Ben Johnson is a Disaster

[stocker08]

Trending in the right direction is a tough argument as the teams you’re saying this about (Wisconsin, Nebraska, Ohio State) are bottom feeders.

So even if we played better, we still lost at home to a bottom of the league Nebraska, lost to a bottom of the league Wisconsin (who had their star player get hit with 13 min remaining in the first half) and barely won against Ohio State (2-9 since Jan 2023). You could throw in Michigan as not being that great, and we still lost (and one of their best players got hurt).

I don’t think you can say either way if they were improving or not as they were playing bottom feeders and still losing…if that’s improving, we need more of a mutation to compete. I feel it fair judge the teams improvement against the B10s top teams, not the bottom feeders.

Improvement was being made. Still a bad team, but trending in the right direction. Losing our best player and another depth player was killer.

So if Pikiell should be the standard for patience on your end why can't us on the other side use Iowa St as the reason we should be a top 15 team already? Feels like a double standard on your end

You've missed the point. The point is that drawing conclusions based upon two seasons is idiotic.

 

[Gophers7633]

Think most posters agree that the team was trending in the right direction before the injuries....and has been significantly worse with the paper thin roster that we now have.

Pikiell's second team was better than Johnson's second team. Ok. Both were bad and finished last in the Big Ten. I'm just glad that knee jerk reaction fans don't make the decisions. I'm sure Rutgers had a lot of fans like you who wanted to pull the plug after the first year too.

I think most posters would agree we were shitty before the injuries and after.

Yes, both were bad. The Gophers are significantly worse. That's pretty obvious. Rutgers improved in his second season, and made the QF's of the BTT. I'm going to guess there were no Rutgers fans that wanted him gone considering he took over a 7 win team, ranked 279 in Kenpom and doubled their win total and KenPom ranking by the end of year two. You need to consider entry point of each hire. Pikiell takes over 7 win team that had won 3 combined B1G games before he got there, and the year before that was a bad AAC team. Avg KenPom rank prior three years was 209. Rutgers was a bad program.

It's really staggering you can find the difference in trajectory between the two situations. But, I guess you're content with this being the worst team in program history.

 

[Gophers7633]

Improvement was being made. Still a bad team, but trending in the right direction. Losing our best player and another depth player was killer.



You've missed the point. The point is that drawing conclusions based upon two seasons is idiotic.

Yeah because giving him five years to hopefully become an NIT team is the smart way to go.

 

[golfing18now]

We've gone over this ad nauseum. Carr was gone. Mashburn was going with Pitino regardless. Robbins very likely going with his uncle. Gabe may have been convinced to stay. But that's three of the four best pieces on Pitino's final team that went 6-14 in BT play gone. Ben Johnson hanging onto some of the role players remaining on the roster wouldn't have changed much.

You are right. We have gone over this ad nauseum. I think the back-up players on Pitino's team, particularly with another year of experiences, were better than Daniels, Ogele, Samuels, not filling, etc. We can agree to disagree on that point.

I'm curious stocker.....why are you so vehemently defending Johnson to the point you are disparaging other coaches whom are clearly more accomplished? Is it solely because you think he deserves more time? Or you are that impressed with the recruiting to date (wing span!)? Or you have seen progress on the court that many of us are struggling to see?

 

[Spaulding!No!]

This thread is still going?

 

[stocker08]

I think most posters would agree we were shitty before the injuries and after.

Yes, both were bad. The Gophers are significantly worse. That's pretty obvious. Rutgers improved in his second season, and made the QF's of the BTT. I'm going to guess there were no Rutgers fans that wanted him gone considering he took over a 7 win team, ranked 279 in Kenpom and doubled their win total and KenPom ranking by the end of year two. You need to consider entry point of each hire. Pikiell takes over 7 win team that had won 3 combined B1G games before he got there, and the year before that was a bad AAC team. Avg KenPom rank prior three years was 209. Rutgers was a bad program.

It's really staggering you can find the difference in trajectory between the two situations. But, I guess you're content with this being the worst team in program history.

Yeah because giving him five years to hopefully become an NIT team is the smart way to go.

Your entire argument seems to be that Pikiell deserved more than two seasons to build a team despite two last place finishes.....but Johnson does not. That Pikiell took over a terrible program....but somehow Johnson inherited a decent roster.

Two bad takes.

You are right. We have gone over this ad nauseum. I think the back-up players on Pitino's team, particularly with another year of experiences, were better than Daniels, Ogele, Samuels, not filling, etc. We can agree to disagree on that point.

I'm curious stocker.....why are you so vehemently defending Johnson to the point you are disparaging other coaches whom are clearly more accomplished? Is it solely because you think he deserves more time? Or you are that impressed with the recruiting to date (wing span!)? Or you have seen progress on the court that many of us are struggling to see?

Which of Pitino's bench players do you think would have been Big Ten starting quality players given more time. Gach? Omersa? Sam Freeman? Martice Mitchell? Tre Williams? It's funny that people are already ripping the freshman on this team.....and those same folks think that Johnson inherited some sort of decent roster. The best players on that last Pitino team that won six games in the BT were leaving. Maybe Gabe would have stayed. But no....those remaining guys wouldn't have made this team much better in the long run. Signing a large class of five freshman this past year was the right move. Rebuild with a base of his own players.

I'm defending Johnson because I think it's absurd that posters are calling him a failure or a "disaster" two years in. Not sure I'm disparaging other coaches. I'm pointing out that it's not abnormal for a coach to take a couple years before seeing results.

 

[Bfan]

I don’t see how Johnson survives here. I doubt recruiting will remain good after this year. Tough to win without good recruits. He got lucky in his first full recruiting cycle but that likely doesn’t continue with the losing. Some is his fault and some isn’t but at the end of the day it doesn’t matter, wins do.

What timeline do you mean for that? Do you mean canned after this season or inevitable the axe falls next season -- or something else?

 

[Gophers7633]

Your entire argument seems to be that Pikiell deserved more than two seasons to build a team despite two last place finishes.....but Johnson does not. That Pikiell took over a terrible program....but somehow Johnson inherited a decent roster.

Two bad takes.



Which of Pitino's bench players do you think would have been Big Ten starting quality players given more time. Gach? Omersa? Sam Freeman? Martice Mitchell? Tre Williams? It's funny that people are already ripping the freshman on this team.....and those same folks think that Johnson inherited some sort of decent roster. The best players on that last Pitino team that won six games in the BT were leaving. Maybe Gabe would have stayed. But no....those remaining guys wouldn't have made this team much better in the long run. Signing a large class of five freshman this past year was the right move. Rebuild with a base of his own players.

I'm defending Johnson because I think it's absurd that posters are calling him a failure or a "disaster" two years in. Not sure I'm disparaging other coaches. I'm pointing out that it's not abnormal for a coach to take a couple years before seeing results.

Pikiell's team showed improvement from year 1 to year 2(albeit slight). What don't you understand about that? Also, what don't you understand about the Gophers being significantly worse, and this trending to be the worst team ever. You keep wanting to compare the situations when they arent close. Which is a bad take.

You're also failing to realize that Johnson has no track record of anything. He was a failing assistant on an underachieving team, and has failed miserably as as HC as year two winds down. The team is trending in the wrong direction, and there's no hope on the horizon.

Also, this is a new age in CBB. It's never been easier to turn it around quicker. There are a TON of examples of coaches who have done it. It's why there is frustration. He has been a disaster. What is one positive thing he has done since he's been hired? He has a top 40 recruit coming in, which im glad about, but the rest of the roster is in shambles that one recruit won't take us from the 230th ranked team to a tournament team.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

The new Gaardsy Gopher show had Grimm on and he stated Ben is stuck cause he cannot add players due to previous offers. It sounded kind of dire. They tried to stay positive but they didn’t have anything to discuss advised from the team is not winning and they offered no solutions/ideas.

 

[mngolf]

Think most posters agree that the team was trending in the right direction before the injuries....and has been significantly worse with the paper thin roster that we now have.

Pikiell's second team was better than Johnson's second team. Ok. Both were bad and finished last in the Big Ten. I'm just glad that knee jerk reaction fans don't make the decisions. I'm sure Rutgers had a lot of fans like you who wanted to pull the plug after the first year too.

No one wanted him gone after 1 season. It's his 2nd that is changing minds. People who can't discuss things without exaggerating or changing history, lose all credibility.

 

[stocker08]

Pikiell's team showed improvement from year 1 to year 2(albeit slight). What don't you understand about that? Also, what don't you understand about the Gophers being significantly worse, and this trending to be the worst team ever. You keep wanting to compare the situations when they arent close. Which is a bad take.

You're also failing to realize that Johnson has no track record of anything. He was a failing assistant on an underachieving team, and has failed miserably as as HC as year two winds down. The team is trending in the wrong direction, and there's no hope on the horizon.

Also, this is a new age in CBB. It's never been easier to turn it around quicker. There are a TON of examples of coaches who have done it. It's why there is frustration. He has been a disaster. What is one positive thing he has done since he's been hired? He has a top 40 recruit coming in, which im glad about, but the rest of the roster is in shambles that one recruit won't take us from the 230th ranked team to a tournament team.

Pikiell's team showed exactly how much improvement? Went from 15-18 (3-15) to 15-19 (3-15) in year two.

As for the Gophers being significantly worse.....you do realize that Johnson basically used all his scholarships on upperclassmen transfers that first year. Really didn't have time to recruit the high school circuit so that's what he did. After Battle....the next FIVE highest PT players on that roster were all SENIORS! Problem now is that he has nearly zilch coming up the pipeline on the roster.....so what did he do? Signed a heavy high school class to start building around.....because....while some coaches managed to build a team strictly through the portal.....it isn't the case for everyone. Minnesota isn't a destination school. Anyone who thinks that we weren't going to have growing pains....especially considering the ridiculous injuries wiping out the roster.....doesn't have any perspective.

You have no perspective. You have no credibility.

 

[Bfan]

Pikiell's team showed improvement from year 1 to year 2(albeit slight). What don't you understand about that? Also, what don't you understand about the Gophers being significantly worse, and this trending to be the worst team ever. You keep wanting to compare the situations when they arent close. Which is a bad take.

You're also failing to realize that Johnson has no track record of anything. He was a failing assistant on an underachieving team, and has failed miserably as as HC as year two winds down. The team is trending in the wrong direction, and there's no hope on the horizon.

Also, this is a new age in CBB. It's never been easier to turn it around quicker. There are a TON of examples of coaches who have done it. It's why there is frustration. He has been a disaster. What is one positive thing he has done since he's been hired? He has a top 40 recruit coming in, which im glad about, but the rest of the roster is in shambles that one recruit won't take us from the 230th ranked team to a tournament team.

Why, why do you make no mention at all about the DEVASTATING Injuries:

-Including Payne who logged long minutes last night with a foot injury and was out before with a concussion.

-Garcia out with an injury still. He's the best player out many games. Can you respond to this?

-Carrington out with an injury. He did have a 20 point game and the rest was a freshmen in process.

-Ihnen out with an injury. Another article here talks about him being a defense standout. Can you respond to this please?

-Battle missed time with injury.

-Fox out with an injury.

-Payne, JOJ, Henley, Carrington make for this to be about the youngest team by minutes played in power 5 basketball. Carrington being injured may have changed that, I don't know

Star Tribune had previously said the played minutes were the lowest of a Power 5 team or just about any a Power 5 team, something like that.

Payne and JOJ are getting heavy, heavy minutes -- freshmen -- and Henley right in the rotation. That's relying on players not even Sophomores yet and giving them prep minutes looking to a better future.

Can you respond to that please?

-Christie and Evans coming in next year.

Johnson got the 3rd best prospect in modenr Gophers basketball history -- since this began being tracked -- when he got Evans.



-Johnson got Garcia from the transfer portal, and probably Garcia from Minnesota had something to do with this.

-This is Minnesota, a program that for a long time has nearly zero recruiting clout. Zero. Evans is the first top prospect in how long, and how many has this team ever, ever been able to get? 3, in modern history of Gophers basketball. Other programs achieve that haul over just two years. And this program has been either bad or not as good as people remember over that time. It's a tough job.

-At Rutgers, which is a slightly worse situation than the Gophers, Pikiell's record was atrocious the first few years. Horrible. Now many years later he's called a great coach and extended to 2030. It took several years for him to show results.

There's no hope on the horizon.

What is one positive thing he has done since he's been hired?

And respond to the injuries part of my post please.

Injuries.

 

[Gophers7633]

Pikiell's team showed exactly how much improvement? Went from 15-18 (3-15) to 15-19 (3-15) in year two.

As for the Gophers being significantly worse.....you do realize that Johnson basically used all his scholarships on upperclassmen transfers that first year. Really didn't have time to recruit the high school circuit so that's what he did. After Battle....the next FIVE highest PT players on that roster were all SENIORS! Problem now is that he has nearly zilch coming up the pipeline on the roster.....so what did he do? Signed a heavy high school class to start building around.....because....while some coaches managed to build a team strictly through the portal.....it isn't the case for everyone. Minnesota isn't a destination school. Anyone who thinks that we weren't going to have growing pains....especially considering the ridiculous injuries wiping out the roster.....doesn't have any perspective.

You have no perspective. You have no credibility.

They showed significant improvement on the defensive side of the ball, and actually had an identity. They made the QF's of the BTT. Their overall efficiency was better. It didn't translate to more wins, but they showed significant improvement in his first two years. It's just a fact, for whatever reason you seem to be unable to grasp it.

This roster is in shambles with or without injuries. It's not to much to ask to put something together that doesn't make us the worst team in program history. Hell even fully healthy we were getting run out of the gym by DePaul, UNLV, and Michigan, and barely getting by the likes of CMU, Chicago State and Cal Baptist. It's a fucking disaster. I didn't even have that high of an expectation level to begin with. And I have no credibility because I want to field a team that isn't a laughingstock. Okay then lmao.

 

[Gophers7633]

Why, why do you make no mention at all about the DEVASTATING Injuries:

-Including Payne who logged long minutes last night with a foot injury and was out before with a concussion.

-Garcia out with an injury still. He's the best player out many games. Can you respond to this?

-Carrington out with an injury. He did have a 20 point game and the rest was a freshmen in process.

-Ihnen out with an injury. Another article here talks about him being a defense standout. Can you respond to this please?

-Battle missed time with injury.

-Fox out with an injury.

-Payne, JOJ, Henley, Carrington make for this to be about the youngest team by minutes played in power 5 basketball. Carrington being injured may have changed that, I don't know

Star Tribune had previously said the played minutes were the lowest of a Power 5 team or just about any a Power 5 team, something like that.

Payne and JOJ are getting heavy, heavy minutes -- freshmen -- and Henley right in the rotation. That's relying on players not even Sophomores yet and giving them prep minutes looking to a better future.

Can you respond to that please?

-Christie and Evans coming in next year.

Johnson got the 3rd best prospect in modenr Gophers basketball history -- since this began being tracked -- when he got Evans.



-Johnson got Garcia from the transfer portal, and probably Garcia from Minnesota had something to do with this.

-This is Minnesota, a program that for a long time has nearly zero recruiting clout. Zero. Evans is the first top prospect in how long, and how many has this team ever, ever been able to get? 3, in modern history of Gophers basketball. Other programs achieve that haul over just two years. And this program has been either bad or not as good as people remember over that time. It's a tough job.

-At Rutgers, which is a slightly worse situation than the Gophers, Pikiell's record was atrocious the first few years. Horrible. Now many years later he's called a great coach and extended to 2030. It took several years for him to show results.









And respond to the injuries part of my post please.

Injuries.

I have talked about the injuries. We sucked before and we sucked after. What the difference? As for the rest of it, im not taking the time to read all of it.

 

[Wet_Blanket_Guy]

Pikiell's team showed exactly how much improvement? Went from 15-18 (3-15) to 15-19 (3-15) in year two.

As for the Gophers being significantly worse.....you do realize that Johnson basically used all his scholarships on upperclassmen transfers that first year. Really didn't have time to recruit the high school circuit so that's what he did. After Battle....the next FIVE highest PT players on that roster were all SENIORS! Problem now is that he has nearly zilch coming up the pipeline on the roster.....so what did he do? Signed a heavy high school class to start building around.....because....while some coaches managed to build a team strictly through the portal.....it isn't the case for everyone. Minnesota isn't a destination school. Anyone who thinks that we weren't going to have growing pains....especially considering the ridiculous injuries wiping out the roster.....doesn't have any perspective.

You have no perspective. You have no credibility.

Kansas State is such a better destination school, or Missouri

 

[Gophers7633]

Kansas State is such a better destination school, or Missouri

There are so many examples of 1st or 2nd year head coaches at schools similar to the Gophers that have had great success you lose count. Just makes it all the more frustrating.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

They showed significant improvement on the defensive side of the ball, and actually had an identity. They made the QF's of the BTT. Their overall efficiency was better. It didn't translate to more wins, but they showed significant improvement in his first two years. It's just a fact, for whatever reason you seem to be unable to grasp it.

This roster is in shambles with or without injuries. It's not to much to ask to put something together that doesn't make us the worst team in program history. Hell even fully healthy we were getting run out of the gym by DePaul, UNLV, and Michigan, and barely getting by the likes of CMU, Chicago State and Cal Baptist. It's a fucking disaster. I didn't even have that high of an expectation level to begin with. And I have no credibility because I want to field a team that isn't a laughingstock. Okay then lmao.

Don't you get it, with Rutgers you only judge them by wins and losses. With MN, it's blasphemy to even discuss wins and losses.

As to your point about injuries, in some ways the injuries helped hide Ben's horrendous roster management this year. Can you imagine how many PFs would be playing out of position if Garcia, Battle, Ihnen, and Fox were all healthy all season?

Would he really have shoehorned Ihnen in as a SG?
Or Battle as a SG?
Does Fox take most of JOJ minutes?

If you try to imagine a rotation of this team without a few PFs out, it really highlights what an absolute dumpster fire of a roster we have.

 

[stocker08]

They showed significant improvement on the defensive side of the ball, and actually had an identity. They made the QF's of the BTT. Their overall efficiency was better. It didn't translate to more wins, but they showed significant improvement in his first two years. It's just a fact, for whatever reason you seem to be unable to grasp it.

This roster is in shambles with or without injuries. It's not to much to ask to put something together that doesn't make us the worst team in program history. Hell even fully healthy we were getting run out of the gym by DePaul, UNLV, and Michigan, and barely getting by the likes of CMU, Chicago State and Cal Baptist. It's a fucking disaster. I didn't even have that high of an expectation level to begin with. And I have no credibility because I want to field a team that isn't a laughingstock. Okay then lmao.

They were so significantly improved that they lost more games. Yay?

Your lack of credibility doesn't come from the desire to field a better team. Your lack of credibility comes from the fact that you've never built a college basketball team and you know dick about it. Take a look at the roster from last year. Johnson had to tie that thing together with scotch tape and paper clips. It's actually pretty amazing that they won four Big Ten games.

Fact is that a first time head coach at a school that has been nowhere on the college basketball radar for the entirety of most current players lives isn't going to refill the roster with highly desirable transfers year in and year out. The ONLY way this is going to turn out successful was building from the bottom. That's what we're seeing. Injuries across the board have forced true freshman into playing way more minutes than they probably would have otherwise. Has the team playing guys that otherwise wouldn't be seeing the floor.

It's a process and this is the beginning. Have some perspective. Ben Johnson isn't going anywhere for the next two years unless an exodus occurs after this year and next year is another disaster. So strap in.

 

[stocker08]

Kansas State is such a better destination school, or Missouri

I'm starting to get it. You just started watching basketball and are learning on the go. Might want to check out KSU and Missouri seasons in the past couple decades. Both have had stretches of success that Minnesota hasn't come close to.

 

[tikited]

At least we aren't Ohio State. They actually lost to us!

 

[Gophers7633]

They were so significantly improved that they lost more games. Yay?

Your lack of credibility doesn't come from the desire to field a better team. Your lack of credibility comes from the fact that you've never built a college basketball team and you know dick about it. Take a look at the roster from last year. Johnson had to tie that thing together with scotch tape and paper clips. It's actually pretty amazing that they won four Big Ten games.

Fact is that a first time head coach at a school that has been nowhere on the college basketball radar for the entirety of most current players lives isn't going to refill the roster with highly desirable transfers year in and year out. The ONLY way this is going to turn out successful was building from the bottom. That's what we're seeing. Injuries across the board have forced true freshman into playing way more minutes than they probably would have otherwise. Has the team playing guys that otherwise wouldn't be seeing the floor.

It's a process and this is the beginning. Have some perspective. Ben Johnson isn't going anywhere for the next two years unless an exodus occurs after this year and next year is another disaster. So strap in.

They were significantly improved from when he took over, with a slight improvement from year one to year two. And yes it didn't show in the win column, but they were improved in every metric out there. I'm able to look past wins and losses if there is some type of improvement. But there hasn't been. This whole season has been a shit show. We have no identity. We arent good on one side of the ball and the FR guards don't look like B1G level players.

I can appreciate a rebuild. It just shouldn't take five fucking years to be a competent team, especially in this era of college basketball.

I mean what is next year going to look like? What are reasonable expectations. To go 5-15 in B1G play? I know you're banking on other teams being worse, but being worse than we are is a huge drop for every other program in the B1G.

 

[Gopher Teeth]

I just bought season tickets!!!


Just kidding. LOL

We know, we know you don't even believe what you post.

 

[Gopherfan84]

They were significantly improved from when he took over, with a slight improvement from year one to year two. And yes it didn't show in the win column, but they were improved in every metric out there. I'm able to look past wins and losses if there is some type of improvement. But there hasn't been. This whole season has been a shit show. We have no identity. We arent good on one side of the ball and the FR guards don't look like B1G level players.

Very few freshman guards do look like B1G level players. That was Ben’s point at the press conference. It’s a big step from high school and guys take big jumps from freshman to sophomore.

I can appreciate a rebuild. It just shouldn't take five fucking years to be a competent team, especially in this era of college basketball.

No one truly thinks this is ok for 2 more seasons.

I mean what is next year going to look like? What are reasonable expectations. To go 5-15 in B1G play? I know you're banking on other teams being worse, but being worse than we are is a huge drop for every other program in the B1G.

Banking on teams being worse is a bad idea. So is not expecting our guys to improve.

 

[Wet_Blanket_Guy]

I'm starting to get it. You just started watching basketball and are learning on the go. Might want to check out KSU and Missouri seasons in the past couple decades. Both have had stretches of success that Minnesota hasn't come close to.

How have they been the last 15 years?

 

[Bad Gopher]

He knows his seat is warm. He knows next year is key. What's that line from Ghostbusters about actually requiring results?

Maybe this time he'll actually actively re-recruit the players on his current roster rather than passively let them walk. Maybe next year he'll fill all his scholarships. Maybe next year he'll back up the big talk about ferocious defense by actually teaching and demanding ferocious defense. Maybe from now on he'll earn his keep.

 

[Gophers7633]

Very few freshman guards do look like B1G level players. That was Ben’s point at the press conference. It’s a big step from high school and guys take big jumps from freshman to sophomore.

No one truly thinks this is ok for 2 more seasons.

Banking on teams being worse is a bad idea. So is not expecting our guys to improve.

The bar has been set so astronomically low, that even with significant improvement, we're still not going to be close to being a tournament-caliber team.

I do expect our FR to get better, and I don't want to demean them, but none of them were highly rated can't miss prospects. None were ranked inside the top 100. I think they could all be good role players(like a Race Thompson type at IU), but none of these guys are going to turn into a Coffey, Oturu, or Mbwake type of player. I don't even think they can be as good/effective as a Nate Mason type. They just arent as talented as those guys IMO. Hopefully, I'm wrong.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Very few freshman guards do look like B1G level players. That was Ben’s point at the press conference.

This is just not true. Gabe K, Coffey, and Mason all looked like B1G players as freshman and that’s just under Pitino. Tubby had several as well. There are other freshman guards competing at a high level in the B1G and around the country this season.

These are just more excuses.

 

[DarthGopher]

For the Johnson apologetics out there, i.e. Bfan, Mennosota, etc, interested in your thoughts.

Next year Johnson has a nice class coming in, 2 four* and a five*. If at this time next year you are staring at the same thing, which is a team that is completely uncompetitive and out-coached, do you give Johnson his pink slip/walking papers?

I don't know what is going to happen tomorrow let alone next year. Hell, I can't be certain of an hour from now.

If this, If that, If, If, If, If........I realize message boards are filled with people with anxiety disorders desperately trying to cope with uncertainty, but holy crap, this catastrophizing is impressive.

 

[Gopherfan84]

This is just not true. Gabe K, Coffey, and Mason all looked like B1G players as freshman and that’s just under Pitino. Tubby had several as well. There are other freshman guards competing at a high level in the B1G and around the country this season.

These are just more excuses.

You bring up some players that have done well as freshman. I said most, not all. Sorry for belief in development of players and not believing it’s an excuse

 

[Gopherfan84]

The bar has been set so astronomically low, that even with significant improvement, we're still not going to be close to being a tournament-caliber team.

I do expect our FR to get better, and I don't want to demean them, but none of them were highly rated can't miss prospects. None were ranked inside the top 100. I think they could all be good role players(like a Race Thompson type at IU), but none of these guys are going to turn into a Coffey, Oturu, or Mbwake type of player. I don't even think they can be as good/effective as a Nate Mason type. They just arent as talented as those guys IMO. Hopefully, I'm wrong.

Payne has a shot to be all conference, the rest I agree have lower ceilings. We need those guys too and will help. Wisconsin and other programs do it with lower rated guys. It can be done with proper development. We will see if that happens