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Spaulding!No! said:
Fleck was out front the moment he was named HC at Mn. He was everywhere any one had a microphone or a camera explaining his past and future for mn football. Baby Ben has been ummmmm
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This is it. I'm sure the U is aware that the fan base became split (not saying 50/50, but hiring a new coach typically brings general excitement).

I do wish and hope Ben does more now to market the program since he is pretty much done with the roster. He doesn't have to be like PJ, but market your vision to the state and to the fans.
 

stocker08 said:
Maybe so. But he went and grabbed a bunch of productive players at lower tier programs. Say what you want about them....but lower tier programs can make noise. We see it every year. Grabbing one of the best players from these teams might not have been a terrible strategy.

As for "where he's steering the bus".....he doesn't owe you a roadmap. He's going to have to create a gameplan for the team he puts on the court.



I'd argue that football and basketball are two different beasts. Not to mention that Fleck fell into a much better situation. Johnson had to deal with an already failing program where the team lost most of their second half games.....and had to deal with a new NCAA rule allowing free transfers. You think that Fleck would have kept as many players as he did if the NCAA allowed free transfers that year? Get real. Johnson would have retained much of the roster if that didn't exist. Hell.....Carr maybe would have been playing for this team next year as well.
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Fleck would have likely lost more if the transfer portal was as it is today, but I guarantee he would have brought in several high level transfers as well.

Everyone wants to use the transfer portal as an excuse as to why we lost our entire team, when other first year coaches are keeping more players, and bringing in more talented players than Johnson in equally difficult situations.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Fleck would have likely lost more if the transfer portal was as it is today, but I guarantee he would have brought in several high level transfers as well.

Everyone wants to use the transfer portal as an excuse as to why we lost our entire team, when other first year coaches are keeping more players, and bringing in more talented players than Johnson in equally difficult situations.
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Fleck's team would have likely lost more talent than he brought in. He was coming from a MAC school. AWjrs dad was pressuring him to leave prior, due to the sexual assault allegations. You think with a free transfer, he would have hung around? Maybe. But he probably could have gone anywhere. And he was irreplaceable. And that's just one guy.

And I'm not defending Johnson in that sense. But all the chicken littles calling his tenure a failure four months in, need to be talked off the ledge. We haven't even seen the guy coach a game yet.

You all need to settle down and give him a couple years before impolding. We weren't going to be a tournament team this year regardless.
 

stocker08 said:
Fleck's team would have likely lost more talent than he brought in. He was coming from a MAC school. AWjrs dad was pressuring him to leave prior, due to the sexual assault allegations. You think with a free transfer, he would have hung around? Maybe. But he probably could have gone anywhere. And he was irreplaceable. And that's just one guy.

And I'm not defending Johnson in that sense. But all the chicken littles calling his tenure a failure four months in, need to be talked off the ledge. We haven't even seen the guy coach a game yet.

You all need to settle down and give him a couple years before impolding. We weren't going to be a tournament team this year regardless.
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I'm not calling Johnson a failure before coaching a game. But it's reasonable to be frustrated and concerned when your frontcourt currently consists of Eric Curry with bad knees, a rail thin true freshman who slid down the rankings after an underwhelming senior year, a bench player from Stephen F Austin, and a D2 role player.

This is a B1G school with unlimited playing time available and an open transfer market, and that's the best Johnson could do.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I'm not calling Johnson a failure before coaching a game. But it's reasonable to be frustrated and concerned when your frontcourt currently consists of Eric Curry with bad knees, a rail thin true freshman who slid down the rankings after an underwhelming senior year, a bench player from Stephen F Austin, and a D2 role player.

This is a B1G school with unlimited playing time available and an open transfer market, and that's the best Johnson could do.
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It's a fine reason to be concerned. I'm refuting everyone who is trying to confirm their belief that Johnson was a bad choice. It's been four months. Settle down. He deserves a few years to show what he can do before talking about how someone like Craig Smith was the right choice. Smith's big land from the portal was......Both......btw.
 


stocker08 said:
It's a fine reason to be concerned. I'm refuting everyone who is trying to confirm their belief that Johnson was a bad choice. It's been four months. Settle down. He deserves a few years to show what he can do before talking about how someone like Craig Smith was the right choice. Smith's big land from the portal was......Both......btw.
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Smith did a hell of a lot better than Johnson in the portal. He landed Jenkins from UNLV who avg 15 ppg last season. Mahorcic(6'10) from Illinois State who avg 10 and 8. Brought with him 2 players from Utah State, one who avg 10 and 5, and another who was a FR who avg 9 and 3.5 assists. And then a kid who was a top 225 kid in 2020 who opted out. Out of the 6 they brought in, 4 of them would probably start for us.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Smith did a hell of a lot better than Johnson in the portal. He landed Jenkins from UNLV who avg 15 ppg last season. Mahorcic(6'10) from Illinois State who avg 10 and 8. Brought with him 2 players from Utah State, one who avg 10 and 5, and another who was a FR who avg 9 and 3.5 assists. And then a kid who was a top 225 kid in 2020 who opted out. Out of the 6 they brought in, 4 of them would probably start for us.
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Whoa! UNLV transfer! Illinois State transfer! Brought some guys from Utah State!

A gluttony of power five transfers it seems. Brought in all the power five transfers!
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Based on what?

It's funny their fanbase hated their off-season but you tried to turn it into something good.
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Based on how good they are, and the competition they played. You're telling me we aren't starting a 6'10 guy who avg 10 and 8 at Illinois State over a backup from from Stephen F Austin, a D2 guy who avg 10 and 5 or Curry who has no knees? Jenkins is definitely better than any of our PG options. He's going to eclipse 2,000 career points. And yeah, give me the guys that started and played for a team that made the NCAA tournament, over someone from William and Mary, New Hampshire and Lafayette. I'm not even including Gach who actually started for us last year for the first 20 games or whatever.

And yeah, they lost 9 guys in the portal, pretty much like us. So that sucks for them. I can see why their fanbase would be frustrated. But the guys they got are better than we landed, unfortunately. I'm not saying it says anything long-term about either coach, but they are significantly better suited for this year than we are imo.
 

stocker08 said:
Whoa! UNLV transfer! Illinois State transfer! Brought some guys from Utah State!

A gluttony of power five transfers it seems. Brought in all the power five transfers!
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Seems you can't refute what I said about them bringing in better guys...

I also never said he did a great job, but he undoubtedly done a better than Johnson has, unfortunately.
 



Gophers7633 said:
Seems you can't refute what I said about them bringing in better guys...

I also never said he did a great job, but he undoubtedly done a better than Johnson has, unfortunately.
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Wow! His mid major transfers were better than ours!!! UNLV, Illinois State, Utah State. He hit the elite mid major schools!!!

Listen to yourself.
 

stocker08 said:
Wow! His mid major transfers were better than ours!!! UNLV, Illinois State, Utah State. He hit the elite mid major schools!!!

Listen to yourself.
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Who did a better job? All I said was that Smith did a better job. If you can't refute that, or agree, I'm not sure why you're acting like this? Yes, his mid major players he landed are significantly better than ours.
 

Johnson faces significant challenges others do not. It is not a college town and it is in a city viewed by many to be a really bad place for the last 24 months. We need to give him time. The program took the first step and got rid of a coach with a horrible record. We can not know if we hired the best one for the job at this point. We will not win a lot in the conference but the hope that we can be a meaningful top 4 program after 3-4 years and sustain it is a possibility. Before it was not going to be. It has never been done here. No idea if JOHNSON IS THAT GUY but i like his staff and know of the way they want to build a culture they can recruit too.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Smith did a hell of a lot better than Johnson in the portal. He landed Jenkins from UNLV who avg 15 ppg last season. Mahorcic(6'10) from Illinois State who avg 10 and 8. Brought with him 2 players from Utah State, one who avg 10 and 5, and another who was a FR who avg 9 and 3.5 assists. And then a kid who was a top 225 kid in 2020 who opted out. Out of the 6 they brought in, 4 of them would probably start for us.
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Agreed. However, I think Utah, with or without Smith, would be considered a better destination than Minnesota, with or without Johnson, right now. Much better weather and they have had 3 first round draft picks over the last six years or so. Most players might prefer playing in the Pac 12 to the Big Ten as well even though the Big Ten usually gets more tournament berths.
 



cjbfbp said:
Agreed. However, I think Utah, with or without Smith, would be considered a better destination than Minnesota, with or without Johnson, right now. Much better weather and they have had 3 first round draft picks over the last six years or so. Most players might prefer playing in the Pac 12 to the Big Ten as well even though the Big Ten usually gets more tournament berths.
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Idk. It's not like they have been a good program lately. They haven't made the tournament since 2016 and have only made it 3 times in the last 15 years. They are pretty far removed from being relevant on a national stage. And they've had guys drafted, but not because they've recruited all that well.
 



Gophers7633 said:
Smith did a hell of a lot better than Johnson in the portal. He landed Jenkins from UNLV who avg 15 ppg last season. Mahorcic(6'10) from Illinois State who avg 10 and 8. Brought with him 2 players from Utah State, one who avg 10 and 5, and another who was a FR who avg 9 and 3.5 assists. And then a kid who was a top 225 kid in 2020 who opted out. Out of the 6 they brought in, 4 of them would probably start for us.
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Hey that's great! Why are we comparing the 2? What does smith have to do with his again?
 


gophereric30 said:
Hey that's great! Why are we comparing the 2? What does smith have to do with his again?
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Smith was brought up by someone else. That's why the comparison. I'm just pointing out Smith has done a much better job at this point. I even said that doesn't mean anything as far as long-term projections.
 

gophereric30 said:
So you think ben is supposed to be this great guy in 2 months?
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I expected more than what he's delivered. And that's saying something because my expectations weren't all that great to begin with given his coaching history.
 

stocker08 said:
Whoa! UNLV transfer! Illinois State transfer! Brought some guys from Utah State!

A gluttony of power five transfers it seems. Brought in all the power five transfers!
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The problem with your sarcasm is yeah maybe that's not too impressive, but it's a lot better than what we have got. We are sitting over here pining for a roster like that, that is how bad it is. So your slam on Utah's roster is actually a bigger slam on Minnesota's roster.
 

Gopher Teeth said:
The problem with your sarcasm is yeah maybe that's not too impressive, but it's a lot better than what we have got. We are sitting over here pining for a roster like that, that is how bad it is. So your slam on Utah's roster is actually a bigger slam on Minnesota's roster.
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Very well said.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
It's a basketball message board and it sounds like we could have had him.
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Did we even interview him? How can you almost have a guy when your not interested in him? Did we interview him? I'm not even sure. If we did I apologjze.
 

gophereric30 said:
Did we even interview him? How can you almost have a guy when your not interested in him? Did we interview him? I'm not even sure. If we did I apologjze.
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Whether we reached out to interview Smith or others is not necessarily an indication of whether or not we could have had them. I think there are a few good coaches that they could have had that never got a phone call. But it is what it is. I am rooting for Ben. Rough start, but a great '22 class will really, really help matters.
 



bga1 said:
Whether we reached out to interview Smith or others is not necessarily an indication of whether or not we could have had them. I think there are a few good coaches that they could have had that never got a phone call. But it is what it is. I am rooting for Ben. Rough start, but a great '22 class will really, really help matters.
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95% chance that Smith would’ve taken this job. Either way we got our guy and like you said “it is what it is” and we are both rooting for success.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Smith did a hell of a lot better than Johnson in the portal. He landed Jenkins from UNLV who avg 15 ppg last season. Mahorcic(6'10) from Illinois State who avg 10 and 8. Brought with him 2 players from Utah State, one who avg 10 and 5, and another who was a FR who avg 9 and 3.5 assists. And then a kid who was a top 225 kid in 2020 who opted out. Out of the 6 they brought in, 4 of them would probably start for us.
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ha..ha..ha... I would rather have hungry, top achievers from a lower level school than some middle of the bench player from a lower level P5 or small school.

You will be surprised about the Gopher this year.
 

the success of a player also has a lot to do with the system they are going to play in.
Smith may be looking for a different type of player for his system as opposed to what Johnson is looking for - so you cannot assume that a player would have equal success playing in either system. Some players might be more productive in Smith's system while other players might be more productive in Johnson's system.

In the end, most coaches are looking for specific abilities to fit a specific system. Unless you're Rich Pitino, in which case you just recruit a bunch of players and then try to shoehorn them into a system they may not be suited for.
 

alchemy2u said:
ha..ha..ha... I would rather have hungry, top achievers from a lower level school than some middle of the bench player from a lower level P5 or small school.

You will be surprised about the Gopher this year.
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That's fine. I'd rather have the frustrated 4/5 prospect that was frustrated with his role and ended up transferring after his FR year.

Either way what you send doesn't apply to what Utah brought in.

I hope you're right about the Gophers. I'd be surprised if we got to 7/8 wins this year overall.
 

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