that.

And btw - many of my ideas and thoughts have actually been presented to Maturi, marketing, assistant AD's, and others. Until we want to be a top tier team, and invest in winning, you won't be seeing any of them implemented.

 

[at the bar]

The real reason is ....

I saw a couple of big groups of students after the game at the bar. They had obviously been there for a while. I asked them if they went to the game and they said they had tickets but didn't go. They said they were hungover and the 11 game time is too early for games. They came to the bar just after noon to watch the game and drink some beer. They said if TCF had beer they would have gone inside but they just decided to head to the bar instead.

It not that hard to figure out college students. Having a good time pretty much is always priority #1. Start games later in the day and serve beer and student attendance goes up.

 

[Schnauzer]

I saw a couple of big groups of students after the game at the bar. They had obviously been there for a while. I asked them if they went to the game and they said they had tickets but didn't go. They said they were hungover and the 11 game time is too early for games. They came to the bar just after noon to watch the game and drink some beer. They said if TCF had beer they would have gone inside but they just decided to head to the bar instead.

It not that hard to figure out college students. Having a good time pretty much is always priority #1. Start games later in the day and serve beer and student attendance goes up.

So hangovers kept them out of the stadium but not the bar???!!?! Did they mention what kept them out of last week's game with the 7:00 PM start time?

If those students in the bar are representative of a larger group... it is very ironic that the stadium is dry to keep alcohol out of student hands, so they skip attending the games to hit the bars in stead.

 

[at the bar]

Many students did not attend the last 7:00 game because it was halloween night and they were at house/halloween parties or in Madison. Also, the best way to cure a hangover is another beer!

 

[macmoney]

Im not a UofM student but Ive been going to the games and I didn't get in b/c I don't have a student Id, and I know many other people that go there also

Another reason is b/c us college kids want to go out and party before (pre game) and by the time half time comes around half the people are starting to sober up and what not (this is also dangerous b/c many people get SOOOO messed up before the game). Also I don't know why you wouldnt want alcohal at your football games.... more revenue and plus a more intense crowd, which is key for college football games (look at all the top teams, they have somthing in comin----- crazy student section)

Also, Switching from the spread (in my opinion) kills alot of are excitment (cause weber can't make a damn read under the center)

 

[bankonit]

has he ever played football?! the question for "bankonit" should have been has he ever played ANY competitive sport? playing in front of a packed house of YOUR cheering fans DOES make a very big difference for even the most gifted players because it adds an intangible emotional and psychological element to the game that can not be duplicated. come on. get a clue "bankonit"!

Yes I have. But It's called self motivation and all the greats have it. Jordan, Lebron, Kobe, Tiger, all have it. They would play the same in an empty gym (or a driving range, or practice session for Tiger) as they would in front of a packed house. You need to play in a zone, ignore the crowd and make the play regardless of what fans you are playing in front of. If a player can't do that he has no business playing at this level, however there are many Gophers who have no business playing at this level.

 

[aquaben]

empty 'seats'

yes we have a problem with students not showing up for games. but its really not as drastic as it appears. the "seats" in the student section are actually bleachers. at the wisconsin game, which people have mentioned a severe lack of students, i was in the upper deck of the student section, and it was completely packed. its just that due to the nature of bleachers, we all crammed as tightly together and as far down as we could, making it appear like a large section of the seats were unoccupied. just my 2 cents.

 

[MNCH]

Does this mean the U of M won't be going ahead with stadium expansion after the 2009 season?

 

[Schnauzer]

yes we have a problem with students not showing up for games. but its really not as drastic as it appears. the "seats" in the student section are actually bleachers. at the wisconsin game, which people have mentioned a severe lack of students, i was in the upper deck of the student section, and it was completely packed. its just that due to the nature of bleachers, we all crammed as tightly together and as far down as we could, making it appear like a large section of the seats were unoccupied. just my 2 cents.

This would make sense to me if it had gone that way against Air Force too. But, by the end of the first quarter the ENTIRE student section (both decks) was filled against Air Force. There was a LOT of open space in the second deck for the Wisconsin game.

 

[RedPoo]

Ok, I just went to google news and did a search for "empty student section" it the past 30 days.

There were news stories that explicitly mention empty seats in student sections at the following team's home games (and this is just the first page - ten articles):
Michigan State
Wisconsin
Penn State (multiple)
Texas
Harvard

Again, these are only articles from the past month that contain the words "empty student section." This stuff happens everywhere. I think we need to calm down and stop worrying about what other fans are or aren't doing.

 

[Schnauzer]

Ok, I just went to google news and did a search for "empty student section" it the past 30 days.

There were news stories that explicitly mention empty seats in student sections at the following team's home games (and this is just the first page - ten articles):
Michigan State
Wisconsin
Penn State (multiple)
Texas
Harvard

Again, these are only articles from the past month that contain the words "empty student section." This stuff happens everywhere. I think we need to calm down and stop worrying about what other fans are or aren't doing.

Did any of those discussions include photos showing HALF the seats open, taken well into the game? I call "apples and oranges". I personally have seen several discussions on Buckyville bitching about fan support and the empty student section at the start of 11:00 AM games. Of course, that "empty student section" does eventually fill in, unlike our situation at TCF...

 

[RedPoo]

Did any of those discussions include photos showing HALF the seats open, taken well into the game? I call "apples and oranges". I personally have seen several discussions on Buckyville bitching about fan support and the empty student section at the start of 11:00 AM games. Of course, that "empty student section" does eventually fill in, unlike our situation at TCF...

I didn't read the articles (though you're welcome to do so yourself). But, yes, the Wisky one was specifically about the first half. And the Penn State articles, of which there were a few, were due to a fluke game in horrible weather against a boring opponent (I'll let you guess who) and they obviously aren't used to all the empty seats.

I'm just getting really tired of this conversation every week. This isn't a new thing, and it's not like the powers-that-be don't notice and won't try and remedy the problem next season. I get why it's bad/embarrassing, but this has to be by far the most posted-about topic this year, and they keep coming every week even though we covered this from every angle over a month ago. Why did anyone expect this game to be different? Are we going to be shocked and appalled when it happens again next week?

I know we all expected more out of the students, and really all the fans. But it IS getting better, momentum seems to be building, and as is the case with every team in every sport, the fans will get better as the product on the field improves.

 

[Bo Darville]

Maybe people are buying coat chairs?

 

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

Many students did not attend the last 7:00 game because it was halloween night and they were at house/halloween parties or in Madison. Also, the best way to cure a hangover is another beer!

yawn. the alcoholic jokes must be flying right over my head today!