Ben Johnson is a Disaster

jovs

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The biggest what if in the last 20 years was if Royce didn’t take the laptop and Trevor was acquitted sooner. There was a time when this team could’ve had Al Nolan, Blake, Royce, Rodney, Mbakwe, Devoe, Ralph, Colton Iverson, Paul Carter, and Westbrook. Hands down the deepest and best opportunity to win the conference. Fell apart with Royce, Nolan, and Mbakwe not playing, but we still went 9-9 in conference.
Had it stayed together that would have been a team that could have had a deep run in the NCAA tournament. He got Walker, Eliason, and Austin Hollins the following year so recruiting was still decent but not great.

Tubby got cancer I think the next year and recruiting trailed off after that but with good reason, he probably should have taken a year off.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold

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You think Gabel is going to allow a firing after 3, or even 4 years? No chance. And personally I think he has to get 4-5 years. They hired another learn on the job guy. That was their plan. So we are going to have to let him learn the hard way- on the job.
I hated the "learn on the job" talk with Pitino and hate it with Johnson. Sure, a newer coach is expected to improve and learn more with experience. This is big time college head coaching, not an unpaid internship. If you hire a newer coach, the standard should still be that they be ready on day 1 to be a Big Ten level basketball coach, not hope they grow into it.
 

Bfan

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Take out a tape measure.

Open it to 7' 7".

That's the wingspan of Dennis Evans.

If I understand this correctly he signed his recruitment commitment. He is coming to Minnesota. The talk that he's going straight to the NBA wouldn't make sense. He needs to muscle up. Minnesota has world-class facilities for that. He's been smart about his training and development so far, from what is being said about that. He has areas he's working on.

So then does he go to the NBA after next season? Maybe. Probably. Except from what I've heard about him he is going to savor his college experience. Going to the NBA soon means you give up the college years which can be the greatest time of life. Or maybe not...

1674406306798.png
 

Bfan

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I hated the "learn on the job" talk with Pitino and hate it with Johnson. Sure, a newer coach is expected to improve and learn more with experience. This is big time college head coaching, not an unpaid internship. If you hire a newer coach, the standard should still be that they be ready on day 1 to be a Big Ten level basketball coach, not hope they grow into it.

Yes and at the same time the respected Tubby Smith who came from Kentucky was bounced from the NCAA tournament in the first round twice in a row. "And the pain continues for Gophers fans as Tubby Smith for the second year in a row..." A great basketball mind was still more suffering for Gophers fans.

At least the university stayed with him for for stability -- he finished 9th in the Big Ten the following two years. So much for coaches knowing what they are doing being always better.

The Ben Johnson plan is underway. Evans and the freshmen. If they don't pan out next season then the Johnson supporters will be defenseless and eaten. For now, Johnson gets to work his plan --

Even if he's not a Tubby Smith.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold

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Yes and at the same time the respected Tubby Smith who came from Kentucky was bounced from the NCAA tournament in the first round twice in a row. "And the pain continues for Gophers fans as Tubby Smith for the second year in a row..." A great basketball mind was still more suffering for Gophers fans.

At least the university stayed with him for for stability -- he finished 9th in the Big Ten the following two years. So much for coaches knowing what they are doing being always better.

The Ben Johnson plan is underway. Evans and the freshmen. If they don't pan out next season then the Johnson supporters will be defenseless and eaten. For now, Johnson gets to work his plan --

Even if he's not a Tubby Smith.
I'm not sure if follow your point. All I said was that the B1G head coaching positions aren't for "learning on the job," and I certainly didn't praise Tubby. I was disappointed in the results Tubby got here, but Johnson is trucking towards two years that are both appreciably worse than the worst of Tubby's six years, and the best thing his most ardent defenders seem to be able to say is that he has a recruit coming in next year who can hopefully get us back to the level we were at in year 6 (after which Tubby was fired). Tubby was fired for poor performance, and right now, Johnson isn't living up to that low bar.
 


scools12

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If Coyle made a B1G head coaching hire thinking BJ needed time to learn, then he needs to step down. B1G head coaching jobs are not for training.
Coyle hires a guy with no head coach experience for a B1G job and you
don’t think he knew this was an on the job training hire?

Might end up being a colossal mistake but Coyle knew exactly what he was getting into.
 

TNGophfan

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Coyle hires a guy with no head coach experience for a B1G job and you
don’t think he knew this was an on the job training hire?

Of course Coyle knew exactly what he was getting to.
It was discussed ad nauseum when Ben was hired, so not sure we should go down that rabbit hole again, but I'm not convinced that Coyle wasn't told to hire Ben.
 

Bfan

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I'm not sure if follow your point. All I said was that the B1G head coaching positions aren't for "learning on the job," and I certainly didn't praise Tubby. I was disappointed in the results Tubby got here, but Johnson is trucking towards two years that are both appreciably worse than the worst of Tubby's six years, and the best thing his most ardent defenders seem to be able to say is that he has a recruit coming in next year who can hopefully get us back to the level we were at in year 6 (after which Tubby was fired). Tubby was fired for poor performance, and right now, Johnson isn't living up to that low bar.

Just because someone like Tubby Smith, as an example, is a better basketball mind than Johnson doesn't mean that it leads to success.

Yes, you are right that the only argument for Johnson is that he got Evans -- which I think is the key to success. I'll add to that the four freshmen getting minutes that need to pan out. I'll take that over the basketball mind of Tubby Smith any day.

You are right that I partly shifted the subject. That's because I detected an argument being made in this forum that Johnson is somehow falling short of the glorious era of Tubby Smith. Ah, no. Like wow. Johnson is falling short... of what? Of Tubby Smith's one and done two times in a row and then two times in a row 9th in the Big Ten era?

I am most grateful for Dennis Evans. Darn right I'm a Johnson supporter for that. I'll take that over the great basketball mind Tubby Smith. At least I have hope. Next year hasn't come yet. I get to hope.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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I don't know about Evans being Johnson's savior either, but I do believe he'll have an impact. Sure, he's going to be bullied around some in the Big Ten, but I'd be awfully surprised if he doesn't put on some muscle between now and when he plays next year. Keep in mind his dad is 7 feet and looks to be around 320 based on how he looks in pictures-huge guy. And Evans frame looks like he can easily pack it on with some help from the trainer here.

And even if he gets bullied a bit, a guy with a 7-7 wingspan who's pretty athletic and is widely regarded as the best shot blocker in the country is going to have an impact on this team. Pair him with an impactful point guard, and some improvement from the freshmen (and some depth help possibly from Fox and Ihnen, assuming they don't blow out their knees again), and this team is definitely better. And they need to get better.
He may be the next Jamarion Sharp (Western Kentucky 7’5” athletic big who is a rim defender)
2021-22 highlights

He hasn’t changed the fortunes of Western Kentucky.
Just because someone like Tubby Smith, as an example, is a better basketball mind than Johnson doesn't mean that it leads to success.

Yes, you are right that the only argument for Johnson is that he got Evans -- which I think is the key to success. I'll add to that the four freshmen getting minutes that need to pan out. I'll take that over the basketball mind of Tubby Smith any day.

You are right that I partly shifted the subject. That's because I detected an argument being made in this forum that Johnson is somehow falling short of the glorious era of Tubby Smith. Ah, no. Like wow. Johnson is falling short... of what? Of Tubby Smith's one and done two times in a row and then two times in a row 9th in the Big Ten era?

I am most grateful for Dennis Evans. Darn right I'm a Johnson supporter for that. I'll take that over the great basketball mind Tubby Smith. At least I have hope. Next year hasn't come yet. I get to hope.
Even with Dennis, he ain’t taking this team to the NCAA based on the product that has been presented to fans this year…and the lack of growth of our players. Unless he is Dikembe and Christie is putting up Eric Gordon freshman numbers, we are in trouble.
 



MNVCGUY

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Well, if we are middle of the B1G then we should make the tournament. If we are bottom third of the B1G then we won't make the tournament.

So, if we don't make the NCAA tournament, we won't be in the upper two-thirds of the B1G and the coach's seat should be warming up intensely.
Yep, improvement in year three but still falling short of post season play would lead to a very warm seat heading into year 4.

Most important part is clear and obvious signs the program is headed in the right direction in year 3. If those are missing after year 3 I think a change could happen.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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Clem Haskins took them to the NCAA Tournament I think 6 times including a Final 4, an Elite 8, and a Sweet 16. Plus with an asterisk Haskins won two NIT tournaments. That's pretty close to being an established program for more than a blip up.

Dennis Evans is the most exciting news since then.

Recruiting is so important. A catch 22. You can't get top prospects without them.

Tubby Smith didn't advance in the NCAA tournament those years and -- I could be wrong here -- didn't recruit any elite players like a Kris Humphries or a Dennis Evans.

My memory for years has been that Minnesota just doesn't get the players, trapped.

Ben Johnson did that! Give the man his due. And hope one of those freshman pans out as a legit guard/wing shooter.
Clem has nothing to do with this conversation, you said Evans is the most exciting news since then (that means we compare the seasons AFTER CLEM).

You're legitimately more excited for next season than you were that team from Tubby. Ok.
 

howeda7

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You're legitimately more excited for next season than you were that team from Tubby. Ok.
He's more excited for next year's team than the one that was the "odds on favorite to win the national title" until the AD ruined it?
 





MennoSota

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By what year will Evans be National Player if the Year?
Will he stay as many years as Eddy? If so, then it will be 4 years after he arrives.
Evans is 7'1" with a 7'7" wingspan. He will actually run the floor much better than Eddy. I am looking forward to seeing Evans progress over the course of his time at Minnesota.
The point about Eddy is that it took time to get to where he's at this season.
 

MennoSota

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It was discussed ad nauseum when Ben was hired, so not sure we should go down that rabbit hole again, but I'm not convinced that Coyle wasn't told to hire Ben.
Conspiracy theories go to the OT to live...
 


short ornery norwegian

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I think one of the questions about Evans is how does he fit in the rotation with Payne. they are both post players all the way. neither one can play the 4. Also have Fox (if healthy) in the mix at the 5.

the only good thing is that they won't have to worry about foul trouble. with 15 fouls to give between 3 guys, should have a decent player on the floor all the time.

hate to sound defeatist, but if the Gophers don't find a real PG somewhere, I'm not sure that Evans makes enough of a difference to matter.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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Will he stay as many years as Eddy? If so, then it will be 4 years after he arrives.
Evans is 7'1" with a 7'7" wingspan. He will actually run the floor much better than Eddy. I am looking forward to seeing Evans progress over the course of his time at Minnesota.
The point about Eddy is that it took time to get to where he's at this season.
Jamarion Sharp potential
 

BTChamp

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The biggest what if in the last 20 years was if Royce didn’t take the laptop and Trevor was acquitted sooner. There was a time when this team could’ve had Al Nolan, Blake, Royce, Rodney, Mbakwe, Devoe, Ralph, Colton Iverson, Paul Carter, and Westbrook. Hands down the deepest and best opportunity to win the conference. Fell apart with Royce, Nolan, and Mbakwe not playing, but we still went 9-9 in conference.
That would have been a blast to watch. Oh what could have been..........
 

Bob_Loblaw

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The biggest what if in the last 20 years was if Royce didn’t take the laptop and Trevor was acquitted sooner. There was a time when this team could’ve had Al Nolan, Blake, Royce, Rodney, Mbakwe, Devoe, Ralph, Colton Iverson, Paul Carter, and Westbrook. Hands down the deepest and best opportunity to win the conference. Fell apart with Royce, Nolan, and Mbakwe not playing, but we still went 9-9 in conference.
I agree with you but with one small nit. Trevor wasn't acquitted, he was convicted.
 

Bfan

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Freshmen Payne and Ola-Joseph look like legit players as freshmen. They are the future. Right there is success. Payne is going to be a beast.

The two freshmen shooters Carrington and Henley are iffy right now but it's still way too early to know.



The 2018 recruiting class of Daniel Oturu, Gabe Kalscheur, and Jarvis Omersa was considered one of the stronger groups of the Richard Pitino era. Ben Johnson played a massive part in landing that 2018 group and four years later, now as the head coach, Ben Johnson has put together a 2022 group (with more to come) that strongly resembles the 2018 group.

Quick refresher, Ben Johnson was an assistant for former Minnesota Head Coach Richard Pitino during the 2017 summer when Omersa and Kalscheur joined Oturu (who committed earlier that winter) as committed recruit. The local trio (Omersa from Orono, Kalscheur from DeLaSalle, Oturu from Cretin-Derham Hall) arrived on campus in June of 2018 but by that point Ben Johnson had taken an assistant job at Xavier.

Johnson has returned to Minnesota as the head coach and his first three commitments of the 2022 class have been Josh Ola-Joseph of Osseo, Braeden Carrington of Park Center, and Pharrel Payne of Park of Cottage Grove. Three players that - like the 2018 trio - are from Minnesota. The positions of those players - both in prospect status and spots on the floor - line up in a similar way.


Pharrel Payne (2022) and Daniel Oturu (2018). The similarities here are quite long. While Oturu is a bit longer, more agile, and was ranked higher (top 40), Payne is much stronger than Oturu was at that age and a more physical low player at that same age. As far as the similarities.
  • Both players are from the Woodbury area with Daniel being from the eastern part of Woodbury (Daniel played for Stillwater High School before transferring to CDH) and Pharrel being from the southern part that leads to him going to Park of Cottage Grove.
  • Both players are in that 6'8/6'9 range
  • Daniel was ranked as a four star player and it's expected that Pharrel Payne will have four stars in his bio when the 247 rankings are resorted in September.
  • Pharrel and Daniel are both viewed as the center pieces of their recruiting classes. Daniel had big potential and was drafted by the Clippers, Payne - who just turned 17 - also has great potential with a ceiling that is tough to measure.
  • Both are active low post defenders that have great timing on their shot contesting/shot blocking, both rebound/rebounded aggressively and with constant effort, both are/were highly productive low post players that started developing a solid face-up jumper at the same time in their careers....

See more at article link.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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Freshmen Payne and Ola-Joseph look like legit players as freshmen. They are the future. Right there is success. Payne is going to be a beast.

The two freshmen shooters Carrington and Henley are iffy right now but it's still way too early to know.



The 2018 recruiting class of Daniel Oturu, Gabe Kalscheur, and Jarvis Omersa was considered one of the stronger groups of the Richard Pitino era. Ben Johnson played a massive part in landing that 2018 group and four years later, now as the head coach, Ben Johnson has put together a 2022 group (with more to come) that strongly resembles the 2018 group.

Quick refresher, Ben Johnson was an assistant for former Minnesota Head Coach Richard Pitino during the 2017 summer when Omersa and Kalscheur joined Oturu (who committed earlier that winter) as committed recruit. The local trio (Omersa from Orono, Kalscheur from DeLaSalle, Oturu from Cretin-Derham Hall) arrived on campus in June of 2018 but by that point Ben Johnson had taken an assistant job at Xavier.

Johnson has returned to Minnesota as the head coach and his first three commitments of the 2022 class have been Josh Ola-Joseph of Osseo, Braeden Carrington of Park Center, and Pharrel Payne of Park of Cottage Grove. Three players that - like the 2018 trio - are from Minnesota. The positions of those players - both in prospect status and spots on the floor - line up in a similar way.


Pharrel Payne (2022) and Daniel Oturu (2018). The similarities here are quite long. While Oturu is a bit longer, more agile, and was ranked higher (top 40), Payne is much stronger than Oturu was at that age and a more physical low player at that same age. As far as the similarities.
  • Both players are from the Woodbury area with Daniel being from the eastern part of Woodbury (Daniel played for Stillwater High School before transferring to CDH) and Pharrel being from the southern part that leads to him going to Park of Cottage Grove.
  • Both players are in that 6'8/6'9 range
  • Daniel was ranked as a four star player and it's expected that Pharrel Payne will have four stars in his bio when the 247 rankings are resorted in September.
  • Pharrel and Daniel are both viewed as the center pieces of their recruiting classes. Daniel had big potential and was drafted by the Clippers, Payne - who just turned 17 - also has great potential with a ceiling that is tough to measure.
  • Both are active low post defenders that have great timing on their shot contesting/shot blocking, both rebound/rebounded aggressively and with constant effort, both are/were highly productive low post players that started developing a solid face-up jumper at the same time in their careers....

See more at article link.
You realize we all lived through this right?
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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You realize we all lived through this right?

Not only did we live through it, it's obvious that Mason, Murphy, Coffey, Gabe, Oturu, and Mashburn Jr were all better as freshman than any of the freshman we currently have. Curry probably was too, and even Jelly had better numbers as a freshman than our current group.
 

Gopher Teeth

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I understand the praise for the talent and basketball expertise of Tubby Smith.

And at the same time they lost 62-76 in the first round to Texas and then the next year first round to Xavier 65-54.

The "oohs" and "ahs" of that era probably have some memory drift of what really happened.

OK, so here we are today. Dennis Evans changes everything next season.

They're playing the freshmen now because the bet is that everything is on the line next year. Right now Carrington and Henley are not looking good. I believe that Carrington is going to come through. But if not, the promise of Evans coming and the freshmen are coming only works once.
Which past freshman post player is what you expect Evans to be next year, what is the comp?
 





Gophers7633

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Freshmen Payne and Ola-Joseph look like legit players as freshmen. They are the future. Right there is success. Payne is going to be a beast.

The two freshmen shooters Carrington and Henley are iffy right now but it's still way too early to know.



The 2018 recruiting class of Daniel Oturu, Gabe Kalscheur, and Jarvis Omersa was considered one of the stronger groups of the Richard Pitino era. Ben Johnson played a massive part in landing that 2018 group and four years later, now as the head coach, Ben Johnson has put together a 2022 group (with more to come) that strongly resembles the 2018 group.

Quick refresher, Ben Johnson was an assistant for former Minnesota Head Coach Richard Pitino during the 2017 summer when Omersa and Kalscheur joined Oturu (who committed earlier that winter) as committed recruit. The local trio (Omersa from Orono, Kalscheur from DeLaSalle, Oturu from Cretin-Derham Hall) arrived on campus in June of 2018 but by that point Ben Johnson had taken an assistant job at Xavier.

Johnson has returned to Minnesota as the head coach and his first three commitments of the 2022 class have been Josh Ola-Joseph of Osseo, Braeden Carrington of Park Center, and Pharrel Payne of Park of Cottage Grove. Three players that - like the 2018 trio - are from Minnesota. The positions of those players - both in prospect status and spots on the floor - line up in a similar way.


Pharrel Payne (2022) and Daniel Oturu (2018). The similarities here are quite long. While Oturu is a bit longer, more agile, and was ranked higher (top 40), Payne is much stronger than Oturu was at that age and a more physical low player at that same age. As far as the similarities.
  • Both players are from the Woodbury area with Daniel being from the eastern part of Woodbury (Daniel played for Stillwater High School before transferring to CDH) and Pharrel being from the southern part that leads to him going to Park of Cottage Grove.
  • Both players are in that 6'8/6'9 range
  • Daniel was ranked as a four star player and it's expected that Pharrel Payne will have four stars in his bio when the 247 rankings are resorted in September.
  • Pharrel and Daniel are both viewed as the center pieces of their recruiting classes. Daniel had big potential and was drafted by the Clippers, Payne - who just turned 17 - also has great potential with a ceiling that is tough to measure.
  • Both are active low post defenders that have great timing on their shot contesting/shot blocking, both rebound/rebounded aggressively and with constant effort, both are/were highly productive low post players that started developing a solid face-up jumper at the same time in their careers....

See more at article link.

Ain't nothing similar about Oturu and Payne.
 




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