Ben Johnson is a Disaster

Donate To GopherHole
CPTMidnight said:
Still missing the point.

You have no control, Coyle does not care what you say on this website, the U board sits smugly -satisfied with their decision to hire an underqualified candidate and hope for the best, all your pain over Wisconsin and lack NCAA success is only heard by the people who upvote you here, Ben is still coach and will be for a long time, CPTMidnight could not generate another win no matter how many tears he shed on this website.

You have to admit this thread is getting kinda pathetic (and funny).
Click to expand...
I don’t disagree with your premise, so essentially it’s pointless to be a fan of an organization that doesn’t care.

People are agreeing with you and that is why attendance is falling, media attention is diminishing, because they view it as pointless to care when the organization doesn’t care itself. The people on here complaining are some of the few who are actually invested in this program, telling them to not care will be a hole that will take 10x the effort to recover from. It’s not easy to get people to be passionately invested in your product. If you’re passionate about the program each loss is a kick to the gut, if you don’t care it’s just a glance at the score ticker and a shrug of the shoulders.

For the program it would be best to have those people even if it gets “pathetic”, because the alternative is having less people that even care about your program. The U really needs to get it straightened out because there now is another D1 program in the market, and if the program that shall not be named actually cares and shows progress it will have a long lasting impact on the Gophers for being the choice for D1 basketball $s, people won’t have to just be held hostage by incompetent administrators.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Look, the record is bad. the performance is inconsistent. a lot of bad losses.

none of that is disputable.

what I disagree with is the notion that if you just take Ben Johnson out of the picture and substitute Coach X, that the situation would suddenly be radically different.

could things be better with a different coach? certainly.

But - I find it hard to believe that the Portal would suddenly open up and produce all of these good players who would immediately transform the program.

We're still talking about MN. Portal players can choose to go anywhere they want. What do they want? playing time - an opportunity to win - an opportunity to make the NCAA tournament and get more exposure - and in some cases (not all) an opportunity to get NIL $$.

what can MN offer them - playing time to start. everything else is a can overcome maybe, or in the case of NIL, a no.

again - things could be better. I just don't think that changing coaches would solve every problem at MN. no matter who the coach is, some of the other problems would remain.
Click to expand...
Other programs have shown a good coach can overcome those things, there were worse programs than Minnesota who have turned it around with a new coach.
 


what I'm trying to say is that the coach is only part of the equation. an important part, certainly. But only a part.

there are other issues with the Gopher Men's basketball program that go beyond any one coach.

let me beat a dead horse for a minute:
since the Final Four team in 1997 -
26 seasons
3 seasons with a winning record in B1G games
7 NCAA appearances
2-7 record in NCAA tournament games
18-22 in B1G tournament games - best finish runner-up in 2010

so it's not like Ben Johnson inherited a college hoops powerhouse and destroyed it in 1-1/2 seasons.
it would be great if Ben Johnson was the only problem. that would be a lot easier to fix. but it's not that simple.
 

Gopher Teeth said:
Other programs have shown a good coach can overcome those things, there were worse programs than Minnesota who have turned it around with a new coach.
Click to expand...
What were these “worse” programs? Look at Norwegian’s post about historical record at Minnesota since the scandal broke. Then remember that Ben inherited 2 players from Pitino in Curry and Ihnen. (2 players who have 4 ACL surgeries evenly split between them.)

St. Thomas may have been in a better position!

Looking at the facts, Ben did pretty well last year considering.

His freshmen aren’t ready and his transfers aren’t meshing as well as last year.

Want improvement? Consider the fact that he may only need 1 or 2 transfers after this season!
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
It wouldn't be suicide. Many coaches who are well liked are failures at their jobs. A good coach with a good system solves a lot of problems, and Ben isn't that.

This team has regressed in every way in year 2. There are zero signs of progress. Ben has only needed 2 years to put this program into a coma. They need to find a new doctor soon, or this program will be completely dead.
Click to expand...
I won't argue with you about how bad it is. It's awful. He has a couple of good recruiting classes. If he gets a good to very good PG and is able to get a nice jump in skill from his current guys next year could be different. The U put him in this situation and there is just no way that they are going to admit an error at this stage.

I like the young talent better than you do, so I get where you are coming from. Your position is reasonable. I think Ben still has a chance to get this done.

There is no doubt these past two years have further damaged the program and making a change now would be yet another blow. Right now it would take a miracle worker to come in fresh and have this thing humming in 2 years. As green as Ben is, I think he has the best shot right now.
 

He's not going to get fired. Nor should he.

But so far all we know is he has been able to set a new floor for this program. Even Pitino did more in his year three with less than this roster. We should expect to see some improvement in the players next year, but will HE improve? It's a wish and a prayer at this point as there is nothing in his resume to come to that conclusion. Is it possible? I suppose.
 


golfing18now said:
He's not going to get fired. Nor should he.

But so far all we know is he has been able to set a new floor for this program. Even Pitino did more in his year three with less than this roster. We should expect to see some improvement in the players next year, but will HE improve? It's a wish and a prayer at this point as there is nothing in him resume to come to that conclusion. Is it possible? I suppose.
Click to expand...
Fair point as long as Ben doesn’t win another conference game this year. I don’t know if I’d say this roster is better with the injuries. If healthy I’d say this years roster is better.
 




Gopherfan84 said:
Fair point as long as Ben doesn’t win another conference game this year. I don’t know if I’d say this roster is better with the injuries. If healthy I’d say this years roster is better.
Click to expand...

The injuries certainly play a part in the results. No question. But Pitino's team had nowhere near the experience of Battle/Garcia/Cooper/Samuels. Joey King primarily. The record was/is very similar, although Pitino's team played much better as the season went along. Can we say that about this team? meh
 

formerlybis said:
I happen to think that a coach that can coach is more than half the battle (no pun intended), maybe closer to 2/3rds of it. Many, many people disagree with that; they think that the main battle - maybe the only battle that matters - is to get better players. It matters, for sure, but a coach at Minnesota has to get the most out of what will almost always be equal to inferior talent to the league. Indiana/Illinois/Michigan/MSU/OSU/PU, maybe even Maryland will have at least as good talent every year. You gotta be able to coach. Maybe Ben will learn. The metrics (and I don't mean Ws and Ls) are unkind. I certainly think there are coaches out there that could do better metrics-wise with this roster.
Click to expand...
IMO college basketball coaches have more to do with the outcome of their teams outcome than any coach on any level in any sport. First off, they are the GM and the coach. A HS coach doesn't pick his players, same as most NBA coaches. Even NBA coaches don't get full autonomy on their roster due to salary cap etc. And unlike a football team that has 90ish guys, a basketball team has 13 and plays 5. A coach can play all defense (Bennett) or all offense (McCaffrey) but they can recruit to whatever they want.

I know this will NEVER happen, but for example if we fired Ben today and hired Chris Beard, you don't think we would suddenly be a popular team on the up swing and we'd be plenty popular with recruits. This is part is why I'm so frustrated with the AD and coach in this case. One coach in college basketball 100% can make any team good and a big deal. Some might not like how that happens, but sometimes watching the sausage being made isn't as appealing as eating it.
 

golfing18now said:
The injuries certainly play a part in the results. No question. But Pitino's team had nowhere near the experience of Battle/Garcia/Cooper/Samuels. Joey King primarily. The record was/is very similar, although Pitino's team played much better as the season went along. Can we say that about this team? meh
Click to expand...
We remember that team differently. The injuries played a major part imo. That team had Nate Mason and Konate (remember we didn’t think he was terrible as a freshman) as a soph and King. Top 100 recruits in Dorsey and Murphy. Older players in Morris as well. I don’t remember them playing way better towards the end and had a scandal. Agree when this years are all are here it’s a better roster, they just haven’t been together so I don’t use that as much of a judgement personally as a reasonable comp.
 



FWIW - Ryan James on Gopher Illustrated has an interesting article.

He goes through the entire roster and writes a paragraph or two about each player. I think it's a pretty fair assessment. the section on Cooper is kind of funny, because James talks about how Cooper does some things really well, and other things very poorly.

worth checking out.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
FWIW - Ryan James on Gopher Illustrated has an interesting article.

He goes through the entire roster and writes a paragraph or two about each player. I think it's a pretty fair assessment. the section on Cooper is kind of funny, because James talks about how Cooper does some things really well, and other things very poorly.

worth checking out.
Click to expand...
is it a free article or paywall for GI subscribers?
 




Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Just let this sink in, we are 11 spots behind Georgetown (currently #211 KenPom) as we are #222.

Georgetown Snaps 29 game big east losing streak

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/46/georgetown-hoyas

Look at the wins: Sienna, Coppin State, Green Bay, LaSalle, UMBC, DePaul (only big east win)

Yet we are worse than this laughing stock
Click to expand...
Speaking of, how does Ewing still have a job? I get he’s a king around there, but yowza that’s been a disaster.
 

Lol, ask how ben has a gig first maybe? His team is better than ours, albeit in his 3rd season but still.....
 

forever a gopher said:
Speaking of, how does Ewing still have a job? I get he’s a king around there, but yowza that’s been a disaster.
Click to expand...

A great example of keeping a coach around because he was 'recruiting well'. The fluke Big East tourney run and making the NCAA tournament in year 4 likely saved him then. But now he's had 1 Big East win since.

For as bad as Ewing has been, he was still far better in his first two years than Ben has been here.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
A great example of keeping a coach around because he was 'recruiting well'. The fluke Big East tourney run and making the NCAA tournament in year 4 likely saved him then. But now he's had 1 Big East win since.

For as bad as Ewing has been, he was still far better in his first two years than Ben has been here.
Click to expand...
Plus, the guy is far and away the greatest player in the history of that program (and I’ll argue, one of the greatest in the history of college basketball). He put Georgetown basketball on the map. His leash has been extraordinarily long for that reason alone.
 

WindyCityGopher said:
Plus, the guy is far and away the greatest player in the history of that program (and I’ll argue, one of the greatest in the history of college basketball). He put Georgetown basketball on the map. His leash has been extraordinarily long for that reason alone.
Click to expand...

That's all true, and where has all of that patience and long leash gotten Georgetown in year 6 under Ewing?

1-34 over their last 35 Big East games.
 
Last edited:

GopherWeatherGuy said:
That's all true, and where has all of that patience and long leash gotten Georgetown in year 6 under Ewing?

1-34 over their last 35 Big East games in year 6.
Click to expand...
No doubt, he’s been a complete disaster, but I believe his legendary status is the only thread that’s kept him employed this long.
 

kix4kix said:
Lol, ask how ben has a gig first maybe? His team is better than ours, albeit in his 3rd season but still.....
Click to expand...
Oh, but you have to remember that Georgetown is a traditional national power, and the Gophers are traditionally shitty, with no history of any success whatsoever. In fact, Ben has elevated the program to the point of recruiting a 4-star rated prospect that one service has rated with five stars. Everyone knows that's the best the Gophers can possibly hope to attain. Build the statue now!
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
That's all true, and where has all of that patience and long leash gotten Georgetown in year 6 under Ewing?

1-34 over their last 35 Big East games.
Click to expand...
They must not have a ton of fans like EasyTherePilgram (MnJay) who understand that this is part of Ewing’s rebuild plan.
 
Last edited:

Bad Gopher said:
Oh, but you have to remember that Georgetown is a traditional national power, and the Gophers are traditionally shitty, with no history of any success whatsoever. In fact, Ben has elevated the program to the point of recruiting a 4-star rated prospect that one service has rated with five stars. Everyone knows that's the best the Gophers can possibly hope to attain. Build the statue now!
Click to expand...
Paging Humphries and Rickert…granted Evans is an out of state 4/5 star (depending of service).
 

There are other comments and discussions about this. This also is relevant to the standard to hold Johnson to.

Pitino got sacked after two seasons of not making an NCAA tournament/with losing seasons (or not deep NIT success). He was allowed to go two seasons in a row without that kind of success during his first four years.

He made two NCAA tournaments and won the NIT.

So that looks like a standard to me.

CBJ needs his 4 years to build his team and at the same time we can see Minnesota has success standards or sacked.

1676699648629.png
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Paging Humphries and Rickert…granted Evans is an out of state 4/5 star (depending of service).
Click to expand...
Humphries and Rickert were both interesting recruitments. Both committed elsewhere, both were basically told to find another place despite their skills. Both would actually be better in the modern game and be stretch 5s.

I played against Rickert, he was their PG his senior year lol.
 


You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom