Ben Johnson is a Disaster

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Thought exercise: would a detached, objective, reasonable person choose Johnson over Pitino at this moment? In other words, what must this look like from the outside right now? It must look like that guy who traded a paper clip for a house except in reverse.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Thought exercise: would a detached, objective, reasonable person choose Johnson over Pitino at this moment? In other words, what must this look like from the outside right now? It must look like that guy who traded a paper clip for a house except in reverse.
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Are you looking at a single season in a bubble? Or are you asking if a reasonable person would have preferred to give Pitino another four years to trot out what he had given us for eight years already? Somebody who has an idea of how college sports work would absolutely prefer to have moved on from Pitino. He wasn't the guy. Maybe you don't get the guy with your next hire. Maybe it isn't the next two guys. But Pitino wasn't the guy and that was clear. It was time to move on.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Thought exercise: would a detached, objective, reasonable person choose Johnson over Pitino at this moment? In other words, what must this look like from the outside right now? It must look like that guy who traded a paper clip for a house except in reverse.
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I don't want either of them, but I'd choose Pitino, who's on the verge of his 3rd NCAA bid over what we have now.
 



stocker08 said:
Are you looking at a single season in a bubble? Or are you asking if a reasonable person would have preferred to give Pitino another four years to trot out what he had given us for eight years already? Somebody who has an idea of how college sports work would absolutely prefer to have moved on from Pitino. He wasn't the guy. Maybe you don't get the guy with your next hire. Maybe it isn't the next two guys. But Pitino wasn't the guy and that was clear. It was time to move on.
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I realize this is an uncomfortable question. Who would an outside observer conclude is the better program builder? The answer is obvious.
 

After losing by 3 @ Wisconsin, in OT vs Nebraska and winning @ tOSU the Gophers have lost 7 straight games by an average score of 73-53. Amazingly two of those losses were by 4.
 

Absolute. Fucking. Disaster.

Wait, no. That completely undersells the situation.

Whatever is several orders of magnitude worse than that.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Thought exercise: would a detached, objective, reasonable person choose Johnson over Pitino at this moment? In other words, what must this look like from the outside right now? It must look like that guy who traded a paper clip for a house except in reverse.
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I hated Pitino, and he was here at least 2 years too long, but he was miles better than Johnson.
 



Bad Gopher said:
I realize this is an uncomfortable question. Who would an outside observer conclude is the better program builder? The answer is obvious.
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If you are asking someone who knows anything about college basketball.....they'd choose Ben Johnson. Hasn't been two years. Results are inconclusive. Pitino got eight years and had us trending backwards for three straight. Pretty obvious.
 

stocker08 said:
If you are asking someone who knows anything about college basketball.....they'd choose Ben Johnson. Hasn't been two years. Results are inconclusive. Pitino got eight years and had us trending backwards for three straight. Pretty obvious.
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What's that line from Willy Wonka: "I know a worse one." In this case, a worse trend.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
After losing by 3 @ Wisconsin, in OT vs Nebraska and winning @ tOSU the Gophers have lost 7 straight games by an average score of 73-53. Amazingly two of those losses were by 4.
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You do realize that we've been missing Carrington for six of those games.....and Garcia (who's our best player) for five. Had a thin bench prior to them getting injured.
 

Bad Gopher said:
What's that line from Willy Wonka: "I know a worse one." In this case, a worse trend.
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So you're speaking from the perspective of someone who knows little about college basketball?
 

stocker08 said:
So you're speaking from the perspective of someone who knows little about college basketball?
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Listen, I know we're missing Garcia and Carrington. But I also know we didn't use all our scholarships.

Someone who knows college basketball knows the Gophers hired an objectively unqualified coach.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Listen, I know we're missing Garcia and Carrington. But I also know we didn't use all our scholarships.
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The guard position falls directly on Ben. Maybe he finds another senior transfer to take some minutes with that final scholarship. But I'm guessing that because he brought in Samuels....that there wasn't a whole lot out there.

If the team is going to take any significant step next year....he absolutely needs a transfer guard that can play. We'll see. If things don't start trending in the right direction.....Johnson will be gone in a couple years. Still doesn't mean hanging onto to Pitino was the right move. Eight years proved he wasn't the right guy. Start rolling the dice and hope to land that guy.
 

I am very disappointed. No question about that.

But some of the criticism here falls into the realm of "if we would have done ________, then everything would be better."

that's easy to say, and impossible to prove.

sure, if the Gophers would have hired Coach X or Coach Y instead of Johnson, things would be different. Would they be better? Possibly. But again, there is NO way to prove that. so in that sense, it's a pointless argument.
there are no mulligans in real life.

the current reality is the current reality. all anyone can do is to watch (or not watch) and wait to see what happens.

or - find Coyle's secret bunker - bring him out of cryogenic suspension - re-install his spine - and see if he is willing or able to do something.

(actually, my new idea is that Coyle is existing as a disembodied head in a pan - like the classic B-movie "The Thing that wouldn't die." Or "Re-Animator," if that is more your speed.)
 

stocker08 said:
You do realize that we've been missing Carrington for six of those games.....and Garcia (who's our best player) for five. Had a thin bench prior to them getting injured.
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If they play we might lose by 25 instead of 35.
 


stocker08 said:
You do realize that we've been missing Carrington for six of those games.....and Garcia (who's our best player) for five. Had a thin bench prior to them getting injured.
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What I posted is a fact. I don’t need every post to have tons of commentary. If you think it’s been good hoops as of late, great. Enjoy the games and the building process through thick and thin.

Lots of teams are missing guys. Carrington isnt great—I don’t think he changes the outcome of a single game he’s missed. Missing Garcia has hurt. He makes them more competitive. Hopefully he is here next year.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I am very disappointed. No question about that.

But some of the criticism here falls into the realm of "if we would have done ________, then everything would be better."

that's easy to say, and impossible to prove.

sure, if the Gophers would have hired Coach X or Coach Y instead of Johnson, things would be different. Would they be better? Possibly. But again, there is NO way to prove that. so in that sense, it's a pointless argument.
there are no mulligans in real life.

the current reality is the current reality. all anyone can do is to watch (or not watch) and wait to see what happens.

or - find Coyle's secret bunker - bring him out of cryogenic suspension - re-install his spine - and see if he is willing or able to do something.

(actually, my new idea is that Coyle is existing as a disembodied head in a pan - like the classic B-movie "The Thing that wouldn't die." Or "Re-Animator," if that is more your speed.)
Click to expand...

It’s almost a certainty things would be better under another coach. This is a bottom 3 program in P6.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
I am very disappointed. No question about that.

But some of the criticism here falls into the realm of "if we would have done ________, then everything would be better."

that's easy to say, and impossible to prove.

sure, if the Gophers would have hired Coach X or Coach Y instead of Johnson, things would be different. Would they be better? Possibly. But again, there is NO way to prove that. so in that sense, it's a pointless argument.
there are no mulligans in real life.

the current reality is the current reality. all anyone can do is to watch (or not watch) and wait to see what happens.

or - find Coyle's secret bunker - bring him out of cryogenic suspension - re-install his spine - and see if he is willing or able to do something.

(actually, my new idea is that Coyle is existing as a disembodied head in a pan - like the classic B-movie "The Thing that wouldn't die." Or "Re-Animator," if that is more your speed.)
Click to expand...
Coyle needs to go on a media tour here to explain the plan, he's left Ben out to dry imo. If you hire someone this green while Craig Smith was available you have to be out there explaining and assisting Ben to the best of your ability given how poorly this has gone.
 

stocker08 said:
If you are asking someone who knows anything about college basketball.....they'd choose Ben Johnson. Hasn't been two years. Results are inconclusive. Pitino got eight years and had us trending backwards for three straight. Pretty obvious.
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We're about to have the worst season, maybe ever. I'd say Johnson has us trending backward worse than Pitino ever did.
 

stocker08 said:
You do realize that we've been missing Carrington for six of those games.....and Garcia (who's our best player) for five. Had a thin bench prior to them getting injured.
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You'd have a point if we weren't already shitty when they were playing.
 

goldengophers said:
Coyle needs to go on a media tour here to explain the plan, he's left Ben out to dry imo. If you hire someone this green while Craig Smith was available you have to be out there explaining and assisting Ben to the best of your ability given how poorly this has gone.
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Another mindless post. This does not draw conclusions from the facts. It draws the worn out conclusion that is a plague in the world of sports, blame the coach.

Examine the facts and assemble the conclusions.

-Injuries. The mindless post makes no reference to that. Not a word about Garcia. Not a word about the two injuries even before the season started. Not a word about Carrington out on injuries. The above post is a cliche post.

-Inexperienced freshman. We all can see we rely on young players like Payne, JOJ, Henley and Carrington before he was hurt. No mention of that.

-A plan of building talent is unfolding that will take time. No mention of that.

-No mention that the best players Minnesota can pull out of the transfer portal are just not that great.

-No mention that Johnson was able to buck that trend with Garcia who is really good -- but he's been out multiple games with an injury.

-No mention that Rutgers was horrible the first few years under Pikiell. They were bad but had nothing to do with the coach. And yet here Gophers are bad and is solely the blame of the coach.


The mindless "Johnson" people are not believable -- at least not with their dumb as a rock arguments.

Give us details why you say that and stop asking us to believe other facts we can all clearly see.

Yes, we can see Payne and JOJ out there. They are freshmen. They are good for freshmen and going to be dynamite, the future of Gophers basketball. Yes, they really do exist. This is not a veteran team. They will be better next year.

Johnson may be part of the problem. Lame arguments not drawing on actual facts are not enough to convince us Johnson is the problem.
 

Bfan said:
Another mindless post. This does not draw conclusions from the facts. It draws the worn out conclusion that is a plague in the world of sports, blame the coach.

Examine the facts and assemble the conclusions.

-Injuries. The mindless post makes no reference to that. Not a word about Garcia. Not a word about the two injuries even before the season started.

-Inexperienced freshman. We all can see we rely on young players like Payne, JOJ, Henley and Carrington before he was hurt. No mention of that.

-A plan of building talent is unfolding that will take time. No mention of that.

-No mention that the best players Minnesota can pull out of the transfer portal are just not that great.

-No mention that Johnson was able to buck that trend with Garcia who is really good -- but he's been out multiple games with an injury.

-No mention that Rutgers was horrible the first few years under Pikiell. They were bad but had nothing to do with the coach. And yet here Gophers are bad and is solely the blame of the coach.


The mindless "Johnson" people are not believable -- at least not with their dumb as a rock arguments.

Give us details why you say that and stop asking us to believe other facts we can all clearly see.

Yes, we can see Payne and JOJ out there. They are freshmen. They are good for freshmen and going to be dynamite, the future of Gophers basketball. Yes, they really do exist. This is not a veteran team. They will be better next year.

Johnson may be part of the problem. Lame arguments not drawing on actual facts are not enough to convince us Johnson is the problem.
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🥱
 

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