Ben Johnson is a Disaster

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Battle’s overall shooting is down, but 3pt % is quite steady compared to past years.

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Johnnyboy18 said:
I don't mind analytics. Just pointing out the methology used has them ranked better this year with a clearly worse offense.

I prefer to watch games played on the basketball court. Please forgive me.
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Yep, our B1G record will impress or disappointment me much more than where we land on some guy's spreadsheet.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
I don't mind analytics. Just pointing out the methology used has them ranked better this year with a clearly worse offense.

I prefer to watch games played on the basketball court. Please forgive me.
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It still puts them 90 spots lower than the next closest B1G team. So not only is their offense creating the worst shots in the B1G, as it was last season, they are making far fewer of them this season.

I'll agree that I prefer to watch games played on the court as well, but analytics tell you a lot in between.
 
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GopherWeatherGuy said:
It still puts them 90 spots lower than the next closest B1G team. So not only is their offense creating the worst shots in the B1G, as it was last season, they are making far fewer of them this season.

I'll agree that I prefer to watch games played on the court as well, but analytics tell you a lot in between.
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You need to just relax, trust the process, and give it 4 or 5 more years.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
It is literally shocking. We are a big10 school and could offer a starting PG spot and most likely another 22 minutes plus to another guard …how is there not a line of candidates for that?

Shooting is a plus, but these guys need elite speed / athleticism / quickness, paired with ball handling and vision.
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Almost every one of these cupcake teams has better guards. The level of ineptitude in not getting anyone better than Samuels for one spot and leaving another empty is unbelievable. Cooper was at least decently regarded and is just playing like crap.
 

howeda7 said:
Almost every one of these cupcake teams has better guards. The level of ineptitude in not getting anyone better than Samuels for one spot and leaving another empty is unbelievable. Cooper was at least decently regarded and is just playing like crap.
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I agree with this take but with as bad as Cooper has been, without him we might only have a win or two.
 

Ben will almost certainly get year 3, but if 0-20 happens, it at least becomes a discussion after this season. Some things you don't come back from.
 



howeda7 said:
Ben will almost certainly get year 3, but if 0-20 happens, it at least becomes a discussion after this season. Some things you don't come back from.
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I agree with you. How many conference wins do you think they will have ultimately this year?
 

howeda7 said:
Almost every one of these cupcake teams has better guards. The level of ineptitude in not getting anyone better than Samuels for one spot and leaving another empty is unbelievable. Cooper was at least decently regarded and is just playing like crap.
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While I some what agree with you, I have an honest question. What others were available in the portal? You speak of these other teams we played having better guards, were any of those teams guard’s in the portal? If not then they aren’t available. I heard Cooper was one of the top rated, so who else was available?
 

Outsider said:
While I some what agree with you, I have an honest question. What others were available in the portal? You speak of these other teams we played having better guards, were any of those teams guard’s in the portal? If not then they aren’t available. I heard Cooper was one of the top rated, so who else was available?
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Both of the ones that led Chicago State in scoring yesterday were transfers. There were a lot of options. Copper was decently rated but that's why you don't leave spots unfilled.
 

howeda7 said:
Both of the ones that led Chicago State in scoring yesterday were transfers. There were a lot of options. Copper was decently rated but that's why you don't leave spots unfilled.
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The portal is fickle. A lot of guys are looking to be number one. Once Cooper committed, a number of guys dropped off. The empty scholarship is the biggest issue but it could also be about fit in the culture and locker room. I’m not sure it’s automatic that you give a scholarship just to fill a hole. With little chance of winning getting someone to commit to role player is difficult. The incoming class could be a draw to portal guards next year.
 



Ben made a decision to put the hands of the 2 guard spot in two 3 star freshman hands. I believe there was talks of players like Parker Stewart, Cam Spencer, and Josiah Strong coming in. I have no clue of knowing if he passed on them or visa-versa. The team would be at least a decent amount better with one of those players IMO.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Ben made a decision to put the hands of the 2 guard spot in two 3 star freshman hands. I believe there was talks of players like Parker Stewart, Cam Spencer, and Josiah Strong coming in. I have no clue of knowing if he passed on them or visa-versa. The team would be at least a decent amount better with one of those players IMO.
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Agreed 100%. We all knew he needed a guard. He probably did too. None of us know why it didn’t work.
 

howeda7 said:
Almost every one of these cupcake teams has better guards. The level of ineptitude in not getting anyone better than Samuels for one spot and leaving another empty is unbelievable. Cooper was at least decently regarded and is just playing like crap.
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Cooper can be useful, if utilized correctly. Great 3pt shooter...but his complete disregard for humanity when it comes for Free Throw shooting should mean he can't be trusted at the end of games - teams would just put him on the line + do I need to talk about defense / lack of quickness.

Hid ideal fit is almost as a small ball SF and gets tons of shots up, all while not having to guard the other teams quickest guys....this doesn't work with our current roster construction.

Then without Cooper handling the ball...that leaves (current options)...Samuels (not a true B10 caliber player...especially a starter) and Carrington (not a PG - he is a SG).

Digging deeper on Samuels:
*in 2021-22 *a year in which Dartmouth placed 5th in the 8 team Ivy League (behind Princeton, Yale, Penn, Cornell) and ahead of Harvard, Brown, & Columbia - their only non-conference games appear to have been:
-Dartmouth 55 @ CSU Bakersfield 61
-Dartmouth 55 @ Cal 61
-Dartmouth 78 @ Stanford 89 (OT)
- Boston U 65 @ Dartmouth 62
- Quinnipiac 72 @ Dartmouth 69
-Dartmouth 68 @ Florida Golf Coast University (OT)
- Dartmouth 65 @ Vermont 83
-Dartmouth 63 @ Bryant 61 (OT)
-Dartmouth 69 @ Georgetown (60) *Georgetown has fallen off the map*
-Boston College 73 @ Dartmouth 57

Here are the stats of those games: (season averages next to it for comparison)
* 2pt FG % 38% --> 41.58%
* 3PT FG % 24% --> 31.25%
* REB P/G 2.9 --> 2.1
* Points per game 10.3 --> 9.4
* Assists per game 1.9 --> 1.73
* TO per game 1.3 --> .83
* A/T ratio 1.46 --> 2.11
* Steals per game .7 --> .65

I don't know how one can look at these numbers against (when they are a middle of the pack IVY League school) and they lost to almost every non-IVY league school with the exception of Georgetown (who is having their own Minnesota Golden Gopher moment) and say, I want you to contribute to our Big10 team and we need you to get real minutes at the PG position...
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Cooper can be useful, if utilized correctly. Great 3pt shooter...but his complete disregard for humanity when it comes for Free Throw shooting should mean he can't be trusted at the end of games - teams would just put him on the line + do I need to talk about defense / lack of quickness.

Hid ideal fit is almost as a small ball SF and gets tons of shots up, all while not having to guard the other teams quickest guys....this doesn't work with our current roster construction.

Then without Cooper handling the ball...that leaves (current options)...Samuels (not a true B10 caliber player...especially a starter) and Carrington (not a PG - he is a SG).

Digging deeper on Samuels:
*in 2021-22 *a year in which Dartmouth placed 5th in the 8 team Ivy League (behind Princeton, Yale, Penn, Cornell) and ahead of Harvard, Brown, & Columbia - their only non-conference games appear to have been:
-Dartmouth 55 @ CSU Bakersfield 61
-Dartmouth 55 @ Cal 61
-Dartmouth 78 @ Stanford 89 (OT)
- Boston U 65 @ Dartmouth 62
- Quinnipiac 72 @ Dartmouth 69
-Dartmouth 68 @ Florida Golf Coast University (OT)
- Dartmouth 65 @ Vermont 83
-Dartmouth 63 @ Bryant 61 (OT)
-Dartmouth 69 @ Georgetown (60) *Georgetown has fallen off the map*
-Boston College 73 @ Dartmouth 57

Here are the stats of those games: (season averages next to it for comparison)
* 2pt FG % 38% --> 41.58%
* 3PT FG % 24% --> 31.25%
* REB P/G 2.9 --> 2.1
* Points per game 10.3 --> 9.4
* Assists per game 1.9 --> 1.73
* TO per game 1.3 --> .83
* A/T ratio 1.46 --> 2.11
* Steals per game .7 --> .65

I don't know how one can look at these numbers against (when they are a middle of the pack IVY League school) and they lost to almost every non-IVY league school with the exception of Georgetown (who is having their own Minnesota Golden Gopher moment) and say, I want you to contribute to our Big10 team and we need you to get real minutes at the PG position...
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He hit pretty well with Loewe and Stephens and obviously Willis which makes the whiffs this year hard to understand.
 

howeda7 said:
He hit pretty well with Loewe and Stephens and obviously Willis which makes the whiffs this year hard to understand.
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I was pretty happy with the minutes Sutherlin gave us as well. Tough player who was able to get in the paint when he needed.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Ben made a decision to put the hands of the 2 guard spot in two 3 star freshman hands. I believe there was talks of players like Parker Stewart, Cam Spencer, and Josiah Strong coming in. I have no clue of knowing if he passed on them or visa-versa. The team would be at least a decent amount better with one of those players IMO.
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I was really hoping for Spencer this offseason. He would be an upgrade, at this point, over Samuels and Carrington.
 


Holy Man said:
The portal is fickle. A lot of guys are looking to be number one. Once Cooper committed, a number of guys dropped off. The empty scholarship is the biggest issue but it could also be about fit in the culture and locker room. I’m not sure it’s automatic that you give a scholarship just to fill a hole. With little chance of winning getting someone to commit to role player is difficult. The incoming class could be a draw to portal guards next year.
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That’s a fair assessment for last year. Year 4 is a long time to wait to recruit a freshman true point guard though
 

bc2211 said:
That’s a fair assessment for last year. Year 4 is a long time to wait to recruit a freshman true point guard though
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I hate to put make or break scenarios out, but we almost have to think upgrading the quickness and defense of guards is make or break for next season. Portal push has to be on, and team needs to show enough promise to convince an elite guard or two to take a chance on being the difference in taking a team to the tournament. The rest of the roster could be in recognizable by the fall of 24.
 

Cooper is possibly the worst PG defender in the history of Big Ten basketball. The average lunchtime YMCA player could drive past him at will. This team needs to play zone the rest of the year even though Ben doesn’t want to.
 

John Galt said:
Cooper is possibly the worst PG defender in the history of Big Ten basketball. The average lunchtime YMCA player could drive past him at will. This team needs to play zone the rest of the year even though Ben doesn’t want to.
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Nothing like a little hyperbole to get us ready for the season.
 

OK I'm not on the fence anymore. Ben Johnson should build his team through the 2024-25 season.

The team needs above average play from the point guard position that is pulling the team down.

Next season an elite center is coming in and a very good shooting guard. The team is set at forward.

Stick it out. Be patient.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
You need to just relax, trust the process, and give it 4 or 5 more years.
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Ben's first recruits are freshmen. And he has better recruits on the way.

I 100% guarantee you same guys would all be calling for Haskins' firing during his 2-16 & 4-14 conference seasons with freshmen & sophomores.

You guys say times are different...but no, ripping the coaches never changes. Fans (and others) get all riled-up and throw temper-tantrums game by game...that never changes.
 

howeda7 said:
Ben will almost certainly get year 3, but if 0-20 happens, it at least becomes a discussion after this season. Some things you don't come back from.
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Clem had a 17-game conference losing streak.
 

I'll start getting concerned if the freshmen don't show improvement toward the end of the season.

No, I'm not calling for blindly trusting the process for years. We can follow the freshmen and the recruiting.
 


Holy Man said:
I hate to put make or break scenarios out, but we almost have to think upgrading the quickness and defense of guards is make or break for next season. Portal push has to be on, and team needs to show enough promise to convince an elite guard or two to take a chance on being the difference in taking a team to the tournament. The rest of the roster could be in recognizable by the fall of 24.
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Yeah, the roster is construction forecast is unsettling right now. A lot of potential for the next few years, to be sure, but still huge gaps. And this comes after years of talent under Pitino spoiled by fatal roster flaws/ enormous positional gaps.
 

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