Ben Johnson is a Disaster

[golfing18now]

This firing talk is way premature. Not that we're in a decision-making capacity, but we have to let this play out and see where it goes. Some really, really good talent coming in next year, and it would be a shame to not see that through and give this staff a chance to work with the nice class they recruited.

Agree completely. I would be shocked if he doesn't get three years minimum. Bad guard play, poor shot selection, and soft defense is a tough combination to overcome. At some point, you hope to see some improvement in these areas even if it doesn't translate to a markedly better win percentage. He doesn't have enough horses yet to compete in the upper tier of the conference. However, the whole doesn't look as good as the sum of the parts right now. That gets to coaching. It hasn't been all that impressive for 12 calendar months.

 

[GopherBlood777]

To Chicago State's credit, they have been a horrendous team historically but have a new coach this year that has done some solid 'crootin. They start two former 4 stars. Elijah Weaver was #45, coming out of high school in 2018. Cardet Jr. was #78 in the class of 2021. That tandem kept them in the game, and they scored 60% of their points.

That said, there is no excuse for how we played today. These are supposed to be confidence builders before the big ten gauntlet starts. After this game, I am more confused about the team's identity and how we will compete against better competition.

Ben needs to shake it up with the PG play. I don't know the answer, but Cooper isn't it. Even if he averages seven assists per game, he can't consistently initiate the offense and cannot stay in front of his defensive assignment. It honestly looks like he's hurt or nursing something. Sprinting looks painful. Maybe there's more to the story?

Assuming Cooper isn't hurt, I'd rather see Henley get more minutes as the primary ball handler. While he's been horrendous this year, he has the quickness and a handle to develop. It would be ugly and beyond frustrating. I can't deny the floor of poor play would be much lower with Henley logging PG minutes.

However, I've seen the team's ceiling with Cooper playing 40 minutes, which is equally depressing. I'd go young and let Cooper bomb threes (he's 50%+ on the season) in an off-guard role and save some energy for defensive possessions. There's nothing to lose.

Largely agree but would rather have Carrington in. Henley has potential but he just isn't there yet.

 

[Wet_Blanket_Guy]

Largely agree but would rather have Carrington in. Henley has potential but he just isn't there yet.

Carrington is not a point guard...he is strictly a shooting guard. He's probably penetrated the defense 5 times this season, I wouldn't want to see him acting as the primary ball handler against pressure. Let him focus on being the best 2 guard (or small 3 this year). Ben made a colossal roster mistake by not getting speed and we do not have a fix on the current roster for it. Cooper is sadly the best fit (that or Samuels).

 

[GopherBlood777]

Carrington is not a point guard...he is strictly a shooting guard. He's probably penetrated the defense 5 times this season, I wouldn't want to see him acting as the primary ball handler against pressure. Let him focus on being the best 2 guard (or small 3 this year). Ben made a colossal roster mistake by not getting speed and we do not have a fix on the current roster for it. Cooper is sadly the best fit (that or Samuels).

I can't disagree. Cooper and Samuels are the best traditional fit at PG this season.

 

[JimmyJamesMD]

I cant believe how awful Cooper and Samuels are. We couldnt get better guard transfers than this?

 

[Bfan]

Looking at the box score today, Minnesota guards missed the bus to the game.

 

[GoldenUMNGopher]

Gophers are hitting their stride now and will soon be 2-2 in the B1G. I look forward to bumping this thread after every Gopher win and every other 2nd year coach embarrassing loss.

It's a good thing we hit our stride otherwise who knows how this game would have turned out....missed your bump on the win

 

[Holy Man]

I cant believe how awful Cooper and Samuels are. We couldnt get better guard transfers than this?

Overstated. They are both slow of foot and so struggling on defense. Cooper was one of the most sought after points in the portal last spring. Samuels is depth and needing to play more than intended. Both are at least getting more comfortable with what we’re doing even if they are a step slow for this level. Play with what you have, but he really needs to hit the portal hard for an outstanding point next season.

 

[Johnnyboy18]

It's a good thing we hit our stride otherwise who knows how this game would have turned out....missed your bump on the win

1-0 in the Chicago State championship season

 

[fan of Ray Williams]

The common sense would be to cut the losses on the poor hire before it goes another 2 or 3 years down the tracks, only to rebuild then. Eat the buyout. Heck, I would rather have Johnny Tauer (UST coach) running the Gopher Program. He was the head coach of MN Heat (AAU program) for years, which means local AAU ties *which is one of the main reasons Ben was hired*, he clearly can coach as he wins with typically less talent than his opponents, and he has a vision for what the style of play can be at least. (honestly he may turn the job down as he could be a UST lifer).

Other than him as an example: get a coach with at least a resume of success as a head coach at some point in his career (look at Mississippi State - they hired a proven winner from Mexico State, the guy is from Iowa...he has turned that program around in a year)

Ok, I will use all my influence……

 

[Holy Man]

Today's rotations were mind boggling. I like TT, but he gets buried on the bench and then is brought in for the last 10 minutes in a very close game. If you find he adds that much value, why is he not playing the rest of the game? Payne and JOJ were killing it in the 1st half every time they touched it in the paint, and in the second half did they get more than like 2 combined paint touches? I thought the first half was rough but we led by 8 so can't complain. Why did they go away from what worked in the second half? We have stacked up players with length and size, but we only ever seem to occasionally take advantage of mismatches that provides us. A lack of identity is making it more difficult for the players to carve out a role and thrive.

If you are going to experiment this is the time to do it. Bad team. Coming off finals. Not sure if this is strategy or not, but it’s also not against Michigan State.

 

[JimmyJamesMD]

Overstated. They are both slow of foot and so struggling on defense. Cooper was one of the most sought after points in the portal last spring. Samuels is depth and needing to play more than intended. Both are at least getting more comfortable with what we’re doing even if they are a step slow for this level. Play with what you have, but he really needs to hit the portal hard for an outstanding point next season.

understated.

 

[Wet_Blanket_Guy]

I cant believe how awful Cooper and Samuels are. We couldnt get better guard transfers than this?

It is literally shocking. We are a big10 school and could offer a starting PG spot and most likely another 22 minutes plus to another guard …how is there not a line of candidates for that?

Shooting is a plus, but these guys need elite speed / athleticism / quickness, paired with ball handling and vision.

 

[Wet_Blanket_Guy]

Agree completely. I would be shocked if he doesn't get three years minimum. Bad guard play, poor shot selection, and soft defense is a tough combination to overcome. At some point, you hope to see some improvement in these areas even if it doesn't translate to a markedly better win percentage. He doesn't have enough horses yet to compete in the upper tier of the conference. However, the whole doesn't look as good as the sum of the parts right now. That gets to coaching. It hasn't been all that impressive for 12 calendar months.

He doesn’t have enough horses to compete at the bottom of the conference

 

[GopherBlood777]

If you are going to experiment this is the time to do it. Bad team. Coming off finals. Not sure if this is strategy or not, but it’s also not against Michigan State.

I would agree this was the plan if he didn't start Samuels in both halves.

 

[Holy Man]

I would agree this was the plan if he didn't start Samuels in both halves.

Good point. But Samuels also didn’t play down the stretch, either. Whoever said let Cooper get more shots I’m on board with that.

While I’m whining I’m wondering why there isn’t more complaining about Battle forcing shots. I’m noticing a trend. When he takes good shots he makes most of them. When bad shots, misses almost all of them and they are way too many.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

It’s a win and being so torches should be doused. Merry Christmas and anything else a person might celebrate! Se you guys around the 29th. If I didn’t say it already - you guys know 100 times more than me about hoopball and thanks for having me!

 

[Gophs24]

Good point. But Samuels also didn’t play down the stretch, either. Whoever said let Cooper get more shots I’m on board with that.

While I’m whining I’m wondering why there isn’t more complaining about Battle forcing shots. I’m noticing a trend. When he takes good shots he makes most of them. When bad shots, misses almost all of them and they are way too many.

Battle forced a lot of shots last year as well....we just never looked at them as forces cause he seemed to make way more than he has this year. but you are right he sure is forcing things.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Battle forced a lot of shots last year as well....we just never looked at them as forces cause he seemed to make way more than he has this year. but you are right he sure is forcing things.

Our spacing was so much better last year that the majority of these looks were much better shots. He was also playing the 4 (which he should be now), so that builds in another small layer of space.

This is a really awkward roster that almost forces our best players to play out of position. It would have only been more awkward if Fox and Ihnen were healthy.

I don't know if it's scarier that we swung and missed on so many guards that this is what we're left with or alternatively this roster construction was by design,

 

[bga1]

Our spacing was so much better last year that the majority of these looks were much better shots. He was also playing the 4 (which he should be now), so that builds in another small layer of space.

This is a really awkward roster that almost forces our best players to play out of position. It would have only been more awkward if Fox and Ihnen were healthy.

I don't know if it's scarier that we swung and missed on so many guards that this is what we're left with or alternatively this roster construction was by design,

It is crazy when you think of how many players that were stacked up as ideally guys that would play some or a lot at the 4 spot: Ihnen, Fox, Garcia, Thompson, Ola Joseph and Battle.
At the 5 - Payne
At the 3 you have Ramberg, Henley and perhaps Carrington
At the 2 you have Cooper
At the PG - Samuels

I have to believe he just fanned on a bunch of guards. No way that this could have been the design.
Could it?

 

[justthefacts]

To Chicago State's credit, they have been a horrendous team historically but have a new coach this year that has done some solid 'crootin. They start two former 4 stars. Elijah Weaver was #45, coming out of high school in 2018. Cardet Jr. was #78 in the class of 2021. That tandem kept them in the game, and they scored 60% of their points.

That said, there is no excuse for how we played today. These are supposed to be confidence builders before the big ten gauntlet starts. After this game, I am more confused about the team's identity and how we will compete against better competition.

Ben needs to shake it up with the PG play. I don't know the answer, but Cooper isn't it. Even if he averages seven assists per game, he can't consistently initiate the offense and cannot stay in front of his defensive assignment. It honestly looks like he's hurt or nursing something. Sprinting looks painful. Maybe there's more to the story?

Assuming Cooper isn't hurt, I'd rather see Henley get more minutes as the primary ball handler. While he's been horrendous this year, he has the quickness and a handle to develop. It would be ugly and beyond frustrating. I can't deny the floor of poor play would be much lower with Henley logging PG minutes.

However, I've seen the team's ceiling with Cooper playing 40 minutes, which is equally depressing. I'd go young and let Cooper bomb threes (he's 50%+ on the season) in an off-guard role and save some energy for defensive possessions. There's nothing to lose.

Congrats to Chicago State on the 'crootin

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

It is crazy when you think of how many players that were stacked up as ideally guys that would play some or a lot at the 4 spot: Ihnen, Fox, Garcia, Thompson, Ola Joseph and Battle.
At the 5 - Payne
At the 3 you have Ramberg, Henley and perhaps Carrington
At the 2 you have Cooper
At the PG - Samuels

I have to believe he just fanned on a bunch of guards. No way that this could have been the design.
Could it?

I really hope not. I thought it was pure coach speak when Ben said Ihnen would play the 2 for us, but if that was his plan it's frightening.

 

[Gopher Teeth]

Today's rotations were mind boggling. I like TT, but he gets buried on the bench and then is brought in for the last 10 minutes in a very close game. If you find he adds that much value, why is he not playing the rest of the game? Payne and JOJ were killing it in the 1st half every time they touched it in the paint, and in the second half did they get more than like 2 combined paint touches? I thought the first half was rough but we led by 8 so can't complain. Why did they go away from what worked in the second half? We have stacked up players with length and size, but we only ever seem to occasionally take advantage of mismatches that provides us. A lack of identity is making it more difficult for the players to carve out a role and thrive.

Chicago State was playing a 5 guard line-up, why you wouldn't keep going inside is baffling to me.

 

[topos]

Congrats to Chicago State on the 'crootin

For having the name "justthefacts," I'd expect you to appreciate an objective fact about the Chicago State roster.

How do you feel about the other 90% of my post where I criticize the Gopher's performance and offer some solutions?

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Our spacing was so much better last year that the majority of these looks were much better shots. He was also playing the 4 (which he should be now), so that builds in another small layer of space.

This is a really awkward roster that almost forces our best players to play out of position. It would have only been more awkward if Fox and Ihnen were healthy.

I don't know if it's scarier that we swung and missed on so many guards that this is what we're left with or alternatively this roster construction was by design,

This really isn't true. @leib0039 posted this in February last year. At that point we were one of the worst teams in the country in shot selection, ranking at 354, we just made a shockingly large number of them. This type of offense wasn't sustainable, and now you're seeing the results of what has been a poor offense all along.

 

[Johnnyboy18]

This really isn't true. @leib0039 posted this in February last year. At that point we were one of the worst teams in the country in shot selection, ranking at 354, we just made a shockingly large number of them. This type of offense wasn't sustainable, and now you're seeing the results of what has been a poor offense all along.

They're 150 spots better currently in whatever weird methodology this uses.

 

[Holy Man]

Our spacing was so much better last year that the majority of these looks were much better shots. He was also playing the 4 (which he should be now), so that builds in another small layer of space.

This is a really awkward roster that almost forces our best players to play out of position. It would have only been more awkward if Fox and Ihnen were healthy.

I don't know if it's scarier that we swung and missed on so many guards that this is what we're left with or alternatively this roster construction was by design,

Positionless basketball?

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

Ben seems to want to get Garcia some low post looks which is working out OK. But why not Battle? He is much stronger and handles the ball well. Can't he play with his back to the basket? Even some high post looks for Battle similar to what JOJ gets. Plus he would likely to the to FT line more often where he does well.

We all want to see Battle get back to his "game" and he needs more time but I always thought he had potential for a decent post game. But we don't see it or even any attempts.

Thoughts???

 

[GopherBlood777]

Ben seems to want to get Garcia some low post looks which is working out OK. But why not Battle? He is much stronger and handles the ball well. Can't he play with his back to the basket? Even some high post looks for Battle similar to what JOJ gets. Plus he would likely to the to FT line more often where he does well.

We all want to see Battle get back to his "game" and he needs more time but I always thought he had potential for a decent post game. But we don't see it or even any attempts.

Thoughts???

I wouldn't mind seeing him post up so he can attempt some face up and turn around jumpers at close range. I do not want him dribbling more than necessary. Maybe he was still recovering from injury in earlier games, but there seemed to be a point where he was falling over half the time he tried putting it on the floor. I see him as having more of a Wally Szczerbiak type game. Which is great anyway since Wally was an incredible college player.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Positionless basketball?

Positionless basketball is when you have a number of people who can do a lot of different things. It isn't when you have a bunch of people who are equally unskilled.

You can play positionless basketball when your 4 can dribble, drive and shoot (1-4 can all do this). It is not positionless basketball just because your SG is just as bad of a shooter/ball handler as your 4.