Conference Realignment Updates

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CUSA, as an aside, has morphed into a sort of allegiance of non-aligned schools. Meaning, schools who would be independent in normal times but live in a time when belonging to some sort of conference has more weight. It serves two purposes, unofficially, but is integral. First, it serves as a welcoming league for FCS schools looking to move up, and it can also serve as a feeder league for teams wanting to go for a more concrete league. Granted, its not exactly the sexiest existence a league can have, but it could be more of a purpose than some leagues have at the moment.
 

FanSinceTheFifties said:
OK. Then we're satisfied to be chronically in the lower half of the conference? To lose the majority of our games to our rivals? To pay coach after coach with no improvement in outcomes? To spend loads of money on facilities with no better results? Or does someone have a feasible plan to raise the program out of its six decade slump?
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Until something happens to fix all the NIL/paying player/transfer issues, I don't think anything major happens with Minnesota or similar programs, which, to be honest, includes the majority of the B1G. At some point there has to be a handle on this mess.
 

metrolax said:
CUSA, as an aside, has morphed into a sort of allegiance of non-aligned schools. Meaning, schools who would be independent in normal times but live in a time when belonging to some sort of conference has more weight. It serves two purposes, unofficially, but is integral. First, it serves as a welcoming league for FCS schools looking to move up, and it can also serve as a feeder league for teams wanting to go for a more concrete league. Granted, its not exactly the sexiest existence a league can have, but it could be more of a purpose than some leagues have at the moment.
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Yeah, it's the league that will take basically anyone in order to stay afloat. Hence NMSU, who nobody wanted, in part because they have a historically awful football program (the Kill era aside) and Liberty, who nobody wanted because of who owns/runs the school and the politics involved. I wonder if Idaho had stayed FBS if they wouldn't have ended up there as well. For a long time, it seemed that the Sun Belt was the bottom feeder conference, but it turned out they actually play some good football there.
 

swede2 said:
Hawaii has signed a grant of rights with the MWC through 2032 for FB so that option is off the table for the PAC-7. I think Sac St would pay an entrance fee if it would get a PAC invite. NDSU maybe too. Beyond that, the options are getting very small for the PAC-7 and they are going to have to dig deep and part with a good chunk of that "war chest" it ended up with when the P4 programs left the conference.

This morning the report is that MWC is putting the hard sell on Texas State. I'm sure right now Texas State admin is on the phone with Sun Belt, AAC, MWC, C-USA and PAC taking bids.

This is weird, wild stuff.
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But Hawaii is still football only for now. So both the MWC and the PAC need two additional full members. I still think we see UTEP, NMSU, Texas State as most likely to move, but then there still needs to be one more move to fill both conferences unless Hawaii becomes a full member. I can't remember - did UTSA say they're not going anywhere?
 

Right except that the PAC only needs one more member. The point with Hawaii is that because of the GOR, PAC doesn't have the HI fallback option. The PAC play now seems to be litigation with MWC, diminish or eliminate the MWC "war chest" and thereby free up UNLV when MWC can't payup.

No idea on UTSA. I can't keep it all straight. I assume they are off the table when we're talking NIU and Toledo.
disco said:
But Hawaii is still football only for now. So both the MWC and the PAC need two additional full members. I still think we see UTEP, NMSU, Texas State as most likely to move, but then there still needs to be one more move to fill both conferences unless Hawaii becomes a full member. I can't remember - did UTSA say they're not going anywhere?
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MWC and UTEP are in "serious" talks according the ESPN; and the MWC has extended a verbal offer to Texas State, who ESPN reports is also of interest to the PAC. Does TX State somehow get on televisions in both San Antonio and Austin? Both conferences really seem to want into Texas. The assumption is that with Texas State, the highest bidder will win.

Meanwhile, Sacramento State has, in addition to announcing new stadium plans last week, announced it has raised $35 million for NIL. It really wants into the PAC.

The Wyoming AD is adamant that of MWC breaks up, his program won't drop to FCS. He let slip that as for MWC expansion/retraction, there are FCS schools "on the board." FCS has to be a very last option judging by the MWC jockeying.

UPDATE: UTEP to MWC announcement made. MWC in deep discussions with recent DII to FBS school Tarleton (Tx) State (heads are exploding in North Fargo). Gonzaga to PAC (with discussions with St Mary's and Grand Canton ongoing). PAC won't be a bad hoops conference. Things move fast in the collegiate sports equivalent of Aldi.
 
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swede2 said:
MWC and UTEP are in "serious" talks according the ESPN; and the MWC has extended a verbal offer to Texas State, who ESPN reports is also of interest to the PAC. Does TX State somehow get on televisions in both San Antonio and Austin? Both conferences really seem to want into Texas. The assumption is that with Texas State, the highest bidder will win.

Meanwhile, Sacramento State has, in addition to announcing new stadium plans last week, announced it has raised $35 million for NIL. It really wants into the PAC.

The Wyoming AD is adamant that of MWC breaks up, his program won't drop to FCS. He let slip that as for MWC expansion/retraction, there are FCS schools "on the board." FCS has to be a very last option judging by the MWC jockeying.

UPDATE: UTEP to MWC announcement expected soon. MWC in deep discussions with recent DII to FBS school Tarleton (Tx) State (heads are exploding in North Fargo). Gonzaga to PAC (with discussions with St Mary's and Grand Canton ongoing). PAC won't be a bad hoops conference. Things move fast in the collegiate sports equivalent of Aldi.
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The folks over at Bisonville are apoplectic over the Tarleton rumors.

That said, they are rumors. I've read that it's possible the Tarleton stuff is being floated to push Texas State into making a decision quickly.

And poor NM state. The only team close to them (UTEP) is leaving for the MW and it doesn't look like they're going to get an invite. How awful must the relationship between UNM and NMSU be?
 
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obviously, there is a lot going on behind the scenes.

but based on the public chatter, it sure seems as if the MWC is being a lot of aggressive in trying to get back to 8 football schools. the PAC, meanwhile, seems to be focusing on basketball schools. don't get me wrong - they could wind up with a very nice hoops conference - but in order to have that coveted "conference' status, the PAC needs to get to 8 football schools.
 



short ornery norwegian said:
obviously, there is a lot going on behind the scenes.

but based on the public chatter, it sure seems as if the MWC is being a lot of aggressive in trying to get back to 8 football schools. the PAC, meanwhile, seems to be focusing on basketball schools. don't get me wrong - they could wind up with a very nice hoops conference - but in order to have that coveted "conference' status, the PAC needs to get to 8 football schools.
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St. Marys and GCU as non-football members have been discussed regarding the PAC. If that happens, you have an elite hoops conference.
 

And it appears Texas State has turned down the Mountain West.
 


Brett McMurphy Tweets out the following:

Pac-12 still needs 1 more full member, but league won’t be adding another school until media rights evaluation is completed, sources told @ActionNetworkHQ.

This process could take anywhere from 2 weeks to 3 months. Several schools continue to reach out w/interest in joining Pac-12, but league is currently not negotiating w/any schools about membership, sources said.

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this makes sense to me. If a school is even considering a change in conferences, the first question would be "how much will we receive in TV revenue?" If the PAC can't answer that question, there's not a lot of incentive to make the change. that is allegedly the reason why the AAC schools balked at making the move.
 



It seems like the obvious choices for the future football PAC would be #1 UNLV and/or #2 Texas State based on school and market size. Neither of these schools, nor any of the other new PAC members, are anywhere near the academic level of the former PAC schools so that factor probably doesn't matter much.
 

Panthadad2 said:
I fail to see why the Mountain West would be any upgrade to the Sun Belt for Texas State.
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The only difference on paper really, is that the MWC still has a few flagship schools for their respective states (Nevada/UNLV, New Mexico, Wyoming, Hawaii) as opposed to the directionals and other minor schools in the Sun Belt.
 

Panthadad2 said:
It seems like the obvious choices for the future football PAC would be #1 UNLV and/or #2 Texas State based on school and market size. Neither of these schools, nor any of the other new PAC members, are anywhere near the academic level of the former PAC schools so that factor probably doesn't matter much.
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UNLV has signed a GOR with MWC. Not available to the PAC.
 

This is interesting, and explains a reason why NM State hasn't been seriously considered for the MW.

For a long time, NMSU's use of what amounts to an on-campus junior college (DABCC) to get ineligible players eligible for a year (many of the times NMSU basketball players redshirted for a year before playing had this) was an issue. Not allowed in just about any conference... now there are issues with budget/investment into the program and what value would a TV executive place on the media market, of which there are answers presented to the league office all the time from TV partners at CBS Sports and Fox Sports. The message I've been told time and time again from people NOT at UNM is that the league just doesn't see the value of adding them. This all may change that, though. MW still needs another fulltime member.

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They both (PAC-12 and MWC) need another full football member?

There is Hawaii, which is in the Big West for most sports.
 

GopherGrit said:
They both (PAC-12 and MWC) need another full football member?

There is Hawaii, which is in the Big West for most sports.
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And Hawaii officially has decided to become a full member of the Mountain West, which makes the MWC membership complete as an all sports conference. Rumor has it the MWC would still be interested in NIU and Toledo which would get them into five time zones. But they don't HAVE to expand farther. Hawaii makes them whole. So now what happens with the PAC.

(also, I must check Bisonville to see if the NDSU fans are going to jump from the cliff now.)
 

disco said:
And Hawaii officially has decided to become a full member of the Mountain West, which makes the MWC membership complete as an all sports conference. Rumor has it the MWC would still be interested in NIU and Toledo which would get them into five time zones. But they don't HAVE to expand farther. Hawaii makes them whole. So now what happens with the PAC.

(also, I must check Bisonville to see if the NDSU fans are going to jump from the cliff now.)
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If the powers that be don't want more FCS move-ups (not saying that is true, just saying if), then I don't think NDSU fans have much to complain about.

If the rumor about Tarleston (or whatever FCS school in Texas) happened ... that could be bad
 

But now who is the PAC going to get for their final full football member?

New Mexico State is the only existing FBS team left in the Pacific or Mountain timezones? Do the American Athletic teams have a grant of rights? Purely on academics, Rice might make some sense, though UTSA maybe makes slightly more sense? North Texas there too.


Are they really thinking Sac State?

I do think their new plans look nice and all, but man. Isn't their basketball gym the size of a high school's? I guess they can play (major) PAC games in the new NBA arena?

 
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GopherGrit said:
But now who is the PAC going to get for their final full football member?

New Mexico State is the only existing FBS team left in the Pacific or Mountain timezones? Do the American Athletic teams have a grant of rights? Purely on academics, Rice might make some sense, though UTSA maybe makes slightly more sense? North Texas there too.
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I think NMSU (who won an exciting 2OT game last night) is the last FBS team in the west not tied to one of the better conferences - every conference is better than CUSA.

Rice would make some sense, yes. What would make more sense would be Stanford and Cal coming back to where they should be and not being so snotty about being in a conference with the San Diego States of the the world.
 

disco said:
I think NMSU (who won an exciting 2OT game last night) is the last FBS team in the west not tied to one of the better conferences - every conference is better than CUSA.

Rice would make some sense, yes. What would make more sense would be Stanford and Cal coming back to where they should be and not being so snotty about being in a conference with the San Diego States of the the world.
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Agreed 100%

I can't see schools like that "needing" all the "extra" TV money that they're planning on getting from being in the ACC, minus the extra travel expenses. That has to take a toll on student-athlete wellbeing too.

My wild guess is that they won't undo that now that they're in, probably signed up for the ACC grant of rights, and went through all the trouble to do it.
 

GopherGrit said:
If the powers that be don't want more FCS move-ups (not saying that is true, just saying if), then I don't think NDSU fans have much to complain about.

If the rumor about Tarleston (or whatever FCS school in Texas) happened ... that could be bad
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The Dakota schools and Montana schools, for all their geographic disadvantages, are better options than another non-descript southern state university like Tarleton.
 

FanSinceTheFifties said:
OK. Then we're satisfied to be chronically in the lower half of the conference? To lose the majority of our games to our rivals? To pay coach after coach with no improvement in outcomes? To spend loads of money on facilities with no better results? Or does someone have a feasible plan to raise the program out of its six decade slump?
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The Big Ten is about more than sports. You want them to give up billions in research grants to satisfy your need to win football games?
 

Dave H said:
The Big Ten is about more than sports. You want them to give up billions in research grants to satisfy your need to win football games?
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Good point. No, I don't want the U to lose the BiG's funding. And I don't expect conference championships in FB. I agree the money is more important than winning.
 

disco said:
The Dakota schools and Montana schools, for all their geographic disadvantages, are better options than another non-descript southern state university like Tarleton.
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It really seems like the best 3-4 FCS conferences are better overall at football than the worst 2-3 FBS conferences at this point.
 

Goldmember said:
It really seems like the best 3-4 FCS conferences are better overall at football than the worst 2-3 FBS conferences at this point.
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I think that was the case maybe 10-15 years ago, but FCS has really declined a lot. So many of the old powerhouses have moved up at this point. The MVFC (Dakota schools and UNI) and the Big Sky (Montana schools, Idaho, EWU) are the cream of the crop at this point with a severe dropoff after that. It would be a lot better if the Ivies and the HBCU conferences participated in the playoffs.
 

disco said:
I think that was the case maybe 10-15 years ago, but FCS has really declined a lot. So many of the old powerhouses have moved up at this point. The MVFC (Dakota schools and UNI) and the Big Sky (Montana schools, Idaho, EWU) are the cream of the crop at this point with a severe dropoff after that. It would be a lot better if the Ivies and the HBCU conferences participated in the playoffs.
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I agree the playoff competition would be improved with the addition of the Ivies and the HBCU conferences. I assume the Ivies do not play due to academic reasons, but why don't the HBCU conferences participate? I would think that would increase the interest in those programs, especially if you can get some powerhouse playoff programs going.
 

AZGopher8 said:
I agree the playoff competition would be improved with the addition of the Ivies and the HBCU conferences. I assume the Ivies do not play due to academic reasons, but why don't the HBCU conferences participate? I would think that would increase the interest in those programs, especially if you can get some powerhouse playoff programs going.
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The Ivies are completely full of BS in claiming that academics aren't the reason they don't participate in the post-season. They do in basketball, hockey, and lots of other sports. They're just being self-righteous.

It's two HBCU conferences that don't participate - kind of. The SWAC and the MEAC. It's because the champions of each conference play in the Celebration Bowl, which I believe takes place after the FCS playoffs start. There are HBCU schools not in those conferences that take part in the playoffs, and there have been occasions where the committee has taken other schools from those conferences.
 

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