Caledonia native Eli King in portal from Iowa State

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Bob_Loblaw said:
I guess it depends on your definition of “privilege”. Lindsay was not qualified to be hired but she was hired due to something she earned - her legendary status. Does that mean it’s the right reason to hire someone? Absolutely not, but there are tons of incorrect reasons to hire someone that have nothing to do with privilege.

Pitino’s privilege was unearned. He was born into the right family. Lindsay’s “privilege” was earned, her actions and her accomplishments created her “privilege”.

Typically, when people talk about “privilege” it’s in the context of unearned advantages (white privilege, male privilege, etc.). You don’t hear people talk about “work ethic privilege” or “intelligence privilege” or “good decision privilege”.
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My definition of "privilege" is when someone is hired solely because of their name and they have no qualifications. Lindsay was a great player who worked hard at being a great player. As we know, coaching is a completely different animal. Playing the game and teaching the game are two different things. Playing the game around the world and recruiting 14-18 year olds who may or may not have heard of you are two different things. Playing the game and getting 18-21 year olds to do what you want them to do on and off the court 24/365 are very different things. Playing the game and managing a multi million dollar business are very different things. And so on. Lindsay had no experience at anything other than playing hoops and Coyle set her up to fail by letting her work two jobs during the critical first year.

It was a privilege hire.
 

jamiche said:
My definition of "privilege" is when someone is hired solely because of their name and they have no qualifications. Lindsay was a great player who worked hard at being a great player. As we know, coaching is a completely different animal. Playing the game and teaching the game are two different things. Playing the game around the world and recruiting 14-18 year olds who may or may not have heard of you are two different things. Playing the game and getting 18-21 year olds to do what you want them to do on and off the court 24/365 are very different things. Playing the game and managing a multi million dollar business are very different things. And so on. Lindsay had no experience at anything other than playing hoops and Coyle set her up to fail by letting her work two jobs during the critical first year.

It was a privilege hire.
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You spent a long time describing things we agree with that accurately describe why she wasn't a good hire.

She was hired because of her name. She has a name because of things she EARNED.
Pitino was hired because of his name. He has a name because of things he didn't EARN.

There is a difference to me. You're pretending there isn't one to you because you've dug in for whatever reason.
 

LongLiveMilesTarver said:
It's only going to get tougher for Ben to turn this around. At the start, no one knew anything about him and might take a chance on him. It is now clear that he's in over his head and no one with any sort of sense is going to trust him to be their path to wins or a professional career. I don't see how the talent level is going to increase until he's relieved of his duties.
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Pretty negative take. I’ll give him two more years to see substantial improvement. if no improvement by then move on and spend the money on an accomplished coach.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
You spent a long time describing things we agree with that accurately describe why she wasn't a good hire.

She was hired because of her name. She has a name because of things she EARNED.
Pitino was hired because of his name. He has a name because of things he didn't EARN.

There is a difference to me. You're pretending there isn't one to you because you've dug in for whatever reason.
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Sure. Whalen earned her name playing hoops. That and $4 will buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks as it applies to coaching. At least Pitino had about 8-10 years of coaching experience and one year as a HC. That allowed Norwood to claim there was some basis for the hire other than the name, even though everybody knew it wasn't true. Both were privilege hires.
 


jamiche said:
Sure. Whalen earned her name playing hoops. That and $4 will buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks as it applies to coaching. At least Pitino had about 8-10 years of coaching experience and one year as a HC. That allowed Norwood to claim there was some basis for the hire other than the name, even though everybody knew it wasn't true. Both were privilege hires.
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I wouldn't call your 8/9/10th option on your desired coaches list a privilege hire. He wasn't our first 2nd 3rd or 6th option
 








jamiche said:
My definition of "privilege" is when someone is hired solely because of their name and they have no qualifications. Lindsay was a great player who worked hard at being a great player. As we know, coaching is a completely different animal. Playing the game and teaching the game are two different things. Playing the game around the world and recruiting 14-18 year olds who may or may not have heard of you are two different things. Playing the game and getting 18-21 year olds to do what you want them to do on and off the court 24/365 are very different things. Playing the game and managing a multi million dollar business are very different things. And so on. Lindsay had no experience at anything other than playing hoops and Coyle set her up to fail by letting her work two jobs during the critical first year.

It was a privilege hire.
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Everyday. DEI.
 

jamiche said:
Sure. Whalen earned her name playing hoops. That and $4 will buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks as it applies to coaching. At least Pitino had about 8-10 years of coaching experience and one year as a HC. That allowed Norwood to claim there was some basis for the hire other than the name, even though everybody knew it wasn't true. Both were privilege hires.
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(A) You're wrong, again. There are tons of examples of people who went from player to coach and were hired because they excelled at playing the very thing they are now tasked with coaching. You are acting like people were thinking. . . Lindsay Whalen is a great singer, we should make her a basketball coach. She was GREAT at the very sport she was hired to coach.

Doc Rivers was never even an assistant coach before he was hired to coach the Magic.
Steve Kerr was never even an assistant coach before he was hired to coach the Warriors.

Just a couple of REALLY modern examples of guys who were great basketball players who used that and $4 to get a cup of coffee at Starbucks. . . and win multiple COY awards. . . and coach several All Star Games. . . and win a handful of NBA championships.

In case you're wondering, here are some other coaches who went from playing straight into coaching: Lenny Wilkens, Jason Kidd, Larry Bird, Steve Nash, Isiah Thomas, Bill Russell. Now if you add in guys with just a year or two of experience as an assistant, that list gets enormous.

My point: tons of people have been extremely successful transitioning almost immediately from player to coach.

When you dig in and pretend to miss a point, it forces you into a corner of truly horrible takes.


(B) More importantly, you completely missed the point which is not surprising because you're completely dug in on this abysmal take. Just because something isn't a good reason for hiring someone does not mean the hire was based on "privilege".

Lindsay earned her reputation. Doc Rivers earned his reputation. Steve Kerr earned his reputation. Does that mean that's a model that I'd use to hire a basketball coach, god no. I don't think it usually translates. However, they EARNED the very reason why they were hired. We can argue whether or not that is a good reason.

You're attempts to pretend to not understand the difference between unearned benefit and earned benefit have you clearly in knots trying to force logic into this take. You're now making arguments that Pitino was less of a privilege hire than Lindsay Whalen.

Pitino, who got every job in basketball because he was Rick Pitino's son, is less privileged than Lindsay Whalen who got every job coaching basketball because was a legend at playing basketball.

There isn't even a word for the type of "privilege" you're still pretending you think Lindsay Whalen has. She was an amazing basketball player from Minnesota and Coyle attempted to do his version of the countless examples in paragraph (a). I think it was a really bad decision by Coyle but it was not a "privilege" hire.
 




Bob_Loblaw said:
She was hired because of her name. She has a name because of things she EARNED.
Pitino was hired because of his name. He has a name because of things he didn't EARN.
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This seems pretty reasonable and simple to grasp.


But I'm wondering what, precisely, @SoMpls meant by:

Sad how angry people get over a diversity hire. Especially when the last mens and womens Coach were privilege hires


Was "privilege" in this sentence just used to mean something like "anti-diversity", or at least "lacking diversity", or was there more nuance to it than that?
 


Gophers_4life said:
This seems pretty reasonable and simple to grasp.


But I'm wondering what, precisely, @SoMpls meant by:

Sad how angry people get over a diversity hire. Especially when the last mens and womens Coach were privilege hires


Was "privilege" in this sentence just used to mean something like "anti-diversity", or at least "lacking diversity", or was there more nuance to it than that?
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People like him and JamJam are just trying to call people racist but don't have the courage to call people racist. So they'll pretend like they're all privilege hires and those of us against Ben's hiring are particularly upset with that one because he's black.

They are starting at the conclusion that we're racist and bending any sense of logic they have to get there.
It doesn't matter that most of us wanted Pitino canned.
It doesn't matter that most of us also wanted Lindsay canned.
It doesn't matter that most of us would have been ecstatic with Dennis Gates.
It doesn't matter that people like Howie and USAF are pretty progressive guys (I'm not ripping on them) and they are two of the most out-spoken Ben critics.
They need to figure out a way to call us racist (more accurately sheepishly hint that we're racist) for Ben's criticism.

I wouldn't go too deep into trying to figure out his "logic".
 


jamiche said:
Of course Lindsay was a privilege hire. She was an outstanding player with a highly recognizable name...who had never coached at the pee-wee level. Pitino also had a highly recognizable name and he actually had some coaching experience. Both were lousy at their jobs. To pretend that Pitino was a privilege hire and Lindsay wasn't is vacant thinking. Playing isn't coaching.
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I can't believe I'm adding to this, but here goes......

Was Lindsey a privilege hire? If you mean that she was hired based on her pre-coaching resume than I think that's true. But...was Dawn Staley a privilege hire? I guess the answer is yes. She and Whalen have nearly identical backgrounds. Both great college players, HOF WNBA players, gold-medal winning players. BOTH started their coaching careers while still playing in the WNBA (Staley at Temple and Whalen with the Gophers). NEITHER had prior coaching experience. I assume that Coyle was trying to replicate Staley when he made the hire. It was worth a shot. It didn't work out.

Johnson has a coaching background. Did his race have any bearing on being hired? I have no idea. I don't think anyone here knows that to be a fact. I also assume that the hiring had more to do with trying to keep local talent here and repairing the relationship with Minnesota high school coaches and AAU programs. Pitino had destroyed that by the time he was fired. So far, Johnson has been a disaster. I would be willing to bet big $$$ that if next year doesn't see us in some kind of postseason (at least the NIT) than he is gone.
 
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cheeseheadgophfan said:
Anybody heard anything about Eli King? :cautious::cautious::cautious:
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Feel free to start a new conversation about him in the thread!

Never ceases to amaze me how often when people make a post like this … they don’t actually attempt to restart the relevant topic themselves. It’s always supposed to just happen.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
(A) You're wrong, again. There are tons of examples of people who went from player to coach and were hired because they excelled at playing the very thing they are now tasked with coaching. You are acting like people were thinking. . . Lindsay Whalen is a great singer, we should make her a basketball coach. She was GREAT at the very sport she was hired to coach.

Doc Rivers was never even an assistant coach before he was hired to coach the Magic.
Steve Kerr was never even an assistant coach before he was hired to coach the Warriors.

Just a couple of REALLY modern examples of guys who were great basketball players who used that and $4 to get a cup of coffee at Starbucks. . . and win multiple COY awards. . . and coach several All Star Games. . . and win a handful of NBA championships.

In case you're wondering, here are some other coaches who went from playing straight into coaching: Lenny Wilkens, Jason Kidd, Larry Bird, Steve Nash, Isiah Thomas, Bill Russell. Now if you add in guys with just a year or two of experience as an assistant, that list gets enormous.

My point: tons of people have been extremely successful transitioning almost immediately from player to coach.

When you dig in and pretend to miss a point, it forces you into a corner of truly horrible takes.


(B) More importantly, you completely missed the point which is not surprising because you're completely dug in on this abysmal take. Just because something isn't a good reason for hiring someone does not mean the hire was based on "privilege".

Lindsay earned her reputation. Doc Rivers earned his reputation. Steve Kerr earned his reputation. Does that mean that's a model that I'd use to hire a basketball coach, god no. I don't think it usually translates. However, they EARNED the very reason why they were hired. We can argue whether or not that is a good reason.

You're attempts to pretend to not understand the difference between unearned benefit and earned benefit have you clearly in knots trying to force logic into this take. You're now making arguments that Pitino was less of a privilege hire than Lindsay Whalen.

Pitino, who got every job in basketball because he was Rick Pitino's son, is less privileged than Lindsay Whalen who got every job coaching basketball because was a legend at playing basketball.

There isn't even a word for the type of "privilege" you're still pretending you think Lindsay Whalen has. She was an amazing basketball player from Minnesota and Coyle attempted to do his version of the countless examples in paragraph (a). I think it was a really bad decision by Coyle but it was not a "privilege" hire.
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Excellent post in its entirety. Only disagree with the final sentence. It was not a bad decision to hire Lindsay Whalen. Given all the summary of her accomplishments and legend it was a no brainer.

It will take a lot of thought and study to figure out why a dead lock success scenario failed.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
People like him and JamJam are just trying to call people racist but don't have the courage to call people racist. So they'll pretend like they're all privilege hires and those of us against Ben's hiring are particularly upset with that one because he's black.

They are starting at the conclusion that we're racist and bending any sense of logic they have to get there.
It doesn't matter that most of us wanted Pitino canned.
It doesn't matter that most of us also wanted Lindsay canned.
It doesn't matter that most of us would have been ecstatic with Dennis Gates.
It doesn't matter that people like Howie and USAF are pretty progressive guys (I'm not ripping on them) and they are two of the most out-spoken Ben critics.
They need to figure out a way to call us racist (more accurately sheepishly hint that we're racist) for Ben's criticism.

I wouldn't go too deep into trying to figure out his "logic".
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Brush up on your use of the word "progressive".
 

Dakota2 said:
Excellent post in its entirety. Only disagree with the final sentence. It was not a bad decision to hire Lindsay Whalen. Given all the summary of her accomplishments and legend it was a no brainer.

It will take a lot of thought and study to figure out why a dead lock success scenario failed.
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Not much thought at all. She was a great player and not a great coach. She’s not the only one and she has nothing to be ashamed of. She signed on to help the U. It didn’t work out. So be it.
 

Has anyone at all heard if the Gophers have contacted Eli King at all since he hit the transfer portal? I know we recruited him pretty hard before he chose to play in Ames.
 

Holy Man said:
Not much thought at all. She was a great player and not a great coach. She’s not the only one and she has nothing to be ashamed of. She signed on to help the U. It didn’t work out. So be it.
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Being a great point guard, floor leader, team leader, and strategist is obvious preparation for coaching.

No one would expect Tanner Morgan to be a flop if he pursues coaching.
 

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