Ben Johnson is a Disaster



Gophers7633

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I keep seeing a lot of people say this season is all about the FR improving. If that's the case, why are Henley's MPG getting drastically cut?

First 9 games: 25 mpg
Last 9 games: 9.9 mpg

I mean he hasn't been good, at really any point, so I get it, but if we're going to lose why not play him more?
 


MennoSota

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90 percent of the posters here have no idea who Lew Alcindor is.
I'm pretty sure you had to look him up on Google. Your basketball knowledge is kindergarten level.
 



Bob_Loblaw

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Ain't nothing similar about Oturu and Payne.
There numbers aren't super dissimilar but they are just different kinds of players. One of the things to keep in mind with Oturu is that he got to play with Jordan Murphy, Coffey and McBrayer.

I think that makes a huge difference for FR, especially FR post players. Payne is playing with a group of wings who can't shoot and can't beat their man of the dribble and a post player who doesn't really help much with the dirty work.

I am a big Oturu fan but I don't know how he looks in this situation.
 

bc2211

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Will he stay as many years as Eddy? If so, then it will be 4 years after he arrives.
Evans is 7'1" with a 7'7" wingspan. He will actually run the floor much better than Eddy. I am looking forward to seeing Evans progress over the course of his time at Minnesota.
The point about Eddy is that it took time to get to where he's at this season.
Of course it will take time, we agree. I think Edey is the best comp due to shear size, but there will only be four NPOTYs while Evans is in college. Lofty bar to set on the young man.

Also, spell the man’s name correctly.
 

bc2211

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I think one of the questions about Evans is how does he fit in the rotation with Payne. they are both post players all the way. neither one can play the 4. Also have Fox (if healthy) in the mix at the 5.

the only good thing is that they won't have to worry about foul trouble. with 15 fouls to give between 3 guys, should have a decent player on the floor all the time.

hate to sound defeatist, but if the Gophers don't find a real PG somewhere, I'm not sure that Evans makes enough of a difference to matter.
For a moment I thought Bfan wrote this and I was utterly confused.
 



GopherBB12

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I wouldn’t say Ben Johnson is a “disaster”. I will say he is in over his heard. He deserves a large chunk of the blame but I’m firmly in the belief that the University deserves the larger majority of the blame. They hired him. But what has this University done in their hiring processes to make you think they’d actually hire a “coach”? Truly. Look at the history. It’s been since the 90’s that they’ve had a competent coach that “consistently” has our beloved team prepared to play each and every game. They need to cut the crap and “PAY” for a proven coach. The University has the money to do it. They aren’t fooling anyone. We are in one of the best conferences in the nation. It shouldn’t be hard to get a guy here. Will they over pay? Yes. Will they have players that won’t pan out? Yes. Will we miss out on top in-state recruits? Sure. But will we see a gopher team come into a game looking like they should be regulated to a lower conference? HELL NO.

Hire a person who has a track recorded of winning/recruiting/developing. I know it’s easy for me to sit on my couch and type this out, but money tends to do crazy things to people. Even ones who have it made sitting in a comfortable position with not real reason to look for something “better”. It’s human nature. People have always and will always look to level up in some odd way, shape, or form. Till this happens we will consistently get the same results which include a couple of NCAA Tournament appearances.

Everyone do themselves a favor and take a deep breath. Don’t let this program be the reason you have a bad day. If it’s frustrating, please do yourself and others who genuinely enjoy your company favor and put the University sporting teams on the back burner . Focus on the positives in life and let the negatives flow with the wind.

Love this forum and all that contribute!
 


bga1

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There numbers aren't super dissimilar but they are just different kinds of players. One of the things to keep in mind with Oturu is that he got to play with Jordan Murphy, Coffey and McBrayer.

I think that makes a huge difference for FR, especially FR post players. Payne is playing with a group of wings who can't shoot and can't beat their man of the dribble and a post player who doesn't really help much with the dirty work.

I am a big Oturu fan but I don't know how he looks in this situation.
This is correct. Pitino played Oturu near the basket until he was a sophomore with better surrounding players- as you note. Payne suffers from this offense. People remember the Sophomore Oturu who could shoot jumpers, but he didn't do much of that as a frosh. I'd say Payne is behind Oturu but not by a ton.
 

PhiloVance

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90 percent of the posters here have no idea who Lew Alcindor is.
He retired as a Milwaukee Buck. His alter ego later played for the Lakers as Kareem Abdul- Jabbar. Right.
 



Bayfieldgopher

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This is correct. Pitino played Oturu near the basket until he was a sophomore with better surrounding players- as you note. Payne suffers from this offense. People remember the Sophomore Oturu who could shoot jumpers, but he didn't do much of that as a frosh. I'd say Payne is behind Oturu but not by a ton.
Exactly. PP needs to stay in the paint. Ben has him like fitting a square peg into a round hole. Ben must develop an offense that will feature Evans and PP/Garcia on the floor, at the same time, as well as using Battles skills.

Can we use Painter as an offensive consultant?
 


Formerswish

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How many minutes a game do you forecast for evans next year?
Fans see him as a huge impact kid immediately. I'm not so sure.
Impossible to say, but if things work out it would nice to see him at 25 min or more. They'll have to work out their rotations next year, because you can't have too many non-shooters on the floor. A bit more interior defense will help this team, and it needs all the help it can get right now.
 

MennoSota

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Of course it will take time, we agree. I think Edey is the best comp due to shear size, but there will only be four NPOTYs while Evans is in college. Lofty bar to set on the young man.

Also, spell the man’s name correctly.
Again, I don't care about the correct spelling. Y'all know who I am talking about.

My point is that Evans will be a big difference maker if he stays all four years
 


Bob_Loblaw

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Exactly. PP needs to stay in the paint. Ben has him like fitting a square peg into a round hole. Ben must develop an offense that will feature Evans and PP/Garcia on the floor, at the same time, as well as using Battles skills.

Can we use Painter as an offensive consultant?
I don't disagree with you but part of this is because we don't have any wings. They are not a shooting threat and they are absolutely no threat to beat someone off the dribble. It's really hard for big guys to work in a PNR or high-low with no help from the wings.

It kind of reminds me of an NFL offense without anything at the WR position. You can press on defense, you can blitz, you can anything you want because there is zero threat someone will beat you deep.

Payne has a long way to go (as do Cooper and Garcia), but I really believe they would look like different players if we even had mediocre wings.
 


Crappie

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Again, I don't care about the correct spelling. Y'all know who I am talking about.

My point is that Evans will be a big difference maker if he stays all four years
Changed the narrative.......
 


short ornery norwegian

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as to what to expect from Evans -

with his frame, he needs to add weight and muscle. and I suspect that, like most young big men, his offensive moves will need work. it's not like HS where you can just dunk over some 6'7" kid trying to guard you.

so, I would expect his biggest contributions to come on defense. protect the rim - alter or block shots - and grab rebounds. whatever offense he provides is a plus, at least for the first year.
 

bga1

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as to what to expect from Evans -

with his frame, he needs to add weight and muscle. and I suspect that, like most young big men, his offensive moves will need work. it's not like HS where you can just dunk over some 6'7" kid trying to guard you.

so, I would expect his biggest contributions to come on defense. protect the rim - alter or block shots - and grab rebounds. whatever offense he provides is a plus, at least for the first year.
Yep. The IDEAL scenario is that Payne becomes a good shooter from 15 feet or less and can also learn to dribble drive like Oturu did in year 2. If that happens he can play the 5 when Evans inevitably gets in foul trouble and perhaps 10-15 minutes along side him at the 4. That's idea and it would depend on development by Payne in addition to that muscle we need on Evans. Opposing teams would have to think twice about driving the lane against that duo.
 

Formerswish

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I wouldn’t say Ben Johnson is a “disaster”. I will say he is in over his heard. He deserves a large chunk of the blame but I’m firmly in the belief that the University deserves the larger majority of the blame. They hired him. But what has this University done in their hiring processes to make you think they’d actually hire a “coach”? Truly. Look at the history. It’s been since the 90’s that they’ve had a competent coach that “consistently” has our beloved team prepared to play each and every game. They need to cut the crap and “PAY” for a proven coach. The University has the money to do it. They aren’t fooling anyone. We are in one of the best conferences in the nation. It shouldn’t be hard to get a guy here. Will they over pay? Yes. Will they have players that won’t pan out? Yes. Will we miss out on top in-state recruits? Sure. But will we see a gopher team come into a game looking like they should be regulated to a lower conference? HELL NO.

Hire a person who has a track recorded of winning/recruiting/developing. I know it’s easy for me to sit on my couch and type this out, but money tends to do crazy things to people. Even ones who have it made sitting in a comfortable position with not real reason to look for something “better”. It’s human nature. People have always and will always look to level up in some odd way, shape, or form. Till this happens we will consistently get the same results which include a couple of NCAA Tournament appearances.

Everyone do themselves a favor and take a deep breath. Don’t let this program be the reason you have a bad day. If it’s frustrating, please do yourself and others who genuinely enjoy your company favor and put the University sporting teams on the back burner . Focus on the positives in life and let the negatives flow with the wind.

Love this forum and all that contribute!
I couldn't agree more with your last paragraph. It's hard to see your team wallowing in last place. But I also disagree with the notion that Johnson is in over his head. I certainly don't have tangible evidence to support that right now, but I believe the guy can recruit, which is the lifeblood of any program. And the combination of Evans, Christie, a transfer portal guard, possible depth help from Ihnen and Fox, and the improvement of the current players may get them towards the middle of the pack of the Big Ten next year. That isn't fantasy, it's quite possible.

Lots of improvement needs to happen next year, but people tend to forget it is still his 2nd year, and his first year didn't start out with a perfect recruiting scenario. So I would say it would be great if everyone took a deep breath about this team, it's human nature to blame the coach. Sometimes it takes time. The circumstances haven't been great (arrived very late for recruiting the first year, injuries to key players, etc. Sure, excuses, excuses, "Johnson apologist". Let's see where they end up after next years season. Give the guy a chance..
 


forever a gopher

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This team has few shooters, no "slashers", has poor team speed, is literally the worst FT shooting team in the country, and for some reason plays Payne 18' from the basket. Not sure what's going on with this team.

At least the effort against Michigan was good. That was good to see. That's pretty much my only expectation at this point - I want to see them play hard. Apparently that's worth however many millions CBJ is earning.
 

VanillaThunder

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This team has few shooters, no "slashers", has poor team speed, is literally the worst FT shooting team in the country, and for some reason plays Payne 18' from the basket. Not sure what's going on with this team.

At least the effort against Michigan was good. That was good to see. That's pretty much my only expectation at this point - I want to see them play hard. Apparently that's worth however many millions CBJ is earning.
I certainly hope next season Ben will position Evans differently than Payne on offense, although for last 2 seasons he has an Evans-sized TT only float around the perimeter instead of posting up inside to make use of his height for offensive rebounding, if nothing else.
 

Formerswish

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I certainly hope next season Ben will position Evans differently than Payne on offense, although for last 2 seasons he has an Evans-sized TT only float around the perimeter instead of posting up inside to make use of his height for offensive rebounding, if nothing else.
I expect Evans will be positioned differently than Payne is this year, although there are some advantages of having your "big" positioned at the top of the key. Payne does set very good screens for cutters, he's strong with the ball and he is a pretty good passer, but his unwillingness (or orders) to shoot don't help much when his guy sags under the basket. In terms of TT, he does not have any big man skills, is a very poor rebounder for his size, and doesn't block out. Those things eliminate any chance he'll play much.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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I expect Evans will be positioned differently than Payne is this year, although there are some advantages of having your "big" positioned at the top of the key. Payne does set very good screens for cutters, he's strong with the ball and he is a pretty good passer, but his unwillingness (or orders) to shoot don't help much when his guy sags under the basket. In terms of TT, he does not have any big man skills, is a very poor rebounder for his size, and doesn't block out. Those things eliminate any chance he'll play much.
Agree on TT, he is not a post player. He is a perimeter player in a 7 footer's frame.
 




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