Chip Scoggins: Gophers have a quarterback quandary

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60's Guy said:
"Nobody denies we need more consistent quarterback play" IF that were true I wouldn't have posted on the topic.

"poor o-line play"
Well, the coach thought thought the line played pretty well and I'd agree with him. Did the line play worse Thursday than they did last year? There are breakdowns every game...they are magnified when the quarterback fumbles. Patch quilt line I'd say played well.
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But you are suggesting that we have some better option. How the heck would you know......coach?

Did Coach Kill say that anyone played particularly poorly? You say that you trust Kill when he says that the line played well. How about when Kill decides that Leidner is our best option at QB. Don't trust him?
 

To preface, I like Mitch and believe he's the best option right now.

That said, when discussing the passing stats it seemed to me he was given(on average) safer, short passes.. This helps the completion percentage. Last year the passing plays largely consisted of forcing the ball down the seam, more slow developing plays, etc

The TCU D, to me, had an noticeable dropoff from last season, and more opportunity was there. This had to disappoint the TCU fans that thought they would be better by starting freshmen.

The offensive line, outside of Lauer, played better than last year vs TCU. I thought the interior line did some nice things. Whether that's because they are better or TCU is worse I dont know. The first quarter in particular was disastrous for pass protection.
 

GopherHomer said:
Mitch got us within 6 of possibly the best team in existense.
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One of the most preposterous statements I've ever heard. Our defense gave us a chance to win this game. Not having a QB who can accurately throw ball down the field kept us from be able to realistically win it.
 

Du Hasst

"You Hate (Mitch)"

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vYw67f8evWo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

MinneStoa said:
I agree in general that Cook is a good example of what can hope that Leidner Would be
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Cook was highly rated coming out of HS and will be a first or second rd pick in draft. Leidner should have never been offered by a P5 school and is only starting here because of the staff repeatedly screwing up the QB recruiting the last 3 years.

An absolutely terrible comparison of what we "hope" Leidner can be.
 



This whole discussion is silly. I will make it simple for all...

Is ML7 great? No. However, if you think he is the problem and/or that he should be benched then you are wrong. Plain and simple.
 

Let's review Mitch's stats from Thursday vs. TCU vs. the 3 best defenses he faced last year: TCU, OSU, Wisconsin-

TCU (2014): 12/26, 151 yards, 0 TD, 3 INTs, 4 yards rushing
OSU (2014): 7/19, 85 yards, 0 TD, 2 INTs, 56 yards rushing
Wisky (2014): 5/18, 95 yards, 0 TD, 0 INTs, 54 yards rushing with 2 rushing TDs.

So against the top 3 defenses in 2014, he was a combined 24/63 (38%), 0 TD, 5 INTs.

TCU (2015): 19/35 (54%), 197 yards, 1 TD, 0 INTs, 23 yards rushing

And all this w/o Maxx, the greatest pass catching TE in Gopher history. So it's pretty clear he has improved.

I wish Mitch was better. But he was atrociously bad against top defenses last year. Thursday he was average. We'll know a lot more after Colorado St.
 

Mitcheroo is not a very good BCS quarterback. many of us knew this 2 years ago....oh well.
 



John Galt said:
Let's review Mitch's stats from Thursday vs. TCU vs. the 3 best defenses he faced last year: TCU, OSU, Wisconsin-

TCU (2014): 12/26, 151 yards, 0 TD, 3 INTs, 4 yards rushing
OSU (2014): 7/19, 85 yards, 0 TD, 2 INTs, 56 yards rushing
Wisky (2014): 5/18, 95 yards, 0 TD, 0 INTs, 54 yards rushing with 2 rushing TDs.

So against the top 3 defenses in 2014, he was a combined 24/63 (38%), 0 TD, 5 INTs.

TCU (2015): 19/35 (54%), 197 yards, 1 TD, 0 INTs, 23 yards rushing

And all this w/o Maxx, the greatest pass catching TE in Gopher history. So it's pretty clear he has improved.

I wish Mitch was better. But he was atrociously bad against top defenses last year. Thursday he was average. We'll know a lot more after Colorado St.
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Mitch played well enough on Thurs to win. Period.
Scratch Rodericks fumble, which was not on Mitch, Lauer's ole' which was not on Mitch, and add the 5 or so drops his receivers blew and we are all raving about his performance.
It's a team game, our team lost to a top 2 team, let's hope we clean up the drops and fumbles, and heal up.
 

CentralGopher said:
Strevler played one or two snaps due to a hard hit and ml came back in right after. Obviously Jerry thought ml had the better camp and is a better qb right now or there would already have been a different starter. Might be a little early to call it a quandary.
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I love the argument that if the coach starts a guy, then he's automatically the best player at that position. So Belichick must be an idiot for starting Drew Bledsoe ahead of Brady in 2001. How about Miller Huggins starting Wally Pipp ahead of Lou Gehrig?
Alabama played a few qb's against Wisconsin. Why can't we at least give Perra one series?

(At least Jerry admitted he shouldn't have started Lauer.
 

Halsey Hall said:
I love the argument that if the coach starts a guy, then he's automatically the best player at that position. So Belichick must be an idiot for starting Drew Bledsoe ahead of Brady in 2001. How about Miller Huggins starting Wally Pipp ahead of Lou Gehrig?
Alabama played a few qb's against Wisconsin. Why can't we at least give Perra one series?

(At least Jerry admitted he shouldn't have started Lauer.
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I hear that Croft moms best friend said he is the best player on the Gophers.

Go Gophers
 

John Galt said:
Let's review Mitch's stats from Thursday vs. TCU vs. the 3 best defenses he faced last year: TCU, OSU, Wisconsin-

TCU (2014): 12/26, 151 yards, 0 TD, 3 INTs, 4 yards rushing
OSU (2014): 7/19, 85 yards, 0 TD, 2 INTs, 56 yards rushing
Wisky (2014): 5/18, 95 yards, 0 TD, 0 INTs, 54 yards rushing with 2 rushing TDs.

So against the top 3 defenses in 2014, he was a combined 24/63 (38%), 0 TD, 5 INTs.

TCU (2015): 19/35 (54%), 197 yards, 1 TD, 0 INTs, 23 yards rushing

And all this w/o Maxx, the greatest pass catching TE in Gopher history. So it's pretty clear he has improved.

I wish Mitch was better. But he was atrociously bad against top defenses last year. Thursday he was average. We'll know a lot more after Colorado St.
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The TD, and a good chunk of yards, came on a drive in the late 4th quarter when the Frogs had started mailing it in. They were playing to not get hurt at that point. That can't be denied if you watched the game. No resistance.

Anther thing of note: TCU started a OLB who had not played in a game since his junior year of HS. They apparently have some concerns in the secondary (per Frogs writer on Burns podcast). They may have one of the best DLs in the country, if not the best (so be careful when writing off the O-line) but they don't have much else, in my opinion. There was a lot to expose there in the passing game that wasn't.

Im not sure either side has it right here. Mitch is not good. Heck of a guy, but a bad QB when it come to throwing ball (an important function). At the same time, he isn't going anywhere now, so why argue a moot point? We will never find out what this year's team could do with another QB.

My thoughts on the situation: I don't really understand why it wasn't addressed at some point this offseason. You can't tell me there wasn't a QB somewhere in country with college eligibility--whether high school, JUCO, or Grad--that would upgrade the position and love the opportunity to play for a B1G team with a real shot to play in the title game. At the very least, bring in some real competition, instead of handing him the job outright after the Citrus Bowl.
 



TheBulldog said:
The TD, and a good chunk of yards, came on a drive in the late 4th quarter when the Frogs had started mailing it in. They were playing to not get hurt at that point. That can't be denied if you watched the game. No resistance.

Anther thing of note: TCU started a OLB who had not played in a game since his junior year of HS. They apparently have some concerns in the secondary (per Frogs writer on Burns podcast). They may have one of the best DLs in the country, if not the best (so be careful when writing off the O-line) but they don't have much else, in my opinion. There was a lot to expose there in the passing game that wasn't.

Im not sure either side has it right here. Mitch is not good. Heck of a guy, but a bad QB when it come to throwing ball (an important function). At the same time, he isn't going anywhere now, so why argue a moot point? We will never find out what this year's team could do with another QB.

My thoughts on the situation: I don't really understand why it wasn't addressed at some point this offseason. You can't tell me there wasn't a QB somewhere in country with college eligibility--whether high school, JUCO, or Grad--that would upgrade the position and love the opportunity to play for a B1G team with a real shot to play in the title game. At the very least, bring in some real competition, instead of handing him the job outright after the Citrus Bowl.
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Yes, his name is Demry Croft.
 


There were 29 JUCO QBs who committed to FBS and FCS schools this past signing period- only 5 to Power 5 conferences. Only 1 is starting. Also doesn't appear to be dependable way to garner a QB.


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TheBulldog said:
The TD, and a good chunk of yards, came on a drive in the late 4th quarter when the Frogs had started mailing it in. They were playing to not get hurt at that point. That can't be denied if you watched the game. No resistance.
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You obviously did not watch the game, then. There were no signs of "mailing it in".

And if Patterson were mailing it in, he should be in some serious hot water. What kind of coach tells his players to back off when it's a two possession game with a ton of time left?

What a joke.
 

Great Plains Gopher said:
QB is the missing link in getting this team to the B10 championship - but passing has been a problem for years (remember the controversy over Weber?). It has been a long time since we've had a decent passing QB. Watching the better ones over the weekend (hitting 75% to 95%) was instructive.
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Have we ever really had a great passing QB? It seems kind of strange, but I don't think we have had one of those in my lifetime, nor have we had any quarterbacks drafted into the NFL (drafted as quarterbacks at least). Mike Hohensee was pretty good as a passer, but the best he could do was be drafted into the USFL. He didn't even receive a sniff from the NFL. Beyond that, Sauter, Weber, Cupito, Khaliq, Cockerham, Fleetwood, Nelson...each of whom had their scattered moments, but none of them ever even approached 'greatness' as collegiate passers. I consider the greatest (by FAR) Gophers quarterback in my lifetime to be Rickey Foggie, and that was due as much to his legs as to his arm.

Overall though, so far as passing attacks go, a pretty inauspicious history of that at Minnesota over the past 40+ years.

Over that period, I'd probably rank them as:
1. Foggie
2. Sauter/Weber
3. Cupito/Hohensee
and then the rest in whatever order, with Leidner's final ranking still TBD.
 

If you want to see some angry fans, head over to the Nittany Lions sites. Ten sacks, 55 yards in the last 52 min in the loss to Temple

They are ready to ride their offensive coaches out of town on a rail. Only now do they understand Franklin is a used car salesman. This could be Michigan, only worse. Hackenberg wasted is the central theme. The fans are livid. This site is tame..
 

TheBulldog said:
The TD, and a good chunk of yards, came on a drive in the late 4th quarter when the Frogs had started mailing it in. They were playing to not get hurt at that point. That can't be denied if you watched the game.
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Obviously the TCU coach didn't get your memo because he was blowing a gasket on the sideline and surely was relieved after time ran out.

Ridiculous, TCU wants to play in the final four and they need to blow out everyone they can just to get a chance.


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I think people are getting way too caught up in defending their positions on Mitch in this thread. Re-watch Thursday's game - Mitch was awful. How can anyone not have seen that? His two longest completions were to May on a ball that was horribly underthrown, and a short out to Wolitarsky that DW ran 15-20 yards after the catch.

Yes, 19-35, but as Spoofin pointed out probably 16 of those weren't in the air more than 10 yards. One could say he kept us in the game against the number 2 team in the country. My take is that if he was functional, we win the game.

And seeing Boykin throw, compared to Leidner, there is no comparison - yeah, Boykin missed two open TDs, but every other ball was on a line, and on the money. He's a spectacular QB.

What was alarming to me was a) not just the misses, but how badly the misses were - ridiculous for a two-year BigTen starter, and b) his lack of sense. Yes, the O-Line was a shambles, but he showed so little pocket-sense...

Now, I'm saying this today, and Mitch will probably go 14 of 22 for 220 yards and 2 TDs at CSU, and we'll be saying the same thing most have said for the last year, "this is what Mitch is - awful one day, decent the next".

And again, like it or not, I'm sure he is our best option right now. However, if they (gopher coaches) like the recruit from MI as much as Burns and recruiting analysts say they do, then my vote would be to forget the redshirt for Croft and give him five plays a game.
 

And personally, I don't consider Leidner a game manager at all. To me, a game manager is someone that knows how to manage the clock, gets first downs, doesn't turn the ball over, keeps the offense on the field, etc. I don't consider Mitch very strong in any of those areas.

And I don't mean to change gears here, but again, Boykin is really, really good. Being there and seeing him live, I was all that much more impressed. Every pass, complete or not, was put right where it was supposed to be (which also made me that much more impressed with our D-backs - on most of them, they were right there, except for the first TD and the two missed TDs by Boykin). I'm not saying he's going to be a star in the NFL or anything, but again, he's a great, great college player - fun to watch.
 

TCF=UnitedWeStand said:
And personally, I don't consider Leidner a game manager at all. To me, a game manager is someone that knows how to manage the clock, gets first downs, doesn't turn the ball over, keeps the offense on the field, etc. I don't consider Mitch very strong in any of those areas.

And I don't mean to change gears here, but again, Boykin is really, really good. Being there and seeing him live, I was all that much more impressed. Every pass, complete or not, was put right where it was supposed to be (which also made me that much more impressed with our D-backs - on most of them, they were right there, except for the first TD and the two missed TDs by Boykin). I'm not saying he's going to be a star in the NFL or anything, but again, he's a great, great college player - fun to watch.
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This^^
 

Completing more than 50% of your passes with no interceptions isn't "awful". Sorry.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Completing more than 50% of your passes with no interceptions isn't "awful". Sorry.
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If you're looking at completion % as your one measure then you are correct.

It's tough to say a game with multiple end over end passes can be seen as anything but sub mediocre.

I understand defending Leidner he's been there when this program had no other option, Nelson was just as inconsistent and clearly thought he was better than the program. Leidner was likely better suited to the original plan of becoming a TE but the emergence of Maxx and lack of other QB's didn't make that a favorable decision. I thank Mitch for being there while still wondering why Kill hasn't been able to recruit a QB over 4+ years. The D of this program has become quite incredible, especially when you compare to the past 20+ years, hopefully the offense can become decent here at some point.
 

Halsey Hall said:
I love the argument that if the coach starts a guy, then he's automatically the best player at that position. So Belichick must be an idiot for starting Drew Bledsoe ahead of Brady in 2001. How about Miller Huggins starting Wally Pipp ahead of Lou Gehrig?

<b>Alabama played a few qb's against Wisconsin. Why can't we at least give Perra one series?</b>

(At least Jerry admitted he shouldn't have started Lauer.
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3 issues with the bolded...

1. You can't draw any conclusions from 1-series. If he struggles and throws a pick do you then stop playing him? Does it mean he is no good?

2. At last count, Perra was our 4th string QB. Why not give Chris, Demry, and Conor a series too?

3. This approach does not give us the best chance to win, in the coaches minds. We have a team that could win the West and based off of 6-point loss to the #2 team in the country you are ready to go into 'experiment' mode?
 

dpodoll68 said:
Completing more than 50% of your passes with no interceptions isn't "awful". Sorry.
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A full game is 60 minutes, four quarters, etc., so it's inevitable that there are going to be ups and downs through out and you have to take the whole game in to consideration - I get that. However, prior to the last touchdown drive, I believe Leidner was something like 9 of 25(?). I believe we had six first downs going in to the third quarter, as compared to 17 for TCU.

Clearly we have different definitions of "awful", which is fine.
 

TCF=UnitedWeStand said:
...

And again, like it or not, I'm sure he is our best option right now. However, if they (gopher coaches) like the recruit from MI as much as Burns and recruiting analysts say they do, then my vote would be to forget the redshirt for Croft and give him five plays a game.
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Building depth right now is so important. People on here are arguing that "Mitch is the best we got RIGHT NOW, or coach wouldn't play him". That's true, but that's a bad, bad situation to be in. This program can't get over the next hurdle by blindly starting the same guy for 4 years if he can't get it done. If Croft has a higher ceiling than Mitch, then I would like to see him get an opportunity or two a game. There is no need to redshirt Croft in my mind. Not giving him (or any other qb) game experience will prolong his development.

If the freshmen qbs can avoid throwing INTs in one series (big if), then how much worse would he really be doing than Mitch? Honestly, if Croft came in for one series in the 2nd quarter and we go three and out... How much worse off are we in any game we've played since Mitch has been starter? You can't tell me that Mitch's three and outs are better than any other guy's.

Just so my argument isn't twisted, by no means should any of the freshman qbs been given reps versus number 2 in the first game of the season. My argument is that Mitch has reached his ceiling, and that ceiling is (hopefully) lower than the freshmen's. For the sake of laying the next brick, let's groom those guys as quickly as possible.


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So Boykin was suppose to over throw those open receivers. Wow, TCU is even better than I thought if they game play in a couple of intentional incompletions.


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TCF=UnitedWeStand said:
However, prior to the last touchdown drive, I believe Leidner was something like 9 of 25(?).
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He was 13-27 before the last two possessions.


I believe we had six first downs going in to the third quarter, as compared to 17 for TCU.
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TCU had 12 first downs in the first half, MN had 6.

He did just fine with the short passes, but struggled with the deep balls.
 

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