Ben Johnson is a Disaster

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Bayfieldgopher said:
Yes. Back when the peach basket was still a part of the game.

Most understand that playing solid D is just as much mental as physical. Sure its easier if the team has a bunch of quick twitch players. But so much of it is desire and doing the little things. Like playing to the strong hand and force the weak hand on the dribble, defending the baseline and forcing to the middle, maintaining the proper ball/man alignment, boxing out and with today's use of film study, get a firm understanding of the other guys strengths, weakness and tendencies.

Everyone likes to score. And coaches must spend the majority of practice time on teaching D fundamentals. Somehow I wish there was a stat that measured D efficiency. I was one who highly valued Gabe's effort and D savvy. I don't see that with anyone on the current roster other than Samuel's who is no Gabe.
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Interesting. You have the guy that taught Gabe to play D, teaching your current team.

I had speculated that he what your talking about here is why Samuels is here. I think maybe Ramberg might also might fit the mold.

I think you do both. I think the lateral quickness and foot speed issues are a problem of frequency as oppossed to volume. Got to do great ones a lot of days Vs huge chunks. The rest takes that volume of time.
 





Bad Gopher said:
I'm afraid that, if we're still playing on Wednesday in year 4, it'll be like Riley turning off the engines in "The Naked Time." The program would be as cold and dead as a dead body. Instead of calling ourselves the new Northwestern, future hapless teams would be calling themselves the new Minnesota.
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If you start singing "I'll take you home again, Kathleen" I will hunt you down and phaser your ass. that episode always drove me nuts.
 

LesBolstad said:
Yep 100%. He's significantly better than Lil' Ricky, although it has not translated to wins to date.
Recruiting and roster mgmt. will decide BJ's fate here
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This isn’t close to accurate and I thought Pitino should have been fired 2 years earlier.
 




forever a gopher said:
Pikiell was a head coach for 12 years prior to Rutgers. His record at Stony brook was 192-156 (109-71), including 4 conference championships and finishing 2nd twice more. So in his 11 seasons there, he finished in the top 2 in the conference 6 times, including finishing 1 or 2 in each of his last 5 seasons there.

There was evidence that Pikiell could coach at a high level. There is no evidence to lean on to say CBJ can turn this around. It's all just a hope and a prayer. If Craig Smith, Niko, etc. were here and had a similar record, while I'd be concerned, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and wouldn't be pushing the panic button yet.
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2004 Before Pikiell took over at Stony Brook, they finished 10-20 with a KenPom O rating of 95.4 (287th) and D of 110.1 (289th). In 2005 they went 12-17 O rating 95.8 (268th) D rating 104.9 (215th)
His first 4 years went like this:
Record, KenPom O and D rating and rank:
2006: 4-24 96.2 (311th) 109.1 (275th)
2007: 9-20 92.9 (312th) 104.8 (166th)
2008: 7-23 92.5 (319th) 107.1 (235th)
2009: 16-14 98.2 (245th). 100.6 (124th)
Then went 22-10, 15-17 then started winning >20 games per year there. This is when their rating on D really took a jump.
His first four years as a head coach weren’t good. (Had one year as an interim 5-18 at a small New England college). stony Brook stuck with him and it paid off for them and him in getting the Rutgers job.
I get that he did this at a lower level first and Ben is starting out at the highest level. But, can we let the man do his job for a few years before we call him a disaster. This season has been all kinds of things and recently it’s not been good. I’m still going to watch and support the team(players AND coaches). Find the small things were they improve and see if those things can carry over to the next games, into the summer and the following year. Let’s see what happens tonight vs Maryland.
 

GFBfan said:
2004 Before Pikiell took over at Stony Brook, they finished 10-20 with a KenPom O rating of 95.4 (287th) and D of 110.1 (289th). In 2005 they went 12-17 O rating 95.8 (268th) D rating 104.9 (215th)
His first 4 years went like this:
Record, KenPom O and D rating and rank:
2006: 4-24 96.2 (311th) 109.1 (275th)
2007: 9-20 92.9 (312th) 104.8 (166th)
2008: 7-23 92.5 (319th) 107.1 (235th)
2009: 16-14 98.2 (245th). 100.6 (124th)
Then went 22-10, 15-17 then started winning >20 games per year there. This is when their rating on D really took a jump.
His first four years as a head coach weren’t good. (Had one year as an interim 5-18 at a small New England college). stony Brook stuck with him and it paid off for them and him in getting the Rutgers job.
I get that he did this at a lower level first and Ben is starting out at the highest level. But, can we let the man do his job for a few years before we call him a disaster. This season has been all kinds of things and recently it’s not been good. I’m still going to watch and support the team(players AND coaches). Find the small things were they improve and see if those things can carry over to the next games, into the summer and the following year. Let’s see what happens tonight vs Maryland.
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That's how rough of a go the rookie Stony Brook coach had in a lower level conference. How long will it take our rookie coach?

Regarding tonight- it is high time we put on a good showing at home. The team has tossed up some real bad efforts this year at home in the Big Ten. Even a bad team should make better teams sweat it out on the road.
 

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I will be at the game tonight. Hopefully Garcia plays, the best Gophers player.


www.startribune.com

Gophers' leading scorer Dawson Garcia to be a game-time decision vs. Maryland

Garcia has missed the past three games with a bone bruise, and the Gophers' losing streak stands at six.
www.startribune.com www.startribune.com


www.startribune.com

Gophers recruit Cam Christie excites Ben Johnson with his talent and potential

The 6-6 guard from Illinois played in front of his future coach last weekend. Christie can't wait to get to campus to help the struggling Gophers hoops program.
www.startribune.com www.startribune.com


This afternoon I will also see the red hot #3 women's hockey team play #1 Ohio State. Minnesota beat Ohio State last night. Today will be for a sweep.

It's exciting to see the men's hockey team and the women's hockey team on the cusp of both being #1.


 

GFBfan said:
2004 Before Pikiell took over at Stony Brook, they finished 10-20 with a KenPom O rating of 95.4 (287th) and D of 110.1 (289th). In 2005 they went 12-17 O rating 95.8 (268th) D rating 104.9 (215th)
His first 4 years went like this:
Record, KenPom O and D rating and rank:
2006: 4-24 96.2 (311th) 109.1 (275th)
2007: 9-20 92.9 (312th) 104.8 (166th)
2008: 7-23 92.5 (319th) 107.1 (235th)
2009: 16-14 98.2 (245th). 100.6 (124th)
Then went 22-10, 15-17 then started winning >20 games per year there. This is when their rating on D really took a jump.
His first four years as a head coach weren’t good. (Had one year as an interim 5-18 at a small New England college). stony Brook stuck with him and it paid off for them and him in getting the Rutgers job.
I get that he did this at a lower level first and Ben is starting out at the highest level. But, can we let the man do his job for a few years before we call him a disaster. This season has been all kinds of things and recently it’s not been good. I’m still going to watch and support the team(players AND coaches). Find the small things were they improve and see if those things can carry over to the next games, into the summer and the following year. Let’s see what happens tonight vs Maryland.
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You cannot compare the two.
Are you actually trying to compare the two (America East vs Big Ten) conferences, and say it’s the same thing? They couldn’t be further from the same thing.

Additionally, the college basketball landscape has dramatically changed since Pikiell took over Stony Brook with the portal and the 1 free transfer rule. Teams are not stuck in waste lands for a few years, there are countless examples of fast rebuilds of gutted teams with first and second year coaches (Kansas State, Missouri, LSU, Mississippi State, Iowa State…etc). In today’s world if you can’t do this in two years, you’ve failed to adapt to modern college basketball and are living in a bygone era…and in the business world, the companies stuck in the past usually don’t do well.

I feel like we are Nokia or Blackberry and all these other teams with real coaches who utilize the portal (based on advanced scouting and roster construction) are the Apple and Google’s of the world
 



bga1 said:
That's how rough of a go the rookie Stony Brook coach had in a lower level conference. How long will it take our rookie coach?

Regarding tonight- it is high time we put on a good showing at home. The team has tossed up some real bad efforts this year at home in the Big Ten. Even a bad team should make better teams sweat it out on the road.
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Good question. Nobody knows, but hopefully we will see sign of improvement next year on the court along with continued good recruiting and if not then it’s time to start looking elsewhere. Until then I’m supporting Coach Johnson and staff even when it’s hard to watch like the last couple games.

As for tonight, I agree with you.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
You cannot compare the two.
Are you actually trying to compare the two (America East vs Big Ten) conferences, and say it’s the same thing? They couldn’t be further from the same thing.

Additionally, the college basketball landscape has dramatically changed since Pikiell took over Stony Brook with the portal and the 1 free transfer rule. Teams are not stuck in waste lands for a few years, there are countless examples of fast rebuilds of gutted teams with first and second year coaches (Kansas State, Missouri, LSU, Mississippi State, Iowa State…etc). In today’s world if you can’t do this in two years, you’ve failed to adapt to modern college basketball and are living in a bygone era…and in the business world, the companies stuck in the past usually don’t do well.

I feel like we are Nokia or Blackberry and all these other teams with real coaches who utilize the portal (based on advanced scouting and roster construction) are the Apple and Google’s of the world
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I posted that because people on here are saying Pickell had a track record prior to his Rutgers start. He didn’t start out so well there (atStony Brook)but did build it up and establish his system. It took time for that to happen. Don’t know why we can’t give our coach the same amount of time.
 

golfing18now said:
I thought about this when watching the game on Wednesday. When the Gophers went to the zone in the first half, it took about two or three empty possessions for Rutgers to figure out how to attack it. After a couple minutes, it was a parade of open shots from the elbow, baseline, and around the three point line. Ball movement. Wide open shots. Speaking of talent -- they lost their two best players from last year's team (Baker and Harper) and are about to go to their 4th consecutive NCAA tournament. That's what good coaching looks like. Rutgers is lucky to have him.
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Just a couple things about this. When you have so few competent players and can't afford foul trouble, man to man defense isn't a great option, especially when you don't defend particularly well and the other team is far quicker than you are. Had the Gophers played a man defense, the results would not have been any better. And "good coaching" is far more likely to happen with good players who have experience.
You can fault Johnson for recruiting the players he has on the floor, although he didn't have much of a chance to recruit his first year, but faulting him for the decision to go to a zone? I think most coaches with that situation would have played zone. Until he has more talent on the floor and until his younger players make a lot of improvement, Johnson will look like a poor coach.
 

Formerswish said:
Well, it's certainly reasonable to suggest people weren't calling for his head. But after two 3-15 seasons in the Big Ten, nobody was calling for his head? I don't know if you were at Rutgers during those years and were aware of that, but if you were, you know more than I about it. And "once or twice every few years" to the tournament sound like more than 5 times in 13 years, but that can be debated.
This wasn't meant to be an argument about whether Rutgers basketball fans were unhappy during that time, or how many times the teams have gone to the tournament: It's about whether it's possible that something similar to the process that happened at Rutgers with Pikiell might have a chance of happening here. I think it's possible, other don't. If Johnson can recruit good players, I believe it can happen. And it needs to happen, or he'll be gone.
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Correct. Certain posters are jumping to conclusions and making excuses when it's pointed out that two years doesn't define a coach. Certainly not the first two years at a school.

LesBolstad said:
Yep 100%. He's significantly better than Lil' Ricky, although it has not translated to wins to date.
Recruiting and roster mgmt. will decide BJ's fate here
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Yup. He's bringing in higher end talent. But he's got to balance the roster....and quick. Next year (assuming we don't get killed by guys transferring out or injuries once again) we'll have a ton of depth in the front court. But Johnson absolutely NEEDS to find another transfer guard who is a true point. Could be a huge hinge point for how the team performs.

MUgopher32 said:
Its a completely different landscape now though. So past examples dont work as well.

With the portal now you never know what a roster is going to look like year to year and coaches also have opportunities and thus lack of excuses to not fill their rosters as well.

Rutgers at that time had to truly build from the bottom. Now days coaches can take 2-22 teams and get them to the tournament the next year.
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Ben Johnson has had to build from the bottom too. Inherited an empty roster.
 

GFBfan said:
2004 Before Pikiell took over at Stony Brook, they finished 10-20 with a KenPom O rating of 95.4 (287th) and D of 110.1 (289th). In 2005 they went 12-17 O rating 95.8 (268th) D rating 104.9 (215th)
His first 4 years went like this:
Record, KenPom O and D rating and rank:
2006: 4-24 96.2 (311th) 109.1 (275th)
2007: 9-20 92.9 (312th) 104.8 (166th)
2008: 7-23 92.5 (319th) 107.1 (235th)
2009: 16-14 98.2 (245th). 100.6 (124th)
Then went 22-10, 15-17 then started winning >20 games per year there. This is when their rating on D really took a jump.
His first four years as a head coach weren’t good. (Had one year as an interim 5-18 at a small New England college). stony Brook stuck with him and it paid off for them and him in getting the Rutgers job.
I get that he did this at a lower level first and Ben is starting out at the highest level. But, can we let the man do his job for a few years before we call him a disaster. This season has been all kinds of things and recently it’s not been good. I’m still going to watch and support the team(players AND coaches). Find the small things were they improve and see if those things can carry over to the next games, into the summer and the following year. Let’s see what happens tonight vs Maryland.
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GFBfan said:
Good question. Nobody knows, but hopefully we will see sign of improvement next year on the court along with continued good recruiting and if not then it’s time to start looking elsewhere. Until then I’m supporting Coach Johnson and staff even when it’s hard to watch like the last couple games.

As for tonight, I agree with you.
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GFBfan said:
I posted that because people on here are saying Pickell had a track record prior to his Rutgers start. He didn’t start out so well there (atStony Brook)but did build it up and establish his system. It took time for that to happen. Don’t know why we can’t give our coach the same amount of time.
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Unfortunately....for some....coaches shouldn't get a reasonable amount of time to turn a program around. Pikiell needed several years to get his footing at Stony Brook. Same thing at Rutgers. These posters would have been calling for Pikiell's head same as they are Johnson's. Because they have no patience or foresight. Immediate results or bust.
 

stocker08 said:
Unfortunately....for some....coaches shouldn't get a reasonable amount of time to turn a program around. Pikiell needed several years to get his footing at Stony Brook. Same thing at Rutgers. These posters would have been calling for Pikiell's head same as they are Johnson's. Because they have no patience or foresight. Immediate results or bust.
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Several people have completely made up their mind on BJ, but I don’t think I’ve seen anyone clamoring for his immediate removal. I believe almost everyone says he gets 3 years* no question. I think there’s a lot of opinions about what to do after next year, pending success or lack of. IMO, I want to see more next year, but I’m not ready to forecast entirely. All I know is I’m losing faith by the game, and I don’t owe any coach, player, or school any fealty.

*including last year.
 

GFBfan said:
I posted that because people on here are saying Pickell had a track record prior to his Rutgers start. He didn’t start out so well there (atStony Brook)but did build it up and establish his system. It took time for that to happen. Don’t know why we can’t give our coach the same amount of time.
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Because doing it in the American East is different than allowing a coach to learn in the Big10…pretty simple
 

Everyone agrees that Ben should be the coach thru 2027 regardless of wins.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
If you start singing "I'll take you home again, Kathleen" I will hunt you down and phaser your ass. that episode always drove me nuts.
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You don't know I haven't been signing it. I think it's scientifically impossible to think of that episode and not have that song in your head the rest of the day.

"Hunt You Down and Phaser Your Ass" would be a great album title.
 

I think the poster who found Pikiell's Stony Brook progression made a compelling point. Maybe Johnson will learn how to coach on the job like him. I think it's less likely doing it at the B1G level than in the *checks notes* Colonial Athletic Association, but there is at least a precedent. He probably should have started at a lower level, though.
 

stocker08 said:
Unfortunately....for some....coaches shouldn't get a reasonable amount of time to turn a program around. Pikiell needed several years to get his footing at Stony Brook. Same thing at Rutgers. These posters would have been calling for Pikiell's head same as they are Johnson's. Because they have no patience or foresight. Immediate results or bust.
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It doesn't have to be either/or. I don't think anyone on this board is expecting "immediate results" in the sense that we are expecting this year to look like what the finished product would hopefully be for a coach 4 or 5 years in. What I (and many others) are saying is that it also isn't appropriate to have no standards whatsoever for team performance in year 2 and to expect fans to be totally blind to the on court product. I was reasonably satisfied with how the team looked last year for the first year with the personnel changes, even though that kind of B1G record would be a fireable offense (in my opinion) several years in (certainly if it happened with any regularity). This year is different. We look horrendous in almost every way. We not only look to be on pace for a second consecutive last place finish (last year we were tied in last place), but barring significant improvement down the stretch, we are pretty bad even as measured against past last place B1G teams. So this is beyond "somebody has to finish last" territory, and into the "no B1G team should be this bad" zone.
 


In the other thread I compare the contract situation to Collins and Pikiel at Northwestern and Rutgers. Johnson hasn't been around long enough to compare his coaching record to Collins and Pikiel. I do think the university is not going to pay both the Johnson contract and a new contract for a new coach.

We are along for a Collins at Northwestern and Pikiel at Rutgers experiment.

Yea, I know, Pikiel should have been fired after year 2 at Rutgers. ;)
 


Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Because doing it in the American East is different than allowing a coach to learn in the Big10…pretty simple
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Is that Coach Johnsons fault? No. He got hired by Mark Coyle. Have you started a AD Coyle is a disaster thread yet?
He's our coach. He's learning on the job in a major conference. Give him time.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
The excuses are getting so bad that posters are now trying to compare this program to Stony Brook. A new low.
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Not comparing the programs, I compared the coaches from when they started their HC career and at no point in my comparison did I make an excuse for Coach Johnson. Who's the one who started this thread a month into his second season. That is a new low.
 

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