FiveStarFan
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Anything I can do to help but I'm sure you won't need much help.
Brew hot on two more JR's!
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Anything I can do to help but I'm sure you won't need much help.
tjgesquire
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Question for GG
Based on your criteria, I can't really think of any Gophers football coach within the last 50 years or so that would appease you. Can you please name someone that you think did an admirable job?
Based on your criteria, I can't really think of any Gophers football coach within the last 50 years or so that would appease you. Can you please name someone that you think did an admirable job?
I think Holtz would have done very well here if he had stayed around but overall I wouldn't really say anyone did a admirable or top notch job, if they did we would have been atleast been in the hunt for a big 10 title over the last 40 years. Mason did a decent job and improved from Wacker, but still would not classify it as admirable and he hit a plateau here towards the end, just my opinion.
tjgesquire
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too early now
That's is exactly why everyone has to wait to judge the current coach. After 4 years we should have a good gauge on where the program is and where it is heading. It's waaaaayyyyy to early to do that after 2 seasons.
What should be judged after 4 seasons is:
Closer/further away from contending for Big Ten Championship?
Are the academic standards being met?
Wins/Losses?
Big Ten record?
Is good talent being brought in?
What is the state/national perception of the program?
That's is exactly why everyone has to wait to judge the current coach. After 4 years we should have a good gauge on where the program is and where it is heading. It's waaaaayyyyy to early to do that after 2 seasons.
What should be judged after 4 seasons is:
Closer/further away from contending for Big Ten Championship?
Are the academic standards being met?
Wins/Losses?
Big Ten record?
Is good talent being brought in?
What is the state/national perception of the program?
We will agree to disagree on this as unlike Brewster Holtz had shown success at previous stops so therefore gets a longer leash imo, similar to what you see with Rich Rod at Michigan. He had a rough year this year but I don't know of many people that truly think he cannot and will not develop a winner there after doing it at West Virginia.
grunkiejr
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What I find interesting is the difference in opinion amongst Minnesota fans in regard to the direction of the program. I think some people see the talent improving and are willing to be patient for that to provide more W's and others look at W/L as the only indicator of a coach. I think the direction of the program will become more clear over the next two seasons and we'll see less divisiveness in our fan base.
I can say with confidence from reading national message boards that the perception nationally is that Minnesota is a program on the rise. More specifically, I read a thread the other day asking for up and comer programs. Minnesota wasn't the most frequently mentioned (North Carolina, Kansas, Cincinnati, Ole Miss, Arkansas, Michigan State) but Minnesota fell in right behind those programs as deserving of credit for the improvement. I also read another thread in which multiple Ohio State fans were defending the Big Ten and saying that it was improving and will be much better in the next few years as Michigan gets back to being Michigan, and Michigan State and Minnesota continue to make their rise to the next level. Ohio State fans have no reason to be biased about Minnesota to the positive or negative so I take it as the educated opinions in areas outside of Minnesota and our closest rivals.
Obviously, we are all closer to the program and know more about what is going on from a day-to-day basis but sometimes that also makes it hard to see the forest from the trees. I think many of our fans see 4* and 5* players coming in on visits and we naturally think getting those guys will help us get to the next level faster. If those players commit elsewhere we feel like our program has somehow failed but the reality is that we are still bringing in better players than we have in the past, we just aren't moving as quickly as some fans would like. One needs to look no further than the other thread on this site about whether the 3 year plan is still in place. Program building take a long time and it includes bringing in better players --> coaching up that talent --> winning big games --> getting fans to jump on the bus to improve the game day experience which in turn helps to bring in even better players and the cycle continues. Virignia Tech is the perfect example of what we would like to build here and Beamer has been coaching there for 22 years. It took him 9 years to get to a BCS bowl but he was continually improving the quality of the program and has built them in to a consistent winner.
I can say with confidence from reading national message boards that the perception nationally is that Minnesota is a program on the rise. More specifically, I read a thread the other day asking for up and comer programs. Minnesota wasn't the most frequently mentioned (North Carolina, Kansas, Cincinnati, Ole Miss, Arkansas, Michigan State) but Minnesota fell in right behind those programs as deserving of credit for the improvement. I also read another thread in which multiple Ohio State fans were defending the Big Ten and saying that it was improving and will be much better in the next few years as Michigan gets back to being Michigan, and Michigan State and Minnesota continue to make their rise to the next level. Ohio State fans have no reason to be biased about Minnesota to the positive or negative so I take it as the educated opinions in areas outside of Minnesota and our closest rivals.
Obviously, we are all closer to the program and know more about what is going on from a day-to-day basis but sometimes that also makes it hard to see the forest from the trees. I think many of our fans see 4* and 5* players coming in on visits and we naturally think getting those guys will help us get to the next level faster. If those players commit elsewhere we feel like our program has somehow failed but the reality is that we are still bringing in better players than we have in the past, we just aren't moving as quickly as some fans would like. One needs to look no further than the other thread on this site about whether the 3 year plan is still in place. Program building take a long time and it includes bringing in better players --> coaching up that talent --> winning big games --> getting fans to jump on the bus to improve the game day experience which in turn helps to bring in even better players and the cycle continues. Virignia Tech is the perfect example of what we would like to build here and Beamer has been coaching there for 22 years. It took him 9 years to get to a BCS bowl but he was continually improving the quality of the program and has built them in to a consistent winner.
harrys ghost
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So, what did you think when Mason was originally hired? I know I was underwhelmed but gave him a chance. How about hiring John Gutekunst when the boosters had Bobby Ross ready to go in the wings? Both these guys had either head coach or coordinator experience. Unfortunately, neither could recruit worth a lick. Wacker left Mason three future first team all-americans. What did Mason leave Brewster?
Most fans want the team to succeed regardless of who is at the helm. I think many people are encouraged by Brewster because he, at least according to the rating services, is bringing in better athletes. I, for one, much prefer his game day coaching to Mason's. So, for now, I am fine with Brewster.
3-14 vs. BCS teams. Five game losing streak. 0-6 in trophy games. 55-0 home loss to Iowa.
How could anyone not see the improvement over what we had before? Simple, people see what they want to see. Whereas I thought the final score of the Iowa game flattered our O line, you probably saw a young O-line coming together.
In the short run "you can fool all of the people some of the time and fool some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."
How could anyone not see the improvement over what we had before? Simple, people see what they want to see. Whereas I thought the final score of the Iowa game flattered our O line, you probably saw a young O-line coming together.
In the short run "you can fool all of the people some of the time and fool some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."
50PoundHead
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I don't think the Hawkeyes "flattered" our offensive line.
In my heart of hearts, I would have preferred Pelini as he's the consummate football guy. But then, so was Frank Solich. The Nebraska fan base is more brutal, but also more knowledgeable. Brewster has to drum up excitement in the town where there's a professional football team. Hence, his approach of getting banner headlines is warranted to some extent. I think he goes overboard a lot, but I can step back and see the logic and detach from it.
I thought Mason was decent, but he might have won 4 games with the 2007 team. Brewster came in and changed things up and suffered the consequences, but we were always at a talent disadvantage at every position except running back during the Mason years. The cupboard was bare and interest was continuing to wane. The program was moribund. Whether Brewster is the right guy to breathe life into the program remains to be seen, but I am willing to give him a chance.
I agree with Lawrence21 that the HC position is overrated and, in my mind, is more about PR than anything else these days. Brewster is learning on the job about hiring the right guys and that is unfortunate, but he is at least showing a willingness to put his staff together and change it when he doesn't like it.
As for the original subject of the post, it's good to see Brewster working the underclassmen. Recruiting is all about early and often.
In my heart of hearts, I would have preferred Pelini as he's the consummate football guy. But then, so was Frank Solich. The Nebraska fan base is more brutal, but also more knowledgeable. Brewster has to drum up excitement in the town where there's a professional football team. Hence, his approach of getting banner headlines is warranted to some extent. I think he goes overboard a lot, but I can step back and see the logic and detach from it.
I thought Mason was decent, but he might have won 4 games with the 2007 team. Brewster came in and changed things up and suffered the consequences, but we were always at a talent disadvantage at every position except running back during the Mason years. The cupboard was bare and interest was continuing to wane. The program was moribund. Whether Brewster is the right guy to breathe life into the program remains to be seen, but I am willing to give him a chance.
I agree with Lawrence21 that the HC position is overrated and, in my mind, is more about PR than anything else these days. Brewster is learning on the job about hiring the right guys and that is unfortunate, but he is at least showing a willingness to put his staff together and change it when he doesn't like it.
As for the original subject of the post, it's good to see Brewster working the underclassmen. Recruiting is all about early and often.
tjgesquire
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dpodoll68
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GG, the main problem in your agenda is that you equate staying at a position long-term with some sort of inadequacy. After he was hired, he said something to the effect of "I don't chase titles...I chase knowledge" (I know that's not exact, but that's the gist of it). He wanted to work with Mack Brown as long as he felt he needed, and then moved to the NFL to work under Marty Schottenheimer so that he could refine the X's and O's side of his resume (after focusing mostly on recruiting for 13 years under Brown). After having learned what he needed from Schottenheimer, he moved on to Shanahan. It would be difficult to find any 3 living gentleman with more combined knowledge of football than those 3. He said he stayed where he was because he wanted to learn from them, and neither you nor I have any reason to not believe him. When he felt he was ready, he interviewed for head coaching jobs, and someone was certainly impressed enough with him to offer a job. Ever heard of Pennsylvania State University? They hired a coach who "hadn't been promoted" for 16 years before he got the job. Can anybody tell me how that worked out for them? I'm not sure...
I am a Brewster fan, you're not...and that's fine. But to label the man as a failure or a bust after 2 seasons on the job is just plain asinine. You wanted someone else...great, it was 2 years ago, get over it. What exactly will Brewster have to achieve for you to shut your big mouth? If the Brewster era ends in resounding defeat with his dismissal, then and only then can you say "I told you so." Until then, shut the hell up and support the University from which you allegedly graduated. You keep spouting about "having higher expectations" as a justification of your personal dislike for the man. How can you know that our expectations are lower after 2 years?
I am a Brewster fan, you're not...and that's fine. But to label the man as a failure or a bust after 2 seasons on the job is just plain asinine. You wanted someone else...great, it was 2 years ago, get over it. What exactly will Brewster have to achieve for you to shut your big mouth? If the Brewster era ends in resounding defeat with his dismissal, then and only then can you say "I told you so." Until then, shut the hell up and support the University from which you allegedly graduated. You keep spouting about "having higher expectations" as a justification of your personal dislike for the man. How can you know that our expectations are lower after 2 years?
Better than what it has been the last two seasons? No? Even without the new stadium? If you never have a lead you can never lose a lead.
As for the Music City Bowl, we did not go to the Alamo Bowl because our fan base stinks. It improved under the previous coach but is now down again. The only bowl we are going to earn without fans is the Rose Bowl. By the way, I liked the Sun Bowl and the Insight Bowl more than the Music City Bowl, but I will take any bowl over no bowl. By one million miles.
As for the Music City Bowl, we did not go to the Alamo Bowl because our fan base stinks. It improved under the previous coach but is now down again. The only bowl we are going to earn without fans is the Rose Bowl. By the way, I liked the Sun Bowl and the Insight Bowl more than the Music City Bowl, but I will take any bowl over no bowl. By one million miles.
grunkiejr
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FWIW-Ferentz has never been a coordinator either. He has been an OL coach and a HC. His situation is slightly different because he was a HC at D2 or DI-AA Maine (I have no idea what division they are) for a few years before going back to being an OL coach at a higher level. But Iowa hired him as HC from a position as OL coach for the Cleveland Browns.
dpodoll68
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Wrong. Even if we don't win the conference, if we are 7-1 or 6-2, a higher-level bowl has to take us. They have no choice. Or is the Capital One Bowl/Outback Bowl not good enough for your highness?
Was I hallucinating on December 31, 2008, or were the Minnesota Golden Gophers playing in a bowl game that day? About 5ish?
You are correct, he was a HC which is huge because he had experience hiring a stuff and running a program and all that this entails from the media, boosters, recruiting, coaching, etc.. Being a manager in any company is a lot different than being a worker bee and that experience to draw on is invaluable, regardless of the level. As I recall Jim Tressel made a pretty seamless transition from HC at Youngstown State to Ohio State because he already knew how to run a program and hire a staff.
I will shut my mouth when Brewster shuts his as there is no one in the state that has a bigger one than him. I love Brewsters sorry answer for never getting promoted "I don't chase titles...I chase knowledge", sounds like a spin job for a guy who wasn't offered a promotion and has to try and justify it somehow. If he wanted to chase knowledge wouldn't moving to a coordinator be the next logical step in that chase for knowledge. He must be a slow learner then if it took him 17 years to finish acquire the knowledge needed as a TE coach to finally move on to that next step. I love how you supposedly think you cannot support the university because you do not support the head coach. So I guess then according to this logic when everyone was calling for Wacker or Mason's firings that those people were not supporting the University, were you one of them?
dpodoll68
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He is paid to promote the University of Minnesota. Are you? As others have said, he needs to have a little huff and bluster to get people interested in the program, something you don't have to do at schools that have won something in 40 years.
So you're calling Tim Brewster a liar. You're saying he's flat-out lying. If he wants to stay and learn from Mack Brown, how is he supposed to force him to promote him to an OC? Of course he could've gone to (insert random University here), but then he wouldn't be learning from one of the best. And I guess Joe Paterno must've been a "slow learner" too. You are such a condescending ass.
You are not being supportive of "your" school because you mock and ridicule every decision they've made regarding the program since Jan. 17, 2007. You say that Maturi is an idiot for hiring him, that Bruininks is an idiot for allowing Maturi to continue his employment, which means that the Board of Regents are idiots for allowing Bruininks to continue his employment, which means that the University of Minnesota is a bunch of idiots for allowing the current Regents to continue their appointments. Jim Wacker was allowed 5 years to coach this team, and during his tenure, they won 2, 3, 1, 1, and 1 games in the Big Ten. If anything, the team got worse while he was here. Glen Mason was allowed 10 years to coach this team, and during his tenure, the team was okay, but mediocre, and the last few years he did nothing but pout that he hadn't yet been offered a better job. Anybody who's not fooling themselves could plainly see that both needed to go, and in Mason's case, probably sooner than he did. I was living in South Dakota during the Wacker years, and attending jr. high/high school. I barely even knew the Gophers existed at that point. But Mason was hired the year before my freshman year of college, and I supported him during his tenure here, until I realized that it was time for him to go. How can you make this assessment of Brewster after 2 years, especially when last year was unquestionably the most successful since 2005?
tjgesquire
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You must be confused
The "fan base" that you refer to as being down is not the Gophers' fan base. You/they are Glen Mason fan base, no one acknowledges you/them as part of the Gopher fan base. We've all grown tired of your retread comments and jealousy.
Some people don't provide a reason to be fired until after they have been fired.
The "fan base" that you refer to as being down is not the Gophers' fan base. You/they are Glen Mason fan base, no one acknowledges you/them as part of the Gopher fan base. We've all grown tired of your retread comments and jealousy.
Some people don't provide a reason to be fired until after they have been fired.
RodentRampage
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Why does Brewster's optismism offend you so much?
Wacker had 5 years here. His BEST record was 4-7. Mason had 10 years here.
GophersInIowa
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Do you know for sure that he was never offered a coordinator job somewhere? Not every coach wants to rise to the top as fast as they can. Three years ago, I was offered a better and higher pay job than what I had at the time, but turned it down because it just wasn't the right time. There are many coaches who have been coordinators for a long time that won't even interview for a head coaching job because they don't want it. I have no idea if this was the case with Brewster, but I figured I'd point it out that it is possible. You think you know everything about Brewster's past when really you nor I have no idea.
You've been critical of the assistant coaches Brewster has hired. Some of not worked out, but some have. Ted Roof was a great hire. Was it Brewster's fault Roof left after one season?
Actually I have never ripped or even mentioned the regents. I have also had nothing but praise for President Bruininks, after all he was the one that had the courage to step in and tell Maturi to fire Mason and Monson. As you stated, "But Mason was hired the year before my freshman year of college, and I supported him during his tenure here, until I realized that it was time for him to go. How can you make this assessment of Brewster after 2 years, especially when last year was unquestionably the most successful since 2005?" I am doing the same thing as you, I just realized it was time for Brewster to go possibly earlier than you realized it was time for Mason to go, no difference. You talk about our success since 2005, wow going back 3 whole years. You forgot to mention how we fell apart to end the season last year in the weakest big ten conference in many many years, but if that is what you want to call a huge success I guess it is a matter of context, especially after having the worse year ever the previous season. I guess you would have to call that a success. Thanks for sharing though, I really appreciate your opinions and insight.
GophersInIowa
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With all do respect, it seems you made your decision about Brewster the moment he was hired. That's fine if you think it was a bad hire, but I think because you hated the hire so much in the beginning, you're never going to like him no matter what he does and will never give him a fair chance.
I don't think most fans, including myself, know for sure that Brewster is "the guy" for the job, but we will at least give him a chance.
I was a big fan of Ted Roof and I do not blame Brewster at all for him leaving. If you do look at Brewsters record he definitely seemed willing to move, so I would assume he would be willing to move around the country for a coordinator job if offered if he did it for a position coach job.
You can think that if you like, fine with me. I actually did not make my mind up about him from the start, but his constant promising and under delivering grew tired.
This year is a perfect example of why Brewster needs to get in the kids ears early and often. He was not able to pick up squat after the 5 game skid to end the year. Next year there are going to be some big recruiting weekends early in the season, especially the Becky game.
GophersInIowa
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So the only reason no one would ever accept another job is because it would mean moving around the country? There are a lot of other reasons. For example, getting an offer to be the offensive coordinator job for a program like Ball St. or something may not be that glamorous when he was currently the Assistant Head Coach in San Diego and getting to coach Antonio Gates every day. Don't know if anything like that happened but just to show you that it's not always just about moving around the country.
GophersInIowa
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So really what you're saying is that you just don't like his personality? Then don't listen to him. Simple as that.
Also, its hard to not think you didn't like him right away because you're on here always saying we should have hired this guy or that guy.
harrys ghost
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Ah, the old promises saw. How about you give us five promises Brewster has made and not delivered on.
dpodoll68
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2 years!!!! You've made your decision within 2 years?!?!??!?? How is that even possible? I would really like to have your powers of insight, honestly.
Show me once where I ever said or even remotely implied "huge success." I am and always will be a huge fan of this team, but I will be first in line to say that this program hasn't accomplished squat in over 40 years. Oh, and I forgot, you can judge someone on the basis of 5 games. It's a good thing USC ran Carroll out on a rail after he started 1-4 there. Or that Penn St. fired Paterno after he lost 6 straight in 2003. Speaking of which, when are you going to call out Penn St. for hiring a guy who hadn't been promoted in 16 years?