Chip Scoggins: Gophers have a quarterback quandary

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The question isn't "Is Leidner a completely awful quarterback?" He obviously isn't - I don't even think his detractors think that. He does have the ability to provide just enough offense to take the games our defense puts in reach. The question we need to be asking is "Do the Gophers need to improve at the quarterback position?" If we want to win the conference someday, the answer is undoubtedly "Yes."

Forget Week 1 completion percentages, Boykin is obviously a better quarterback than Leidner. If you don't think that, I'm not sure what to say to you. He has what it takes to win the Big 12 and maybe even the national title. Leidner's our best option this year, but I don't think even his defenders think he'll ever be a quarterback of that caliber. Unless we think 8-9 wins is the mountaintop for this program, the fans are absolutely right to demand more out of the quarterback position.

Hopefully, Croft can be that guy in time. Right now, he's a freshman. Until then, there's no reason Leidner can't take the West division. This says more about the West than it does about Leidner, but it is nonetheless true.
 

Perception

killme said:
I'll have to look it up, but pretty sure Mitch did not "give away one fumble a game..." Does he need to do a better job of protecting the ball? YES! So do all the guys who touch the ball. Ball Security=Job Security.
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It only seems like Mitch fumbles once a game. https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/player-stat/fumbles?season_id=112 Of those 9 he only lost 4. But David Cobb lost 5 ... were any of those read option poor exchanges credited to Cobb or did Cobb really lose 5 fumbles? Talk about perception...I wouldn't have realized that...I know he had the horrible one on the road. So Minnesota was among the national leaders with Cobb at 5 and Mitch at 4 fumbles lost.

We have a RB and QB who each lost one in game one, 2015. We have to get better at this phase, obviously.
 

I was at the game last Thursday and just finished watching a replay of the broadcast, something jumped out to me. At the game, it felt like Leidner was terrible (along with some bad OL play). However, watching the broadcast, I noticed that Leidner actually performed well. Started the game 3-3 running an effective no-huddle. If the OL wasn't banged up (or if they had moved Pirsig to LT to start), they could have done much more offensively. The last scoring drive, Leidner was 5-5. Good passes, too, to Wolitarsky, Lingen, Still, and the nice TD pass to Maye.

He looks slow when he runs the ball, but when they were in rhythm, his passing wasn't as bad as advertised.
 

60's Guy said:
It only seems like Mitch fumbles once a game. https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/player-stat/fumbles?season_id=112 Of those 9 he only lost 4. But David Cobb lost 5 ... were any of those read option poor exchanges credited to Cobb or did Cobb really lose 5 fumbles? Talk about perception...I wouldn't have realized that...I know he had the horrible one on the road. So Minnesota was among the national leaders with Cobb at 5 and Mitch at 4 fumbles lost.

We have a RB and QB who each lost one in game one, 2015. We have to get better at this phase, obviously.
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We agree it needs to be better. But, as bottlebass pointed out, one guy makes a play and the outcome could be different. Sometimes you have to make an extraordinary play to pick up your teammate who made an error. In the many months since our last game, a lot of guys may have dwelled on the magnitude of playing #2 and didn't want to be the guy to mess up. Of the 12 guys making their debuts, many made a sterling play. Our overall speed and talent has improved and I believe we're going to enjoy watching some play-making, difference makers emerge.
 

BBQ Platypus said:
The question isn't "Is Leidner a completely awful quarterback?" He obviously isn't - I don't even think his detractors think that. He does have the ability to provide just enough offense to take the games our defense puts in reach. The question we need to be asking is "Do the Gophers need to improve at the quarterback position?" If we want to win the conference someday, the answer is undoubtedly "Yes."

Forget Week 1 completion percentages, Boykin is obviously a better quarterback than Leidner. If you don't think that, I'm not sure what to say to you. He has what it takes to win the Big 12 and maybe even the national title. Leidner's our best option this year, but I don't think even his defenders think he'll ever be a quarterback of that caliber. Unless we think 8-9 wins is the mountaintop for this program, the fans are absolutely right to demand more out of the quarterback position.

Hopefully, Croft can be that guy in time. Right now, he's a freshman. Until then, there's no reason Leidner can't take the West division. This says more about the West than it does about Leidner, but it is nonetheless true.
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You need to look through the forum. There are multiple people saying he is completely awful.

I think virtually everyone does think our QB play needs to get better. You can think he played okay on Thursday and still think he needs to get better.
 


GophersInIowa said:
You need to look through the forum. There are multiple people saying he is completely awful.

I think virtually everyone does think our QB play needs to get better. You can think he played okay on Thursday and still think he needs to get better.
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It's a sports forum. People say stuff, and there's no barrier to entry so you'll find some ****posts. But it's clear that improvement is needed. What marks the difference between a Leidner critic and a Leidner defender is whether you think it's Leidner who will be doing the improving, or the Gophers who will be making the upgrade to someone else.

I lean toward the latter. I think Leidner's about as good as he's ever going to get. He is what he is, and he seems like a good kid. But he's not a true contender's quarterback.
 

BBQ Platypus said:
I think Leidner's about as good as he's ever going to get. He is what he is, and he seems like a good kid. But he's not a true contender's quarterback.
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We'll see. I believe he's already better than last year and we'll see noticeable improvement. Let's save this for Schnauzer's " YOU ARE WRONG and so am I" thread and check in mid-way through the year and see which one of us posts there.
 

Am I the only person on here that is always a little surprised and relieved when a Leidner pass ends up in our receiver's hands?

I was at the game Thursday and it felt just like last year's Mitch. Every time he had a keeper and banged into the D-Line it felt like banging my head against a wall. I re-watched the game last night and if you think he had a good game- you are crazy. He did NOT keep us in the game. That lies solely on the Defense. We were in that game in the 4th Quarter despite his play. His greatest attribute is that he can get the snot knocked out of him and still manage to stay in the game. After another off-season we have to hear about the Manning Camps and the Devotion to his craft- I'm sick of it. I want someone that can hit a receiver downfield in stride. Right now- it feels like any completion over 10 yards is more exciting than a Touchdown. Leidner apologists will realize how wrong they are when he's gone.
 

DougMN said:
Am I the only person on here that is always a little surprised and relieved when a Leidner pass ends up in our receiver's hands?

I was at the game Thursday and it felt just like last year's Mitch. Every time he had a keeper and banged into the D-Line it felt like banging my head against a wall. I re-watched the game last night and if you think he had a good game- you are crazy. He did NOT keep us in the game. That lies solely on the Defense. We were in that game in the 4th Quarter despite his play. His greatest attribute is that he can get the snot knocked out of him and still manage to stay in the game. After another off-season we have to hear about the Manning Camps and the Devotion to his craft- I'm sick of it. I want someone that can hit a receiver downfield in stride. Right now- it feels like any completion over 10 yards is more exciting than a Touchdown. Leidner apologists will realize how wrong they are when he's gone.
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Where and when has anyone said he had a good game? If recognizing the fact that Leidner is easily the best QB on the roster makes me a "Leidner apologist", so be it. It's not his fault that he's easily the best QB on the roster.
 



dpodoll68 said:
Where and when has anyone said he had a good game? If recognizing the fact that Leidner is easily the best QB on the roster makes me a "Leidner apologist", so be it. It's not his fault that he's easily the best QB on the roster.
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Read through the previous 8 pages and it looks to me like plenty of folks thought his game was adequate. If you think he's easily the best QB on the roster, your opinion of the others must be next to nothing. Right now, we may not have a better option. Halfway through this year, we may. I can't tell you how wrong I would like to be....more than anything I would love to be wrong about this. Our offense is talking a big step back this year. Our O-line needs time to get healthy and gel, and that will certainly help, but our QB is going to be exposed without a star RB and TE (who made many an uncatchable).
 

DougMN said:
Read through the previous 8 pages and it looks to me like plenty of folks thought his game was adequate. If you think he's easily the best QB on the roster, your opinion of the others must be next to nothing. Right now, we may not have a better option. Halfway through this year, we may. I can't tell you how wrong I would like to be....more than anything I would love to be wrong about this. Our offense is talking a big step back this year. Our O-line needs time to get healthy and gel, and that will certainly help, but our QB is going to be exposed without a star RB and TE (who made many an uncatchable).
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Adequate does not equal good. It's impossible to have a conversation when people exaggerate or plain make things up. I don't think he's easily the best, I know he is. The rest of the QBs are not good enough or too young.
 

Ok Mr perra

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 

boatloads of confidence

so, some of you bought the offseason arglebargle. that's on you.
 



DougMN said:
Read through the previous 8 pages and it looks to me like plenty of folks thought his game was adequate. If you think he's easily the best QB on the roster, your opinion of the others must be next to nothing. Right now, we may not have a better option. Halfway through this year, we may. I can't tell you how wrong I would like to be....more than anything I would love to be wrong about this. Our offense is talking a big step back this year. Our O-line needs time to get healthy and gel, and that will certainly help, but our QB is going to be exposed without a star RB and TE (who made many an uncatchable).
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I agree with Dpodoll. Once again, this is not an argument between those who think Leidner is horrible (such as yourself), and those who think he's good/great. The flip side to your argument, and the only one I (and many others) have been trying to make, is that he is not horrible. That does not make us Leidner apologists. I have no doubt that quarterbacks much better than Leidner will follow at some point for the Gophers. It's just not going to happen next week, or anytime soon, which reduces your anti-Leidner posts into pointless whining. Not that there's anything wrong with pointless whining, as that's why I'm currently whining about your whining.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Adequate does not equal good. It's impossible to have a conversation when people exaggerate or plain make things up. I don't think he's easily the best, I know he is. The rest of the QBs are not good enough or too young.
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I think this ventures into the area of being an unverifiable opinion. I do not recall any coach stating he is easily the best. Link?
 

DougMN said:
Am I the only person on here that is always a little surprised and relieved when a Leidner pass ends up in our receiver's hands?

I was at the game Thursday and it felt just like last year's Mitch. Every time he had a keeper and banged into the D-Line it felt like banging my head against a wall. I re-watched the game last night and if you think he had a good game- you are crazy. He did NOT keep us in the game. That lies solely on the Defense. We were in that game in the 4th Quarter despite his play. His greatest attribute is that he can get the snot knocked out of him and still manage to stay in the game. After another off-season we have to hear about the Manning Camps and the Devotion to his craft- I'm sick of it. I want someone that can hit a receiver downfield in stride. Right now- it feels like any completion over 10 yards is more exciting than a Touchdown. Leidner apologists will realize how wrong they are when he's gone.
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Just because you don't think he's the worst QB in the world or that he played terrible Thursday night, does not mean you think he is a great QB either. People seem to think that if you defend him in anyway, then you think he is a superstar. I don't see a whole lot of people saying he is a great QB.
 

I think my favorite poster was something like give every quarterback a series. #YOLO.
 

Spoofin said:
Hackenberg hasn't looked like a five star since his FR year.
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No he hasn't. I'm sure he's probably pining for Bill O'Brien, because James Franklin's offense does not seem to fit him at all, such that he doesn't even look like the same QB. He's got the physical tools to be touted as being a possible #1 overall pick, but the numbers last season (55% completion, 12 TD-15 INT) and the awful outing on Saturday seem to show a quarterback in a state of clear and deep regression. Franklin has vowed to get 'much more involved' with the offense after last week's disaster. Whether that extra involvement proves to be of benefit to Hackenberg, I don't know, but given his struggles under Franklin so far, it's probably reasonable to doubt.
 

I think I was overly optimistic going into this season that Leidner would improve from last year. He's never going to be a good or even decent passer. That being said- I would take him over Adam Weber any day. For this program to make the jump into the next level, someone else is going to have to be playing QB.
 

DougMN said:
I think I was overly optimistic going into this season that Leidner would improve from last year. He's never going to be a good or even decent passer. That being said- I would take him over Adam Weber any day. For this program to make the jump into the next level, someone else is going to have to be playing QB.
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3,2,1...
 

Seany said:
No he hasn't. I'm sure he's probably pining for Bill O'Brien, because James Franklin's offense does not seem to fit him at all, such that he doesn't even look like the same QB. He's got the physical tools to be touted as being a possible #1 overall pick, but the numbers last season (55% completion, 12 TD-15 INT) and the awful outing on Saturday seem to show a quarterback in a state of clear and deep regression. Franklin has vowed to get 'much more involved' with the offense after last week's disaster. Whether that extra involvement proves to be of benefit to Hackenberg, I don't know, but given his struggles under Franklin so far, it's probably reasonable to doubt.
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<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

DougMN said:
I think I was overly optimistic going into this season that Leidner would improve from last year. He's never going to be a good or even decent passer. That being said- I would take him over Adam Weber any day. For this program to make the jump into the next level, someone else is going to have to be playing QB.
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How can you blame ML7 for anything when AWeb is one of his coaches!?! Ps. Sid is quicker on his feet than Hackenberg and I would take Weber over him.
 

DougMN said:
I think I was overly optimistic going into this season that Leidner would improve from last year. He's never going to be a good or even decent passer. That being said- I would take him over Adam Weber any day. For this program to make the jump into the next level, someone else is going to have to be playing QB.
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Wow. This post was just dumb. :banghead:
 

DougMN said:
I think I was overly optimistic going into this season that Leidner would improve from last year. He's never going to be a good or even decent passer. That being said I would take him over Adam Weber any day

Thou doest damn him with faint praise
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