Ben Johnson is a Disaster

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GFBfan said:
Is that Coach Johnsons fault? No. He got hired by Mark Coyle. Have you started a AD Coyle is a disaster thread yet?
He's our coach. He's learning on the job in a major conference. Give him time.
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I didn’t start this thread. Coyle is a disaster for basketball, but has been good for hockey and football. But specifically for basketball, nothing needs to be said on Coyle.

But back to CBJ and the men’s basketball program. A true fan, one who puts the program above all else, especially feelings, would realize CBJ is not the coach and we need to cut bait. Why spend the next 2-4 years in purgatory before you make that decision. Again, it’s about the program, not about CBJ, who clearly is in over his head.
 

GFBfan said:
Not comparing the programs, I compared the coaches from when they started their HC career and at no point in my comparison did I make an excuse for Coach Johnson. Who's the one who started this thread a month into his second season. That is a new low.
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It was obvious at that point he was a bad coach. The timing on this thread is was/is accurate.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
It doesn't have to be either/or. I don't think anyone on this board is expecting "immediate results" in the sense that we are expecting this year to look like what the finished product would hopefully be for a coach 4 or 5 years in. What I (and many others) are saying is that it also isn't appropriate to have no standards whatsoever for team performance in year 2 and to expect fans to be totally blind to the on court product. I was reasonably satisfied with how the team looked last year for the first year with the personnel changes, even though that kind of B1G record would be a fireable offense (in my opinion) several years in (certainly if it happened with any regularity). This year is different. We look horrendous in almost every way. We not only look to be on pace for a second consecutive last place finish (last year we were tied in last place), but barring significant improvement down the stretch, we are pretty bad even as measured against past last place B1G teams. So this is beyond "somebody has to finish last" territory, and into the "no B1G team should be this bad" zone.
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Like it or not....this is Ben Johnson's first true HS class on the court this year. The time he had to fill the roster that first year had him cobbling together whatever he could find. People lose sight of that.

And....I'm not giving him a pass on the results this year. But he's bringing in higher end talent. I want to see what his team looks like once he's had a few recruiting cycles. If we're still finishing towards the bottom of the pack in year four....I'd expect him to be gone.
 


GFBfan said:
Not comparing the programs, I compared the coaches from when they started their HC career and at no point in my comparison did I make an excuse for Coach Johnson. Who's the one who started this thread a month into his second season. That is a new low.
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I definitely didn't start it prematurely as this season has only gotten worse. I could have started it this summer when I warned everyone how terrible this team was going to be. They're now even worse than I imagined at that point.

Pikiell started at Stony Brook 17 years ago. Times have changed. Plus it's Stony Brook, their resources are a little different, and their basketball team isn't expected to make 6-10 million in profit every year like the Gophers are.
 

not to sound like a broken record, but.....

I keep seeing people using variations of "just go out and get some guys from the portal."

If it was that easy, every D1 program in the country would be winning.

the "guys from the portal" have to be willing to transfer to your school.

right now, the Gophers can offer a top PG playing time. But they can't offer a big sack of NIL cash, and they can't offer a chance to win a conference title or make a big run in the NCAA tournament.

If you're being realistic, you can't just hold out the portal as a miracle cure for whatever ails your program. It's not that easy or that simple.

the Gophers' portal acquisitions up to now have either been players with MN ties coming home, or players from mid-level programs. maybe there's a reason for that?

or to put it more bluntly, if you were a top PG, why the f*ck should you transfer to MN?
 

short ornery norwegian said:
not to sound like a broken record, but.....

I keep seeing people using variations of "just go out and get some guys from the portal."

If it was that easy, every D1 program in the country would be winning.

the "guys from the portal" have to be willing to transfer to your school.

right now, the Gophers can offer a top PG playing time. But they can't offer a big sack of NIL cash, and they can't offer a chance to win a conference title or make a big run in the NCAA tournament.

If you're being realistic, you can't just hold out the portal as a miracle cure for whatever ails your program. It's not that easy or that simple.

the Gophers' portal acquisitions up to now have either been players with MN ties coming home, or players from mid-level programs. maybe there's a reason for that?

or to put it more bluntly, if you were a top PG, why the f*ck should you transfer to MN?
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With CBJ as a coach, I wouldn’t. With a real coach, that changes things
 

short ornery norwegian said:
not to sound like a broken record, but.....

I keep seeing people using variations of "just go out and get some guys from the portal."

If it was that easy, every D1 program in the country would be winning.

the "guys from the portal" have to be willing to transfer to your school.

right now, the Gophers can offer a top PG playing time. But they can't offer a big sack of NIL cash, and they can't offer a chance to win a conference title or make a big run in the NCAA tournament.

If you're being realistic, you can't just hold out the portal as a miracle cure for whatever ails your program. It's not that easy or that simple.

the Gophers' portal acquisitions up to now have either been players with MN ties coming home, or players from mid-level programs. maybe there's a reason for that?

or to put it more bluntly, if you were a top PG, why the f*ck should you transfer to MN?
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Is anyone asking for a "top" pg? We're asking for basic competence and to not be one of the worst 2-3 programs in the Power 6. The bar is incredibly low and they still can't clear it.
 



howeda7 said:
Is anyone asking for a "top" pg? We're asking for basic competence and to not be one of the worst 2-3 programs in the Power 6. The bar is incredibly low and they still can't clear it.
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It's amazing how disingenuous some of the responses to critics of this season have been. They say things like "we aren't Duke, so your expectations can't be that high." Saying "we should at least be in track to win 5 or 6 conference games" is not expecting us to be Duke.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
not to sound like a broken record, but.....

I keep seeing people using variations of "just go out and get some guys from the portal."

If it was that easy, every D1 program in the country would be winning.

the "guys from the portal" have to be willing to transfer to your school.

right now, the Gophers can offer a top PG playing time. But they can't offer a big sack of NIL cash, and they can't offer a chance to win a conference title or make a big run in the NCAA tournament.

If you're being realistic, you can't just hold out the portal as a miracle cure for whatever ails your program. It's not that easy or that simple.

the Gophers' portal acquisitions up to now have either been players with MN ties coming home, or players from mid-level programs. maybe there's a reason for that?

or to put it more bluntly, if you were a top PG, why the f*ck should you transfer to MN?
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Wanted average D1 guard who could get major minutes seems like it could get consideration ?
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
I didn’t start this thread. Coyle is a disaster for basketball, but has been good for hockey and football. But specifically for basketball, nothing needs to be said on Coyle.

But back to CBJ and the men’s basketball program. A true fan, one who puts the program above all else, especially feelings, would realize CBJ is not the coach and we need to cut bait. Why spend the next 2-4 years in purgatory before you make that decision. Again, it’s about the program, not about CBJ, who clearly is in over his head.
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Yeah you definitely get to define who a true fan is… You get your opinion just like others do. No one is a bad fan for still holding out hope that Ben can turn this around. That logic is the same as the guys saying those whom are critical of Ben are not true fans.
 
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Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
With CBJ as a coach, I wouldn’t. With a real coach, that changes things
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Anyone who’s actually met and watch Ben coach knows he’s a real one. Whether he succeeds here doesn’t dictate if he’s a real coach or not. He’s good with schematics and a great relationship builder. He’s obviously not landed a PG we need. I’m sure he’s aware.
 



short ornery norwegian said:
not to sound like a broken record, but.....

I keep seeing people using variations of "just go out and get some guys from the portal."

If it was that easy, every D1 program in the country would be winning.

the "guys from the portal" have to be willing to transfer to your school.

right now, the Gophers can offer a top PG playing time. But they can't offer a big sack of NIL cash, and they can't offer a chance to win a conference title or make a big run in the NCAA tournament.

If you're being realistic, you can't just hold out the portal as a miracle cure for whatever ails your program. It's not that easy or that simple.

the Gophers' portal acquisitions up to now have either been players with MN ties coming home, or players from mid-level programs. maybe there's a reason for that?

or to put it more bluntly, if you were a top PG, why the f*ck should you transfer to MN?
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Spot on SON, but this will just be considered “excuses” by folks who are thinking that way. Some folks act like Ben doesn’t think or isn’t aware he needs a better PG.
 


Formerswish said:
Some of us don't mind

I think a lot of people on this board don't mind a mature exchange of opinions. It would be nice if everyone could follow through with that thinking.
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How about the view:

PikIell at Rutgers was atrocious the first two years, CBJ's recruiting so far is better. Now Piekel is winning and signed through 2030.

Fire Pikiell after season 2?

How about that view.

So I get that others would rather have the CBJ contract go to a more experienced coach and now fans are stuck with CBJ awhile. And yet his assembling players in steps is intriguing.

Some have already declared Christie and Evens underperformers.
 

The chorus is growing louder and louder. "Pikiell should have been fired after season two! He stunk."

Yes he did. But by year 4 he was good and then after that very good.

Fire after year 2?????

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Gopherfan84 said:
Anyone who’s actually met and watch Ben coach knows he’s a real one. Whether he succeeds here doesn’t dictate if he’s a real coach or not. He’s good with schematics and a great relationship builder. He’s obviously not landed a PG we need. I’m sure he’s aware.
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And what data do you have that he’s a real one? He’s been an assistant at shot programs his entire career and his only track record as a head coach is historically bad…yet you believe he is the real deal…what kool-aid are you drinking from?

At this point we may as well just assume everyone who’s been an assistant at terrible programs is the real deal, screw their records…they seem legit.

His career trajectory is aligning nicely to SBF
 

I don't think too many of us here believe that Johnson should stay on for multiple years if he's not showing progress. But as previously noted this is really his first HS class on the court this year. And some of you have already determined that he can't coach. Like any other coach who's been hired, he deserves a chance to prove he can produce a good team.
 

Gopherfan84 said:
Spot on SON, but this will just be considered “excuses” by folks who are thinking that way. Some folks act like Ben doesn’t think or isn’t aware he needs a better PG.
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Is he though? Who was he really after at PG other than Cooper in the portal last offseason? He was after some other 2 guards, but not really another PG. He's also made comments about Christie and Carrington being PG's, and Ihnen being a 2 guard.

That's in addition to the gluttony of PF's on this team, and overall terrible roster construction. That's what gives me virtually no hope for the future. Ben seems to truly believe he can win with that type of roster construction, even though it's brutally obvious he can't.
 

Gopherfan84 said:
Anyone who’s actually met and watch Ben coach knows he’s a real one. Whether he succeeds here doesn’t dictate if he’s a real coach or not. He’s good with schematics and a great relationship builder. He’s obviously not landed a PG we need. I’m sure he’s aware.
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Ben is the answer to our prayers here in Gopherland. His career has been one winning campaign after another. We owe him as much time as needed to get MN a basketball winner.
 

Formerswish said:
I don't think too many of us here believe that Johnson should stay on for multiple years if he's not showing progress. But as previously noted this is really his first HS class on the court this year. And some of you have already determined that he can't coach. Like any other coach who's been hired, he deserves a chance to prove he can produce a good team.
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You are 5.5 hours from no longer liking Ben as a coach. I do appreciate your sincerity .
 



Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
And what data do you have that he’s a real one? He’s been an assistant at shot programs his entire career and his only track record as a head coach is historically bad…yet you believe he is the real deal…what kool-aid are you drinking from?

At this point we may as well just assume everyone who’s been an assistant at terrible programs is the real deal, screw their records…they seem legit.

His career trajectory is aligning nicely to SBF
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You said real coach. He is one. He’s well thought of by his peers. Never said he was an elite one who will turn this program around. Two different convos.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Is he though? Who was he really after at PG other than Cooper in the portal last offseason? He was after some other 2 guards, but not really another PG. He's also made comments about Christie and Carrington being PG's, and Ihnen being a 2 guard.

That's in addition to the gluttony of PF's on this team, and overall terrible roster construction. That's what gives me virtually no hope for the future. Ben seems to truly believe he can win with that type of roster construction, even though it's brutally obvious he can't.
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No you’re right. He has no clue…. He literally just chose to not get better guards.
 


Gopherfan84 said:
No you’re right. He has no clue…. He literally just chose to not get better guards.
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Well at one point last spring we had 2 scholarships open. We filled those with Samuels and Ramburg. So either Ben 1. thought our G's were good enough or 2. Couldn't get anyone worth a damn to fill those spots.

Either way that is a huge failure and a giant reason I don't see the G situation fixing itself this off-season.
 

leib0039 said:
Well at one point last spring we had 2 scholarships open. We filled those with Samuels and Ramburg. So either Ben 1. thought our G's were good enough or 2. Couldn't get anyone worth a damn to fill those spots.

Either way that is a huge failure and a giant reason I don't see the G situation fixing itself this off-season.
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He filled them with Ramburg and Betts. Samuels was brought on earlier but your point still stands. I think it was mostly #2. Correct it’s been a failure so far. He can’t afford to wiff again.
 

Gopher Hole Current Arguments (sarcasm alert)

Argument 1: PikIell at Rutgers should have been fired after year 3.

Argument 2: PikIell at Rutgers should have been fired after year 2!

Argument 3: PikIell at Rutgers should have been fired after year 1!!

Argument 4: PikIell at Rutgers should never been hired. He should never have been hired!!!

Argument 5: Fire the AD! Clean house!

Argument 6: Guys, he and Rutgers are 16-7, 8-4 in the Big Ten. Good that you boneheads didn 't get him fired at year 2!!
 

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