Charles Buggs

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MadtownGopher said:
If Buggs became DJ he'd be a first round pick because he has much better size and athleticism. I'm just hoping he turns into a good combo forward off the bench.
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the most over used description that means nothing.
 

MadtownGopher said:
Here's a crazy prediction for you all: I could see Oto getting Mav treatment next year and Pitino going with a platoon of Martin, King, and Buggs at the PF spot.

Each of Martin, King, and Buggs would bring a different niche to the PF position. King and Oto are redundant and since King is younger and has obviously shown more than Oto lately (hence his new role as a starter), I could see Oto being a deep reserve.
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Oto seems to be the only one of the group who understands team basketball & he'll be a 5th year Senior with the most experience at the position, so I don't see him taking a big step backwards next year. King is what he is. An incomplete player, who isn't significantly better or worse than Oto. Buggs is a non factor right now & softest big man since Ralph Sampson. While positions are not so clearly defined anymore, Buggs is really a SF in a PF's body. Martin is the hope, but he's never played a minute of college ball & the majority of the time our Freshmen are not nearly as good as us fans hope they'll be. I don't see a solution in that group at all. What I'm hoping is we can bring in solid Juco PF, a Rakeem Buckles (not a Juco, but you get my point) type who can play right away, while Martin gets his feet wet.
 


Costa Rican Gopher said:
Oto seems to be the only one of the group who understands team basketball & he'll be a 5th year Senior with the most experience at the position, so I don't see him taking a big step backwards next year. King is what he is. An incomplete player, who isn't significantly better or worse than Oto. Buggs is a non factor right now & softest big man since Ralph Sampson. While positions are not so clearly defined anymore, Buggs is really a SF in a PF's body. Martin is the hope, but he's never played a minute of college ball & the majority of the time our Freshmen are not nearly as good as us fans hope they'll be. I don't see a solution in that group at all. What I'm hoping is we can bring in solid Juco PF, a Rakeem Buckles (not a Juco, but you get my point) type who can play right away, while Martin gets his feet wet.
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Please elaborate on what you mean. Are you saying he's a good passer? Sets good screens? Because I haven't noticed his superior ability of doing either. He definitely has the worst court awareness on the team. He never seems to know where the ball is and is out of position more often than not. He also plays with the least amount of energy of anyone on the team, which is a big reason why King has taken his spot in the starting line up. He was recruited as a combo forward that could stretch the defense with his shot. His shot has never come around so now he is just a soft 6'8 forward that tends to disappear and easily forgotten about on the court except when he makes a bone headed decision.
 

I thought the most interesting thing about Buggs' appearance was that it shows Pitino can have a really quick hook if a player does something he doesn't like. If someone screws up a defensive rotation, or doesn't go after a rebound hard enough, he's out of the game. (Ironic, in that was one of the complaints about Tubby, as I recall.) To me, it says that Pitino is really trying to show the players who the boss is - "do it my way, or you're on the bench." The only potential problem with that approach is that, if 2 or 3 guys screw up in succession, he'll need a deeper bench.
 


MadtownGopher said:
Please elaborate on what you mean. Are you saying he's a good passer? Sets good screens? Because I haven't noticed his superior ability of doing either. He definitely has the worst court awareness on the team. He never seems to know where the ball is and is out of position more often than not. He also plays with the least amount of energy of anyone on the team, which is a big reason why King has taken his spot in the starting line up. He was recruited as a combo forward that could stretch the defense with his shot. His shot has never come around so now he is just a soft 6'8 forward that tends to disappear and easily forgotten about on the court except when he makes a bone headed decision.
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Buggs without question has the worst court awareness on the team. It's not even close. I love the dude's ability, and I'm no Oto homer, but it's night and day between Oto and Buggs.
 

jmag21 said:
Buggs without question has the worst court awareness on the team. It's not even close. I love the dude's ability, and I'm no Oto homer, but it's night and day between Oto and Buggs.
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Oto's a shooter. Not necessarily a scorer, but a shooter.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
Oto seems to be the only one of the group who understands team basketball & he'll be a 5th year Senior with the most experience at the position, so I don't see him taking a big step backwards next year. King is what he is. An incomplete player, who isn't significantly better or worse than Oto. Buggs is a non factor right now & softest big man since Ralph Sampson. While positions are not so clearly defined anymore, Buggs is really a SF in a PF's body. Martin is the hope, but he's never played a minute of college ball & the majority of the time our Freshmen are not nearly as good as us fans hope they'll be. I don't see a solution in that group at all. What I'm hoping is we can bring in solid Juco PF, a Rakeem Buckles (not a Juco, but you get my point) type who can play right away, while Martin gets his feet wet.
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I have a good feeing about Martin. I agree let Oto/King fight it out to decide who starts the beginning of the season, but I can see Martin taking over at some point in time. I'm interested to see how Coach P. works a talented freshman into the lineup. For lack of a better term, I can see Martin as a stay at home PF as a freshman. I think Coach P. may simplify and slow the game down for him, so he can bang as a rebounder, with his defense deciding how much he plays. Just my thoughts.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
If Buggs had anything to offer at this time he would be playing.
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You'd think so. But the few times he's gotten minutes in games, he hasn't been awful. Maybe he's terrible in practice, but given how little Oto is giving us, I don't see the downside to giving him some minutes.
 



MadtownGopher said:
Please elaborate on what you mean. Are you saying he's a good passer? Sets good screens? Because I haven't noticed his superior ability of doing either. He definitely has the worst court awareness on the team. He never seems to know where the ball is and is out of position more often than not. He also plays with the least amount of energy of anyone on the team, which is a big reason why King has taken his spot in the starting line up. He was recruited as a combo forward that could stretch the defense with his shot. His shot has never come around so now he is just a soft 6'8 forward that tends to disappear and easily forgotten about on the court except when he makes a bone headed decision.
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Yes, Oto is a very good passer. Yes, he sets hard screens. Oto is not however, an athletic forward. Oto was never intended to be a starting PF on B1G team. Still, he's a legit 6'8" (taller than Trevor or Rodney) & does the little things that coaches love. Spacing, ball movement, passing, sets hard screens, fights through screens, solid defense, understands the concept of team defense, switches, staying vocal, physical play, all things that don't show up in the box score.

Last year fans wondered why Tubby was playing him. Tubby played Oto when we were ranked #8 in the nation & when he was on the hot seat fighting for his job. Why, to spite the fans? Ryan James (who I respect very much) thought he played a solid brand of basketball last year and has thought for much of the year that Oto does the little things better than Joey King. This year Pitino, not only didn't cut him or bury him on the bench as most fans predicted, but started him most of the season. Does Pitino also not know how to coach? Doesn't it make sense at some point to think there's something most fans aren't seeing? I'm not saying he's Larry Bird. I'm just saying the guy is doing something right or he wouldn't keep getting minutes & praise from multiple coaches for no reason.
 

howieramone said:
I have a good feeing about Martin. I agree let Oto/King fight it out to decide who starts the beginning of the season, but I can see Martin taking over at some point in time. I'm interested to see how Coach P. works a talented freshman into the lineup. For lack of a better term, I can see Martin as a stay at home PF as a freshman. I think Coach P. may simplify and slow the game down for him, so he can bang as a rebounder, with his defense deciding how much he plays. Just my thoughts.
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One thing I think we all agree on is that if Martin (or any Freshman) is the best player, then he'll play.
 

howeda7 said:
You'd think so. But the few times he's gotten minutes in games, he hasn't been awful. Maybe he's terrible in practice, but given how little Oto is giving us, I don't see the downside to giving him some minutes.
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Tubby & Pitino both think Oto is better.
 

Everybody loves the guy that never plays (not knocking Buggs). It's like the backup QB.

If Buggs deserved to play more minutes than Oto and King, Pitino would play him.
 



SelectionSunday said:
Everybody loves the guy that never plays (not knocking Buggs). It's like the backup QB.

If Buggs deserved to play more minutes than Oto and King, Pitino would play him.
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True, but Oto has lost his starting spot and Buggs got playing for the first time since the FSU game. So you could say Oto is trending down and Buggs is trending up. May be it was just a fluke occurrence, or maybe it was a sign of things to come. Either way I think Buggs will definitely have an opportunity to steal some playing time from Oto and King going into next year.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Everybody loves the guy that never plays (not knocking Buggs). It's like the backup QB.

If Buggs deserved to play more minutes than Oto and King, Pitino would play him.
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Yes. If Buggs can't steal minutes from the weakest position on the team and a couple mediocre players he has a long ways to go.
 

THE GUY IS A FRESHMAN!!!!!!!

Charles Buggs will be a player who logs significant minutes during his time at the University of Minnesota if he's here for 4 years.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
THE GUY IS A FRESHMAN!!!!!!!

Charles Buggs will be a player who logs significant minutes during his time at the University of Minnesota if he's here for 4 years.
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Exactly right. I wouldn't rule out the possiblity that they could even go big at times with Buggs next year playing the 3. After seeing how Mo has developed this year, I'm not ruling out Buggs taking the same kind of jump. This site was littered with posts even just 6 weeks ago where posters were saying that Mo would never amount to much of a player.

If Buggs develops you could have a lineup at times that looks like this:

Elliason or Walker
Martin
Buggs
Hollins
Matheui

Buggs may not have the handle to drive (not sure) but he can shoot the ball and would be a long defender at the 3- possibly effective in the zone.
 

power forward thoughts for next year...

I am not saying he wasn't supposed to be a shooter but i tried to do some "googling" and i couldn't find any recruiting web site that said Oto was a shooter? By the way I am like all the other Captain Obvious' out there that saw a big hole at the 4 with both Trevor and Rodney moving on and Buckles not being allowed to transfer. Oto hasn't played well the last few games, about as bad as King was the first few big ten games. The trend could continue or it could reserve?
I would love a jr college type pf for next year. I am not sold that Martin can come in as a freshman and play 20+ minutes. Currently he is listed on ESPN as a 6'7" 210 2* PF. Now I have noticed ESPN not updating heights and weights that often, but lets say he is 6'8" 220 and he looks muscular and athletic. He is also spoken of as very mechanical and raw. I know all our low rated recruits are diamonds in the rough. i think he will be a solid contributer especially if we are getting killed on the boards, but i also think he is not a shooter in a league of stretch 4's and we will just have to see. I hope I am wrong as both King and Oto are solid bench guys on a good team. If you compare King and Oto's stats for the year they are so close it is uncanny.

MadtownGopher said:
Please elaborate on what you mean. Are you saying he's a good passer? Sets good screens? Because I haven't noticed his superior ability of doing either. He definitely has the worst court awareness on the team. He never seems to know where the ball is and is out of position more often than not. He also plays with the least amount of energy of anyone on the team, which is a big reason why King has taken his spot in the starting line up. He was recruited as a combo forward that could stretch the defense with his shot. His shot has never come around so now he is just a soft 6'8 forward that tends to disappear and easily forgotten about on the court except when he makes a bone headed decision.
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bga1 said:
Buggs may not have the handle to drive (not sure) but he can shoot the ball and would be a long defender at the 3- possibly effective in the zone.
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Not poking fun at you BGA, because you said it, no one is sure on Buggs, Ellenson, and prior to recently McNeil because we hadn't seen them play but a couple minutes at a click. (This is primarily my complete and utter frustration with some people posturing as to whether or not Carlos Morris is going to be a decent player based off of a couple goddamn boxscores.)

All 3 of those guys are exceptionally young and have a lot of time to develop. Ellenson very well could be our starting 3 next year.... Who the hell knows?
 

march madness said:
I am not saying he wasn't supposed to be a shooter but i tried to do some "googling" and i couldn't find any recruiting web site that said Oto was a shooter? By the way I am like all the other Captain Obvious' out there that saw a big hole at the 4 with both Trevor and Rodney moving on and Buckles not being allowed to transfer. Oto hasn't played well the last few games, about as bad as King was the first few big ten games. The trend could continue or it could reserve?
I would love a jr college type pf for next year. I am not sold that Martin can come in as a freshman and play 20+ minutes. Currently he is listed on ESPN as a 6'7" 210 2* PF. Now I have noticed ESPN not updating heights and weights that often, but lets say he is 6'8" 220 and he looks muscular and athletic. He is also spoken of as very mechanical and raw. I know all our low rated recruits are diamonds in the rough. i think he will be a solid contributer especially if we are getting killed on the boards, but i also think he is not a shooter in a league of stretch 4's and we will just have to see. I hope I am wrong as both King and Oto are solid bench guys on a good team. If you compare King and Oto's stats for the year they are so close it is uncanny.
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Martin is 6'10, you must not follow this board very closely.
 

Buggs gets 2 minutes, as a messege by Patino, of what will happen if his normal rotation doesn't do what he wants and now people are ready to annoint him as a regular rotation guy for next year, if not a starter?? Um ok.
 

march madness said:
Buggs gets 2 minutes, as a messege by Patino, of what will happen if his normal rotation doesn't do what he wants and now people are ready to annoint him as a regular rotation guy for next year, if not a starter?? Um ok.
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Nobody is saying he'll start next year. We are just speculating that he could be a rotational guy because he is one of the more unique guys on the roster and Oto and King are nothing special.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
THE GUY IS A FRESHMAN!!!!!!!

Charles Buggs will be a player who logs significant minutes during his time at the University of Minnesota if he's here for 4 years.
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freshman with a red-shirt year and a 5th year of high school at a prep school. At some point the potential gets old and a guy is what he is. That point might not be here yet but.....
 

Minnesconsin fan said:
freshman with a red-shirt year and a 5th year of high school at a prep school. At some point the potential gets old and a guy is what he is. That point might not be here yet but.....
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True or False?

He's a freshman.

True or False?

Humans stop learning at an age around 18 years old.

True or False?

Charles Buggs has to be a top flight d1 B1G basketball player?

True or False?

Your post doesn't have much substance.
 

Well obviously he is 6'10" then because.. an article stated it, he mentioned it, because you say so? Did you also notice the listed 6' Yogi, and the 5'9" Lil Dre appeared to have an inch difference in height on the court. Ok so he is a raw 6'10" raw and mecahnical 2* prospect.

MadtownGopher said:
Martin is 6'10, you must not follow this board very closely.
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march madness said:
Well obviously he is 6'10" then because.. an article stated it, he mentioned it, because you say so? Did you also notice the listed 6' Yogi, and the 5'9" Lil Dre appeared to have an inch difference in height on the court. Ok so he is a raw 6'10" raw and mecahnical 2* prospect.
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So why do you insist on using ESPN's 2-star ranking when he is a 3-star everywhere else?
 

Winasota Gopher said:
Not poking fun at you BGA, because you said it, no one is sure on Buggs, Ellenson, and prior to recently McNeil because we hadn't seen them play but a couple minutes at a click. (This is primarily my complete and utter frustration with some people posturing as to whether or not Carlos Morris is going to be a decent player based off of a couple goddamn boxscores.)

All 3 of those guys are exceptionally young and have a lot of time to develop. Ellenson very well could be our starting 3 next year.... Who the hell knows?
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Nobody knows. All I am saying is that we shouldn't give up on Buggs, and I'm guessing Pitino isn't, because he has an intriguing package of talents. He's tall, long, athletic, can run and can shoot. Currently his basketball IQ and perhaps toughness under the boards keeps him off the floor. As per my post IF HE DEVELOPS he could be a guy who gets minutes at the 3- which would give us a different look than we currnetly can offer.

As Pitino said before the season started- He watches Buggs at times in practice and says Holy Smokes this guy could play in the NBA someday and then the next minute he says- what the heck is Buggs doing out there. So is he raw? Yeah. Could he develop? Maybe.
 

march madness said:
Buggs gets 2 minutes, as a messege by Patino, of what will happen if his normal rotation doesn't do what he wants and now people are ready to annoint him as a regular rotation guy for next year, if not a starter?? Um ok.
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Please give a citation on where someone, anyone said he would be a starter? Are you saying that there is no chance he is in the rotation next year? I will go so far as to say that one of two things will happen- he will either transfer or you are looking at a player who will see at least 10 minutes a game, probably at the 3 spot.
 

Perhaps it is just because Tubby used a deep bench but doesn't it seem odd that we have three scholarship players (Mav, Wally, Buggs) who never/rarely see the court?
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I thought the most interesting thing about Buggs' appearance was that it shows Pitino can have a really quick hook if a player does something he doesn't like. If someone screws up a defensive rotation, or doesn't go after a rebound hard enough, he's out of the game. (Ironic, in that was one of the complaints about Tubby, as I recall.) To me, it says that Pitino is really trying to show the players who the boss is - "do it my way, or you're on the bench." The only potential problem with that approach is that, if 2 or 3 guys screw up in succession, he'll need a deeper bench.
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I don't agree with your assessment. Pitino has shown that if a player doesn't show effort he pulls them quickly, but not for making a mistake. He hasn't been pulling Lil Dre after turn overs, Malik after bad shots or even King after getting blocked 3 shots in a row. But he did pull EE after he didn't sprint down the court and stood and argued with the refs (twice) and he did pull Oto for not going after a rebound hard. Huge difference between the way Pitino uses the hook and the way Tubby did IMO.
 

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