Ben Johnson is a Disaster

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Bfan said:
Ben Johnson has delivered a rare and amazing feat.

Dennis Evans is the real deal.

Ben Johnson is entering the realm of Gopher greats.

Meanwhile, the gaslighters cry, "This program could have been Duke or ISU had Johnson not ruined it. Look at this sacred history of greatness at Minnesota that Johnson has ruined!"

This Minnesota program for decades has been horrible at recruiting and frankly bad. Clem was great but otherwise Johnson has WAY surpassed Gophers past history.

This program had a crap hand and now it has a strong hand.

This is unfolding in the next couple years. Don't let the gaslighters tell you again and again that this program has no future -- the ones who refuse to give credit where credit is due.

Johnson has delivered the goods like almost never before.

Only one former prospect tops Evans, Kris Humphries of Minnesota, and Evans may yet surpass him.



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Do you mind if I ask you a personal question? Where in the world did you find such wonderful PCP? It sure has put you into a different orbit than most here on the ground. My Goodness!!!!
 

Bfan said:
Ben Johnson has delivered a rare and amazing feat.

Dennis Evans is the real deal.

Ben Johnson is entering the realm of Gopher greats.

Meanwhile, the gaslighters cry, "This program could have been Duke or ISU had Johnson not ruined it. Look at this sacred history of greatness at Minnesota that Johnson has ruined!"

This Minnesota program for decades has been horrible at recruiting and frankly bad. Clem was great but otherwise Johnson has WAY surpassed Gophers past history.

This program had a crap hand and now it has a strong hand.

This is unfolding in the next couple years. Don't let the gaslighters tell you again and again that this program has no future -- the ones who refuse to give credit where credit is due.

Johnson has delivered the goods like almost never before.

Only one former prospect tops Evans, Kris Humphries of Minnesota, and Evans may yet surpass him.



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This bit is officially admitted to the Gopherhole drinking game bingo card.

For those playing at home pleas swap out Jan Ganglehoff for Bfan drops Dennis Evans.
 

Is Evans coming for sure? I hear that it is still 60/40 that he turns pro (daughter’s boyfriends neighbor).
 

Jack jones said:
Is Evans coming for sure? I hear that it is still 60/40 that he turns pro (daughter’s boyfriends neighbor).
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Seems like an odd decision for him to go to the Gophers, but we'll see. I sure as hell hope so, he clearly is very talented. Maybe if Evans does not end up playing for the Gophers, Bfan and MNjay banned from posting here again?
 

Bfan said:
Ben Johnson: " Alright guys (to the freshmen), you have to do a better job at what we are working on. Now let's practice that again. I know it takes reps but you just can't __________________. "

The complainer fans at GopherHole: "Why aren't they playing amazing? Johnson can't coach! This program has no future."

To the complainers, it's coach Johnson's fault that the coaches scream at Carrington to stay on his man on the inbound but the freshman kid is doing his best and didn't do it. It takes time.

It's coach Johnson's fault that athletic performance is an incremental improvement game and will take time for these freshmen to do what they want to do but just can't.

It's coach Johnson's fault that Jamison Battle is really a transfer from George Washington, hot and cold.

There is a clear path forward to a great future. It will take time. It is not coach Johnson's fault that the team is not there yet.

When the time comes, then call for his head if he doesn't deliver. We are not there yet.

I will say they should be able to make the NCAA Tournament next year.

And I am thankful Dennis Evans is coming.

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Look I’m in the lets be a little patient aisle with you but you are off your rocker at the moment. I like Dennis but he’s young and has a long ways to go developmentally. Like others say this team is poorly constructed at the moment. I think it can be fixed but Ben better find some PGs, either in the portal or as a really outstanding freshman. People on here have it called correctly at the moment, Ben looks in over his head. I’m still in the patient aisle but there needs to be improvement shown, and shown soon I think.
 


Bfan said:
Ben Johnson: " Alright guys (to the freshmen), you have to do a better job at what we are working on. Now let's practice that again. I know it takes reps but you just can't __________________. "

The complainer fans at GopherHole: "Why aren't they playing amazing? Johnson can't coach! This program has no future."

To the complainers, it's coach Johnson's fault that the coaches scream at Carrington to stay on his man on the inbound but the freshman kid is doing his best and didn't do it. It takes time.

It's coach Johnson's fault that athletic performance is an incremental improvement game and will take time for these freshmen to do what they want to do but just can't.

It's coach Johnson's fault that Jamison Battle is really a transfer from George Washington, hot and cold.

There is a clear path forward to a great future. It will take time. It is not coach Johnson's fault that the team is not there yet.

When the time comes, then call for his head if he doesn't deliver. We are not there yet.

I will say they should be able to make the NCAA Tournament next year.

And I am thankful Dennis Evans is coming.

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Nobody that I can see is calling for his head now. He will get a minimum of 5 years. That's reality.

The situation is that he needs to start learning and fast. Right now he is recruiting bodies just fine. If he doesn't start winning- that goes away in a hurry. He needs to show improvement, serious improvement in the latter half of this season. These home losses are bad at an epic level. Purdue could have stomped us by 35 had they not called the dogs off. This is really about as bad at roster construction as you can get. There is enough players with talent here to compete- they are just in the wrong places. We would be in pretty good shape right now with a front line of Battle, Garcia and Payne if we had any guards.

The 2024 class will be in the hopper before any fall 2023 games, so next year won't help that class, only this year can do that. I am willing to hold out hope that Ben's coaching will be okay with the right guards in place- but that is only hope at the moment since we cannot see it.
 

bga1 said:
Nobody that I can see is calling for his head now. He will get a minimum of 5 years. That's reality.

The situation is that he needs to start learning and fast. Right now he is recruiting bodies just fine. If he doesn't start winning- that goes away in a hurry. He needs to show improvement, serious improvement in the latter half of this season. These home losses are bad at an epic level. Purdue could have stomped us by 35 had they not called the dogs off. This is really about as bad at roster construction as you can get. There is enough players with talent here to compete- they are just in the wrong places. We would be in pretty good shape right now with a front line of Battle, Garcia and Payne if we had any guards.

The 2024 class will be in the hopper before any fall 2023 games, so next year won't help that class, only this year can do that. I am willing to hold out hope that Ben's coaching will be okay with the right guards in place- but that is only hope at the moment since we cannot see it.
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5 years? Ben's not getting 5 years unless there is significant improvement the remainder of this season and next season. Brewster didn't even get 4 years after going to bowl games in years 2 and 3.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
5 years? Ben's not getting 5 years unless there is significant improvement the remainder of this season and next season. Brewster didn't even get 4 years after going to bowl games in years 2 and 3.
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You think Gabel is going to allow a firing after 3, or even 4 years? No chance. And personally I think he has to get 4-5 years. They hired another learn on the job guy. That was their plan. So we are going to have to let him learn the hard way- on the job.
 



bga1 said:
You think Gabel is going to allow a firing after 3, or even 4 years? No chance. And personally I think he has to get 4-5 years. They hired another learn on the job guy. That was their plan. So we are going to have to let him learn the hard way- on the job.
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Agree, 4 years at least.
 

bc2211 said:
Sure, he’s the highest ranked recruit in eons, which is great. No one is arguing that, but it takes more than a single player. And honestly, Oturu was as dominant and efficient offensively and defensively as almost anyone in the country outside of Garza his sophomore year, but we didn’t amount to anything with him because of other roster construction flaws like the ones we are currently witnessing. If we get Oturu level PER and +/- out of Evans, I think we should be very content.

Ultimately, he was so good that he left after two years leaving a huge void in our roster for the following year (good decision for him, we just had nothing in the bullpen).

PS if you say Dennis’s name one more time, he’ll appear in a mirror for you.
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The Oturo sophomore roster construction included Marcus Carr, Peyton Willis, and Gabe K. at the wings. Those are starters on ranked teams or honorable all conference players. That was the year I finally and officially gave up on Pitino being successful here.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
5 years? Ben's not getting 5 years unless there is significant improvement the remainder of this season and next season. Brewster didn't even get 4 years after going to bowl games in years 2 and 3.
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Brewsters firing was more than just losing football games. Not a relevant comp unless Ben’s teams fall apart academically, have some legal issues, and actually win some more and then fall apart ;).
 

bga1 said:
You think Gabel is going to allow a firing after 3, or even 4 years? No chance. And personally I think he has to get 4-5 years. They hired another learn on the job guy. That was their plan. So we are going to have to let him learn the hard way- on the job.
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Taking this down a rabbit hole on Gabel, how much hot water is she in for accepting big money to be on the Securian board of directors?

Does she have that many years left?

https://www.kare11.com/amp/article/...ition/89-c6401820-8ce3-4ff2-9ab8-e30ececd1810
 



I hope they can him after next year if there is not significant improvement. You just can't let things stay this bad.

BTW, I hope Evans and Christie help turn things around, but he still needs to bring in better guards via the transfer portal as no more scholarships are available right now.

I think Evans will help a lot defensively but he's still very raw offensively. Hope I'm wrong, but I have a hunch he's not going to make anyone forget Kevin McHale or Michael Thompson.
 

bga1 said:
You think Gabel is going to allow a firing after 3, or even 4 years? No chance. And personally I think he has to get 4-5 years. They hired another learn on the job guy. That was their plan. So we are going to have to let him learn the hard way- on the job.
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There is plenty of precedence for firing a basketball coach after 3 years. There's a difference between allowing someone to continue to learn on the job who's showing competence and progress, and letting go of someone who's completely incompetent and losing at historical levels.

If Ben doesn't show improvement soon, he will fall into the latter category. Thursday's game was an embarrassment on national TV. Basketball still generates the 2nd most revenue for the U by a lot over mens hockey which is 3rd. That still matters.
 




GopherWeatherGuy said:
There is plenty of precedence for firing a basketball coach after 3 years. There's a difference between allowing someone to continue to learn on the job who's showing competence and progress, and letting go of someone who's completely incompetent and losing at historical levels.

If Ben doesn't show improvement soon, he will fall into the latter category. Thursday's game was an embarrassment on national TV. Basketball still generates the 2nd most revenue for the U by a lot over mens hockey which is 3rd. That still matters.
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That precedent for firing includes more than just losing games unless it’s a blue blood. Very rare and hardly any precedent anyone gets fired for just losing in 3 years especially at a program of our level.
 

bga1 said:
Nobody that I can see is calling for his head now. He will get a minimum of 5 years. That's reality.

The situation is that he needs to start learning and fast. Right now he is recruiting bodies just fine. If he doesn't start winning- that goes away in a hurry. He needs to show improvement, serious improvement in the latter half of this season. These home losses are bad at an epic level. Purdue could have stomped us by 35 had they not called the dogs off. This is really about as bad at roster construction as you can get. There is enough players with talent here to compete- they are just in the wrong places. We would be in pretty good shape right now with a front line of Battle, Garcia and Payne if we had any guards.

The 2024 class will be in the hopper before any fall 2023 games, so next year won't help that class, only this year can do that. I am willing to hold out hope that Ben's coaching will be okay with the right guards in place- but that is only hope at the moment since we cannot see it.
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$$ talks. The attendance is absolutely brutal and the St Thomas move might actually push them not to be complacent. The program is at an all time low. To just let it sit there for 2-3 more years defies logic. He gets next year, but if there isn't significant improvement you have to move on.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Yep, barring an off the court scandal or a winless 2023-24 Big Ten season, as long as Gabel is still here there is no chance Ben is getting less than 4. But at the current pace he'll need that Year 4 to be a dang good one.
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I’d argue that it’s not even Gabel. 99% of College presidents wouldn’t do it. Not saying it’s right or wrong, but just a fact with where and who we are. Ain’t happening
 

Gopherfan84 said:
That precedent for firing includes more than just losing games unless it’s a blue blood. Very rare and hardly any precedent anyone gets fired for just losing in 3 years especially at a program of our level.
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Didn't Pitt fire Kevin Stallings after one year? There are certainly tons of examples after 3.
 

Gopherfan84 said:
I’d argue that it’s not even Gabel. 99% of College presidents wouldn’t do it. Not saying it’s right or wrong, but just a fact with where and who we are. Ain’t happening
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I think Gabel's influence is being exaggerated here. Yes, she might have tipped the scale on choosing him, that doesn't mean she's going to nueter the AD and force him to keep Ben if he's losing at historical levels.

This program is at such a low point that there's little to no need to worry about media or political optics of a coaching change. No one cares. Which is exactly the problem.
 

howeda7 said:
Didn't Pitt fire Kevin Stallings after one year? There are certainly tons of examples after 3.
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Stallings got fired because he was cheating and Pitt got hit from the NCAA. There are examples of coaches being fired at 3, but it’s always more than just losing unless it’s a blue blood.
 

Gopherfan84 said:
That precedent for firing includes more than just losing games unless it’s a blue blood. Very rare and hardly any precedent anyone gets fired for just losing in 3 years especially at a program of our level.
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There are very few examples of coaches being this bad at this level. Todd Lickliter only coached 3, and he was still better at Iowa than Johnson has been so far here. Ray Giacoletti only made it 3 at Utah and he made the NCAA tourney in year 1. Jim Boylen was his replacement and only made it 4 years despite going to the NCAA tourney in year 2. Kevin Stallings only lasted 2 years at Pitt. Rick Ray only made it 3 years at Mississippi St.

Those are just a few off the top of my head at comparable programs, and none of them had the luxury that is the transfer portal we have today.
 

Gopherfan84 said:
Stallings got fired because he was cheating and Pitt got hit from the NCAA. There are examples of coaches being fired at 3, but it’s always more than just losing unless it’s a blue blood.
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Is it ever "just" losing? There are plenty of examples after 3 years that don't involve cheating or NCAA sanctions.
 

Gopherfan84 said:
The Oturo sophomore roster construction included Marcus Carr, Peyton Willis, and Gabe K. at the wings. Those are starters on ranked teams or honorable all conference players. That was the year I finally and officially gave up on Pitino being successful here.
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Same. Although Willis was no where near the player he was in his second stint so I wouldn’t exactly lump him with the other three. Gabe also still had the green light and he used it, unfortunately. No one else on the roster seemed to have a defined role and/or strength. Teams would just attack our 4th or 5th guy in the line up (e.g. omersa) with much success.

If Coffey stayed and was on that team, much different story. Similarly, if Oturu stays for another year I think things could have gone much differently for Pitino. I think Oturu leaving was the beginning of the end - admin just had to find the right opportunity contractually.
 

I think its impossible to say today anything is a "sure thing" with this program. I'd agree 4 seems likely but if we went say 3-37 in B1G play and we are still in the 3500 attendance range you can't possibly keep him.

My concern is on our trajectory it will turn into apathy where going 4-16 in conference in acceptable.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
There are very few examples of coaches being this bad at this level. Todd Lickliter only coached 3, and he was still better at Iowa than Johnson has been so far here. Ray Giacoletti only made it 3 at Utah and he made the NCAA tourney in year 1. Jim Boylen was his replacement and only made it 4 years despite going to the NCAA tourney in year 2. Kevin Stallings only lasted 2 years at Pitt. Rick Ray only made it 3 years at Mississippi St.

Those are just a few off the top of my head at comparable programs, and none of them had the luxury that is the transfer portal we have today.
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Licklighter fought with admin and had multiple player defections and complaints. He wore everybody including boosters thin. I think you’re probably spot on about Giacolletti. He followed Majereus and Utahs best run ever but I don’t think he had any issues but losing. Ray is a fair example too. Miss State got ripped hard for firing Ray and they are in the SEC. We’d get crucified for doing it here even worse (whether it’s justified or not).
Stallings isn’t comparable at all. NCAA scandals and program was a mess off the court.
Ben’s on court product is bad right now, but it’s very clean everywhere else.
 

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