Contract Extension for Fleck

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highwayman said:
I stopped reading the Strib many years ago. If you want info on the Gophers, the internet sources work just fine. There is absolutely no worthwhile information that is unique to the Strib. Most people simply read it out of habit.
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That's fair. Reading it online is definitely a daily habit of mine for the past 20 years. Hard one to break.
 

WriterGoph said:
I actually like Chip Scoggins quite a bit, but that's about it. Chris Hine does well on Timberwolves coverage as well.

Honestly, if the Athletic would dedicate a full time writer to Gopher sports, I'd likely stop reading the Strib completely.
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And that person had credentials, and attended all the major pressers with ability ask questions ... that would be actually probably better than anything STrib or PP put out.
 

matt said:
That’s about exactly what he will get each year. Gold is about $1795 per ounce right now which comes out to $28,720 per pound. If PJ weighs 180 pounds, his weight in gold is worth $5,169,600.
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But what's his weight in crypto??

Yeah. Think about it ...
 

MplsGopher said:
And that person had credentials, and attended all the major pressers with ability ask questions ... that would be actually probably better than anything STrib or PP put out.
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I'd expect the Athletic to dedicate someone down the stretch as long as we beat Illinois this weekend - much like they did in 2019 for the Penn State and ensuing games. It would be a smart opportunity to try and gain some new subscribers.
 

In all fairness, life is not black and white.

it's not a case where you either have to be 100% for Fleck or 100% against Fleck.

I would put myself at about 75% for Fleck. I think he does a decent job recruiting. Some of the in-game coaching and/or hiring of OC's is open to question. and I just don't go for all of the slogans, sayings, acronyms and catch-phrases.

bottom line for me - if Fleck really is "the guy" - then at some point, he needs to win a division title and at least have a chance to win the overall conference title.

I don't think the U is paying the guy $5-mill a year to be slightly better than Mason or Kill. He's being paid to be significantly better. and that comes down to wins and losses - especially wins in rivalry games.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
In all fairness, life is not black and white.

it's not a case where you either have to be 100% for Fleck or 100% against Fleck.

I would put myself at about 75% for Fleck. I think he does a decent job recruiting. Some of the in-game coaching and/or hiring of OC's is open to question. and I just don't go for all of the slogans, sayings, acronyms and catch-phrases.

bottom line for me - if Fleck really is "the guy" - then at some point, he needs to win a division title and at least have a chance to win the overall conference title.

I don't think the U is paying the guy $5-mill a year to be slightly better than Mason or Kill. He's being paid to be significantly better. and that comes down to wins and losses - especially wins in rivalry games.
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Agreed, some have really gone over the moon about the last few games for some reason. Maybe it's recency bias but the real games are upcoming and there are still large question marks with the offense and offensive coaching.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
In all fairness, life is not black and white.

it's not a case where you either have to be 100% for Fleck or 100% against Fleck.

I would put myself at about 75% for Fleck. I think he does a decent job recruiting. Some of the in-game coaching and/or hiring of OC's is open to question. and I just don't go for all of the slogans, sayings, acronyms and catch-phrases.

bottom line for me - if Fleck really is "the guy" - then at some point, he needs to win a division title and at least have a chance to win the overall conference title.

I don't think the U is paying the guy $5-mill a year to be slightly better than Mason or Kill. He's being paid to be significantly better. and that comes down to wins and losses - especially wins in rivalry games.
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Think it goes without saying that nothing is black/white and no coach is perfect. Every coach is going to have short comings or make mistakes sometimes.

I don't really agree fully with your last part though. There is more to it than just wins and loses. Don't get me wrong, he will have to win in order to keep his job but there are going to be fluctuations in that win total as the years go on.

I would argue that Fleck is already significantly better than Mason and Kill because the ceiling for Fleck's program is significantly higher than it was under those previous coaches. The reality is that for us to get to where Wisconsin and Iowa are it is going to take some time but Fleck is far closer to getting there than any of our recent previous coaches ever were.

The division landscape has shifted and we are on the verge of being yearly contenders for the West in a way that we just flat out weren't in the past. The program gets way more publicity than it ever did in the past and the vast majority of that publicity (local media hacks not included) is positive.

We are turning the corner as a program under Fleck that the previous coaches just couldn't quite turn during their time at the U. I think some don't even realize just how much of that corner we have already turned but the easiest way I can illustrate it is this way:

Since 1971 (50 years ago) when they went to at least an 11 game schedule the University of Minnesota has won 8 games 4 times (1999, 2002, 2013, 2014). We have won 9 games 1 time (2016), 10 games 1 time (2003), and 11 games 1 time (2019).

Yet a bunch have said they would be disappointed in an 8-4 season. A win total that has only been reached 7 times in the last 50 years would be a disappointing season. So under Fleck we have already reached a point in year 5 where we expect to win 8+ games every year which is awesome. He is raising the bar and will hopefully keep raising that bar as we complete the transition from also ran to contender.
 

MGGopher said:
I'm sorry, but this is one of the greatest posts in the history of GH. How did you even think to do the math here? You're next level.
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Thanks! I have good ideas occasionally.
 







WriterGoph said:
I'd expect the Athletic to dedicate someone down the stretch
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Not with Stewart Mandel's approval. According to him, we lost to Bowling Green therefor have no value.

But maybe it will get him to actually watch a Minnesota game for once this year? Doubtful
 



RogueGopher said:
Not with Stewart Mandel's approval. According to him, we lost to Bowling Green therefor have no value.

But maybe it will get him to actually watch a Minnesota game for once this year? Doubtful
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That resume happens to sit atop the Big Ten West and we are in control of our destiny. But, the wins and losses are otherwise pretty unspectacular. Losing to Ohio State close with Mo getting hurt might be our strongest entry.
I was surprised we were ranked until I realized we are in first place in the Big Ten West and only we decide if we move up or out.
 

RogueGopher said:
Not with Stewart Mandel's approval. According to him, we lost to Bowling Green therefor have no value.

But maybe it will get him to actually watch a Minnesota game for once this year? Doubtful
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I don't know if you all know this, but margin of victory against decent teams really only matters for schools like Alabama.
 

Mandel puts food on the table by getting you to click on stuff he writes.

Has no pull or say in anything.

Meh
 

MNVCGUY said:
If you can't see what is going on here or the trajectory this program is on then there really is no point trying to convince you that this was a great move for the University.

Fleck is doing some great things here, things previous coaches have failed to do over the past 50+ years of Gopher Football. And this was his way of proving his commitment to the school and the players.

Sorry you don't like the move.....you are in a very small group of posters that don't like it.
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You're forgetting the psychology of the pessimistic fan.

If Fleck is successful, EG#9 gets to enjoy that success--certainly not as much as optimistic Gopher fans, but he still comes out ahead.

If Fleck isn't successful, EG#9 can console himself that he "was right all along," thereby cutting his emotional losses

It's hedging your bets emotionally, and I used to do it too.

But no more. Someday, when I'm standing in the Rose Bowl with my family, watching the Gophers play on a Januart 1st in the future, I want to squeeze every ounce of joy out of that moment.

Ski U F'ing Mah
 

MNVCGUY said:
Think it goes without saying that nothing is black/white and no coach is perfect. Every coach is going to have short comings or make mistakes sometimes.

I don't really agree fully with your last part though. There is more to it than just wins and loses. Don't get me wrong, he will have to win in order to keep his job but there are going to be fluctuations in that win total as the years go on.

I would argue that Fleck is already significantly better than Mason and Kill because the ceiling for Fleck's program is significantly higher than it was under those previous coaches. The reality is that for us to get to where Wisconsin and Iowa are it is going to take some time but Fleck is far closer to getting there than any of our recent previous coaches ever were.

The division landscape has shifted and we are on the verge of being yearly contenders for the West in a way that we just flat out weren't in the past. The program gets way more publicity than it ever did in the past and the vast majority of that publicity (local media hacks not included) is positive.

We are turning the corner as a program under Fleck that the previous coaches just couldn't quite turn during their time at the U. I think some don't even realize just how much of that corner we have already turned but the easiest way I can illustrate it is this way:

Since 1971 (50 years ago) when they went to at least an 11 game schedule the University of Minnesota has won 8 games 4 times (1999, 2002, 2013, 2014). We have won 9 games 1 time (2016), 10 games 1 time (2003), and 11 games 1 time (2019).

Yet a bunch have said they would be disappointed in an 8-4 season. A win total that has only been reached 7 times in the last 50 years would be a disappointing season. So under Fleck we have already reached a point in year 5 where we expect to win 8+ games every year which is awesome. He is raising the bar and will hopefully keep raising that bar as we complete the transition from also ran to contender.
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Fleck was hired to elevate the recent success to the next level. He needs several regular seasons with eight or more wins strung close together to know the program has turned the corner. Take out his one great season and he comes back close to the norm of those past 50 years.

With all Fleck has said about this being the best team he has coached, it makes complete sense to me that the expectations are high this year. The team is poised to complete a really good season, they just need to go out and get it.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Fleck was hired to elevate the recent success to the next level. He needs several regular seasons with eight or more wins strung close together to know the program has turned the corner. Take out his one great season and he comes back close to the norm of those past 50 years.

With all Fleck has said about this being the best team he has coached, it makes complete sense to me that the expectations are high this year. The team is poised to complete a really good season, they just need to go out and get it.
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I disagree with your first paragraph and there is no such thing as "Take out his one great season". The only season that should be disregarded in a lot of ways is 2020 because it was such a strange year for everyone.

Sample size on Fleck it is small but any Gopher fans not excited about what they have seen so far seriously need to get themselves checked out by a professional of some kind.

2017 - Transition year, still won 5 games with a terrible QB situation.
2018 - 7 wins and a bowl game in year 2 - pretty standard year for Gopher Football historically
2019 - 11 wins....look back at our history and tell me how many other times that has happened. Oh and we were Division Co-Champs as well
2020 - Covid year - 3-4 easily could have been 5-2. Every coach deserves a mulligan for 2020, every single one. It was such a messed up year in every way.
2021 - 6 wins already, great chance to get some more and a great shot of winning the division for the second time in 4 full seasons as the head coach. Hopefully outright this time.

Program hasn't arrived yet but we are on a trajectory that has not been common around here and we have a coach that wants to be here and keep building something special.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I disagree with your first paragraph and there is no such thing as "Take out his one great season". The only season that should be disregarded in a lot of ways is 2020 because it was such a strange year for everyone.

Sample size on Fleck it is small but any Gopher fans not excited about what they have seen so far seriously need to get themselves checked out by a professional of some kind.

2017 - Transition year, still won 5 games with a terrible QB situation.
2018 - 7 wins and a bowl game in year 2 - pretty standard year for Gopher Football historically
2019 - 11 wins....look back at our history and tell me how many other times that has happened. Oh and we were Division Co-Champs as well
2020 - Covid year - 3-4 easily could have been 5-2. Every coach deserves a mulligan for 2020, every single one. It was such a messed up year in every way.
2021 - 6 wins already, great chance to get some more and a great shot of winning the division for the second time in 4 full seasons as the head coach. Hopefully outright this time.

Program hasn't arrived yet but we are on a trajectory that has not been common around here and we have a coach that wants to be here and keep building something special.
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Every program was affected by COVID. It could have been 5-2 but it wasn't. That's taking the same approach I did with 2019. He could have used an offense that was suited for Green at QB as a transition but he chose not to and instead ran that vanilla offense that many here criticized week after week. Fleck needs to produce several years strung closely together like or close to 2019 to know the corner has been turned.
 

The Gophers are no Bama or tOSU. Expect some zig-zags ala PJ Fleck's chart. It is okay as long as the trendline continues to go up.

They have four dangerous teams on the schedule. Illinois and Indiana record-wise aren't as good. Worry about an upset by either or both of these teams. Wisconsin and Iowa are going to try to knock the Gophers out of the B1G West title contention.

The drama this season is that the Gophers can finish from 1st to 5th place in the division. They need to either win out or rely on Nebraska's and Rutger's help.

It is not an emotional support monkey bite that may take down the Gophers. It is a real B1G West dog fight.
 
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PMWinSTP said:
Every program was affected by COVID. It could have been 5-2 but it wasn't. That's taking the same approach I did with 2019. He could have used an offense that was suited for Green at QB as a transition but he chose not to and instead ran that vanilla offense that many here criticized week after week. Fleck needs to produce several years strung closely together like or close to 2019 to know the corner has been turned.
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I agree the program hasn't turned the corner, but I think we are on track to do so under Fleck in a way that we never were under previous coaches.

In regards to your reply to my post - did you gloss over where I said everyone deserves a pass for 2020? It is foolish to count that season like a regular season because there was nothing regular about that season at all. Everyone was put in a really rough situation in 2020 and nobody should be putting a ton of stock in the results from that season for ANY team in the country.

As for turning the corner - If your standard for turning the corner is 8+ win seasons becoming the norm around here that is obtainable. If your standard for turning the corner is 10+ win seasons becoming the norm then you are just setting yourself up for disappointment.

To me, the standard should be making the rivalry games back into rivalry games and becoming a regular contender for the division title. We seem well on track on the second one, still work to be done on the first. Hopefully this is the year we take down both Iowa and Wisconsin.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Every program was affected by COVID. It could have been 5-2 but it wasn't. That's taking the same approach I did with 2019. He could have used an offense that was suited for Green at QB as a transition but he chose not to and instead ran that vanilla offense that many here criticized week after week. Fleck needs to produce several years strung closely together like or close to 2019 to know the corner has been turned.
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Seth Green isn't a QB. He wasn't then and he isn't today. Fleck did exactly what he should have done and established the offense the way he wanted to for the future.
 


GoForGold said:
Lurking an Iowa forum I expected them to say, "Well, this won't keep him at Minnesota anyway." No, many said the U is so desperate to have a good football program that they got suckered into offering this contract to a mediocre coach.
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Iowa fans would know what mediocrity looks like, as they see it every day on their campus. Crappy research University, and then from there tiny lack of decent parking, and from there Ryan Field like dump erector set stadium with small seats at Kinnick, and cruddy rennovations. Thry have been living the middle to mediocre dream just like the Minnesota Twins and there Cental Division championships, Iowa has, just been good enough on defense to be good to average, but always lousy offense, middling QB's. and a boring Mike Zimmer like head coach in Kirk Ferentz who will never get it done and win the Big one, stale, old ideas, mullets and clothes stuck in the 90's. They don't like it the Fleck extension at the U, because they know the U of MN is now a threat to the throne and perch they think they sit on.
 

gopherdudepart2 said:
Iowa fans would know what mediocrity looks like, as they see it every day on their campus. Crappy research University, and then from there tiny lack of decent parking, and from there Ryan Field like dump erector set stadium with small seats at Kinnick, and cruddy rennovations. Thry have been living the middle to mediocre dream just like the Minnesota Twins and there Cental Division championships, Iowa has, just been good enough on defense to be good to average, but always lousy offense, middling QB's. and a boring Mike Zimmer like head coach in Kirk Ferentz who will never get it done and win the Big one, stale, old ideas, mullets and clothes stuck in the 90's. They don't like it the Fleck extension at the U, because they know the U of MN is now a threat to the throne and perch they think they sit on.
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If only they could bring Burnsie back. (See my other thread, if you don't know who he is.)
 

MNVCGUY said:
I disagree with your first paragraph and there is no such thing as "Take out his one great season". The only season that should be disregarded in a lot of ways is 2020 because it was such a strange year for everyone.

Sample size on Fleck it is small but any Gopher fans not excited about what they have seen so far seriously need to get themselves checked out by a professional of some kind.

2017 - Transition year, still won 5 games with a terrible QB situation.
2018 - 7 wins and a bowl game in year 2 - pretty standard year for Gopher Football historically
2019 - 11 wins....look back at our history and tell me how many other times that has happened. Oh and we were Division Co-Champs as well
2020 - Covid year - 3-4 easily could have been 5-2. Every coach deserves a mulligan for 2020, every single one. It was such a messed up year in every way.
2021 - 6 wins already, great chance to get some more and a great shot of winning the division for the second time in 4 full seasons as the head coach. Hopefully outright this time.

Program hasn't arrived yet but we are on a trajectory that has not been common around here and we have a coach that wants to be here and keep building something special.
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Great post.

That said -- and absolutely no need to rehash all the bickering that has already taken place around the argument -- some people think 2017 should not have been a transition year, with the results of 2016 and the talent that returned from that team.

Whatever. Moving forward
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Sanford on Fleck’s signing.
“I even had a conversation with our young quarterback in Athan Kaliakmanis today right after the kind of news went out. I asked him if he understood how significant this is, and he has no clue. I said for you to be an incoming freshman quarterback, and to know that you're going to be playing for the same head football coach, the guy that recruited you. that believed in you, in this day and age of college football doesn't happen very often. And that's what's really exciting is that what we can do to build on this and grow from it. “
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I hope Sanford is exaggerating about Athan's supposed cluelessness. I have to believe our prized recruit would be quite aware of the significance of the extension.
 

RogueGopher said:
Not with Stewart Mandel's approval. According to him, we lost to Bowling Green therefor have no value.

But maybe it will get him to actually watch a Minnesota game for once this year? Doubtful
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But he has no complaints about Miss St. at 17. They have a better win but also have 3 losses including one to Memphis.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
In all fairness, life is not black and white.

it's not a case where you either have to be 100% for Fleck or 100% against Fleck.

I would put myself at about 75% for Fleck. I think he does a decent job recruiting. Some of the in-game coaching and/or hiring of OC's is open to question. and I just don't go for all of the slogans, sayings, acronyms and catch-phrases.

bottom line for me - if Fleck really is "the guy" - then at some point, he needs to win a division title and at least have a chance to win the overall conference title.

I don't think the U is paying the guy $5-mill a year to be slightly better than Mason or Kill. He's being paid to be significantly better. and that comes down to wins and losses - especially wins in rivalry games.
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No coach is worth 5 million a year. Meanwhile they cut out other programs
 

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