Do you want Ben back for a fourth year?

[007gopherfan]

https://www.si.com/college/minnesot...gophers-could-be-no-1-in-the-league-next-year

Izzo like defeating Minnesota and stealing a few recruits

 

[007gopherfan]

When it comes to the U - I always assume we are NOT going to do things big time. So my bring him back vote was based on the assumption we would be melting it down for another unproven guy.

Agreed - if that is the case. Johnson does now have 3 years experience and hopefully returning many of the team and able to add few more big bodies in the post.

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

While I don't feel particularly great about the coach right now, he should get another season. Before the season started, I posted here that, with this roster and schedule, the team should finish at least 17-14 in the regular season but 18-13 would be better and still a fair target. The team met my preseason expected ceiling in so I think it made adequate progress. I'm not going to revise my expected target because they should have finished better when looking at where they were 4 or 5 games ago.

Some of you have tried to maintain that no coach who didn't do better than this by year 3 would get a fourth season anywhere else. I've proven here multiple times that claim is false. Two current Big Ten coaches (Hoiberg and Pikiell) had only losing seasons in their first three years. A former, but recent, Penn State coach (Pat Chambers) didn't have a winning season until his fourth year and he was there nine years. Some of you will reply "But, we're a better program that Nebraska, Rutgers, and Penn State!" Well, recent history doesn't support that claim either. A few years ago, there was a anonymous survey of Big Ten coaches posted here. They rated Minnesota as one of the two or three worst jobs in the conference.

I don't expect the team to make the NIT at this point. If that's the case, Johnson needs to do the following:

1) Do whatever it takes to make sure that the five starters return.

2) Everyone else is expendable. I don't expect Fox to return based on what he has said in recent interviews. Recruit the portal hard and don't stop until you get at least a few honestly good players that have the potential to play 20+ minutes in a conference game if they need to. No scholarships to walk ons or projects (other than the freshmen recruits). No scholarships for imagined limited niche players like Wilson. He absolutely cannot have so many performance minutes riding on the backs of his top players again. Nobody's back is that strong. This is not the first year that he's tried this and failed!

 

[Bad Gopher]

I'll say this, if Johnson gets a 4th year, Coyle's job should be on the line as well. New President coming in, hope she cares about sports. If Coyle brings Johnson back (which I expect he will) then he's endorsing the path Johnson is on. Fine. Coyle's on the line as well.

If Ben goes after next year, so should Coyle.

Go Gophers!!

That's a good way to frame it. It's a bit of PTSD from the past, however. Most of us remember Maturi saying his neck was on the line if this Brewster thing doesn't work...and then his neck not being on the line once the Brewster thing didn't work.

 

[Johnnyboy18]

I'll say this, if Johnson gets a 4th year, Coyle's job should be on the line as well. New President coming in, hope she cares about sports. If Coyle brings Johnson back (which I expect he will) then he's endorsing the path Johnson is on. Fine. Coyle's on the line as well.

If Ben goes after next year, so should Coyle.

Go Gophers!!

Coyle isn't getting fired he just got extended.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

No coach is going to talk Garcia into staying or leaving. He has played four years and has the biggest decision of his life to make, based entirely on his own best interest. No coaching professional is going to try to talk his best player into doing something against his best interests.

I never specifically said anything about a coach “talking him into coming back” (that was your assumption); the implication was that the bona fides of a legit new coach would be an attraction for to the core group of players to return.

Furthermore, I didn’t limit my comment only to Garcia, as evidenced by etc…in the parenthesis with him, and later when I referred to the aforementioned core group of players.

There was nothing to correct. That’s okay, everyone shoots an airball once in a while Mike; the only one who hasn’t to my knowledge is , and that ain’t either of us, the last time I checked

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

When it comes to the U - I always assume we are NOT going to do things big time. So my bring him back vote was based on the assumption we would be melting it down for another unproven guy.

And probably losing our starters (at least some of them) if we did that. I believe the NCAA typically gives carte blanche waivers when your coach leaves or is fired.

 

[Bad Gopher]

To answer the question, no. But only if you've done the groundwork and know you can bring in a top candidate, someone who you KNOW will be successful, not just hope will be.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

at mid-season, I would have said Yes, Johnson gets another year no question.

but after watching another team go downhill to end the season, I will answer thusly:

Coyle should sit down with Johnson and say this:

"you can come back next season under two conditions: 1st, you MUST play a stronger non-conference schedule. and 2nd, you must make the NCAA tournament."

If Johnson is willing to return under those conditions, fine, give him a 4th year. If Johnson is not willing to return under those conditions, then Coyle has to suck it up and hire the best coach available no matter how much it costs.

 

[Gophers7633]

No, I don't want him back at this point. 3 years is enough time, especially in this era to put a respectable program together. Maybe if we just missed out on the tournament, I'd have a different tune, but we didn't even sniff it. The results simply don't suggest he should be back. We've "improved" to a fringe top 100 team. I mean just listen to how that sounds.

 

[Gophers7633]

@Johnnyboy18 finds it funny we stink again? Okay. I'd like to be better but that's just me.

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

If Johnson is willing to return under those conditions, fine, give him a 4th year. If Johnson is not willing to return under those conditions, then Coyle has to suck it up and hire the best coach available no matter how much it costs.

.
Why would Johnson not come back under those conditions? He could come back under those conditions and be fired if he doesn't make them and take his payout. Or, he could resign now, forfeit another year of compensation, and not be entitled to any payout. I can't imagine why he would choose Option B.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Coyle isn't getting fired he just got extended.

Excluding Whalen and Ben(TBD), his hires have good to excellent.

 

[Dakota2]

I never specifically said anything about a coach “talking him into coming back” (that was your assumption); the implication was that the bona fides of a legit new coach would be an attraction for to the core group of players to return.

Furthermore, I didn’t limit my comment only to Garcia, as evidenced by etc…in the parenthesis with him, and later when I referred to the aforementioned core group of players.

There was nothing to correct. That’s okay, everyone shoots an airball once in a while Mike; the only one who hasn’t to my knowledge is , and that ain’t either of us, the last time I checked

That's just a little too sensitive, in my opinion. I did not write a post to "correct" you. I said "talk him into" and you said retain. To retain players Ben needs to have an understanding with them about the future (talking) or chain them in their quarters.

My actual point was that Garcia is unlikely to decide based on who or who will not be playing for us next year. He is at a point where he will make a business decision. Ben, as his coach, mentor, and friend will express his appreciation for Dawson's contributions by encouraging him to do what he believes is best for himself.

Frankly, I did not dream this exchange would be triggering. I was, however, expecting a full-on assault for my post (maybe on another thread) that said Hawk is hurting the offense by controlling the ball too much and chasing assists.

The Prophet will be a better player next year -- and the Gophers will be a better team -- if he is initiating ball movement to create open shots rather than playing a 30-second two man game with a post.

If I'm Johnson I do not want the national assist leader any more than I want the nation's top scorer. Both of those take away from good team basketball.

 

[everybody knows my name]

I'm surprised to be voting in favor of BJ, but I am.

He's remade the roster, put together a better season than almost anyone expected, and the outlook for next year is better yet. Bring him back and if he doesn't win 20+ games and bring us to the NCAA tourney, then let him go.

 

[BleedGopher]

Excluding Whalen and Ben(TBD), his hires have good to excellent.

We have no clue on women's basketball and volleyball. On paper, yes, they both seem strong, but first year for both ended much worse than early season hopes. There's a ton of factors that go into both, but we can't say either were "good to excellent" yet, just way too early.

Go Gophers!!

 

[Gold Vision]

Like others have said, you only cut ties if you already have someone established lined up to make a splash and step right in to supplement this roster.

Firing Ben, paying the buyout, and sitting through a 2-3 month search would absolutely have us starting back at square one.

Personally, I think there’s almost zero chance they make a move this offseason unless you have that no-brainer lined up.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

To answer the question, no. But only if you've done the groundwork and know you can bring in a top candidate, someone who you KNOW will be successful, not just hope will be.

This is how Coyle has operated with every hire except for Ben Johnson, which is why I will never believe he was truly Coyle's hire. You can argue Whalen too, but that risk actually made some sense.

 

[stocker08]

Zero chance Ben isn't back next year. Hawkins already said he is "definitely coming back next season." The team showed great improvement this year and our depth hurt us and we ran out of gas down the stretch. Ben deserves a chance to fill in the gaps in the portal and have some continuity on the top of the roster.

A more concise version of my feelings on it. Well said.

 

[Big Ten Championship]

I agree he will be back, but he has to play more than 1 or 2 subs. We were winning when JOJ was getting some minutes. The last 3 losses the team ran out of gas. That is on Ben.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Bottom line, this team underperformed its talent, at least in my estimation.

 

[tikited]

No. Just no is my answer.

He will be back though. I can't see how he isn't.

 

[SPEGOPHER]

I have little confidence that Ben is the long-term solution. He finally put together a coherent roster in year three, and the team seemed to have good chemistry. But nothing suggests he is a good X&O coach, or that he has a system that makes up for any talent deficiencies. (Just once I’d like to see a gopher team that moves on O and plays sound D.)

With that said, if you fire Ben this offseason, it’s virtually guaranteed we lose Garcia, Christie, and Fox. I think the ability to keep this team intact (and not start from scratch yet again) is worth giving him another year.

 

[CPTMidnight]

Coyle isn't getting fired he just got extended.

Ben isn't getting fired either.

If you want to put pressure on the U to improve this program Coyle is the key.

The incoming president (whoever that might end up being) should come in to noisy complaining about Coyle having no idea what he is doing and people demanding that he resign due to performance.

Coyle, if you wanted to keep your job you should need to do more than elevating the Football team from a 52% (Kill/Claeys era) to 59%(Fleck) winning percentage.

 

[WoodburyTim]

I say yes bring him back, but not with a lot of enthusiasm. A nice improvement over awful does not have as much juice with me as it does others. But overall at least seen enough to say, let’s try it again.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

That's just a little too sensitive, in my opinion. I did not write a post to "correct" you. I said "talk him into" and you said retain.

Perhaps, I won’t deny I’m print to that.

To retain players Ben needs to have an understanding with them about the future (talking) or chain them in their quarters.

Maybe you should can also look at how you communicate with others? It generally takes two to tango, from my experience.

My actual point was that Garcia is unlikely to decide based on who or who will not be playing for us next year. He is at a point where he will make a business decision. Ben, as his coach, mentor, and friend will express his appreciation for Dawson's contributions by encouraging him to do what he believes is best for himself.

We were making two different points.

Frankly, I did not dream this exchange would be triggering.

That’s not remotely close to me being triggered.
As my last boss said if me, “I’m the first one to say thank you or F you.” Middle age and battling some health conditions, have addressed my arrested maturity with the latter type of salutations, but Mad Mike still pops up once in a while.

I was, however, expecting a full-on assault for my post (maybe on another thread) that said Hawk is hurting the offense by controlling the ball too much and chasing assists.

Not sure why you’d expect that; you’re entitled to your opinion and while I don’t think he “chases” them per se, I do wish there was more ball movement and that needs to be implemented by Ben.

The Prophet will be a better player next year -- and the Gophers will be a better team -- if he is initiating ball movement to create open shots rather than playing a 30-second two man game with a post.

Yes, he does need to initiate the offense sooner.

If I'm Johnson I do not want the national assist leader any more than I want the nation's top scorer. Both of those take away from good team basketball.

He actually finished second to Tyler Kolek of Marquette, who ended up @7.6 to Hawk’s 7.5. If you’re not familiar with Kolek, he was the Big East 2023 POY and made several AA teams last year - he’s projected as a second round pick.

many if Hawk’s assists are because he makes passes others can’t generally make at this level - his wrap around to Garcia being a prime example. His assist total was helped by a weak non-conference schedule.

 

[Dakota2]

I agree he will be back, but he has to play more than 1 or 2 subs. We were winning when JOJ was getting some minutes. The last 3 losses the team ran out of gas. That is on Ben.

Can't say definitively who its on without knowing the actual circumstances behind JOJ's disappearance from the floor. My gut tells me there are things we as fans don't know about the situation.

If JOJ is healthy, has a good attitude and wants to help his team, then, yes, that would reflect poorly on Johnson's judgment.

 

[Dakota2]

Bottom line, this team underperformed its talent, at least in my estimation.

On the contrary, on balance the team outperformed its talent by winning nine Big Ten games. Dawson starts everywhere in the league; Hawk starts on most but not all. Christie comes off the bench on a fair number of teams in the league.

Mitchell doesn't play much if any anywhere else. Payne is a backup on a lot of teams. Fox isn't on the roster anywhere else, nor is Carrington. JOJ, probably not either.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

We have no clue on women's basketball and volleyball.

Disagree regarding Women’s buckets, as coach Dawn P had them poised to make the tourney in her first year, per projections, until Braun was injured. She retained all of the core group and has added a top hundred player in each of her first two classes.

FWIW - I wasn’t referring to volleyball, only the major sports; football, basketball and hockey.

On paper, yes, they both seem strong, but first year for both ended much worse than early season hopes. There's a ton of factors that go into both, but we can't say either were "good to excellent" yet, just way too early.

Go Gophers!!

 

[bga1]

Bottom line, this team underperformed its talent, at least in my estimation.

I hate to say it but I believe we have overestimated our own talent.

Payne- who I like has no offensive game outside of 2 feet. He needs to be able to develop range from 10 feet. I think he will but he's far from a star yet.
Garcia- a really, really good offensive player, is not physical, is not good defensively and does not see his teammates very well. He is who he is.
Christie- who is going to be a terrific player- is young, not strong, has a marginal handle and is at best an average defender at this point. Next year he will be better at all of these.
Hawkins- another guy I just love to watch- is 5-9 and a defensive mismatch for an opposing 6-2 PG. He is not a threat to drive and score.
Mitchell- gritty kid who is a good solid player but alongside Hawkins- a very small backcourt.
Fox- amazing kid, fantastic hustle, but can't shoot
Carrington- limited on offense but a nice defensive player
Ihnen- just too soft, even though he has talent.
JOJ- athletic as can be, can shoot, doesn't know where to be on the floor it seems

Bottom line: We just don't have any high end two way players. We made a whole lot more out of what we started with than Michigan State who is coached by a HOF coach.

We need to:
1. keep the core (at least players one through 5 above)
2. add a couple good rotation transfers ( big and a wing)
3. Hope Asuma is really good (I think he is)