Ben Johnson is a Disaster

[UpAndUnder43]

I believe Coach Johnson received a 5 year deal in March of 2021. So that lasts until 2026, I believe. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. His compensation is last in the Big Ten.

Here are sobering facts.

The contract is in effect. I hear people saying they were looking for head coach experience. I understand. It's signed.

He gets his reasonable time to show what he can do. It's a contact. There could be a complaint that he didn't get his implied four years to show what he can do.

So the reality is that he gets his chance to show what he can build here. And I do like some of the building blocks next year and this.

He's only in year 2. It's not like he's been here for years and years without any tournament success.

Like I said, the contract is signed and nothing that can be done about that.

The fact he played for Minnesota, was a star high school player in Minnesota, had a record of being an assistant various college places, and then was an assistant at Minnesota gave him plenty of points to be considered for a coaching promotion. He did have lots of college coaching experience -- just not head coach.

Anyway, for the unhappy folks, the grim reality is that hand shake contract to give him a few years to try and build something.

If year 4 comes and nothing, then fire away.

I am pulling for shooters Carrington and Henley. Christie too!

I posted a very detailed breakdown of Ben Johnson’s career as a college player and assistant. He has very little winning experience. Being on the bench for perennial losers isn’t a great thing. Even Xavier kinda sucked while he was there after being great before and now much better after he left. Is it all on him? Of course not. But not all experience is the same

 

[howeda7]

I posted a very detailed breakdown of Ben Johnson’s career as a college player and assistant. He has very little winning experience. Being on the bench for perennial losers isn’t a great thing. Even Xavier kinda sucked while he was there after being great before and now much better after he left. Is it all on him? Of course not. But not all experience is the same

According to the Star Tribune this week, all that experience losing is helping him deal with all this losing. Or something.

 

[MennoSota]

I posted a very detailed breakdown of Ben Johnson’s career as a college player and assistant. He has very little winning experience. Being on the bench for perennial losers isn’t a great thing. Even Xavier kinda sucked while he was there after being great before and now much better after he left. Is it all on him? Of course not. But not all experience is the same

So, by your theory, this coach should have amounted to nothing...

Bob Knight College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Bob Knight - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

 

[UpAndUnder43]

So, by your theory, this coach should have amounted to nothing...

Bob Knight College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Bob Knight - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

1st off, you linked his player page.

2nd, please break down his playing and coaching career prior to Indiana to see how that winning percentage compares to Ben Johnson. Nothing to do with Ben’s playing ability. His teams sucked. He has lost a lot.

Thanks.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

So, by your theory, this coach should have amounted to nothing...

Bob Knight College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Bob Knight - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

Alright. I’ll do the work for you.

He won a national championship as a player. Ben Johnson was on one of the worst big ten teams in the last 50 years. Similar. He also lost two national championships. So he played in 3 national titles games. I doubt Ben did but I can double check.

Bobby Knight was an assistant at Army for 2 years. They went 40-15.

He had 1 losing season as a head coach in 6 seasons there…

Then at Indiana he won 73.5% of games…but only 70% in conference.

Good comparison. Thanks!

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

So, by your theory, this coach should have amounted to nothing...

Bob Knight College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Bob Knight - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

Ummmm Bobby Knight is somehow comparable to Ben Johnson because he played in the national title game all 3 years as a player, and they won it his first year?

 

[GoodasGold]

Ummmm Bobby Knight is somehow comparable to Ben Johnson because he played in the national title game all 3 years as a player, and they won it his first year?

I don’t know about that, but temperamentally they’re quite similar.

 

[howeda7]

I don’t know about that, but temperamentally they’re quite similar.

It's a good thing Ben brought the benches back, otherwise he'd be throwing stools across the court in rage with that temper of his.

 

[GoodasGold]

It's a good thing Ben brought the benches back, otherwise he'd be throwing stools across the court in rage with that temper of his.

I waiting for him to put the sleeper hold on one of his players.

 

[Gopherfan84]

I posted a very detailed breakdown of Ben Johnson’s career as a college player and assistant. He has very little winning experience. Being on the bench for perennial losers isn’t a great thing. Even Xavier kinda sucked while he was there after being great before and now much better after he left. Is it all on him? Of course not. But not all experience is the same

Yeah I think it’s easier to learn from what to do vs what not to do. His assistants have won a good amount. The fact is each coach has to find their way to success. You emulate things you’ve learned, but there obviously isn’t one right way. I hope it works out for him. I think he’s tried to do it right by bringing in high character guys and ones who he deems fits. We will see if he can get it rolling, otherwise we will be looking for another coach obviously.

 

[Bfan]

from Gopher Sports.com - June 10th, 2022:

The University of Minnesota and head men's basketball coach Ben Johnson have agreed to a contract extension that will keep him at the helm through 2027. The one-year extension became official today after being approved at the Board of Regents meeting.

Initial deal was five years. but, as you can see, a 1-year extension was added last summer.

BTW - of the known coaches' salaries, Johnson is 13th in the B1G. but the salary of the Penn State coach is not publicly available due to some state law that limits the release of information on state employees. so you can speculate that Johnson is last in the B1G, but we don't actually know that beyond a reasonable doubt.

Argh. I was wondering what people meant in their numbers.

That makes no sense at all. You have to prove it after a few years first for that long of a deal.

I am enthusiastically willing to give CBJ a shot to recruit and build this team for 3-4 years and then a 1 year buyout or extension then. Minnesota is in a tough spot historically and I truly believe CBJ can recruit/attract talent to a good program.

A 6 year deal is too long, and an extension already made no sense.

You can mark this down as #7 and #8

7: I truly believe CBJ can recruit/attract talent to a good program. That is the winning move if it works.

8: that extension was not warranted yet

 

[forever a gopher]

Seriously. Over the course of Pitino's eight year tenure....offensive scheme was by far the biggest gripe from posters.

I would say the "scheme" was a slashing offense with an aim of wings/guards moving towards the basket and either having closer shots or drawing fouls. Sometimes they played uptempo, as he did usually have guys that were athletic enough to do that. Pitino's teams usually excelled at drawing fouls. Where this broke down is when the opposition played zone and the middle of the court was clogged, or they played an overly sound defensive team (think Wisky). They didn't have enough shooters to break down the zone, and usually got super frustrated when playing a sound defensive team, as they were a bit of a one-trick pony.

Not pining for Pitino in any way; I was very much on the fire Pitino train about 2 years before it happened. I would agree that Pitino's offenses (especially when playing good teams as described above), often seemed to just play hero ball and start chucking shots. With that said, through 1.5+ years, Pitino is looking like a master of strategy compared to CBJ as I literally have no idea what the point of this offense is, other than post your bigs up near the top of the key and let Battle chuck shots from outside.

 

[Bfan]

I like Payne, JOJ, Henley, Carrington, Christie, Evans, Garcia and who CBJ has coming next. Evans is the real deal. This is going to work.

 

[Bfan]

This university has not been a good recruiting school since forever. This is a tough program to build.

CBJ got Evans. Either people are high on that or they should be. Payne is a Big Ten m a n who is going to be great.

Either you believe CBJ can recruit to Minnesota better than the past, like I do, or you should start believing.

I don't think a 6 year deal makes sense at all, but I like that leaders are sober and know this is going to take 4 years.

Like at Rutgers.

Yes I am going back to this points.

Now roll that and smoke it. That's good sh*t.

It is only year 2. I am willing to go to 3 or 4.

 

[Gopherfan84]

I would say the "scheme" was a slashing offense with an aim of wings/guards moving towards the basket and either having closer shots or drawing fouls. Sometimes they played uptempo, as he did usually have guys that were athletic enough to do that. Pitino's teams usually excelled at drawing fouls. Where this broke down is when the opposition played zone and the middle of the court was clogged, or they played an overly sound defensive team (think Wisky). They didn't have enough shooters to break down the zone, and usually got super frustrated when playing a sound defensive team, as they were a bit of a one-trick pony.

One trick pony yes. They basically ran ball screens for their ball dominant guard and everyone would stand around. He did run some good high low stuff with Murphy and Oturo when Coffey ran point. Pitinos offenses were very vanilla and by design. He focused on creating a mismatch for one guy basically. Everyone complained about it constantly though. Pitino does know basketball and offense is his best coaching skill or where he puts his time. It works for 2-3 guys, but basically 2 of the 5 will always be worthless. Good defenses just take away the top 2 options.

Not pining for Pitino in any way; I was very much on the fire Pitino train about 2 years before it happened. I would agree that Pitino's offenses (especially when playing good teams as described above), often seemed to just play hero ball and start chucking shots. With that said, through 1.5+ years, Pitino is looking like a master of strategy compared to CBJ as I literally have no idea what the point of this offense is, other than post your bigs up near the top of the key and let Battle chuck shots from outside.

Schematically Ben runs a lot of similar actions (high ball screen). He is running a different wrinkle bringing the big up (which includes his man) and trying to have more movement and cuts. His offense is intended to be a lot more sharing of the basketball. It’s ugly right now because of lack of quality guard play. This offensive system will be more easy to recruit to imo and he’ll get more shooters who want to come here and play. Next year with some more guards (Christie, Transfer PG, Cooper, and Henley and Carrington) it should be better by quite a bit (can’t get much worse anyways). Last years team was better offensively cause they had guards who knew where and when to move so we’ve seen a small sample size.

 

[bga1]

Schematically Ben runs a lot of similar actions (high ball screen). He is running a different wrinkle bringing the big up (which includes his man) and trying to have more movement and cuts. His offense is intended to be a lot more sharing of the basketball. It’s ugly right now because of lack of quality guard play. This offensive system will be more easy to recruit to imo and he’ll get more shooters who want to come here and play. Next year with some more guards (Christie, Transfer PG, Cooper, and Henley and Carrington) it should be better by quite a bit (can’t get much worse anyways). Last years team was better offensively cause they had guards who knew where and when to move so we’ve seen a small sample size.

Not real effective with Payne as his man often doesn't follow him out there...leaving Payne standing out there alone and the lane still clogged.

 

[Bad Gopher]

It's a good thing Ben brought the benches back, otherwise he'd be throwing stools across the court in rage with that temper of his.

I do dig those benches.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Not real effective with Payne as his man often doesn't follow him out there...leaving Payne standing out there alone and the lane still clogged.

Agree it’s not effective until whomever is there shoots it at least once a game probably. Still like the action and off ball movement it creates.

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

This university has not been a good recruiting school since forever. This is a tough program to build.

CBJ got Evans. Either people are high on that or they should be. Payne is a Big Ten m a n who is going to be great.

Either you believe CBJ can recruit to Minnesota better than the past, like I do, or you should start believing.

I don't think a 6 year deal makes sense at all, but I like that leaders are sober and know this is going to take 4 years.

Like at Rutgers.

Yes I am going back to this points.

Now roll that and smoke it. That's good sh*t.

It is only year 2. I am willing to go to 3 or 4.

Agree it’s not effective until whomever is there shoots it at least once a game probably. Still like the action and off ball movement it creates.

I know this is a stretch, but why can't Battle/Garcia/etc fit that role? They will certainly bring the defender with.

 

[Gopherfan84]

I know this is a stretch, but why can't Battle/Garcia/etc fit that role? They will certainly bring the defender with.

I think they choose who’s there by the defender, not necessarily the offensive guy. If the 5 was guarding Garcia I bet he’d be there

 

[MennoSota]

1st off, you linked his player page.

2nd, please break down his playing and coaching career prior to Indiana to see how that winning percentage compares to Ben Johnson. Nothing to do with Ben’s playing ability. His teams sucked. He has lost a lot.

Thanks.

You referenced Ben Johnson as a player. I provided Bobby Knight as a player.

My point is that you don't have to be a great player to develop into a great coach.

 

[forever a gopher]

I do dig those benches.

High point so far of the CBJ era? They are snazzy.

Edit: I also like the updated uniforms and removal of the “white” floor. All of these are improvements, so I need to give credit where due. Too bad there aren’t more on-court highlights.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

You referenced Ben Johnson as a player. I provided Bobby Knight as a player.

My point is that you don't have to be a great player to develop into a great coach.

I never said anything about being a good player. No one did but you. I said Ben has been around a ton of losing teams. His college teams sucked. He has been on the bench for some very shitty teams.

Knight? Basically the opposite.

 

[WindyCityGopher]

I don't think a 6 year deal makes sense at all, but I like that leaders are sober and know this is going to take 4 years.

If this team is the result of sober leadership, then leadership had better start getting shitfaced until they puke down the front of their shirt, because the sober thing ain't working.

 

[golfing18now]

Ummmm Bobby Knight is somehow comparable to Ben Johnson because he played in the national title game all 3 years as a player, and they won it his first year?

Where is @dpodoll68 when you need him, to break down the merits of this comparison?

 

[howeda7]

High point so far of the CBJ era? They are snazzy.

Edit: I also like the updated uniforms and removal of the “white” floor. All of these are improvements, so I need to give credit where due. Too bad there aren’t more on-court highlights.

Replacing the awful floor almost makes up for the awful basketball. Almost.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

This thread delivers.

 

[Gopher Teeth]

You guys don't know anything about college basketball. Or you're closeted Badger fans. If you listen to what I say, you might learn something.

The ONLY thing that matters this year is getting our freshmen experience. Then next year we add 2 more good recruits. Then the year after is when we should look to win big.

Don't watch the games and get all emotional.

Last night was another good result. Ola-Joseph once again did well...11 points on 4/7 shooting and 5 rebounds. And Payne had 15 points on 6/6 shooting in 21 minutes. These are very good results at this early point. (Carrington did well last game...so it was nice to see Payne do well this game.)

I think I have finally figured you out. You are actually the interloper fan, who is trying to eliminate Minnesota basketball by convincing its fans to be satisfied with losing. You are the fan of different teams trying to convince people to embrace losing! Show us your basketball backboard with a Gophers logo on it, else we will know who you really are.

 

[golfing18now]

I think I have finally figured you out. You are actually the interloper fan, who is trying to eliminate Minnesota basketball by convincing its fans to be satisfied with losing. You are the fan of different teams trying to convince people to embrace losing! Show us your basketball backboard with a Gophers logo on it, else we will know who you really are.

Then to throw us off his scent, he surreptitiously changed his user name under the cloak of darkness to avoid detection. I think you are on to something Gopher Teeth.

 

[Bad Gopher]

I think I have finally figured you out. You are actually the interloper fan, who is trying to eliminate Minnesota basketball by convincing its fans to be satisfied with losing. You are the fan of different teams trying to convince people to embrace losing! Show us your basketball backboard with a Gophers logo on it, else we will know who you really are.

I think you fucking cracked the case. It's been right in front of our eyes the whole time!