Check out this lame little hit-piece that fool Myron just published in the Strib

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Bronko Nagurski Gopher

Bronko Nagurski Gopher

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http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/69252122.html?elr=KArksUUUycaEacyU

based on the overly-negative tone and approach of the "story" it sounds to me like maybe someone is attempting to "get back" at tubby a little because he can't get the all-access pass to the team and locker room that he wants oh so badly. this hack needs to remember he is the gopher's basketball beat reporter, not an opinion columnist. guessing good ole' dennis brackin (editor) put him up to it. he and reusse are old chums who go way back and this has their U of M hit-piece stench written all over it. hey, i know. let's take shots at tubby and the program by rehashing crap that happened anywhere from 12 to 40 years ago to give it a little star tribune flavor!

anyways, piss off myron! time to head back to milwaukee. your coverage of gopher's basketball so far has been pretty weak and the majority of your insight appears to be dependent on bloggers and message board posters. or you can just keep writing the majority of your stories based on info and leads you get from gopherhole and gophersillustrated......you do seem pretty adept at that.
 

A journalist's job is to open discussion. His aim here isn't to target the Gopher Basketball program, but instead to open a debate, as his argument is based almost purely on supportive evidence. I have absolutely no problem with this, as I believe strongly that this discussion must be open due to the serious ramifications it's having all the way through the bureaucratic system here at the University.
 

thestl said:
A journalist's job is to open discussion. His aim here isn't to target the Gopher Basketball program, but instead to open a debate, as his argument is based almost purely on supportive evidence. I have absolutely no problem with this, as I believe strongly that this discussion must be open due to the serious ramifications it's having all the way through the bureaucratic system here at the University.
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disagree. it is nothing but a hit-piece. it also reads like it came from a slighted and probably vindictive beat reporter (again he is not an opinion columnist) who has had a beef with tubby for a while now due to the limited access he has been given to the coach and the program. now i understand why!
 

Garbage article. He makes it sound like these issues are unique to the gophers. Crap like this happens all the time. If you compare Tubby to other coaches, I'd say he does a pretty good job taking character into account when recruiting. Then he says this, "Smith also welcomed Mbakwe, even after learning he'd been charged with felony assault stemming from an incident in Miami in April and would not necessarily be allowed to compete." Am I missing something, or did that incident happen quite a bit after Trevor was already offered a scholarship and had decided to come here. Once Tubby heard of the incident, was he supposed to just decide Trevor should never get a chance even though there's a good chance he is innocent?

I was just starting to somewhat except Myron's crappy work, but he came through with the typical Myron type article that we've all come to love.
 

Bronko Nagurski Gopher said:
disagree. it is nothing but a hit-piece. it also reads like it came from a slighted and probably vindictive beat reporter (again he is not an opinion columnist) who has had a beef with tubby for a while now due to the limited access he has been given to the coach and the program. now i understand why!
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Say what you will about the article - but I just can't imagine Myron's intent was to get back at Tubby for not having access. Tubby hasn't given much access since he's been here - it's not like the Monson days when Coach was open to mostly every request. You take the good (winning) with the bad (less access). I know Tubby doesn't hang on every word the media says, he is above that, however, if anything, writing a more negative story is would hurt his access. Keep in mind, he's dealing with the bball program everyday, so he's not going to just slander the program. I don't think this was a hack job - I just think it's pointing out the negative things that have happened during the program.

Well, now you've seen it all...I've defended Maturi and Myron in the same week ;).
 


I wrote a long reply and just decided to erase it. I am tired of a lot of stuff, but nothing more so than the idea that star athletes not doing their own school work was something that only happened (happens) at Minnesota.

I am not sure how it can be argued that Tubby was taking chances with this class when White, Williams, and Mbwake had offers from some of the best programs in the nation. I also resent the implication that Williams, because he struggled academically, should be bunched in with White and Mbwake who have been charged with crimes.

I am frusterated with Royce White, I have heard enough (both public and private information) to feel like a long suspension is warranted. If I were Tubby (and I certainly realize I am not), I would concentrate on making Royce's life as difficult as possible over the next few weeks. Extra running in the morning before the team practices, enforced early curfew by a staff member checking on him, and possibly community service on the weekends. I'd give White another chance, but he'd have to earn it.
 

GopherLady said:
Say what you will about the article - but I just can't imagine Myron's intent was to get back at Tubby for not having access. Tubby hasn't given much access since he's been here - it's not like the Monson days when Coach was open to mostly every request. You take the good (winning) with the bad (less access). I know Tubby doesn't hang on every word the media says, he is above that, however, if anything, writing a more negative story is would hurt his access. Keep in mind, he's dealing with the bball program everyday, so he's not going to just slander the program. I don't think this was a hack job - I just think it's pointing out the negative things that have happened during the program.

Well, now you've seen it all...I've defended Maturi and Myron in the same week ;).
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You're one of the most reasonable posters on here Gopher Lady. As we have recently discussed, the problems are plentiful and Tubby has a long track record of handling similar problems in a professional and appropriate manner that is often lacking in the cesspool that is NCAA basketball.

It remains to be seen how he handles the recent crap. I do understand why he sat on the suspensions as long as he did, and even understand why some of the miscreants played in the public scrimmage. Time will tell in both how Maturi and Smith handle what's on their plates and what remains to put on their plates this season.
 





"You're one of the most reasonable posters on here Gopher Lady."

I agree and am curious to hear your thoughts GL on Royce's most recent incident. This is not intended to taunt you or bait you Nadine, I'm genuinely interested to hear what you think as you defended him after the throwing the ball at Damian Johnson when his back was turned/ quitting/walking out on his team at summer league. I know some others who've been in the guy's corner like you have tired of his antics since that time, but how are you feeling about him? There's no doubt he can be charming when he wants to be (So can sociopathic serial killers) as he made very good impressions on you and BigGopherFan. Are you still of the mind that he's a super guy, just misunderstood? Expelled from the dorms, shoplifting, assault....would you agree it's a pattern he brings on himself or do you see these issues as unrelated? Thoughts?
 

Sorry but you can't erase history. Bottom line is we have a checkered past and we have to accept that. If Myron is the beat writer, he has to report the news. And White's arrest is NEWS! He's been the most heralded metro-area player for the last couple years.

And I'm so tired of the argument, well, it happens everywhere. No it doesn't! How many academic scandals has Duke had? How many players from Wake Forest get arrested? How many major NCAA infractions does UNC have?

You have to take the good with the bad. Can't have it both ways.
 

I don't see Myron's article as being overly negative. It's the truth of the last few days though and it hurts to confront it.
 

In an article focusing on the history of the program, shouldn't have title been something along the lines of the problems didn't BEGIN with coach Smith. Myron doesn't have a time machine, he doesn't know if, when, and how they will end.

Reporters and their word choice/tenses...so problematic.
 



"...he has to report the news. And White's arrest is NEWS!"

I have no problem with that. However, someone needs to convince me that all the "old news" is still news. That has already been reported and hashed over times n. What happened 5, 10, 20 years ago is irrelevant in todays world of Gopher basketball and had nothing to do with the White situation.

Whites behavior has nothing to do with the past actions of former Gopher players and coaches and is totally unrelated. It is not an inherit quality found in Gopher basketball players. It has everything to do with his personality and who he is. The news now is what punishment he receives and how he handles it.
 

MNCH said:
And I'm so tired of the argument, well, it happens everywhere. No it doesn't! How many academic scandals has Duke had? How many players from Wake Forest get arrested? How many major NCAA infractions does UNC have?
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Those schools are the same. Only the level at which they are investigated is the difference. There are no choir boys in this game and no program is 100% clean according to the rulebook.
 

The Truth said:
Those schools are the same. Only the level at which they are investigated is the difference. There are no choir boys in this game and no program is 100% clean according to the rulebook.
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As Jerry Tarkanian once said: "Nine out of 10 programs cheat. The one that doesn't is in last place."

Go Gophers!!
 

Myron's column was excellent and it needed to be written. You people that choose to ignore or whitewash these kinds problems are pathetic. You are part of the problem with big time college athletics these days. You love to ridicule other schools who have similar problems, but you refuse to acknowlege the truly awful history of Gopher basketball since Musselman was here.

And it is less important about what GopherHolers think about this history than what non-Gopher fans in Minnesota think, and what other college basketball fans around the country think. I would wager that the Gophers would be in the Top 10 of any national poll about Division I basketball programs that have had a history of scandal. We would probably be in the Top 5.

Royce White should be kicked off the Gopher basketball team. End of story.
 

MNCH said:
And I'm so tired of the argument, well, it happens everywhere. No it doesn't! How many academic scandals has Duke had? How many players from Wake Forest get arrested? How many major NCAA infractions does UNC have?
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It happens at those programs just like everywhere else. It just gets swept under the rug a lot more and many of the top programs. Trust me, I lived in the heart of tobacco row for 4 years. Stuffed happened, but usually very little was said about it.
 

The piece was analysis not opinion and reporters are allowed to do that. The relevance to the past scandals was that the University has taken chances on kids over the years because of our desire to win and because of our recruiting disadvantages. I think the Musselman, Madison, and Clem scandals did happen because of our desire to win and taking chances on kids. Ironically, now the two kids now are home-grown and one was considered such a talent that just about any program would have taken him.

My problems with this article are the timing of it and the narrowness of it. I know we just found out the news, but tonight is the first look at this year's team. Let's save this article for later if you feel it needs to be written. Let's dwell on how will Sampson and Iverson look, what is Carter's role, will Blake have his shot, is it a different Lawrence, how much will Cobbs play, and, oh ya, what will Rodney do? That would have been the article for tonight.

Also, I've brought up the past as much as anyone but it would really be nice to see how our history compares to other Big Ten schools and to other big time programs. I think the ACC manages their images better, but I don't know if Duke is clean or everyone looks the other way. We've had some real hits but Iowa, Michigan, and Indiana (lately) come to mind also. That doesn't excuse us but Stanford might be the only school I'd be really put money on as being able to point fingers at everybody else. Hell, Kansas had their basketball and football players battling each other earlier this year. Can you imagine this board if Tinsley was using his 2 x 4 for that?
 

Pardon the irony, but I thought the article was fair and balanced in the sense of what those words really mean. Of course Myron had to bring up the history of the program because it gives the story context and illuminates the reality that, as a practical consideration, we have to have a lower tolerance for this kind of behavior than schools that don't get caught in a big scandal every decade. He quoted Maturi extensively and I thought that Maturi's points were well made. Tubby chose not to comment and Myron didn't hammer him for that.

It's a dirty business because we demand victories and maintain the fiction that these guys are real students. Probably eighty percent of them are not.

If Royce and Trevor are as good as people say, the university could make millions from them. Tubby could use their accomplishments on the court to leverage a better contract here or someplace else. The fact that the players aren't paid is a travesty. Yeah, yeah, I know they get a scholarship but many of them are so ill prepared academically and the sport takes up so much of their time that it really isn't a tangible benefit.
 

Most people realize that White, Mbwake and Williams were risks. It is certainly not unusual for college coaches take them and hope for the best. Didn't I read where Tubby acknowledged that?

The thing that matters is what the current coach is doing to assure that the players are responsible and he/she runs a clean program. That's what people want to know. Not the failures of those in the past. Like I said that's old news and mostly irrelevant except to remind others to run a clean program.

I think what bothers people is what motivated White's behavior. I highly doubt that past actions of Gopher players had anything to do with his choice.

Like I posted, can someone point out where the past failures of the program have any direct tie to the White situation?

Where is the balanced reporting here? Where is the story of a Blake Hoffarber, Adam Weber, the Tow-Arnetts, etc. Solid student/athletes who have been an absolute credit to the university.
 

Simple answer:

Don't commit/ be accused of crimes and this is not an issue.
Mbakwe on his own is not a big issue because he is either guilty or completely innocent. Add White and it becomes one. This program has a troubled history- live with it.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
Most people realize that White, Mbwake and Williams were risks. It is certainly not unusual for college coaches take them and hope for the best. Didn't I read where Tubby acknowledged that?

The thing that matters is what the current coach is doing to assure that the players are responsible and he/she runs a clean program. That's what people want to know. Not the failures of those in the past. Like I said that's old news and mostly irrelevant except to remind others to run a clean program.

I think what bothers people is what motivated White's behavior. I highly doubt that past actions of Gopher players had anything to do with his choice.

Like I posted, can someone point out where the past failures of the program have any direct tie to the White situation?

Where is the balanced reporting here? Where is the story of a Blake Hoffarber, Adam Weber, the Tow-Arnetts, etc. Solid student/athletes who have been an absolute credit to the university.
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There are a ton of student athletes that are a credit to the University, but that isn't news. I think you aren't quite sure what fair and balanced reporting actually means. The Strib isn't responsible for writing a positive story about Blake Hoffarber or Damien Johnson just because Royce White and Bostick are in trouble.

Most of the people on this board seem to think the Strib is out to get Gopher Athletics, but that just isn't the case.
 

UpnorthGo4 said: "I would wager that the Gophers would be in the Top 10 of any national poll about Division I basketball programs that have had a history of scandal. We would probably be in the Top 5."

So what? That is behind us. On the surface, the White situation is miniscule compared to what went on in the past.

Obviously Tubby was not to concerned about your rating system as he willingly accepted the job at a top 5 history of scandal school. Ralph Sampson was not opposed to sending his son to play for the UM knowing the past issues. Players, coaches and parents are concerned about what have you done lately and what may be possible tomorrow, not what happened a decade(s) ago.
 


GophersInIowa said:
It happens at those programs just like everywhere else. It just gets swept under the rug a lot more and many of the top programs. Trust me, I lived in the heart of tobacco row for 4 years. Stuffed happened, but usually very little was said about it.
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They grow tobacco in Iowa?!?!
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
Most people realize that White, Mbwake and Williams were risks. It is certainly not unusual for college coaches take them and hope for the best. Didn't I read where Tubby acknowledged that?

The thing that matters is what the current coach is doing to assure that the players are responsible and he/she runs a clean program. That's what people want to know. Not the failures of those in the past. Like I said that's old news and mostly irrelevant except to remind others to run a clean program.

I think what bothers people is what motivated White's behavior. I highly doubt that past actions of Gopher players had anything to do with his choice.

Like I posted, can someone point out where the past failures of the program have any direct tie to the White situation?

Where is the balanced reporting here? Where is the story of a Blake Hoffarber, Adam Weber, the Tow-Arnetts, etc. Solid student/athletes who have been an absolute credit to the university.
Click to expand...

They just wrote an article on Weber yesterday! Tow-Arnett last month!
 


Shoplifting/petty theft is a bootable offense though some schools do not go that far. I am sure they have checked out the security tape to establish the intent of the accused. With White’s checkered past, I would not complain if he got a long suspension and decided to transfer because of it. I think the article was rather mild in stating the facts although Myron could have used a bit more restraint in the description of Tubby welcoming White and Mbakwe.

I guess Tubby wants to wait and see how the court of public opinion swings (as he mentioned the suspension being indefinite or undetermined). I hope that Tubby makes a right decision and comes out of this relatively unscathed. But, he, as a leader, manager and decision maker, should take a few criticisms.
 

I thought it was a very good article. I did not see it as negative to coach Smith at all. It just pointed out some of the real issues he faces getting top level recruits to Mpls. It is a fact that he took some risks with the three Minnesota recruits this year, but fans would have been up in arms of they had ended up at Wisconsin or Kansas. That Myron pointed this out did not present me with any problems.
 

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