Do you want Ben back for a fourth year?

[Gopher_In_NYC]

I hate to say it but I believe we have overestimated our own talent.

Payne- who I like has no offensive game outside of 2 feet. He needs to be able to develop range from 10 feet. I think he will but he's far from a star yet.
Garcia- a really, really good offensive player, is not physical, is not good defensively and does not see his teammates very well. He is who he is.
Christie- who is going to be a terrific player- is young, not strong, has a marginal handle and is at best an average defender at this point. Next year he will be better at all of these.
Hawkins- another guy I just love to watch- is 5-9 and a defensive mismatch for an opposing 6-2 PG. He is not a threat to drive and score.
Mitchell- gritty kid who is a good solid player but alongside Hawkins- a very small backcourt.
Fox- amazing kid, fantastic hustle, but can't shoot
Carrington- limited on offense but a nice defensive player
Ihnen- just too soft, even though he has talent.
JOJ- athletic as can be, can shoot, doesn't know where to be on the floor it seems

Bottom line: We just don't have any high end two way players. We made a whole lot more out of what we started with than Michigan State who is coached by a HOF coach.

We need to:
1. keep the core (at least players one through 5 above)
2. add a couple good rotation transfers ( big and a wing)
3. Hope Asuma is really good (I think he is)

Pitch perfect and I was guilty of the overestimating as well.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

Disagree regarding Women’s buckets, as coach Dawn P had them poised to make the tourney in her first year, per projections, until Braun was injured. She retained all of the core group and has added a top hundred player in each of her first two classes.

FWIW - I wasn’t referring to volleyball, only the major sports; football, basketball and hockey.

I really like the Dawn hire and think she will do well, but I am not ready to declare it a successful hire based on one year of "might have been good if nothing had gone wrong."

 

[SHGopher]

Lots of responses from others, a few I will mention.

-Need a veteran point guard via portal, experienced. But may have to roll with the PG recruit coming in. NIL and so.forth.

-Half of Payne's game today was bad. He was mugged and loot stolen again and again by MSU. Looked inexperienced.

Yet Payne keeps getting better. Would the Gophers actually get an upgrade?

-If Christie takes the next step then the game is on.

-I have a hunch Garcia could be going for NIL. His stock has risen. Not saying he will just that any sane person would compare the numbers.

-And so the post player that would be coming in would be Garcia's spot.

I hope Garcia stays.

 

[Indiana Gopher]

I said he gets year 4 if we at least make the NIT. Not sure it's going to happen.

If they miss out on the NIT and multiple main contributors say they aren't coming back, it's definitely time to make a move.

I didn't vote in the poll as I am 50/50. A LOT depends on what happens in the offseason, likely in the near-term. IF the core of the team returns intact...and we maybe add a player or two who can contribute from the portal...then I am all in on Ben coming back for Year 4! IF the core gets dismantled (we lose more than 1 of Garcia, Hawkins, Payne, Christie, and Mitchell) plus Fox...I just don't see us being successful next year. In that case, I'd say let's cut bait.

 

[Jack jones]

Again no emotion on the bench. We can do better than BJ. Maybe start with Jerry Stackhouse.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Lots of responses from others, a few I will mention.

-Need a veteran point guard via portal, experienced. But may have to roll with the PG recruit coming in. NIL and so.forth.

You want another PG in addition to Hawkins and Asuma?

-Half of Payne's game today was bad. He was mugged and loot stolen again and again by MSU. Looked inexperienced.

Yet Payne keeps getting better. Would the Gophers actually get an upgrade?

-If Christie takes the next step then the game is on.

-I have a hunch Garcia could be going for NIL. His stock has risen. Not saying he will just that any sane person would compare the numbers.

You think he’ll really be able to get a third transfer?

-And so the post player that would be coming in would be Garcia's spot.

I hope Garcia stays.

 

[CentralGopher]

I’m on the fence on this one at this point. While he got more wins than I expected he only got 1 in the last 6 and had one of the weakest schedules we’ve seen. No doubt Coyle will bring him back but it’s tourney or bust next year even if players leave.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

I really like the Dawn hire and think she will do well, but I am not ready to declare it a successful hire based on one year of "might have been good if nothing had gone wrong."

Good point and I probably over reached on that one.

 

[Dakota2]

Perhaps, I won’t deny I’m print to that.

Maybe you should can also look at how you communicate with others? It generally takes two to tango, from my experience.

We were making two different points.

That’s not remotely close to me being triggered.
As my last boss said if me, “I’m the first one to say thank you or F you.” Middle age and battling some health conditions, have addressed my arrested maturity with the latter type of salutations, but Mad Mike still pops up once in a while.

Not sure why you’d expect that; you’re entitled to your opinion and while I don’t think he “chases” them per se, I do wish there was more ball movement and that needs to be implemented by Ben.

Yes, he does need to initiate the offense sooner.

He actually finished second to Tyler Kolek of Marquette, who ended up @7.6 to Hawk’s 7.5. If you’re not familiar with Kolek, he was the Big East 2023 POY and made several AA teams last year - he’s projected as a second round pick.

many if Hawk’s assists are because he makes passes others can’t generally make at this level - his wrap around to Garcia being a prime example. His assist total was helped by a weak non-conference schedule.

OK, that's more what I expect from the Iron Ranger and self-proclaimed Unofficial Prophet PR Machine. (Special note: I myself have sung Hawk's praise all year as well).

Yes, news of Kolek's superior number has reached my remote parcel of the country and, no, I don't give a rat's ass on Tuesday if he is going to the NBA, which is non-existent to me.

To my point, in a three guard offense where the ball is constantly moving, good shots will present for all five players and all three guards will get about five assists per game each. And yes, it is my opinion that Hawk's recent propensity for controlling the ball did coincide with the late season hype for his battle with Kolek.

To be completely fair, that's Ben's fault for not getting our guy back to facilitating a ball movement offense. The worst result of a guard dribbling the ball for most of the shot clock is that it makes defense easy.

 

[Indiana Gopher]

While I don't feel particularly great about the coach right now, he should get another season. Before the season started, I posted here that, with this roster and schedule, the team should finish at least 17-14 in the regular season but 18-13 would be better and still a fair target. The team met my preseason expected ceiling in so I think it made adequate progress. I'm not going to revise my expected target because they should have finished better when looking at where they were 4 or 5 games ago.

Some of you have tried to maintain that no coach who didn't do better than this by year 3 would get a fourth season anywhere else. I've proven here multiple times that claim is false. Two current Big Ten coaches (Hoiberg and Pikiell) had only losing seasons in their first three years. A former, but recent, Penn State coach (Pat Chambers) didn't have a winning season until his fourth year and he was there nine years. Some of you will reply "But, we're a better program that Nebraska, Rutgers, and Penn State!" Well, recent history doesn't support that claim either. A few years ago, there was a anonymous survey of Big Ten coaches posted here. They rated Minnesota as one of the two or three worst jobs in the conference.

I don't expect the team to make the NIT at this point. If that's the case, Johnson needs to do the following:

1) Do whatever it takes to make sure that the five starters return.

2) Everyone else is expendable. I don't expect Fox to return based on what he has said in recent interviews. Recruit the portal hard and don't stop until you get at least a few honestly good players that have the potential to play 20+ minutes in a conference game if they need to. No scholarships to walk ons or projects (other than the freshmen recruits). No scholarships for imagined limited niche players like Wilson. He absolutely cannot have so many performance minutes riding on the backs of his top players again. Nobody's back is that strong. This is not the first year that he's tried this and failed!

 

[Indiana Gopher]

Excellent points and analysis!

 

[kg21]

Hell no on wanting him back.

We can't defend, and that isn't changing next year.

Carrington does nothing for me.

If Garcia leaves, how do we win more than 5 Big 10 games?

I will add, start over and get an established winning coach. Pay him. Not some hope it works out, guy. If it's just roll the dice on some other guy, then you might as well keep Johnson.

 

[washgopher]

if you want a new coach, who would really want it that would be better. not your fave but reality and who that would want it and is already an experienced HC and with a great track record. don't low ball it.

 

[SHGopher]

You want another PG in addition to Hawkins and Asuma?



You think he’ll really be able to get a third transfer?

Yea, I was.kind of echoing stuff people mentioned. For example.

Christie had to bring the ball up today as a PG.

Team needs depth. Lately the team looks worn. CBJ runs his starters like PJ Fleck runs his bell cow. That would be a PG.

My opinion inserted is that point guard takes more time and yes it would be good to not go with the rookie but realistically talk of just grabbing players costing NIL may not be realistic.

If Christie takes the big step then that is THE thing. Gophers step up.

Garcia debate has been is he to the NBA, overseas, or will his value top out in NIL.

I don't think he's NBA material based on the criteria other people here have said. I do not know the NBA. But you need to shoot around. He took a huge step up this year shooting 3's but realistically...

His payoff will probably be more like Jamison Battle.

Sorry, he's a junior now so I don't care if my phone gets shitfaced now and then and says half-baked things.

And so Payne. Realistically, with NIL, he's our guy. It was kind of ugly today but he keeps at it.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

As a vocal detractor of Ben—he deserves a fourth year. Partially because he has a solid roster and if he can’t win with it next year or keep it intact its an easy decision to move on.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Yea, I was.kind of echoing stuff people mentioned. For example.

Christie had to bring the ball up today as a PG.

Team needs depth. Lately the team looks worn. CBJ runs his starters like PJ Fleck runs his bell cow. That would be a PG.

My opinion inserted is that point guard takes more time and yes it would be good to not go with the rookie but realistically talk of just grabbing players costing NIL may not be realistic.

If Christie takes the big step then that is THE thing. Gophers step up.

Garcia debate has been is he to the NBA,

Not included in any mock drafts I’ve seen.

overseas,

Seems like the most likely route if he leaves.

or will his value top out in NIL.

I don't think he's NBA material based on the criteria other people here have said. I do not know the NBA. But you need to shoot around. He took a huge step up this year shooting 3's but realistically...

His payoff will probably be more like Jamison Battle.

He’s transferred twice already and I doubt he’ll get a third.

I can only see if he’s a grad transfer, which I doubt due to the prior two transfers.

I believe the above is right, but feel free to correct me if I’m incorrect.

Sorry, he's a junior now so I don't care if my phone gets shitfaced now and then and says half-baked things.

Your phone has a drinking problem?

And so Payne. Realistically, with NIL, he's our guy. It was kind of ugly today but he keeps at it.

I think he’s a homebody and will be happy with a little NIL love.

 

[#2Gopher]

I'm surprised about all this. He has made great strides since year. We had a recruit pull out late last summer due to NIL. I honestly thought it would be about 70-30 in favor of him coming back with mostly trolls being on the negative side. I look for good things next year if the whole team comes back.

 

[SHGopher]

And by getting NIL that includes Minnesota.

Compare the numbers, Minnesota NIL or overseas pro.

Show your NIL hand Minnesota.

Maybe he won't be back.

(Is Garcia bluffing).

 

[Some guy]

No! 3 years ago if you asked me in year three if we miss the NCAA Tournament and finish below .500 in the Big 10, I would say hire a NEW COACH.

The rationale that we are better this year is absurd. Look at what Iowa State is doing.......With that logic we should have kept Pitino.

The recruiting class next year is underwhelming at best. We are shooting .358 form the 3 and .693 from the line. Those are both well below what are opponents are doing against us. We are a below average shooting team.

Look at all the talent in MN high schools that leave the State to play other places.

It is time to move on and spend some money.

We fired pitino for going 23-37 with 1 ncaa appearance in 3 years with years 2-3 during odd Covid disruption


Ben Johnson 15-44


It’s depressing being a gopher hoops fan any way you slice it.

 

[Some guy]

I'm surprised about all this. He has made great strides since year. We had a recruit pull out late last summer due to NIL. I honestly thought it would be about 70-30 in favor of him coming back with mostly trolls being on the negative side. I look for good things next year if the whole team comes back.

Did he make strides because the team is good? Or does it look like he did because the three previous teams were so bad?

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Steve Yoder is still available to coach

 

[WoodburyTim]

I'm surprised about all this. He has made great strides since year. We had a recruit pull out late last summer due to NIL. I honestly thought it would be about 70-30 in favor of him coming back with mostly trolls being on the negative side. I look for good things next year if the whole team comes back.

I’m surprised someone doesn’t know that this is a contentious issue. The diehards are 50/50. The casual fans are 20/80 and the occasional/bandwagon fans would be surprised to find out we still have a team.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

I’ve been begging for Dave Smart on here for years. Was told he never coached in the US so it wouldn’t work.

Currently an assistant for Texas Tech.

If we moved on from Ben I’d like him to be interviewed.

 

[skiumah1]

I’ve been begging for Dave Smart on here for years. Was told he never coached in the US so it wouldn’t work.

Currently an assistant for Texas Tech.

If we moved on from Ben I’d like him to be interviewed.

I think I just heard his name when you mentioned him a couple of years back. His resume is more than worthy of an interview. Texas Tech is a good ball club as well. In year 1 with that staff I believe.

 

[skiumah1]

We fired pitino for going 23-37 with 1 ncaa appearance in 3 years with years 2-3 during odd Covid disruption


Ben Johnson 15-44


It’s depressing being a gopher hoops fan any way you slice it.

I'm sick of trying to rationalize excuses for Ben. It really comes down to that.

As was stated by a poster in another thread, if you believe you're a winning program, you don't put up with shit like this. The numbers are awful.

We need to have a more competitive mindset as a program. And we need a coach to reflect that or start that fire.

 

[WriterGoph]

On the contrary, on balance the team outperformed its talent by winning nine Big Ten games. Dawson starts everywhere in the league; Hawk starts on most but not all. Christie comes off the bench on a fair number of teams in the league.

Mitchell doesn't play much if any anywhere else. Payne is a backup on a lot of teams. Fox isn't on the roster anywhere else, nor is Carrington. JOJ, probably not either.

You're out of your gourd if you think think Carrington and Fox are not even on any other Big Ten rosters. Doubly so if don't realize Christie would be starting for at least 6+ teams in the league. He was a contender for Big Ten Frosh of the Year.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

at mid-season, I would have said Yes, Johnson gets another year no question.

but after watching another team go downhill to end the season, I will answer thusly:

Coyle should sit down with Johnson and say this:

"you can come back next season under two conditions: 1st, you MUST play a stronger non-conference schedule. and 2nd, you must make the NCAA tournament."

If Johnson is willing to return under those conditions, fine, give him a 4th year. If Johnson is not willing to return under those conditions, then Coyle has to suck it up and hire the best coach available no matter how much it costs.

See if the Utah St. coach is willing to coach a big ten team.

 

[WriterGoph]

I hate to say it but I believe we have overestimated our own talent.

Payne- who I like has no offensive game outside of 2 feet. He needs to be able to develop range from 10 feet. I think he will but he's far from a star yet.
Garcia- a really, really good offensive player, is not physical, is not good defensively and does not see his teammates very well. He is who he is.
Christie- who is going to be a terrific player- is young, not strong, has a marginal handle and is at best an average defender at this point. Next year he will be better at all of these.
Hawkins- another guy I just love to watch- is 5-9 and a defensive mismatch for an opposing 6-2 PG. He is not a threat to drive and score.
Mitchell- gritty kid who is a good solid player but alongside Hawkins- a very small backcourt.
Fox- amazing kid, fantastic hustle, but can't shoot
Carrington- limited on offense but a nice defensive player
Ihnen- just too soft, even though he has talent.
JOJ- athletic as can be, can shoot, doesn't know where to be on the floor it seems

Bottom line: We just don't have any high end two way players. We made a whole lot more out of what we started with than Michigan State who is coached by a HOF coach.

We need to:
1. keep the core (at least players one through 5 above)
2. add a couple good rotation transfers ( big and a wing)
3. Hope Asuma is really good (I think he is)

Dawson Garcia was voted 2nd Team All Big Ten. That's the top 10 players in the whole league. You're greatly underselling Garcia.

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

Again no emotion on the bench. We can do better than BJ. Maybe start with Jerry Stackhouse.

I'm not sure what is so appealing about this record:

Season	School	G	W	L	W-L%
2019-20	Vanderbilt	32	11	21	0.344
2020-21	Vanderbilt	25	9	16	0.36
2021-22	Vanderbilt	36	19	17	0.528
2022-23	Vanderbilt	37	22	15	0.595
2023-24	Vanderbilt	32	9	23	0.281
Career	Vanderbilt	162	70	92	0.432

Vanderbilt has 7 players in the NBA this season. Vanderbilt has lots of rich alumni. Nashville is in a much better location for recruiting than Minnesota. What makes you think Stackhouse would do better here than he did there?

 

[Ski-U-Ham]

Again no emotion on the bench. We can do better than BJ. Maybe start with Jerry Stackhouse.

I don't know why you'd pick Steakhouse over literally any other available coach.