Ben Johnson is a Disaster

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Gophers7633 said:
Ain't nothing similar about Oturu and Payne.
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I'm guessing you could count the number of baskets Oturu scored more than five feet away from the basket his freshman year on one hand, his offense was very limited.
 


"I couldn't agree more with your last paragraph. It's hard to see your team wallowing in last place. But I also disagree with the notion that Johnson is in over his head. I certainly don't have tangible evidence to support that right now, but I believe the guy can recruit, which is the lifeblood of any program. And the combination of Evans, Christie, a transfer portal guard, possible depth help from Ihnen and Fox, and the improvement of the current players may get them towards the middle of the pack of the Big Ten next year. That isn't fantasy, it's quite possible."

GHers, please stop with the Ihnen and Fox hopes. A similar athlete with mutiple leg injuries over mutiple seasons (Curry) was maybe servicable on a bad Gophers team AFTER coming back from those injuries. Curry was higher rated than Fox and somewhat equal to Ihnen coming to MN. If you think Fox and Ihnen will be effective and play MAJOR (20+/gm) minutes for a top of the big ten Gophers, you are dreaming. My guess is that if those 2 gentlemen are getting top 5 playing time on a Gophers team, said Gophers team will be bottom 4 in the BIG. My 2 cents. I wish those 2 players the best. But, I believe their basketball futures are limited at best. I'm hoping that with the incoming class (Christie/Evans and hopefully a PG) we will soon forget about and say goodbye to Ihnen and Fox.
 


Big Dawg said:
"I couldn't agree more with your last paragraph. It's hard to see your team wallowing in last place. But I also disagree with the notion that Johnson is in over his head. I certainly don't have tangible evidence to support that right now, but I believe the guy can recruit, which is the lifeblood of any program. And the combination of Evans, Christie, a transfer portal guard, possible depth help from Ihnen and Fox, and the improvement of the current players may get them towards the middle of the pack of the Big Ten next year. That isn't fantasy, it's quite possible."

GHers, please stop with the Ihnen and Fox hopes. A similar athlete with mutiple leg injuries over mutiple seasons (Curry) was maybe servicable on a bad Gophers team AFTER coming back from those injuries. Curry was higher rated than Fox and somewhat equal to Ihnen coming to MN. If you think Fox and Ihnen will be effective and play MAJOR (20+/gm) minutes for a top of the big ten Gophers, you are dreaming. My guess is that if those 2 gentlemen are getting top 5 playing time on a Gophers team, said Gophers team will be bottom 4 in the BIG. My 2 cents. I wish those 2 players the best. But, I believe their basketball futures are limited at best. I'm hoping that with the incoming class (Christie/Evans and hopefully a PG) we will soon forget about and say goodbye to Ihnen and Fox.
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There are multiple examples of players coming back from ACL knee injuries, neither you or anyone else knows how they will respond. Curry, by the way, had 4 major injuries, including tearing the ACL, MCL, and meniscus in his knee one time and had 2 other knee surgeries-not a good comparison. These are two players who would provide depth, something we don't have a lot of right now. I'm not seeing them as starters or "playing major minutes, and not top five playing time", but front line depth. I understand how it's possible they may have some limitations, but you may be inventing something that wasn't in my post.
 


Formerswish said:
I couldn't agree more with your last paragraph. It's hard to see your team wallowing in last place. But I also disagree with the notion that Johnson is in over his head. I certainly don't have tangible evidence to support that right now, but I believe the guy can recruit, which is the lifeblood of any program. And the combination of Evans, Christie, a transfer portal guard, possible depth help from Ihnen and Fox, and the improvement of the current players may get them towards the middle of the pack of the Big Ten next year. That isn't fantasy, it's quite possible.

Lots of improvement needs to happen next year, but people tend to forget it is still his 2nd year, and his first year didn't start out with a perfect recruiting scenario. So I would say it would be great if everyone took a deep breath about this team, it's human nature to blame the coach. Sometimes it takes time. The circumstances haven't been great (arrived very late for recruiting the first year, injuries to key players, etc. Sure, excuses, excuses, "Johnson apologist". Let's see where they end up after next years season. Give the guy a chance..
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Amen, brother. You can't pull a load if you don't have the horses. Johnson's trying to build a program the right way and that will take more than 2 or 3 seasons! Word gets around, Evans won't be the last great recruit!
 

TheMoosebird said:
Amen, brother. You can't pull a load if you don't have the horses. Johnson's trying to build a program the right way and that will take more than 2 or 3 seasons! Word gets around, Evans won't be the last great recruit!
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Agreed. No wins til 2027 and keep opponents off balance by disguising your offensive design goals. Chess.
 





short ornery norwegian said:
in the end, if Johnson finds a way to win, most of us will be happy.

if Johnson doesn't find a way to win, he'll be fired, and some of us will be happy. and a few people will be very happy.
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Firing the coach always stinks all the way around. They properly fired Pitino. For the pleasure of doing that we got another 3 years of wandering in the wilderness. The new era of life in the portal and NIL is brutal. If you are going to fire a coach for anything other than cause- go BIG or don't bother. This is pro sports without a draft.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
in the end, if Johnson finds a way to win, most of us will be happy.

if Johnson doesn't find a way to win, he'll be fired, and some of us will be happy. and a few people will be very happy.
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I don't think CBJ is the guy, but to say I'd be happy he is fired isn't correct either. That means we have failed for another 3-5 years, and that is not something I can be happy about.
 

bga1 said:
Firing the coach always stinks all the way around. They properly fired Pitino. For the pleasure of doing that we got another 3 years of wandering in the wilderness. The new era of life in the portal and NIL is brutal. If you are going to fire a coach for anything other than cause- go BIG or don't bother. This is pro sports without a draft.
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Thats also part of why you cant wait 7 years anymore like with the last coach.

Teams can reload quickly and efficiently. There is no ability to use the excuse "just wait til next recruiting class are upper classmen". There is no telling who sticks around and no time to wait.
 

Formerswish said:
There are multiple examples of players coming back from ACL knee injuries, neither you or anyone else knows how they will respond. (Agree) Curry, by the way, had 4 major injuries, including tearing the ACL, MCL, and meniscus in his knee one time and had 2 other knee surgeries-not a good comparison. These are two players who would provide depth, something we don't have a lot of right now. I'm not seeing them as starters or "playing major minutes, and not top five playing time", but front line depth. I understand how it's possible they may have some limitations, but you may be inventing something that wasn't in my post.
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I'm assuming you are not a medical pro nor am I. Ihnen blew out the same knee twice. Wasn't extremely impressive before getting hurt. Fox has blown out both knees. The mutiple example you refer to above are the exception, not the rule. Most teams in D1 basketball play 7-8 players with the rest getting a few garbage minutes here and there. In my opinion Ihnen and Fox will never be one of those top 8. The positions they would play (Ihnen-2?,3,4,5)(Fox-4-5) are deep with the 2023-2024 Gophers roster. Evans, Payne, Garcia, Battle, Ola Joseph, Henley and Betts (and TT) currently paly those positions. In your opinion, where do you see Ihnen and Fox (if both healthy) getting minutes next season? I do admire thier drive to recover from those injuries/surgeries.
 



UW GB just fired their coach after 2.5 seasons. They were 2-19 this year.

For those that say you have to give a coach 4-5 years, sorry that is no longer the case.
 

Big Dawg said:
I'm assuming you are not a medical pro nor am I. Ihnen blew out the same knee twice. Wasn't extremely impressive before getting hurt. Fox has blown out both knees. The mutiple example you refer to above are the exception, not the rule. Most teams in D1 basketball play 7-8 players with the rest getting a few garbage minutes here and there. In my opinion Ihnen and Fox will never be one of those top 8. The positions they would play (Ihnen-2?,3,4,5)(Fox-4-5) are deep with the 2023-2024 Gophers roster. Evans, Payne, Garcia, Battle, Ola Joseph, Henley and Betts (and TT) currently paly those positions. In your opinion, where do you see Ihnen and Fox (if both healthy) getting minutes next season? I do admire thier drive to recover from those injuries/surgeries.
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I think it's fair to say that anything Ihnen and Fox contribute next year needs to be icing on the cake. There's no way you can rely on it when planning the roster.
 

howeda7 said:
I think it's fair to say that anything Ihnen and Fox contribute next year needs to be icing on the cake. There's no way you can rely on it when planning the roster.
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Not really sure how you could count in Ihnen even before this year. A guy who has been here who has never contributed.
At least Fox wasn’t a known non contributor
 

Some guy said:
Not really sure how you could count in Ihnen even before this year. A guy who has been here who has never contributed.
At least Fox wasn’t a known non contributor
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He contributed at the D2 level. Doesn't mean it will translate against better athletes.
 

MonikerSchmoniker45 said:
He contributed at the D2 level. Doesn't mean it will translate against better athletes.
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Correct. But at least he wasn’t a known non-contributor

I have no idea on him.
The other guy there is evidence to say he won’t be a contributor
 

Big Dawg said:
I'm assuming you are not a medical pro nor am I. Ihnen blew out the same knee twice. Wasn't extremely impressive before getting hurt. Fox has blown out both knees. The mutiple example you refer to above are the exception, not the rule. Most teams in D1 basketball play 7-8 players with the rest getting a few garbage minutes here and there. In my opinion Ihnen and Fox will never be one of those top 8. The positions they would play (Ihnen-2?,3,4,5)(Fox-4-5) are deep with the 2023-2024 Gophers roster. Evans, Payne, Garcia, Battle, Ola Joseph, Henley and Betts (and TT) currently paly those positions. In your opinion, where do you see Ihnen and Fox (if both healthy) getting minutes next season? I do admire thier drive to recover from those injuries/surgeries.
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Good question. I am not a medical pro, and while I think we both agree there is no way to know how these two respond to another surgery, assuming they both recover fairly well, I would see Ihnen getting some time. And I base that on hearing from Gopher practices before this season that he was the best defender they had, and the guy can defend 2-5 if needed. That is really helpful and pretty rare. And people will come up with 3 pt percentages he had when he played, but he does have 3pt range and some offensive skills, along with a huge wingspan. I am less certain about Fox getting a decent amount of minutes especially since JOJ is the same kind of athletic, springy, energy guy that Fox is, but may even have a better shot than Fox. It is harder to say with Fox, because of the caliber he's played against. But he is a great athlete and works his ass off, and there is often a place for those guys if they can defend and rebound. I agree it's going to be crowded, but injuries and defections will always change things, and I'd rather have 6-8 guys of a certain caliber on the front line (I consider Henley more of a guard) than 4-6. Nor do I think TT is a threat to get minutes next year, if he's still around. This team is not real deep now, it will be much deeper next year.
 
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howeda7 said:
If he goes 4-16, 2-18, 5-15 how would recruiting not fall off? And why would Battle or Garcia come back for their final years of eligibility?
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Where else would they go? They’re a big part of why they suck.
 




Formerswish said:
Good question. I am not a medical pro, and while I think we both agree there is no way to know how these two respond to another surgery, assuming they both recover fairly well, I would see Ihnen getting some time. And I base that on hearing from Gopher practices before this season that he was the best defender they had, and the guy can defend 2-5 if needed. That is really helpful and pretty rare. And people will come up with 3 pt percentages he had when he played, but he does have 3pt range and some offensive skills, along with a huge wingspan. I am less certain about Fox getting a decent amount of minutes especially since JOJ is the same kind of athletic, springy, energy guy that Fox is, but may even have a better shot than Fox. It is harder to say with Fox, because of the caliber he's played against. But he is a great athlete and works his ass off, and there is often a place for those guys if they can defend and rebound. I agree it's going to be crowded, but injuries and defections will always change things, and I'd rather have 6-8 guys of a certain caliber on the front line (I consider Henley more of a guard) than 4-6. Nor do I think TT is a threat to get minutes next year, if he's still around. This team is not real deep now, it will be much deeper next year.
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Didn't Tubby sub 5 at a time? Kinda like using a second team. Assuming the talent level is actually there for that option; 25/15 minute split per group. Ten guys contributing. And that would give the other coach a lot of things to defend against. Just rambling here
 

howeda7 said:
They would both have many offers to transfer. Don't kid yourself. Or go play overseas.
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If they want to go for their last year and play 10 minutes a game on a better team so be it. Hasn’t Garcia already transferred twice?
 

MonikerSchmoniker45 said:
He contributed at the D2 level. Doesn't mean it will translate against better athletes.
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He was a D2 all American. That’s a little more than contributing. Also his athleticism was his strength. It’s not unreasonable to think he would’ve been an above average defender and rebounder. His offensive stats would’ve taken a hit, but he had like 25-30 D1 offers including ones from Ohio State and Creighton. He was a hot commodity for a reason
 

howeda7 said:
They would both have many offers to transfer. Don't kid yourself. Or go play overseas.
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I have good knowledge on this one. Garcia very likely will be back. Would take an incredible offer overseas to get him to go. He won’t play at another college. Battle won’t go to another college either. Year older though and more likely to try and go make some money if no NIL here
 

Gopherfan84 said:
He was a D2 all American. That’s a little more than contributing. Also his athleticism was his strength. It’s not unreasonable to think he would’ve been an above average defender and rebounder. His offensive stats would’ve taken a hit, but he had like 25-30 D1 offers including ones from Ohio State and Creighton. He was a hot commodity for a reason
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I meant contribute post injury. Pre injury I agree he would have been a force, but he's got no knees now. I don't see how he doesn't lose a step or two.
 

GopherLaundry2013 said:
It is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE for this team to not have situational awareness at the end of the game. Down 2 with 20 seconds left and you take 12 seconds to foul? They literally had taken a timeout before the inbounds play.
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The only thing I can think is that Indiana burned their final timeout prior to the inbounds (it wasn’t MN…it was when the Hoosier player dove for the loose ball). So…I think CBJ’s tactic was get a trap since they have no timeouts. See if we can utilize the backcourt violation. It was a gamble, and he lost…but not his worst gamble. What made it bad is when it was clear they were getting across half court, they were slow to foul
 
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