Do you want Ben back for a fourth year?

[Gopher_In_NYC]

My baseline was a postseason this season and I don’t see that happening, based on the available metrics - this qualifies as a good use of analytics.

I’ve been a big backer of Ben, as he is our coach, but I think we need a change.
I will always be a “homer” and I’ll take that over starting hyperbolic threads about someone’s ability. He got close this season, but we collapsed at the end of the season and our lack of depth showed.

Regardless, I feel a change is warranted, and vote no to a fourth year for Ben.

I think Coyle will give him one more year and that’s it unless we make the NCAA next season. If he comes back, I will be vociferously cheering for us to make March Madness and that I’m wrong; no biggie, I’m wrong and/or have made mistakes often in my life.


And your vote?

 

[GophersInIowa]

I said he gets year 4 if we at least make the NIT. Not sure it's going to happen.

If they miss out on the NIT and multiple main contributors say they aren't coming back, it's definitely time to make a move.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Think you need two categories under the yes column. I am a yes if the roster stays mostly in tact. If next year is a rebuild then I would make the coaching change now and vote no. Ben has done enough this year to get one more shot with these guys.....but he hasn't done enough to earn another shot at building a roster from the ground up again.

 

[Johnnyboy18]

Think you need two categories under the yes column. I am a yes if the roster stays mostly in tact. If next year is a rebuild then I would make the coaching change now and vote no. Ben has done enough this year to get one more shot with these guys.....but he hasn't done enough to earn another shot at building a roster from the ground up again.

That's not a baseline though. Players can transfer whenever they want, you aren't going to know the roster until the fall semester starts. Rutgers lost 2 starters late in the process.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

That's not a baseline though. Players can transfer whenever they want, you aren't going to know the roster until the fall semester starts. Rutgers lost 2 starters late in the process.

That was my thinking FWIW.

I was trying to keep this as simple as possible

The change IMO cannot hinge on whether Garcia (etc…) comes back or not - a legit coach with real bona fides would have a good chance to retain many in our core.

 

[SHGopher]

To me the debate now is:

Why did the team fall short? I assume the team missed the NIT.

-It's on coach CBJ. This has several sub-argumenents.

-Need another year for players like Payne and Christie to develop.

-Need another player(s) in the pipeline.


Next season the explanation for whatever happens will be one thing only:

-It's on coach CBJ.

 

[upnorthkid]

Torn on this one. Team was much better this year, but the comparison is a horrible team last year. The trend line is improved now. On paper, they should be better next year if the roster stays intact. I’d probably give him one more year unless multiple guys bolt right away (a sign the locker room is unhappy). If he gets the additional year, it’s NCAA or bust without exceptions (If there are injuries, it’s on Ben to have the depth for it and he’s already gotten a long leash).

 

[Some guy]

I’m just not sure. I would love to move on if you could tell me we definitely get a coach I will believe in day 1

If we are going to hire Ben Johnson part 2 you might as well give him a 4th year

 

[Gopherbbdude]

I voted yes. Year 1 really didn't count...all new players, except 1. That was a lose, lose situation. But got Fox.

Year two he got a couple pcs Payne, Carrington, Garcia.

This year added a few more pics, Hawkins, Mitchell, Christie.

Next year I expect more

Folks these days want change to come NOW!! Some things just take time. He deserves 1 more year.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Torn on this one. Team was much better this year, but the comparison is a horrible team last year. The trend line is improved now. On paper, they should be better next year if the roster stays intact. I’d probably give him one more year unless multiple guys bolt right away (a sign the locker room is unhappy). If he gets the additional year, it’s NCAA or bust without exceptions (If there are injuries, it’s on Ben to have the depth for it and he’s already gotten a long leash).

I felt the exact way, but I set my baseline as NIT+ or time for a switch; I’ve changed my baseline (in business) before in thinking a supplier, who I liked would turn it around with more time, and it always bit me in the backside. After I learned from that, baselines, short of An act of God, were strictly enforced on all suppliers.

 

[BleedGopher]

I'll say this, if Johnson gets a 4th year, Coyle's job should be on the line as well. New President coming in, hope she cares about sports. If Coyle brings Johnson back (which I expect he will) then he's endorsing the path Johnson is on. Fine. Coyle's on the line as well.

If Ben goes after next year, so should Coyle.

Go Gophers!!

 

[Dave H]

Torn on this one. Team was much better this year, but the comparison is a horrible team last year. The trend line is improved now. On paper, they should be better next year if the roster stays intact. I’d probably give him one more year unless multiple guys bolt right away (a sign the locker room is unhappy). If he gets the additional year, it’s NCAA or bust without exceptions (If there are injuries, it’s on Ben to have the depth for it and he’s already gotten a long leash).

I am torn too cause the NIT was my line in the sand and it looks like we are straddling that line. The team was better, but it is also hard to know if part of that was a function of a bad conference and a horrid schedule. Down the stretch the deficiencies in our coaching and talent were very very noticeable.

The other thing is, I don't like the idea of "NCAA or bust" for a young coach...I think it adds way to much pressure for someone in this position. Add in that a lot of the players on this team also seemed to just wilt under the pressure as things got tighter and the games had more meaning and it seems like a recipe for disaster. I just think Ben will be set up to fail which I definitely do not want. (I want us to put coaches and players in a position to succeed)

If there is a coach with a resume who wants the job I think you have to hear him out at this point.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

I'd say no. Has track record is 2 historically awful years and and one bad year. I feel like the only real argument in his favor is that his first two years were so bad, that being "bad but not historically awful" in year 3 looks good by comparison.

I'm typing this assuming we missed NIT. If we make the NIT and he goes on a deep run, I'd probably grudgingly say it's worth one more year.

If he does come back, what is the expectation next year? Just making the tournament would stilk leave him with a bad four year record. I always thought it was weird that we brought Tubby back after two 6-12 years, only to fire him after making the round of 32. Why did we bring him back if we were going to fire him for anything short of the sweet 16? If Johnson comes back, makes the tourney, wins a game, and gets bumped in the round of 32, he still has a more fireable resume than when we fired Tubby.

 

[Dave H]

I'll say this, if Johnson gets a 4th year, Coyle's job should be on the line as well. New President coming in, hope she cares about sports. If Coyle brings Johnson back (which I expect he will) then he's endorsing the path Johnson is on. Fine. Coyle's on the line as well.

If Ben goes after next year, so should Coyle.

Go Gophers!!

While I agree, I don't think that will be the case unless both football and basketball take major steps back.

 

[WriterGoph]

Zero chance Ben isn't back next year. Hawkins already said he is "definitely coming back next season." The team showed great improvement this year and our depth hurt us and we ran out of gas down the stretch. Ben deserves a chance to fill in the gaps in the portal and have some continuity on the top of the roster.

 

[007gopherfan]

Huge CBJ supporter and wanted him to do well, but I voted no. I really would only want a switch if there is a primed experience coach out there ready for the big ten with recruiting power. If there was one like the Creighton coach...I would make the switch. If not, hopefully Ben has all returning for a 4th year and at least 1 good year.

Things disappointing and concerning are:

1) Development of players. This team I thought would be 8-11 deep this year. Betts, Keiny's...are they developing or 4 year practice squad players?? Why was Jack Wilson brought in? Only 2 recruits next year coming in so far. If people leave, we are back to square one anyhow bringing in 5 transfers. Are we just going to hope for 3-4 transfers every year. Transfers should be used to plug in a piece here and there with movements, injuries, timing of certain positions recruited each year, etc.

2) Style of play - No fast break, no press when needed, lack of ball movement and cuts(especially in 2nd halves) I understand maybe year 1 team couldn't run so you slow it down to avoid 30 pt losses, but this team was probably quickest team in big ten looked like wanted to run and likely backed away and took a bad shot with 3 seconds on shot clock too many times.

3) Scheduling...maybe not in charge of non conference scheduling, but needs to get better if you want a chance to dance and be ready for big ten play.

If everyone does come back...CBJ needs to find a C that can contribute more than Jack did this year. Payne whether he starts or not is a 20-25...28/min a game player and there is nothing wrong with that for Junior year. Big ten is tough and physical and 20-28 minutes is a lot. Garcia is not a 5 player. Grayson Grove is going to need sometime I believe, so Ben could also use another 4 player to spell Garcia so he can play 30/game instead of 38. Assuming Betts, JOJ, Keiny's all ready to contribute more at the 3(BUT ARE THEY READY AT ALL)...they are not 4. SG you got Christie, Mitchell, Carrington. PG you go Hawkins, Asuma. Tough spot to put Asuma in, but you got Mitchell that can spell sometime at PG too. If you can develop Asuma with 5 to 10/min game that be great.

Will be interesting.

 

[TD12]

No! 3 years ago if you asked me in year three if we miss the NCAA Tournament and finish below .500 in the Big 10, I would say hire a NEW COACH.

The rationale that we are better this year is absurd. Look at what Iowa State is doing.......With that logic we should have kept Pitino.

The recruiting class next year is underwhelming at best. We are shooting .358 form the 3 and .693 from the line. Those are both well below what are opponents are doing against us. We are a below average shooting team.

Look at all the talent in MN high schools that leave the State to play other places.

It is time to move on and spend some money.

 

[TD12]

Zero chance Ben isn't back next year. Hawkins already said he is "definitely coming back next season." The team showed great improvement this year and our depth hurt us and we ran out of gas down the stretch. Ben deserves a chance to fill in the gaps in the portal and have some continuity on the top of the roster.

Hmmmm!

Better get a bunch of transfers!!!

 

[GophersInIowa]

Zero chance Ben isn't back next year. Hawkins already said he is "definitely coming back next season." The team showed great improvement this year and our depth hurt us and we ran out of gas down the stretch. Ben deserves a chance to fill in the gaps in the portal and have some continuity on the top of the roster.

That's good news that Hawkins is coming back.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Zero chance Ben isn't back next year. Hawkins already said he is "definitely coming back next season." The team showed great improvement this year and our depth hurt us and we ran out of gas down the stretch. Ben deserves a chance to fill in the gaps in the portal and have some continuity on the top of the roster.

As Hawk’s unofficial PR Man, it’s great to hear that he’s coming back!

Where did you garner such insight?

 

[WriterGoph]

No! 3 years ago if you asked me in year three if we miss the NCAA Tournament and finish below .500 in the Big 10, I would say hire a NEW COACH.

The rationale that we are better this year is absurd. Look at what Iowa State is doing.......With that logic we should have kept Pitino.

The recruiting class next year is underwhelming at best. We are shooting .358 form the 3 and .693 from the line. Those are both well below what are opponents are doing against us. We are a below average shooting team.

Look at all the talent in MN high schools that leave the State to play other places.

It is time to move on and spend some money.

You know the recruiting class already? I was under the impression that spring hadn't happened yet.

 

[MplsGopher]

How much would it cost to fire him sometime this month?

That cost would have to be approved by the regents.

I’m guessing it would be some seven figures number? I don’t think they’ll vote yes on that.

 

[WriterGoph]

As Hawk’s unofficial PR Man, it’s great to hear that he’s coming back!

Where did you garner such insight?

it's on the front of the Star Tribune sports page

Gophers point guard Elijah Hawkins 'definitely coming back next year'

After Thursday's loss to Michigan State, Gophers junior Elijah Hawkins made it clear he has no plans to transfer.

m.startribune.com

 

[MplsGopher]

While I agree, I don't think that will be the case unless both football and basketball take major steps back.

If football wins 4 or less this season and basketball goes back to a 22-23 kind of season, I’d vote yes with my nonexistent vote to fire all three.

The cost of that I can’t imagine, and would cause the regents to poop a brick that would not be colored gold.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

it's on the front of the Star Tribune sports page

Gophers point guard Elijah Hawkins 'definitely coming back next year'

After Thursday's loss to Michigan State, Gophers junior Elijah Hawkins made it clear he has no plans to transfer.

m.startribune.com

Thanks.

Yippee more assist threads next season.

 

[Gilthorp57]

My baseline was a postseason this season and I don’t see that happening, based on the available metrics - this qualifies as a good use of analytics.

I’ve been a big backer of Ben, as he is our coach, but I think we need a change.
I will always be a “homer” and I’ll take that over starting hyperbolic threads about someone’s ability. He got close this season, but we collapsed at the end of the season and our lack of depth showed.

Regardless, I feel a change is warranted, and vote no to fourth year for Ben.

I think Coyle will give him one more year and that’s it unless we make the NCAA next season. If he comes back, I will be vociferously cheering for us to make March Madness and that I’m wrong; no biggie, I’m wrong and/or have made mistakes often in my life.


And your vote?

Make or break next year. If he does a Holtzmann, he could be gone before the year is up.

 

[skiumah1]

No! 3 years ago if you asked me in year three if we miss the NCAA Tournament and finish below .500 in the Big 10, I would say hire a NEW COACH.

I'm right with ya here.

I don't care how much we improved from last year, if you told me in year 3 that we were not an NCAA team (And likely not an NIT Team) I would not be totally surprised but that doesn't make it OK.

I feel like Coyle firing Pitino meant that we wanted to go to another level. At this point, it's just trying to stay afloat for Ben year to year.

Ben will be getting a 4th year and I really hope we are able to add a high level guard and high level post. We just don't have enough right now talent-wise to overcome not doing the little things that we don't do. We don't outwork teams, we aren't a tough, lockdown D type team, etc. The controllable things need to be better controlled.

 

[bga1]

My baseline was a postseason this season and I don’t see that happening, based on the available metrics - this qualifies as a good use of analytics.

I’ve been a big backer of Ben, as he is our coach, but I think we need a change.
I will always be a “homer” and I’ll take that over starting hyperbolic threads about someone’s ability. He got close this season, but we collapsed at the end of the season and our lack of depth showed.

Regardless, I feel a change is warranted, and vote no to fourth year for Ben.

I think Coyle will give him one more year and that’s it unless we make the NCAA next season. If he comes back, I will be vociferously cheering for us to make March Madness and that I’m wrong; no biggie, I’m wrong and/or have made mistakes often in my life.


And your vote?

I want a better version of Ben back next year and I want to see some change in the assistant staff. No one is getting his ear it seems. Ben needs to be less stubborn. Drop the big man hard hedge for the most part, mix up the defenses, be more creative in working a longer rotation and the team has to play 40 minutes of defense. This team was terribly inconsistent on that aspect.

The only way I want Ben gone is if we have a home run coach in the wings- a proven big time power conference winner. Otherwise it will be melt down and start over again. This is NIL world and we are still behind on that aspect. If we fire Ben for something less than a big name- it's an absolute disaster.

 

[bga1]

Huge CBJ supporter and wanted him to do well, but I voted no. I really would only want a switch if there is a primed experience coach out there ready for the big ten with recruiting power. If there was one like the Creighton coach...I would make the switch. If not, hopefully Ben has all returning for a 4th year and at least 1 good year.

Things disappointing and concerning are:

1) Development of players. This team I thought would be 8-11 deep this year. Betts, Keiny's...are they developing or 4 year practice squad players?? Why was Jack Wilson brought in? Only 2 recruits next year coming in so far. If people leave, we are back to square one anyhow bringing in 5 transfers. Are we just going to hope for 3-4 transfers every year. Transfers should be used to plug in a piece here and there with movements, injuries, timing of certain positions recruited each year, etc.

2) Style of play - No fast break, no press when needed, lack of ball movement and cuts(especially in 2nd halves) I understand maybe year 1 team couldn't run so you slow it down to avoid 30 pt losses, but this team was probably quickest team in big ten looked like wanted to run and likely backed away and took a bad shot with 3 seconds on shot clock too many times.

3) Scheduling...maybe not in charge of non conference scheduling, but needs to get better if you want a chance to dance and be ready for big ten play.

If everyone does come back...CBJ needs to find a C that can contribute more than Jack did this year. Payne whether he starts or not is a 20-25...28/min a game player and there is nothing wrong with that for Junior year. Big ten is tough and physical and 20-28 minutes is a lot. Garcia is not a 5 player. Grayson Grove is going to need sometime I believe, so Ben could also use another 4 player to spell Garcia so he can play 30/game instead of 38. Assuming Betts, JOJ, Keiny's all ready to contribute more at the 3(BUT ARE THEY READY AT ALL)...they are not 4. SG you got Christie, Mitchell, Carrington. PG you go Hawkins, Asuma. Tough spot to put Asuma in, but you got Mitchell that can spell sometime at PG too. If you can develop Asuma with 5 to 10/min game that be great.

Will be interesting.

When it comes to the U - I always assume we are NOT going to do things big time. So my bring him back vote was based on the assumption we would be melting it down for another unproven guy.

 

[Dakota2]

That was my thinking FWIW.

I was trying to keep this as simple as possible

The change IMO cannot hinge on whether Garcia (etc…) comes back or not - a legit coach with real bona fides would have a good chance to retain many in our core.

No coach is going to talk Garcia into staying or leaving. He has played four years and has the biggest decision of his life to make, based entirely on his own best interest. No coaching professional is going to try to talk his best player into doing something against his best interests.

I doubt Dawson will return. He is as good a college player as he's going to ever be. It would be very risky to assume the team will be dramatically better next year and good enough to make a deep run in the tournament. Of course that would be a lot more likely if he stays, but it's not assured. Even with everyone back we are still a couple of strong guys away from being a top tier team in the league.

We were dominated again today on the boards. The number 1 priority is a very strong big man who can hammer the boards.